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2016-2017 Indiana Pacers season (and the rest of the NBA)


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3 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

I completely disagree. We gave up our defense for offense by getting rid of Hill and Mahimi and the offense we picked up cannot match this horrible defense. We'd be in the same spot with Vogel and this roster.

True, but I don't think its too hard to believe that this team would at least have a better record with Vogel. I doubt Vogel would be losing to teams like the Nets, Lakers, and Knicks. We would probably at least be beating teams like that.

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3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Stupid to boo the home team..That's not passion...,,just being self-absorbed

No its not. People pay good money to go watch these games. If the product is bad, they have every right to boo. PG is being the self-absorbed one here.

 

He needs to focus on cleaning his play up, not complaining about the fans booing. If the team plays better the crowd won't boo. 

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The Cavs are actually 30 million dollars over the Salary Cap and have signed and traded for every one imaginable to help LeBron. His Owner is paying a penalty tax for being over the Salary Cap and they are way over. I think the only team way over if I am not mistaken. You can go over but have to pay a huge penalty is my understanding. Go to their Roster Salary and other teams and they are way over, others aren't.

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The Salary Cap in the NBA is 94,143,000 and the Cavs current state is 128,000,000. How's that possible? Pacers are just over 90,000,000 Payroll wise for example. Since when did Cleveland become a huge market team where they can go way over the Salary Cap. I think the Salary Cap is a pile of Bull to be honest. A Salary Cap is set so teams cant build all-star teams but it doesn't seem to apply to the Cavs! If the Pacers had a Payroll of 128,000,000 like the Cavs we would have an All-Star team haha Lakers for example are at 94,200,000 - right at the limit, barely over. If anyone is wondering the Warriors have a Payroll of just over 101,000,000, not even close to what the Cavs have.

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On 1/23/2017 at 9:26 PM, MTC said:

Anyone who pays Rose a max contract (or even HALF of that) is insane. He's WASHED!

What's Teague's contract?  I went to the Pacers Knicks game and Rose dominated Teague(20 pts and 6 assists).  Rose can still play but I agree with you, he's not a max player anymore.  I bet he gets a contract in the 13-15 million range though. 

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9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Cavs are actually 30 million dollars over the Salary Cap and have signed and traded for every one imaginable to help LeBron. His Owner is paying a penalty tax for being over the Salary Cap and they are way over. I think the only team way over if I am not mistaken. You can go over but have to pay a huge penalty is my understanding. Go to their Roster Salary and other teams and they are way over, others aren't.

LeBron needs more help.  He needs the all star starters on the East to be on his team.  The dude is ridiculous.  He wants to be better than Jordan but he says things like this?  Jordan carried a team when he was 35!  LeBron has a big 3, the Warriors have a big 3.5(in my opinion).  What other team has a big 3 even?  He's also got one of the best rebounders in the game(Thompson) and two of the best three point shooters in the league(Korver and Smith).  I am not sure what else he wants?  More all stars I suppose. 

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11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Salary Cap in the NBA is 94,143,000 and the Cavs current state is 128,000,000. How's that possible? Pacers are just over 90,000,000 Payroll wise for example. Since when did Cleveland become a huge market team where they can go way over the Salary Cap. I think the Salary Cap is a pile of Bull to be honest. A Salary Cap is set so teams cant build all-star teams but it doesn't seem to apply to the Cavs! If the Pacers had a Payroll of 128,000,000 like the Cavs we would have an All-Star team haha Lakers for example are at 94,200,000 - right at the limit, barely over. If anyone is wondering the Warriors have a Payroll of just over 101,000,000, not even close to what the Cavs have.

Teams can go over the salary cap, but they pay a luxury tax.  I believe Larry Bird has said that Herb Simon has told him to stay under the luxury tax at all costs.  I also believe that this is the approach most teams take.  The Cavs, for example, owed $54 million(!) in luxury tax

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/16719485/cleveland-cavaliers-owe-54-million-luxury-taxes

 

 

1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

LeBron needs more help.  He needs the all star starters on the East to be on his team.  The dude is ridiculous.  He wants to be better than Jordan but he says things like this?  Jordan carried a team when he was 35!  LeBron has a big 3, the Warriors have a big 3.5(in my opinion).  What other team has a big 3 even?  He's also got one of the best rebounders in the game(Thompson) and two of the best three point shooters in the league(Korver and Smith).  I am not sure what else he wants?  More all stars I suppose. 

They'll be fine.  Once the playoffs roll around, LeBron and co. will crank things up and steamroll through the East.  I don't know why he's making these comments publicly and I don't think it's a good idea to do so, but I think they'll be fine and playing basketball into June.

Also, unpopular opinion: LeBron is better than Jordan.  Jordan, while one of the greatest ever, is not the greatest ever and is actually overrated.

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1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

Teams can go over the salary cap, but they pay a luxury tax.  I believe Larry Bird has said that Herb Simon has told him to stay under the luxury tax at all costs.  I also believe that this is the approach most teams take.  The Cavs, for example, owed $54 million(!) in luxury tax

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/16719485/cleveland-cavaliers-owe-54-million-luxury-taxes

 

 

They'll be fine.  Once the playoffs roll around, LeBron and co. will crank things up and steamroll through the East.  I don't know why he's making these comments publicly and I don't think it's a good idea to do so, but I think they'll be fine and playing basketball into June.

