This team seems to have a culture problem.

[SilentHill]

I, along with everyone else (I'm sure) are sick and tired of seeing this team come out flat, and intentionally try to be a team that that are not. Originally I thought it was Pep, not making offensive game plans that played to our strengths, but it all seems like too much of a coincidence that Chud is having the same problems. We are not a smash mouth football team, we don't have the personnel for it, and we will not have the personnel for a LONG time with Grigson drafting. Part of me thinks that the coaches show the 2013 game footage against SF every week, saying this is who we want to be.

 

You look at other teams in the NFL, and they are going out there and mixing things up, and playing to the strengths of their team, and even winning tough games with backup players, but we continually fail to look prepared, and continually execute the wrong game plan, while falling behind early, only for that light bulb moment going off when it's almost too late.

 

I think the entire organization of coaches and front office that surround this football team are much too soft. I feel like no one is held accountable for their mistakes, and it's one of those "we'll get em next week X Player, don't worry about it, just focus on the next one" I always go back to it, that when Reggie signed with the Patriots he left shortly thereafter because he wasn't having "fun" and it was too much like a business. That has always stood out to me as a HUGE red flag. I liken this to the SF 49ers pre and post Harbaugh, that is what a winning culture and a good coach can do, that team missed the playoffs 8 years in a row, Harbaugh came in, they were 6-10 in the previous season (Where the Colts are headed) the next season they went 13-3 and went to the conference championship team. next year 11-4-1 and Superbowl, Next year 12-4 and NFL title game, The next season they went 8-8 and I believe it was really the GM who messed up here, having a Grigson like run in FA, and an exposed QB. and they have fallen into the abyss without him ever since.The moral of the story, is that some teams bring in those guys with that winning culture, something the Colts could use a little bit of.

[Malakai432]

Yeah I agree, other teams have to salivate at the thought of game preparation/planning when they face the Colts because they have done the exact same thing every game for ages now.  It's worse than it ever has been during Paganos reign, literally every game now there is a high probability the Colts are going to spot the other team a 14pt+.  All you keep hearing from him is that everyone needs to do better, well duh.......  He doesn't have the capability to change anything.  Albeit Grigson didn't help at all.  

 

I'm not sure also how or to what extent this team may restrain Luck from his full capability.  Miraculously when this team HAS to score they can get back in these games but it makes it very difficult to win.  

[Knuckles79]

I wish they would just come out first possession and play with a fast pace.Not necessarily no huddle but just with a since of urgency.  

[21isSuperman]

The culture problem starts at the top with Irsay accepting the mediocrity that is Grigson and Pagano.  It is then made worse by an incompetent GM who is reportedly very arrogant and likes to butt in where he shouldn't.  It's then made even worse by a head coach who seems to be far too rah-rah/buddy-buddy/ever-optimistic.  So take a bad head coach, give him a bad roster, then give the bad head coach and the guy who assembled the bad roster contract extensions by the owner and you have a culture problem

[Jules]

I gave it a like since I like you as a poster and it was a well written Colts rant essay.

[WoolMagnet]

"This team needs an enema!"

(in Jack Nicholson voice)

[Mr.Debonair]

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

The culture problem starts at the top with Irsay accepting the mediocrity that is Grigson and Pagano.  It is then made worse by an incompetent GM who is reportedly very arrogant and likes to butt in where he shouldn't.  It's then made even worse by a head coach who seems to be far too rah-rah/buddy-buddy/ever-optimistic.  So take a bad head coach, give him a bad roster, then give the bad head coach and the guy who assembled the bad roster contract extensions by the owner and you have a culture problem

BOOM

[Superman]

Good heavens...

[Superman]

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

The culture problem starts at the top with Irsay accepting the mediocrity that is Grigson and Pagano.  It is then made worse by an incompetent GM who is reportedly very arrogant and likes to butt in where he shouldn't.  It's then made even worse by a head coach who seems to be far too rah-rah/buddy-buddy/ever-optimistic.  So take a bad head coach, give him a bad roster, then give the bad head coach and the guy who assembled the bad roster contract extensions by the owner and you have a culture problem

 

This is nonsense.

 

1) Who would you have replaced Grigson with in 2016?

2) Take Grigson's name off of the Colts offseason, and grade it. Now tell me it reflects incompetence. You really can't.

3) The bolded is not based in fact, at all, and has pretty much been soundly refuted.

