Luck ranked 2nd on early season QB index

[FanFromtheWasteland]

24 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Skippy was a huge Peyton Manning fan and it clouds his judgement he actuall said he thought RG3 was better & that Peyton Manning would have led the Colts back to the SB his last 3 years had he remained a Colt  how stupid is that IMO 18 would not have survived the regular season Andrew Luck because of his size strength & running ability made the Colts a 11-5 team those 3 seasons with Peyton would have been running for his life . 

 

The Colts were not the Broncos & that defense in Denver deserves alot of credit for 18's success in his final years not to even mention there O-line that helped Tim Tebow win a playoff game .

 

Here's lil Skippy the Troll showing you he don't know diddly .

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11871368/do-not-hate-andrew-luck

Only after Peyton left Indy.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

44 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

And RGIII at 6-10....

 

Don't forget Tebow and Johnny Football and possibly Romo

[tikyle]

9 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

 

Try reading the whole thread maybe you'll be a lil better prepared  , The Bronco defense is very good & theres more to the story ..

Nope.  Read it and the list still doesn't make too much sense.  Clicked the article and it said all 3 games were considered.  That really knocks Cam down like 5 pegs and Luck down 3 pegs.  I know MIN D is great put Cam got destroyed.  And SD D isn't even good and Luck had a below average game to his standards.

 

Wentz, Prescott, Garapolo, Brees, Ryan, all have had a better 3 games than Cam and Luck.  Gosh darn it Trevor Siemian has had a better 3 games than them guys as well.  And Stafford sure as heck gosh darn it has had a better 3 game stretch.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

12 minutes ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Only after Peyton left Indy.

 

Your correct I did'nt realize that while looking back trying to see if I could find something earlier I could not but found this which reinforces for me what a dingbat Skippy really is check this out when Peyton Manning told his agent to begin negotiations with the Broncos the lil troll once again looked foolish now with hind sight being 20 20 is the dude ever been right about anything ???

 

https://wn.com/broncos_sign_peyton_manning_first_take_discussion_skip_bayless_comments

[Everyone]

23 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

 

Try reading the whole thread maybe you'll be a lil better prepared  , The Bronco defense is very good & theres more to the story ..

Did you mistakenly quote me?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

3 minutes ago, Everyone said:

Did you mistakenly quote me?

 

I guess so I have no idea how tho .

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

15 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Nope.  Read it and the list still doesn't make too much sense.  Clicked the article and it said all 3 games were considered.  That really knocks Cam down like 5 pegs and Luck down 3 pegs.  I know MIN D is great put Cam got destroyed.  And SD D isn't even good and Luck had a below average game to his standards.

 

Wentz, Prescott, Garapolo, Brees, Ryan, all have had a better 3 games than Cam and Luck.  Gosh darn it Trevor Siemian has had a better 3 games than them guys as well.  And Stafford sure as heck gosh darn it has had a better 3 game stretch.

 

Dude the truth is I as I look around I have found another that disagrees with the other 2 assessments , I can only say there are many opinions out there using differing criteria I look at whats posted & if I have the need for a clearer picture I look deeper into the subject matter & learn a lil somethin somethin on line I learned a long time ago that its easy to find things that can back up ones opinion generally as a fan if I want to debate I look for something that agrees with my position . 

 

In this case I read the thread & commented on what was posted upon further review I see there is more to this thanks for your insights it pushs me to learn more . Heres what I found ..

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

[shakedownstreet]

8 hours ago, ColtStrong said:

I guess people only see what they want to see.

 

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ― Mark Twain

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

2 hours ago, Everyone said:

PFF has him graded as the 2nd best QB this season, Wentz is #1.

 

 

Hey Dude I looked back & now I realize what I did I was pointing out your Pro Football Focus post to another poster showing him there were 2 differing opinions on the same " Top graded QB's this season "  Your & the OP's & in reality I found a third as I just pointed out to that poster .

 

My Bad the coffee has yet to kick in it took me a few to figure out what was up with that ..

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

9 hours ago, ColtStrong said:

 I guess people only see what they want to see.

 

  

 

[FanFromtheWasteland]

40 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Your correct I did'nt realize that while looking back trying to see if I could find something earlier I could not but found this which reinforces for me what a dingbat Skippy really is check this out when Peyton Manning told his agent to begin negotiations with the Broncos the lil troll once again looked foolish now with hind sight being 20 20 is the dude ever been right about anything ???

