So what's the barrier.

[Imrryr]

What's the barrier to being that fourth quarter team all game. I must admit I'm losing some faith in Pagano but I also realize he coached the 4th quarter team just as he did the first 3 quarters.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Imrryr said:

What's the barrier to being that fourth quarter team all game. I must admit I'm losing some faith in Pagano but I also realize he coached the 4th quarter team just as he did the first 3 quarters.

They switched to a hurry up offense where luck has more control over his play calls. That was the big difference.  that being said I don't think our team can handle a full game of hurry up, especially with 3 rookies on the line. They will get tired and our protection will get even worse (which is hard to believe is even possible).  

[BProland85]

If there's one thing pagano can do well is motivate a desperate team. That's why they show up more in the 4th. 

 

What Pagano can't do is gameplan before the game begins. As a HC you have to have a gameplan in mind to limit what the opponent does best while also exposing their weaknesses on both sides of the ball. 

[Imrryr]

1 minute ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

They switched to a hurry up offense where luck has more control over his play calls. That was the big difference.  that being said I don't think our team can handle a full game of hurry up, especially with 3 rookies on the line. They will get tired and our protection will get even worse (which is hard to believe is even possible).  

Hmm could they handle maybe 2nd and fourth quarter though? Give em 1st and 3rd as getting back into the groove? Idk I just want the team to be successful lol and obviously we need luck calling plays to do that

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 minutes ago, Imrryr said:

Hmm could they handle maybe 2nd and fourth quarter though? Give em 1st and 3rd as getting back into the groove? Idk I just want the team to be successful lol and obviously we need luck calling plays to do that

I think it is something they should look into at least. plus it would be easier to pull off once we get our starters back on the line, as they "should" be conditioned and used to a full slate of games. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

5 minutes ago, Imrryr said:

Hmm could they handle maybe 2nd and fourth quarter though? Give em 1st and 3rd as getting back into the groove? Idk I just want the team to be successful lol and obviously we need luck calling plays to do that

Honestly I'd be all in for them starting the games in the hurry up.  Get us a good first drive and some points. If we can get an early lead it makes it easier for the team in general. Get up a few scores, then go back to the huddle and run clock until they get close again. Then come back at them with the high tempo again. 

[Malakai432]

12 minutes ago, Imrryr said:

What's the barrier to being that fourth quarter team all game. I must admit I'm losing some faith in Pagano but I also realize he coached the 4th quarter team just as he did the first 3 quarters.

 

You're just now losing some faith in Pagano?  Kudos to keeping optimistic for this long!  It seems like a big part of the problem is they just have continued to do the same stuff for the last 20+ games constantly.  It seems like teams can figure the Colts out easily until the Colts get down and develop a sense of urgency. 

[SkyBane]

The biggest problem is the defense lacks any kind of discipline, and it's getting worse each week. The amount of blown assignments, poor fundamentals, and penalties is appalling. If coaching can't get these guys to focus, they are going to have a hell of a hard time disguising the talent deficiencies there, especially at linebacker.

 

I don't think these coaches can get this defense focused to start games.

[NewColtsFan]

15 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

If there's one thing pagano can do well is motivate a desperate team. That's why they show up more in the 4th. 

 

What Pagano can't do is gameplan before the game begins. As a HC you have to have a gameplan in mind to limit what the opponent does best while also exposing their weaknesses on both sides of the ball. 

 

Pagano has coordinators to game plan.....

 

That's part of what they do.....

 

[GoColts8818]

At this point it doesn't take a rocket scienctist to figure out the Colts are better in the hurry up offense.  However, this goes back to something Pagano said a couple of weeks ago, "We will be a power running team until they run me out of here."  Well for starters they aren't a power running team they just want to be one and to me that's the problem with Pagano he sees things the way he wants them to be not the way they are.  

 

Now with the slow starts they want to get off to fast starts but not enough to change the way they start games which is to establish the run and play ball control offense.  That's a great plan if that's what your team is built to do.  This team isn't.  They are built for Luck to use weapons in the passing game with a quick pace to wear out the other defense and get them confused and then hit a big play.  Yet the Colts keep trying to push a square peg into a round hole.