 

It's amazing to me how little it takes for a fanbase to turn on EVERYONE when things aren't going well.

[CanuckColtsFan]

The team has a wining culture. Especially under Irsay. The most wins in a decade. I'm willing to concede now, the team lacks talent and coaching can be called into question. It's sucks, we had some good years with Luck. I thought we did well last year considering we lost our QB. I figured Luck would come back healthy and go back to winning. This is really terrible play but I don't think it's a culture issue 

[21isSuperman]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is nonsense.

 

1) Who would you have replaced Grigson with in 2016?

2) Take Grigson's name off of the Colts offseason, and grade it. Now tell me it reflects incompetence. You really can't.

3) The bolded is not based in fact, at all, and has pretty much been soundly refuted.

 

It's amazing to me how little it takes for a fanbase to turn on EVERYONE when things aren't going well.

Respectfully, in response...

 

1) I didn't do as much research on GM candidates since I don't make those decisions.  Given the little research I've done, I like Nick Caserio.  With that said, just because I don't know of the candidates, doesn't mean keeping/extending Grigson was the right idea

2) Sure, he did have a good 2016 offseason.  In general, I liked the draft.  The problem is that's one offseason.  He's been at the helm for more than one offseason.  What about the 2013 and 2014 drafts, when he went a combined 2/12?  What about the 2013 free agent class?  What about using first round picks on Werner and Richardson?  I'm not saying every move Grigson has made has been bad, but his history doesn't give me any confidence that he can build a winning team.

3) Well, I did say "reportedly".  I'm not presenting some inside scoop or anything.  Those were the reports, and the reports were rampant.  While it's possible they were all false, I tend to approach this with the idea of "where there's smoke, there's fire". 

 

With respect to your last line, I submit to you that this isn't little.  This team hasn't had much of a defense for years.  Luck has continued to be one of the most hit QBs in the league.  At a time when the Colts should be fighting for AFC supremacy, thanks to our generational talent at QB being in his prime, we're fighting to keep ourselves out of the basement of the AFC South.

[21isSuperman]

18 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

The team has a wining culture. Especially under Irsay. The most wins in a decade. I'm willing to concede now, the team lacks talent and coaching can be called into question. It's sucks, we had some good years with Luck. I thought we did well last year considering we lost our QB. I figured Luck would come back healthy and go back to winning. This is really terrible play but I don't think it's a culture issue 

This is part of the problem, in my opinion.  Though it has nothing to do with the current regime.  There was so much celebration made over this record, and it is an impressive feat, but does it really mean much when you win just 1 Super Bowl?  A franchise that has the most wins in a 10 year span but only one championship in that same span screams to me that they're underachieved.  When a franchise celebrates for that kind of underachievement, I perceive that as being a culture problem

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

1) I didn't do as much research on GM candidates since I don't make those decisions.  Given the little research I've done, I like Nick Caserio.  With that said, just because I don't know of the candidates, doesn't mean keeping/extending Grigson was the right idea

2) Sure, he did have a good 2016 offseason.  In general, I liked the draft.  The problem is that's one offseason.  He's been at the helm for more than one offseason.  What about the 2013 and 2014 drafts, when he went a combined 2/12?  What about the 2013 free agent class?  What about using first round picks on Werner and Richardson?  I'm not saying every move Grigson has made has been bad, but his history doesn't give me any confidence that he can build a winning team.

 

The point is, name someone who would have been better, and would have done a better job this offseason. Or is it just 'we're all sick of Grigson, he needs to go,' followed by the emotionally gratifying but factually deficient 'it's not like we could do any worse...' ?

 

I'm not absolving Grigson of guilt related to past poor offseasons, I'm just saying it's water under the bridge. I believe the Colts tried to shortcut their way to a SB from 2013-2015, and Irsay gave the directive to get back to basics and do it the right way. That means you're not going to go from having a mediocre roster to having a great roster in one year. But the steps along the way need to be the right steps. We'll be better able to judge 2016 as time passes, but right now, it looks like the right steps. Draft-wise, at least.

 

Also, I think it's a mistake to hire any Belichick assistants. Josh McDaniels is looking pretty attractive right now, and a read an interesting article on him a few days ago, but still, pretty much every Belichick assistant has crashed and burned once they leave the nest. Why should Nick Caserio be any different?