 

https://wn.com/broncos_sign_peyton_manning_first_take_discussion_skip_bayless_comments

Lol Skip at his best. I think he is an Irsay hater so no matter who is the QB for the Colts, Skip will degrade them

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, FanFromtheWasteland said:

Lol Skip at his best. I think he is an Irsay hater so no matter who is the QB for the Colts, Skip will degrade them

Skip isn't serious when he says what he says, he is basically playing one side to get a reaction out of people and troll them. No one is dumb enough to say the crap that he says and actually have a job at ESPN. It's part of the reason why sports are considered entertainment.

[braveheartcolt]

Even Superman could not have avoided those 2 fumbles......

[Happy2BeHere]

2 hours ago, theanarchist said:

Well they have Cam Newton #1 and he has 5 picks and 1 fumble vs 5 TD passes. They have Luck 2nd who has 2 picks and 2 fumbles vs 6 TD passes so I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

 Because it's a habitual problem that he has  so that's how I came to that conclusion for myself. Feel free to come to any other conclusion you want to I'm OK with that 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

4 turnovers in the last 2 games is not good and that part of his game needs to be cleaned up borrowing a term our coach likes to use lol.

 

Strip sacks are generally not the QBs fault, and neither of Luck's this year are on him. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

Even Superman could not have avoided those 2 fumbles......

 

I could not have.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

10 hours ago, ColtStrong said:

That's funny because a lot of fans of other teams think Luck is off to a bad start this year. I guess people only see what they want to see.

 

I read an article on cbssports.com the other day that was saying Luck still looks way more like the 2015 version, and it was clear to me that they're just looking at the bottom line of his fantasy stat sheet. 6TDs / 2INTs is a far cry from the 2015 version. He easily could've had 2 more TDs vs SD as well, but they decided to hand it off in the red zone twice. I know about the fumbles, but one was Von Miller, and it had nothing to do with Luck, the one vs SD was all on him though. Either way, he's much improved from last year, and I anticipate he'll be putting up TDs in bunches, starting this weekend.

[snkdy]

I don't think Cam should be #1. He's played some tough defenses, but he's still off to a rough start. Brees has probably been the best QB through 3 weeks but he's not even top 5 on this list.

[Chucklez]

Everyone seriously needs to pump the breaks on Wentz.... give it 4 more weeks and I guarantee all the "Experts" who are singing his praises will be saying they have always said to not get too ahead of yourselves... even though that is exactly what they are doing... someone even said he is Manning pre snap and Marino ( or some other legend) post snap.... he's played 180 minutes of football for gods sake... against suspect opponents!

[theanarchist]

44 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

 Because it's a habitual problem that he has  so that's how I came to that conclusion for myself. Feel free to come to any other conclusion you want to I'm OK with that 

LOL, relax man Im not criticizing you its more of a knock on that rating system. As Superman said, he's fumbled twice and both were strip sacks. How in the world can you put that on the QB anyway? I understand the ball was in his hands but when you get blind sided or its knocked out when  your poised to throw I think you have to take that into consideration. That's all I'm saying

[NorthernBlue]

Regarding his TOs, one was a strip sack by the best pass rusher in football, one was an amazing INT play by a pro bowl corner, and one was fumble that really should have been called dead. Only his pick against SD would I call his fault.

[tikyle]

59 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Strip sacks are generally not the QBs fault, and neither of Luck's this year are on him. 

You cannot be serious?  The first one Luck didn't see, I'll give you that.  The second one vs. SD was totally his fault.  He got bottled up.  Continued to try and get free.  Was stood up and the defender was just prying at the ball until he got it free.  That was ALL on Luck.

 

Why does assessments on this board all seem even except when we critique the QB or someones favorite player?

 

All of Luck's TOs this year have been disastrous.  None have come when trying to close the gap on a big lead.  All his TOs have come when the Colts are up or at most 3 pts down to the competition.  That just simply cannot keep happening.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Skip isn't serious when he says what he says, he is basically playing one side to get a reaction out of people and troll them. No one is dumb enough to say the crap that he says and actually have a job at ESPN. It's part of the reason why sports are considered entertainment.

But skip doesn't have a job at ESPN...

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

But skip doesn't have a job at ESPN...

You are right, lol. He did though.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I could not have.

Ba boom tish! Right on cue Supes!