 

i have defended Pagano for years and still like him as a person but I don't feel he's the right coach for this team past this season barring a huge turnaround.  I know he's not the offensive coach but it's clear the style he wants on offense shapes how the offense is run.  As for defense they don't have a pass rush we all knew that would be a struggle but not having a pass rush doesn't affect penalties and the lack of tackling we have seen.  Again this reflects coaching, especially the alarming number of just flat stupid penalties being committed.  

 

We have changed all the other coaches so that leaves Pagano and the players.  I don't want to let the players off the hook here because they have made their fair share of mistakes too(how many drops today?) but the coaching needs a closer look.  This team has had the same issues for how long, like the slow starts, and yet nothing changes in the way the Colts approach things.  What's even more frustrating is that the answer seems to be there for them with the hurry up offense.

[SkyBane]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 

*snip*

I don't want to let the players off the hook here because they have made their fair share of mistakes too(how many drops today?) but the coaching needs a closer look.  

Drops are indicative of a lack of focus, a symptom of the same problem that causes lots of penalties and bad tackling. This team is just horrendously coached at the basic level.

[SaturdayAllDay]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

At this point it doesn't take a rocket scienctist to figure out the Colts are better in the hurry up offense.  However, this goes back to something Pagano said a couple of weeks ago, "We will be a power running team until they run me out of here."  Well for starters they aren't a power running team they just want to be one and to me that's the problem with Pagano he sees things the way he wants them to be not the way they are.  

 

Now with the slow starts they want to get off to fast starts but not enough to change the way they start games which is to establish the run and play ball control offense.  That's a great plan if that's what your team is built to do.  This team isn't.  They are built for Luck to use weapons in the passing game with a quick pace to wear out the other defense and get them confused and then hit a big play.  Yet the Colts keep trying to push a square peg into a round hole.

 

i have defended Pagano for years and still like him as a person but I don't feel he's the right coach for this team past this season barring a huge turnaround.  I know he's not the offensive coach but it's clear the style he wants on offense shapes how the offense is run.  As for defense they don't have a pass rush we all knew that would be a struggle but not having a pass rush doesn't affect penalties and the lack of tackling we have seen.  Again this reflects coaching, especially the alarming number of just flat stupid penalties being committed.  

 

We have changed all the other coaches so that leaves Pagano and the players.  I don't want to let the players off the hook here because they have made their fair share of mistakes too(how many drops today?) but the coaching needs a closer look.  This team has had the same issues for how long, like the slow starts, and yet nothing changes in the way the Colts approach things.  What's even more frustrating is that the answer seems to be there for them with the hurry up offense.

I agree with this to a point, But today we tried a different approach to start and it didn't work. Gore looked good out there for the most part and it was our pass catchers that let us down early today. We had more drops then completed passes in the first quarter.  If that is what us not leaning on the run looks like,  then we are screwed either way.  At least we have Gore on the field instead of Ferguson, and Allens stone hands are slapping some defender around and are nowhere near touching the football. 

[Bluefire4]

I can't stand the people that think the players problems are 100% on the coaches. If a player misses a tackle they missed the tackle. If a player drops a pass then they dropped the pass. It is not the coaches job to catch the passes for these guys.

 

I don't know why you guys thought this game would be any different. We start slow at home with all of our offensive linemen healthy and a full week. What makes you think we start fast when we have to go to London with two starting offensive linemen out. 

[Imrryr]

7 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 Pagano said a couple of weeks ago, "We will be a power running team until they run me out of here."  

Did he really say that because the colts in my lifetime have always been a passing team...

[GoColts8818]

20 minutes ago, Imrryr said:

Did he really say that because the colts in my lifetime have always been a passing team...

Yes after the Broncos game.

[SkyBane]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yes after the Broncos game.

I would have fired him after that statement alone tbh. Gross displays of incompetence like that shouldn't be tolerated.