 

Quote

3) Well, I did say "reportedly".  I'm not presenting some inside scoop or anything.  Those were the reports, and the reports were rampant.  While it's possible they were all false, I tend to approach this with the idea of "where there's smoke, there's fire". 

 

It's been debunked. The story was Pep was Grigson's hire, and Pagano didn't want him but couldn't get rid of him because Grigson wouldn't let him. All the supporting evidence for that was false, including the timeline. Then Irsay pretty much confirmed that it was Pagano who was reluctant to make staff changes. There's NO evidence that Grigson meddled with staffing, lineups, etc. And the same people who shared and promoted these "reports" claimed that Grigson and Pagano hated each other, weren't talking, and would both definitely be fired at the end of the season, yet none of that turned out to be true. It's evident that all that stuff was trumped up.

 

Quote

With respect to your last line, I submit to you that this isn't little.  This team hasn't had much of a defense for years.  Luck has continued to be one of the most hit QBs in the league.  At a time when the Colts should be fighting for AFC supremacy, thanks to our generational talent at QB being in his prime, we're fighting to keep ourselves out of the basement of the AFC South.

 

Again I ask, what kind of turnaround did you really expect in 2016? They hit the reset button, then added foundational pieces on the OL (ironically, it's the vets who have looked shaky). The roster had serious issues, and they can't all be fixed at once, as annoying as that is to fans.

 

Again, not excusing the previous mistakes by this staff, but this is the same staff that got the Colts back in the playoffs quicker than anyone expected. They had what I think was a good offseason, based on staffing and drafting, although it's too early to tell (I'm beefing with Chud right now, though). You could give them the benefit of the doubt, unless you just want to be right about them all being terrible and needing to be fired. I think it's mostly confirmation bias around here right now, no real evaluation.

 

For my part, I'm hoping they make the best of their second chance. I don't support them unconditionally, but I do support them. 

[CanuckColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

This is part of the problem, in my opinion.  Though it has nothing to do with the current regime.  There was so much celebration made over this record, and it is an impressive feat, but does it really mean much when you win just 1 Super Bowl?  A franchise that has the most wins in a 10 year span but only one championship in that same span screams to me that they're underachieved.  When a franchise celebrates for that kind of underachievement, I perceive that as being a culture problem

I suppose you can see it that way. Good and great are two very different teams, But I think there is an overemphasis on winning the super bowl. So much so, you use the word championship and completely gloss over the fact that the franchise has won many AFC South and AFC championships in a short time. The BIG game is big but, it's one game a year. It's very nice to win one. Going into the off season is way easier when the good guys win.

 

Even the Olympics reward and recognize second and third and celebrate personal bests. A great team puts up wins consistently, that is a winning culture. Don't give me the they don't win when it matters because they all matter. The superbowl isn't always the best team vs best team. I think about some of those regular season games that had me going nuts. I don't think the super bowl the Colts won was the most exciting game I've ever watched. In fact I would say there was a lot of relief, that they finally won. 

 

Football is at its heart entertainment. I'm not terribly entertained with this years performance for sure. I'm not going to flush a proud franchise down the toiliet either.

[21isSuperman]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The point is, name someone who would have been better, and would have done a better job this offseason. Or is it just 'we're all sick of Grigson, he needs to go,' followed by the emotionally gratifying but factually deficient 'it's not like we could do any worse...' ?

 

I'm not absolving Grigson of guilt related to past poor offseasons, I'm just saying it's water under the bridge. I believe the Colts tried to shortcut their way to a SB from 2013-2015, and Irsay gave the directive to get back to basics and do it the right way. That means you're not going to go from having a mediocre roster to having a great roster in one year. But the steps along the way need to be the right steps. We'll be better able to judge 2016 as time passes, but right now, it looks like the right steps. Draft-wise, at least.

 

Also, I think it's a mistake to hire any Belichick assistants. Josh McDaniels is looking pretty attractive right now, and a read an interesting article on him a few days ago, but still, pretty much every Belichick assistant has crashed and burned once they leave the nest. Why should Nick Caserio be any different?

 

 

It's been debunked. The story was Pep was Grigson's hire, and Pagano didn't want him but couldn't get rid of him because Grigson wouldn't let him. All the supporting evidence for that was false, including the timeline. Then Irsay pretty much confirmed that it was Pagano who was reluctant to make staff changes. There's NO evidence that Grigson meddled with staffing, lineups, etc. And the same people who shared and promoted these "reports" claimed that Grigson and Pagano hated each other, weren't talking, and would both definitely be fired at the end of the season, yet none of that turned out to be true. It's evident that all that stuff was trumped up.