 

[braveheartcolt]

15 minutes ago, tikyle said:

You cannot be serious?  The first one Luck didn't see, I'll give you that.  The second one vs. SD was totally his fault.  He got bottled up.  Continued to try and get free.  Was stood up and the defender was just prying at the ball until he got it free.  That was ALL on Luck.

 

Why does assessments on this board all seem even except when we critique the QB or someones favorite player?

 

All of Luck's TOs this year have been disastrous.  None have come when trying to close the gap on a big lead.  All his TOs have come when the Colts are up or at most 3 pts down to the competition.  That just simply cannot keep happening.

Nor can he keep driving his team up the field to score. You sound as if the other teams are not allowed to make plays. Give me a break. TO's happen in every game......and if we really wanted to count how disasterous they have been, they may have cost us one win......

[Malakai432]

9 hours ago, Happy2BeHere said:

Lucks turnover problem keeps him out of the #1 spot IMO 

 

Yeah but he's behind a guy who has turned it over more.  I do agree though if he can limit those turnovers he's in for a heck of a year.

[JMichael557]

This is what is illogical about fans. As it relates to the "fumble" Luck was being held up by three rather large and one would assume strong defenders. In affect you had three attempting to wrestle the ball away from one. The officials refused to blow the whistle so given enough time the ball was going to come loose and it did. He did not drop the ball on purpose. What else was Luck to do on that play?

[tikyle]

34 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Nor can he keep driving his team up the field to score. You sound as if the other teams are not allowed to make plays. Give me a break. TO's happen in every game......and if we really wanted to count how disasterous they have been, they may have cost us one win......

We've played 3 games.  And you admit he cost us one.  He almost cost us another but the defense held the offense to 12 points outside of TOs.  And the 3rd game the defense cost us the game by not being able to stop anyone.

 

That is not a good trend.

 

And to your point of driving his team up the field to score, isn't that what he's paid (top in the league at that) to do?  You act like he's doing something outside of his work description.

[Defjamz26]

12 hours ago, ColtStrong said:

That's funny because a lot of fans of other teams think Luck is off to a bad start this year. I guess people only see what they want to see.

I don't get it. He's only had 2 INTs against what almost like 10 TDs. 2 Fumbles but the one against Denver wasn't his fault. You could argue the same thing against the one against San Diego because if the line had protected him it wouldn't have happened. There's a lot wrong with the Colts this year but Andrew isn't one of them.

[coltsfanatic24]

He's been really good this year but he has to cut down the turnovers. It can't just be the Hilton show he has to get Dorsett and Moncrief more targets. 

[braveheartcolt]

50 minutes ago, tikyle said:

We've played 3 games.  And you admit he cost us one.  He almost cost us another but the defense held the offense to 12 points outside of TOs.  And the 3rd game the defense cost us the game by not being able to stop anyone.

 

That is not a good trend.

 

And to your point of driving his team up the field to score, isn't that what he's paid (top in the league at that) to do?  You act like he's doing something outside of his work description.

Everybody knows (like all QB's) he needs to cut out mistakes, but you make it sound like all he has to do is go to his local store and buy a 'throw less interceptions' kit. You were also so dramatic about it, that you would have thought he alone was responsible for all our woes, and he is on the verge of driving the team out of Indianapolis. There. I'm getting all dramatic like you.

 

It is impossible to drive your team up and down the field every week and not have a turnover or two, whether you like it or not. And only one of these was on him. 

 

I, like you, wish he would smarten up, but it is easier said than done, particularly with a fresh oline and one experienced WR. 

 

And apologies if my response was a bit testy previously, were are all on the same side.....

[tikyle]

1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

Everybody knows (like all QB's) he needs to cut out mistakes, but you make it sound like all he has to do is go to his local store and buy a 'throw less interceptions' kit. You were also so dramatic about it, that you would have thought he alone was responsible for all our woes, and he is on the verge of driving the team out of Indianapolis. There. I'm getting all dramatic like you.

 

It is impossible to drive your team up and down the field every week and not have a turnover or two, whether you like it or not. And only one of these was on him. 

 

I, like you, wish he would smarten up, but it is easier said than done, particularly with a fresh oline and one experienced WR. 

 

And apologies if my response was a bit testy previously, were are all on the same side.....

I don't believe your response is testy at all.  But I tend to disagree that you can drive a team up and down the field without turning the ball over.  Rodgers, Brady, Wilson all do it pretty habitually.  Even Nick Foles was able to sustain it for a year.