[Archangel]

The scouting report from Jacksonville was not to let the colts go deep and try to double up on TY, They also knew the colts were scripted on running the ball the first few plays of the game. The colts instead should of went with the underneath passes more screens and slants not to mention some pitches which i saw very few of, So if chuck and the coaches made this game plan and stuck with it shame on them. Also the coaches were aware of the o-line and all the rookies playing and instead of helping luck the hindered luck by allowing luck to stay in the pocket and not able do any roll outs again shame on them. Also the coaches were aware that bortles when outside of the pocket was dangerous instead of putting a spy on him they allowed him to get out of the pocket and carve the defense up for yardage which dearly cost them. I have defended chuck this past few years but the fans have been calling for the no huddle offense for the past 2 years because they know the slow starts are killers and the Colts needed to get some sort of  rhythm going and if the coaches havent figured this out by now then yes their is a promblem with the coaching staff. You cannot wait until the end of the 3rd or the beginning of the 4th quarter to start the hurry up offense and expect luck to win it every time.

 

[indy1888]

57 minutes ago, Imrryr said:

What's the barrier to being that fourth quarter team all game. I must admit I'm losing some faith in Pagano but I also realize he coached the 4th quarter team just as he did the first 3 quarters.

 

Not really. Time and score dictated that 4th qtr team more then Pagano did.   

[GoColts8818]

26 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

Drops are indicative of a lack of focus, a symptom of the same problem that causes lots of penalties and bad tackling. This team is just horrendously coached at the basic level.

Yes everything can be reflected on the coaches at some level but drops at some point go on the players as well.  That's like blaming a teacher if a kid fails a class but didn't do any homework and slept through class every day.  

 

I am not going to pass the buck off the coaches because I do think they are a large part of the problem but the players also share in the blame.  

[indy1888]

35 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

At this point it doesn't take a rocket scienctist to figure out the Colts are better in the hurry up offense.  However, this goes back to something Pagano said a couple of weeks ago, "We will be a power running team until they run me out of here."  Well for starters they aren't a power running team they just want to be one and to me that's the problem with Pagano he sees things the way he wants them to be not the way they are.  

 

Now with the slow starts they want to get off to fast starts but not enough to change the way they start games which is to establish the run and play ball control offense.  That's a great plan if that's what your team is built to do.  This team isn't.  They are built for Luck to use weapons in the passing game with a quick pace to wear out the other defense and get them confused and then hit a big play.  Yet the Colts keep trying to push a square peg into a round hole.

 

i have defended Pagano for years and still like him as a person but I don't feel he's the right coach for this team past this season barring a huge turnaround.  I know he's not the offensive coach but it's clear the style he wants on offense shapes how the offense is run.  As for defense they don't have a pass rush we all knew that would be a struggle but not having a pass rush doesn't affect penalties and the lack of tackling we have seen.  Again this reflects coaching, especially the alarming number of just flat stupid penalties being committed.  

 

We have changed all the other coaches so that leaves Pagano and the players.  I don't want to let the players off the hook here because they have made their fair share of mistakes too(how many drops today?) but the coaching needs a closer look.  This team has had the same issues for how long, like the slow starts, and yet nothing changes in the way the Colts approach things.  What's even more frustrating is that the answer seems to be there for them with the hurry up offense.

 

Totally agree GO Colts but am nervous that Jim is not going to want to admit his mistakes, especially this early.  Really worried about the direction things are going.

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yes everything can be reflected on the coaches at some level but drops at some point go on the players as well.  That's like blaming a teacher if a kid fails a class but didn't do any homework and slept through class every day.  

 

I am not going to pass the buck off the coaches because I do think they are a large part of the problem but the players also share in the blame.  

If said teacher does nothing to try and engage the student, knowing full well that student's performance will determine their ability to have a job, then yes, I do blame the teacher. While at some point players are responsible for their own actions, a widespread pandemic of the undisciplined, unfocused play throughout the entire team, makes an incredibly hard case to say it's anything BUT the coaching. 

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

 

Totally agree GO Colts but am nervous that Jim is not going to want to admit his mistakes, especially this early.  Really worried about the direction things are going.

Yeah, I am not a big fire the coach in the middle of the season guy.  I just don't think it helps much and can make things worse but at seasons end I hope they move on from Pagano again unless there is a huge turnaround.