 

 

Again I ask, what kind of turnaround did you really expect in 2016? They hit the reset button, then added foundational pieces on the OL (ironically, it's the vets who have looked shaky). The roster had serious issues, and they can't all be fixed at once, as annoying as that is to fans.

 

Again, not excusing the previous mistakes by this staff, but this is the same staff that got the Colts back in the playoffs quicker than anyone expected. They had what I think was a good offseason, based on staffing and drafting, although it's too early to tell (I'm beefing with Chud right now, though). You could give them the benefit of the doubt, unless you just want to be right about them all being terrible and needing to be fired. I think it's mostly confirmation bias around here right now, no real evaluation.

 

For my part, I'm hoping they make the best of their second chance. I don't support them unconditionally, but I do support them. 

As you mentioned, the Colts/Grigson tried to shortcut their way to a championship in previous years.  Those mistakes are haunting us now.  We're 5 years into Luck's career, possibly 1/3rd of his career, and into what should be his prime.  Instead of watching this team compete as an annual contender, we're at the bottom of the AFC South.  The question isn't are they doing well with their second chance, but rather do/did they even deserve a second chance.  It's year 1 of this second chance; year 1 of the first chance had a pretty good offseason to it too.  With Luck in the prime of his career, and with that huge contract he just got, I don't think we can afford to go through a patient reloading process.  We need to be winning and we need to be doing it now.  At this rate, Luck could be close to 30 before the Colts begin competing as an annual threat again.

 

Regarding Belichick disciples, I agree.  One has to be very careful when hiring from the Pats since almost everyone else from there has crashed and burned on their own.  I liked Matt Patricia for head coach and Nick Caserio for GM, but there would have to be a lot of homework and research done before hiring anyone from the Pats.  McDaniels is interesting right now though.  Ever since the Pats/Seahawks Super Bowl, I've been impressed by his ability to adjust his gameplan to the defense.  I really think he could do some great things with Luck, but I don't know if I want him as a head coach given how things went for him in Denver.

[21isSuperman]

1 minute ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

I suppose you can see it that way. Good and great are two very different teams, But I think there is an overemphasis on winning the super bowl. So much so, you use the word championship and completely gloss over the fact that the franchise has won many AFC South and AFC championships in a short time. The BIG game is big but, it's one game a year. It's very nice to win one. Going into the off season is way easier when the good guys win.

 

Even the Olympics reward and recognize second and third and celebrate personal bests. A great team puts up wins consistently, that is a winning culture. Don't give me the they don't win when it matters because they all matter. The superbowl isn't always the best team vs best team. I think about some of those regular season games that had me going nuts. I don't think the super bowl the Colts won was the most exciting game I've ever watched. In fact I would say there was a lot of relief, that they finally won. 

 

Football is at its heart entertainment. I'm not terribly entertained with this years performance for sure. I'm not going to flush a proud franchise down the toiliet either.

Winning the Super Bowl is the only reason why they play the game.  No one cares who came in second or third in the NFL.  There's no silver or bronze in the NFL.  There is one championship for one team out of 32.  That's the ultimate goal.  I don't think one can overemphasize winning the Super Bowl.  It's literally the best a team can achieve in one season.  The "America's Game" documentary is about the Super Bowl champion.  The 2007 Pats went 16-0, but didn't win the Super Bowl.  The 2006 Colts went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl.  Which would you rather do?  Divisional and conference championships are fine, but Super Bowls are what we're aiming for.  If a player, coach, scout, GM, whatever doesn't care about winning a Super Bowl, I think they need to find a new profession.

[krunk]

As much as I love this team I can't be real optimistic we are going anywhere with this really poor pass rush.  It's more poor than I think I've ever seen it in all my years of watching Colts football(maybe some of the early Dungy years directly after Mora are close).  I mean quarterbacks are sitting back there all day long.  The blitz is not getting home even with better coverage, and our tackling is not consistent either.  Combine that with this consistent habit of our offense gifting a minimum of 7 free points to the opposition almost every single game except one and it's a formula for disaster. I just have no clue why it never stops.  Then we have an explosive offense that is consistently always sleeping in the first half and always comes out the second half on fire.  I don't know how much of all these things I listed can be fixed this year and the answers are sure not obvious.   This loss dampened my entire day today!