 

I get it when we are behind by scores (a la Detroit game) and he's forcing plays because of the score.  I don't mind those TOs.  But that Denver game was the perfect example of what can't happen.  It's a 3 pt game.  You are playing the defending champs.  They have a novice QB.  You cannot throw a pick six.  Just can't happen.  Or vs. SD.  You're up 7.  Have ample time to go up possibly 2 TD before the half.  You D have kept them to only 2 FGs.  You cannot fumble fighting for yards during a sack that gets returned for a TD.  Luck isn't a "young QB" anymore.  Those monumental mistakes just can't happen.  This team isn't good enough right now to recover from them.

[braveheartcolt]

5 minutes ago, tikyle said:

I don't believe your response is testy at all.  But I tend to disagree that you can drive a team up and down the field without turning the ball over.  Rodgers, Brady, Wilson all do it pretty habitually.  Even Nick Foles was able to sustain it for a year.

 

I get it when we are behind by scores (a la Detroit game) and he's forcing plays because of the score.  I don't mind those TOs.  But that Denver game was the perfect example of what can't happen.  It's a 3 pt game.  You are playing the defending champs.  They have a novice QB.  You cannot throw a pick six.  Just can't happen.  Or vs. SD.  You're up 7.  Have ample time to go up possibly 2 TD before the half.  You D have kept them to only 2 FGs.  You cannot fumble fighting for yards during a sack that gets returned for a TD.  Luck isn't a "young QB" anymore.  Those monumental mistakes just can't happen.  This team isn't good enough right now to recover from them.

I don't agree he was fighting for yards, he was ambushed, and was trying to get to safety. He took one step before he was besieged. Where was his protection? Very poor throw for the interception, but I don't blame him for the fumble. 

[BPindy]

24 minutes ago, tikyle said:

I don't believe your response is testy at all.  But I tend to disagree that you can drive a team up and down the field without turning the ball over.  Rodgers, Brady, Wilson all do it pretty habitually.  Even Nick Foles was able to sustain it for a year.

 

I get it when we are behind by scores (a la Detroit game) and he's forcing plays because of the score.  I don't mind those TOs.  But that Denver game was the perfect example of what can't happen.  It's a 3 pt game.  You are playing the defending champs.  They have a novice QB.  You cannot throw a pick six.  Just can't happen.  Or vs. SD.  You're up 7.  Have ample time to go up possibly 2 TD before the half.  You D have kept them to only 2 FGs.  You cannot fumble fighting for yards during a sack that gets returned for a TD.  Luck isn't a "young QB" anymore.  Those monumental mistakes just can't happen.  This team isn't good enough right now to recover from them.

 

Using Wilson as an example doesn't really help your case after that Rams game a couple weeks ago lol

[Superman]

3 hours ago, tikyle said:

You cannot be serious?  The first one Luck didn't see, I'll give you that.  The second one vs. SD was totally his fault.  He got bottled up.  Continued to try and get free.  Was stood up and the defender was just prying at the ball until he got it free.  That was ALL on Luck.

 

Why does assessments on this board all seem even except when we critique the QB or someones favorite player?

 

All of Luck's TOs this year have been disastrous.  None have come when trying to close the gap on a big lead.  All his TOs have come when the Colts are up or at most 3 pts down to the competition.  That just simply cannot keep happening.

 

Umm, don't lump me in with everyone else. I'm plenty critical of Luck, when I think he deserves it. 

 

1) Luck didn't try to get free, he tried to get down. He was sandwiched between two defenders who were holding him up and trying to take the ball away. I believe the play should have been whistled dead before the ball started to come out. The play was a max protect with no short outlets, no hot routes, and Luck was getting hit by free rushers within 2 seconds after he took the snap so he couldn't pull the ball down or throw it away. That fumble is NOT his fault. It was awful protection -- when the QB should be able to rely on good protection -- and it was a case of bad officiating. 

 

2) The pick against Denver was a bad throw, and unnecessary. He had time, wasn't being pressured, and had two dumpoffs to either side of the field. He tried to force the ball into an inexperienced receiver with a savvy and aggressive corner closing in. Bad decision, bad throw, bad result.

 

3) The pick against SD was worse, because it was a one read in iso man coverage, and not only did Luck not see the CB's good position, he didn't put the ball in a place where the receiver could try to hold off the defender. 

[NewColtsFan]

23 minutes ago, tikyle said:

I don't believe your response is testy at all.  But I tend to disagree that you can drive a team up and down the field without turning the ball over.  Rodgers, Brady, Wilson all do it pretty habitually.  Even Nick Foles was able to sustain it for a year.