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

If said teacher does nothing to try and engage the student, knowing full well that student's performance will determine their ability to have a job, then yes, I do blame the teacher. While at some point players are responsible for their own actions, a widespread pandemic of the undisciplined, unfocused play throughout the entire team, makes an incredibly hard case to say it's anything BUT the coaching. 

I don't disagree the coaching is a problem which I have been saying here, I am just not willing to admit the players have no fault in this simply because of bad coaching. Some mistakes are things like trying to run before you catch it, that's taught to you when you first start playing football and shouldn't need to be taught in the NFL.  With that said, clearly between the drops, the penalties, the bad tackling, the poor game planning at the start of games coaching is 100% a big problem for this team.

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don't disagree the coaching is a problem which I have been saying here, I am just not willing to admit the players have no fault in this simply because of bad coaching. Some mistakes are things like trying to run before you catch it, that's taught to you when you first start playing football and shouldn't need to be taught in the NFL.  With that said, clearly between the drops, the penalties, the bad tackling, the poor game planning at the start of games coaching is 100% a big problem for this team.

The running before you catch thing is just another bad case of fundamentals, which even in the pros, coaches preach and work on constantly. I don't know what Pagano's practices are like, but the absolute lack of focus and poor fundamentals kills this team more than anything, especially on defense where they don't have the raw talent to do what the offense does and just say "screw it, let's play our game."

 

It's the same story every game, bad fundamentals, poor focus, fall behind, then just look at Luck and say "go win us the ballgame." It was always iffy to watch, but at least competitive. Today it reached new lows, to the point of actually being embarrassing. The only thing you can say is it's a mindset and a culture with the team now, and that falls almost entirely on the head coach. Pagano has got to go.

[GwinnettColt]

I like Chuck but I no longer have anything to say that defends him.   Last year, Andrew was out and we went 8-8.  Ok, higher expectations for this year.  Same thing.  O-line isn't working well, D has very little pass rush, and the DBs are allowing mediocre QB's and receivers to play very well.  We've changed our coordinators and drafted (mostly) for need and we seemed to have regressed.  I don't think the players believe anymore.  Kind of a sad day when your favorite team implodes against a team like Jacksonville.  

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, GwinnettColt said:

I like Chuck but I no longer have anything to say that defends him.   Last year, Andrew was out and we went 8-8.  Ok, higher expectations for this year.  Same thing.  O-line isn't working well, D has very little pass rush, and the DBs are allowing mediocre QB's and receivers to play very well.  We've changed our coordinators and drafted (mostly) for need and we seemed to have regressed.  I don't think the players believe anymore.  Kind of a sad day when your favorite team implodes against a team like Jacksonville.  

On an international stage to boot. The spotlight was bright today and aside from Luck, this team absolutely crumbled. I keep using this word to describe this game, but it's too fitting not to: Embarrassing.

[Track Guy]

1 minute ago, SkyBane said:

On an international stage to boot. The spotlight was bright today and aside from Luck, this team absolutely crumbled. I keep using this word to describe this game, but it's too fitting not to: Embarrassing.

Luck played pretty well. Better than his final numbers suggest. The pick was really just a function of awful protection. There were several dropped passes. He rallied in the 4th quarter as usual. 

 

But the team as a whole sucked. 

[ColtfreakDVA]

8 hours ago, BProland85 said:

If there's one thing pagano can do well is motivate a desperate team. That's why they show up more in the 4th. 

 

What Pagano can't do is gameplan before the game begins. As a HC you have to have a gameplan in mind to limit what the opponent does best while also exposing their weaknesses on both sides of the ball. 

You might be on to something. 

 

I would also add it seems like we always have something to overcome each week in personnel and perhaps more time is spent coaching/solving these problems in the week than making/executing a game plan against the opposition.   

 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

This team more times than not, shows up unprepared and unmotivated...that is a coaching issue.  I am a VERY optimistic fan but this is evident. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

9 hours ago, BProland85 said:

If there's one thing pagano can do well is motivate a desperate team. That's why they show up more in the 4th. 

 

What Pagano can't do is gameplan before the game begins. As a HC you have to have a gameplan in mind to limit what the opponent does best while also exposing their weaknesses on both sides of the ball. 

I agree