[ReMeDy]

4 hours ago, SilentHill said:

I think the entire organization of coaches and front office that surround this football team are much too soft...  I always go back to it, that when Reggie signed with the Patriots he left shortly thereafter because he wasn't having "fun" and it was too much like a business. That has always stood out to me as a HUGE red flag.

 

WHOA now, that's some dangerous thinking! You could get lynched for saying that.

I think the community can agree we're better off sticking with what we're doing and hope it all works itself out for another year or two... or three?...

 

No, I still say what we need is a tough head coach with a fiery attitude who pushes the team. And we wonder why we played better with Bruce Arians!

[krunk]

I have a major problem with the coaches all the way down to the players spending the whole week saying "We Remember What Happened In The Jags Game Last Year" over and over again and then coming out playing like they didn't remember a damn thing from that game.  If you remember you come out with your hair on fire blood thirsty for revenge executing at a high level, playing with pure confidence that you are the superior team. Instead we come out like we are jet lagged from the plane ride, dropping passes, turning the football over, bad tackling, penalties.  All the things that led you to losing the game last year.  Why has it gotten more common to see a sizeable disconnect from the intended goal and the actual outcome?  It's embarrasing to blow smoke signals all week long to your opponent letting them know you are coming there to take care of business and you play the game miles away from how a champion would have played.   I have to say I'm very concerned with where we are at right now...

[corgi]

The situation in Indy is very similar to the situation at UVa prior to this year. We had a coach that was a fantastic recruiter, and who was beloved by the team. Week after week, year after year the team underachieved and didn't make a bowl. After the disappointment of last year he resigned and Bronco Mendenhal was hired. UVA is currently 2-3, but the culture has changed. The team isn't getting out coached, they show up prepared, they play hard. They are losing games because of a talent deficiency, but there is significant growth every week. The players weren't even allowed to wear the team colors or numbers in practice for months. Everything is earned, nothing is given. Everyone is held accountable.

 

That's what I would like to see with the Colts. If you lose to a team because they are simply better that's fine, but come out prepared and play hard. Pagano may be a wonderful man, but if he doesn't prepare the team and coach the men up then he isn't doing his job. I just want the team to play their best for 60 minutes for 16 games a year. I don't care about Superbowls or Playoffs...just perform and show up. 

[corgi]

19 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Winning the Super Bowl is the only reason why they play the game.  No one cares who came in second or third in the NFL.  There's no silver or bronze in the NFL.  There is one championship for one team out of 32.  That's the ultimate goal.  I don't think one can overemphasize winning the Super Bowl.  It's literally the best a team can achieve in one season.  The "America's Game" documentary is about the Super Bowl champion.  The 2007 Pats went 16-0, but didn't win the Super Bowl.  The 2006 Colts went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl.  Which would you rather do?  Divisional and conference championships are fine, but Super Bowls are what we're aiming for.  If a player, coach, scout, GM, whatever doesn't care about winning a Super Bowl, I think they need to find a new profession.

That's true but they need to care about every game and treat every game like the Super Bowl. Sometimes the team isn't even prepared enough to play a preseason game.

[ReMeDy]

3 minutes ago, corgi said:

Sometimes the team isn't even prepared enough to play a preseason game.

 

True. I'm not saying it's any indication, but we've always been awful in preseason. The lack of urgency attests to this, as our starters come out first, play flat, then of course our backups can't finish.

[corgi]

Just now, ReMeDy said:

 

True. I'm not saying it's any indication, but we've always been awful in preseason. It's kind of a reflection of the personality of our team and who we are that we lack urgency.

I worded it poorly, I meant during the regular season this team wouldn't be ready to beat a preseason team of second and third string players. It's like they watch the Replacements, and Remeber the Titans during the week and say "Yeah, just do what they did and we will be okay!"

[IinD]

The culture problem is always being down early. We can never fully execute a game plan. 

 

Just watch with no expectations honestly, it doesn't hurt that way.