 

I get it when we are behind by scores (a la Detroit game) and he's forcing plays because of the score.  I don't mind those TOs.  But that Denver game was the perfect example of what can't happen.  It's a 3 pt game.  You are playing the defending champs.  They have a novice QB.  You cannot throw a pick six.  Just can't happen.  Or vs. SD.  You're up 7.  Have ample time to go up possibly 2 TD before the half.  You D have kept them to only 2 FGs.  You cannot fumble fighting for yards during a sack that gets returned for a TD.  Luck isn't a "young QB" anymore.  Those monumental mistakes just can't happen.  This team isn't good enough right now to recover from them.

 

I've put two parts of your post into bold, and I'd like to address them.

 

I'll take the last one first....    about this team not being good enough to recover from Luck's mistakes.    Well, we recovered this week.     We still beat San Diego.      If you're saying we can't make mistakes and beat Denver,  then I agree,  but that's Denver.     At least we beat San Diego and overcame our mistakes.

 

As to Brady, Rodgers and Wilson.       I think you'll see their raw interception numbers are far less than Lucks.   Now,  they're attempting fewer passes, so their int % is better than Luck's but perhaps not as great as one might think.       Still,  Brady  Rodgers and Wilson are able to go up and down the field and throw far fewer interceptions than Luck.     And it gives me no pleasure to say that.    Notice my avatar.

 

                     B                        R                     W               L

15                 7                         8                      8               12 (7 games)

14                 9                         5                      7               16 

13                11                        6                      9                 9

12                 8                         8                     10              18  

11                12                        6

10                  4                      11

09                13                       7

08                  0 (hurt)             13 

07                  8

06                12

05                14

04                14

03                12

02                14

01                12

[tikyle]

19 minutes ago, BPindy said:

 

Using Wilson as an example doesn't really help your case after that Rams game a couple weeks ago lol

Why not?  He had one bad game.  He's had what 3 seasons of sample size to make it a great example.

 

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Umm, don't lump me in with everyone else. I'm plenty critical of Luck, when I think he deserves it. 

 

I still disagree with point 1.  But I do agree with points 2 & 3, so I will concede 1.

 

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I've put two parts of your post into bold, and I'd like to address them.

 

I'll take the last one first....    about this team not being good enough to recover from Luck's mistakes.    Well, we recovered this week.     We still beat San Diego.      If you're saying we can't make mistakes and beat Denver,  then I agree,  but that's Denver.     At least we beat San Diego and overcame our mistakes.

 

We did still beat SD.  A team w/o it's #1 WR, #1 TE, #1 RB and a team that lost multiple CBs throughout the game.  We also beat that SD team at home, by 4 and needed a GW TD in the final minutes of the 4th quarter.  If that is our bar I would say there are not too many teams left in the NFL we could beat with Luck making those kind of mistakes.  I also don't believe an 0-3 JAX is one of those teams we could beat with those monumental mistakes by our signal caller.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Why not?  He had one bad game.  He's had what 3 seasons of sample size to make it a great example.

 

I still disagree with point 1.  But I do agree with points 2 & 3, so I will concede 1.

 

We did still beat SD.  A team w/o it's #1 WR, #1 TE, #1 RB and a team that lost multiple CBs throughout the game.  We also beat that SD team at home, by 4 and needed a GW TD in the final minutes of the 4th quarter.  If that is our bar I would say there are not too many teams left in the NFL we could beat with Luck making those kind of mistakes.  I also don't believe an 0-3 JAX is one of those teams we could beat with those monumental mistakes by our signal caller.

 

Interesting that you noted all the key players San Diego played without to give them a good excuse for losing.

 

Yet,  I don't recall you making that argument for us losing to Detroit.

 

Let's be honest,  if we were healthy for Detroit,  we'd have smoked them,   that would not have been a shoot-out.

 

This kind of things cut both ways......

 

As for Jax,  I think we mostly agree.     I've been on their bandwagon and surprised how they've performed so far this year.     I think we need to be at our best to beat them.

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I'm not knocking Luck but for a 2 year span, I think '14 & '15 not sure,  it could be '13 & '14 he led the league in turnovers. More than Jay Cutler in that span.  Bad OL bad pep or not that's a lot of turnovers, especially for someone who was hyped up as the second coming.

Like I said above that needs to get cleaned up and hope the right people around him can help him do that.