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, krunk said:

I have a major problem with the coaches all the way down to the players spending the whole week saying "We Remember What Happened In The Jags Game Last Year" over and over again and then coming out playing like they didn't remember a damn thing from that game.  If you remember you come out with your hair on fire blood thirsty for revenge executing at a high level, playing with pure confidence that you are the superior team. Instead we come out like we are jet lagged from the plane ride, dropping passes, turning the football over, bad tackling, penalties.  All the things that led you to losing the game last year.  Why has it gotten more common to see a sizeable disconnect from the intended goal and the actual outcome?  It's embarrasing to blow smoke signals all week long to your opponent letting them know you are coming there to take care of business and you play the game miles away from how a champion would have played.   I have to say I'm very concerned with where we are at right now...

I know, pretty bad really! We came out like chumps, dropping passes and committing stupid penalties, etc.. Like I said earlier I cant remember a more disappointing loss in the Luck era than this one today when Luck has been healthy/playing.

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, SilentHill said:

I, along with everyone else (I'm sure) are sick and tired of seeing this team come out flat, and intentionally try to be a team that that are not. Originally I thought it was Pep, not making offensive game plans that played to our strengths, but it all seems like too much of a coincidence that Chud is having the same problems. We are not a smash mouth football team, we don't have the personnel for it, and we will not have the personnel for a LONG time with Grigson drafting. Part of me thinks that the coaches show the 2013 game footage against SF every week, saying this is who we want to be.

 

You look at other teams in the NFL, and they are going out there and mixing things up, and playing to the strengths of their team, and even winning tough games with backup players, but we continually fail to look prepared, and continually execute the wrong game plan, while falling behind early, only for that light bulb moment going off when it's almost too late.

 

I think the entire organization of coaches and front office that surround this football team are much too soft. I feel like no one is held accountable for their mistakes, and it's one of those "we'll get em next week X Player, don't worry about it, just focus on the next one" I always go back to it, that when Reggie signed with the Patriots he left shortly thereafter because he wasn't having "fun" and it was too much like a business. That has always stood out to me as a HUGE red flag. I liken this to the SF 49ers pre and post Harbaugh, that is what a winning culture and a good coach can do, that team missed the playoffs 8 years in a row, Harbaugh came in, they were 6-10 in the previous season (Where the Colts are headed) the next season they went 13-3 and went to the conference championship team. next year 11-4-1 and Superbowl, Next year 12-4 and NFL title game, The next season they went 8-8 and I believe it was really the GM who messed up here, having a Grigson like run in FA, and an exposed QB. and they have fallen into the abyss without him ever since.The moral of the story, is that some teams bring in those guys with that winning culture, something the Colts could use a little bit of.

I agree good post

[#12.]

Culture problem, whatever...  This situation is beyond stale.

 

Four games into this season, if Irsay could redo it, is there any way in hell he would re-sign Grigson and Chuck? 

[OHColtfan]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

 

 

Again I ask, what kind of turnaround did you really expect in 2016? They hit the reset button, then added foundational pieces on the OL (ironically, it's the vets who have looked shaky). The roster had serious issues, and they can't all be fixed at once, as annoying as that is to fans.

 

 

 

... and herein lies the big problem. After years of being at the helm of developing our roster. Going into this season we had "series roster issues".  If Grigson deserves to be around, Why after years of drafting and FA do we not have a serviceable roster with decent OL. How is it we don't have a competitive defense after years of his expertise at building a roster, not to mention a defensive HC. It's not as if we are dealing with new problems each year--- it is the same stupid problems that don't get fixed- OL, pass rush, etc. To me that is the frustration, repeated issues, repeated mistakes, repeated problems that don't get solved by the men who are hired to solve them.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

 The question isn't are they doing well with their second chance, but rather do/did they even deserve a second chance.  

 

With Luck in the prime of his career, and with that huge contract he just got, I don't think we can afford to go through a patient reloading process.  We need to be winning and we need to be doing it now. 

 

At this rate, Luck could be close to 30 before the Colts begin competing as an annual threat again.

 

On mobile so forgive the formatting...

 

1) Your question is immaterial, unless you want to dwell on the past. Irsay kept them. All that matters is if they do a good job now. I think Grigson did okay; Pagano isn't impressing me through four games, and that includes his assistants.

 

2) There's patient, and there's impetuous. I don't think good programs are built on the basis of "we need to be winning now." I think that's what leads to signing 30 year old FAs and trading first rounders for bad RBs.

 

3) I think that's being sensational, since Luck just turned 27. The Colts aren't really that far away, assuming the OL grows up and the coaching performs to standard. While Irsay is not impetuous and doesn't lurch from extreme to extreme, I don't think he'll sit idly by while his team flounders. I think everyone is on notice since January. Just because Pagano got a four year deal doesn't mean he has four years to prove his worth.

[Superman]

19 minutes ago, OHColtfan said:

 

... and herein lies the big problem. After years of being at the helm of developing our roster. Going into this season we had "series roster issues".  If Grigson deserves to be around, Why after years of drafting and FA do we not have a serviceable roster with decent OL. How is it we don't have a competitive defense after years of his expertise at building a roster, not to mention a defensive HC. It's not as if we are dealing with new problems each year--- it is the same stupid problems that don't get fixed- OL, pass rush, etc. To me that is the frustration, repeated issues, repeated mistakes, repeated problems that don't get solved by the men who are hired to solve them.

 

Again, dwelling on the past. Irsay knows that Grigson failed to fix the OL in four years, yet gave him an extension. Grigson spent half of his draft picks on OL. He even drafted a center at #18 after spending the better part of three years saying he doesn't believe you need to spend big resources on a center. What do you think Irsay's directive was? Can you guess?

 

I never suggested Grigson deserved to be around. I was ready for him to go. But the decision was made, and I think we should objectively evaluate what he's done, especially since Irsay decided to give him another go round. Doesn't matter whether he deserved it, he got it. Now what's he going to do with it?

 

So far, the team building strategy has obviously been adjusted, and if you can't see the foundation they're trying to lay, then you're not paying attention. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I cant ever remember a Colts team committing more dumb penalties than we have over the last 2 seasons. That is discipline and Coaching, no other way to sugarcoat it. We had some of the dumbest penalties today with late hits and PI's, etc. that cost us the ball game IMO.

[NewColtsFan]

 

This team doesn't have a culture problem........   Dear God!

 

This team has a talent deficit problem,  and a problem keeping their players healthy.

 

I'm not sure why every arm chair quarterback has to over think this,  but they do......

 

Remember how posters here objected to ESPN and NFL.com and other media outlets saying the Colts don't have a talented roster?      That really bothered people here....

 

Well,  guess what.......     they were right.

 

[GoColts8818]

I think they have a coaching problem which has been well addressed today so I won't repeat the issues there again and a talent problem.  This points back to the total miss of the 2013 draft plus the pretty weak 2014 draft class.  Add to that a lot of misses in free agency those two years and the Colts are being forced to depend in young guys way too much.  For example they started four rookies on offense today plus played another one and then played four rookies on defense today for a large part of the game.  While that will probably pay off down the road if you are counting on nine rookies to be big players on your team it's probably going to be a long year.  

 

That not counting the three second year players who played a major role on defense and another on offense.  This is a young team and a young team tends to be inconsistent.

[RockThatBlue]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I cant ever remember a Colts team committing more dumb penalties than we have over the last 2 seasons. That is discipline and Coaching, no other way to sugarcoat it. We had some of the dumbest penalties today with late hits and PI's, etc. that cost us the ball game IMO.

We shoot ourselves in the foot far too often.

[CanuckColtsFan]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know, pretty bad really! We came out like chumps, dropping passes and committing stupid penalties, etc.. Like I said earlier I cant remember a more disappointing loss in the Luck era than this one today when Luck has been healthy/playing.

We didn't commit the stupid penalties till a little later. At one point penalties were 6 to one in our favour

[CanuckColtsFan]

3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Winning the Super Bowl is the only reason why they play the game.  No one cares who came in second or third in the NFL.  There's no silver or bronze in the NFL.  There is one championship for one team out of 32.  That's the ultimate goal.  I don't think one can overemphasize winning the Super Bowl.  It's literally the best a team can achieve in one season.  The "America's Game" documentary is about the Super Bowl champion.  The 2007 Pats went 16-0, but didn't win the Super Bowl.  The 2006 Colts went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl.  Which would you rather do?  

That Pats team is more remembered than most Super Bowl winners. Of course I'd rather see the Colts as Super Bowl Camps. It doesn't take away from the fact Indy was the winningest team. I'm definitely not going to convince you. I'm into the journey and the destination.  I think there a lot of fans that would agree otherwise 31 teams fans are wasting their time and money every season.

[IinD]

Chuck has to own one definite thing, his team's play sloppy and are extremely undisciplined in terms of penalties. 

 

He's got a long way to go in that dept. I specifically remember the Caldwell to Pagano handoff and Chuck kind of had similar results to Caldwell (took over a disciplined team to begin his tenure)so I'm definitely seeing the dropff each year since the regime change. We were rarely penalized pre 2012. Caldwell gets a pass during PM'injury season. In his years here we at least weren't penalty machines.

 

We're guaranteed 2 a game nowadays.

 

Apologies for long rant.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Winning the Super Bowl is the only reason why they play the game.  No one cares who came in second or third in the NFL.  There's no silver or bronze in the NFL.  There is one championship for one team out of 32.  That's the ultimate goal.  I don't think one can overemphasize winning the Super Bowl.  It's literally the best a team can achieve in one season.  The "America's Game" documentary is about the Super Bowl champion.  The 2007 Pats went 16-0, but didn't win the Super Bowl.  The 2006 Colts went 12-4 and won the Super Bowl.  Which would you rather do?  Divisional and conference championships are fine, but Super Bowls are what we're aiming for.  If a player, coach, scout, GM, whatever doesn't care about winning a Super Bowl, I think they need to find a new profession.

I agree winning the SB is always the main goal but only 1 team each season does it. I still take pride in our Final 4 type seasons and 12 win seasons, etc.. Just making the Conference Title Game is a Great accomplishment like I have stated, that is real difficult in itself. Look at all the Great franchises that have never won a SB = Buffalo 1990-1993, all the years the Eagles had McNabb, and the Chargers with Rivers in the mid 2000's. Those franchises are Great franchises but never captured the Lombardi. At least we got one in 2006.

[stitches]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Again, dwelling on the past. Irsay knows that Grigson failed to fix the OL in four years, yet gave him an extension. Grigson spent half of his draft picks on OL. He even drafted a center at #18 after spending the better part of three years saying he doesn't believe you need to spend big resources on a center. What do you think Irsay's directive was? Can you guess?

 

I never suggested Grigson deserved to be around. I was ready for him to go. But the decision was made, and I think we should objectively evaluate what he's done, especially since Irsay decided to give him another go round. Doesn't matter whether he deserved it, he got it. Now what's he going to do with it?

 

So far, the team building strategy has obviously been adjusted, and if you can't see the foundation they're trying to lay, then you're not paying attention. 

 

Okay, lets forget the dwelling on the past for a moment and answer those two simple questions -

 

1. do you trust Grigson to build up this team again? If yes, what gives you the confidence?

2. do you trust Pagano to coach up the team that Grigson gives him?  If yes, what gives you the confidence?

 

To me the answer to both those questions is a resounding NO. I don't. I see the change of strategy. It's irrefutable. We went from getting old FA vets to focusing on the draft. Simple change of strategy won't make this team great again, though. You need good execution of the strategy and the right decisions. And you need good coaching to solidify the good decision of the GM. What gives you confidence that Grigson and Pagano are the people to do those two very simple yet crucial parts of executing the new strategy? I honestly can't think of a reason why anybody would have any confidence in either of them...

And herein lies the reason why I want both replaced. I just don't trust them and I don't want another year of the rebuild wasted on PROVEN bad decision-makers and PROVEN bad coaching. .

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Okay, lets forget the dwelling on the past for a moment and answer those two simple questions -

 

1. do you trust Grigson to build up this team again? If yes, what gives you the confidence?

2. do you trust Pagano to coach up the team that Grigson gives him?  If yes, what gives you the confidence?

 

To me the answer to both those questions is a resounding NO. I don't. I see the change of strategy. It's irrefutable. We went from getting old FA vets to focusing on the draft. Simple change of strategy won't make this team great again, though. You need good execution of the strategy and the right decisions. And you need good coaching to solidify the good decision of the GM. What gives you confidence that Grigson and Pagano are the people to do those two very simple yet crucial parts of executing the new strategy? I honestly can't think of a reason why anybody would have any confidence in either of them...

And herein lies the reason why I want both replaced. I just don't trust them and I don't want another year of the rebuild wasted on PROVEN bad decision-makers and PROVEN bad coaching. .

After today I cant disagree with what you are saying and I am always about patience and defend Chuck a lot. I don't like the discipline we are showing as a team, way too may too many dumb penalties and too much sloppy play going on! If we cant beat the Jags that is cause to wonder no matter how positive one can be like I am normally.