Also, unpopular opinion: LeBron is better than Jordan.  Jordan, while one of the greatest ever, is not the greatest ever and is actually overrated.

I bet they'll roll through the east to because it's so tough.  They'll get beat in the finals though.  Jordan's not the best ever but LeBron is?  haha please explain?  Also, explain how Jordan's overrated?  I'd love to hear this!

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1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I bet they'll roll through the east to because it's so tough.  They'll get beat in the finals though.  Jordan's not the best ever but LeBron is?  haha please explain?  Also, explain how Jordan's overrated?  I'd love to hear this!

Nick Wright does a great job of explaining this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdD5ufCJVA

 

I don't think Jordan is the greatest of all time because of the reasons Wright puts forth in the above video.  He's one of the greatest ever, for sure.  But I don't consider him the greatest of all time.

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20 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Nick Wright does a great job of explaining this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdD5ufCJVA

 

I don't think Jordan is the greatest of all time because of the reasons Wright puts forth in the above video.  He's one of the greatest ever, for sure.  But I don't consider him the greatest of all time.

But you consider LeBron James the best of all time?  Mr 3-4 in the finals/choker/ I don't want to take the last shot and want multiple all stars on my team?  I can name at least 10-15 reasons why Jordan is better all time than LeBron.  If you want to talk about Wilt Chamberlain being the best ever?  Maybe, strictly because of the way he dominated games, stats wise.  Jordan is the greatest in my book(as well as ESPN's).  6-0 in the finals(34 PPG), most clutch player to ever play, 5 MVP's, 2 defensive player of the year awards, numerous 50 and 60 point games, had a sick streak of triple doubles going in the early 90s and averaged over 30PPG for his career which includes him playing for the Wizards at ages 38 and 39.  LeBron wants everything given to him.  He had to team up with Wade and Bosh to win a title then teamed up with Kyrie and Love in Cleveland to win a title.  He also cried to get Draymond suspended for game 5.  LeBron also lost to the Spurs in 5 and 4 respectively in the finals and got dominated by a Dallas Mavericks team in the Finals.  He's not the greatest on the NBA's biggest stage and those stats don't lie. 

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3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Teams can go over the salary cap, but they pay a luxury tax.  I believe Larry Bird has said that Herb Simon has told him to stay under the luxury tax at all costs.  I also believe that this is the approach most teams take.  The Cavs, for example, owed $54 million(!) in luxury tax

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/16719485/cleveland-cavaliers-owe-54-million-luxury-taxes

 

 

They'll be fine.  Once the playoffs roll around, LeBron and co. will crank things up and steamroll through the East.  I don't know why he's making these comments publicly and I don't think it's a good idea to do so, but I think they'll be fine and playing basketball into June.

Also, unpopular opinion: LeBron is better than Jordan.  Jordan, while one of the greatest ever, is not the greatest ever and is actually overrated.

Yeah I called it a Penalty Tax, it's a Luxury Tax. I'll give Dan Gilbert this, he wants to win at all COSTS haha 

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1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

But you consider LeBron James the best of all time?  Mr 3-4 in the finals/choker/ I don't want to take the last shot and want multiple all stars on my team?  I can name at least 10-15 reasons why Jordan is better all time than LeBron.  If you want to talk about Wilt Chamberlain being the best ever?  Maybe, strictly because of the way he dominated games, stats wise.  Jordan is the greatest in my book(as well as ESPN's).  6-0 in the finals(34 PPG), most clutch player to ever play, 5 MVP's, 2 defensive player of the year awards, numerous 50 and 60 point games, had a sick streak of triple doubles going in the early 90s and averaged over 30PPG for his career which includes him playing for the Wizards at ages 38 and 39.  LeBron wants everything given to him.  He had to team up with Wade and Bosh to win a title then teamed up with Kyrie and Love in Cleveland to win a title.  He also cried to get Draymond suspended for game 5.  LeBron also lost to the Spurs in 5 and 4 respectively in the finals and got dominated by a Dallas Mavericks team in the Finals.  He's not the greatest on the NBA's biggest stage and those stats don't lie. 

I admit I hated the Bulls back in the 90's for obvious reasons, mainly 1998. I still believe the Pacers would've been World Champions had they got by Chicago that season. The Jazz were Very Good but I thought were better in 1997. Anyway having said that, to me Jordan is the GOAT and this is coming from a guy that couldn't stand him, I am a Reggie Miller/Pacers fan. LeBron isn't even in the Top 5 IMO, Top 10 definitely but not Top 5. Jordan and Magic were better and no way is LeBron better than Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, or Shaq - I would take all 3 of those Centers over him. I would take Kobe over him as well. LeBron and Larry Bird is a coin flip.

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1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

But you consider LeBron James the best of all time?  Mr 3-4 in the finals/choker/ I don't want to take the last shot and want multiple all stars on my team?  I can name at least 10-15 reasons why Jordan is better all time than LeBron.  If you want to talk about Wilt Chamberlain being the best ever?  Maybe, strictly because of the way he dominated games, stats wise.  Jordan is the greatest in my book(as well as ESPN's).  6-0 in the finals(34 PPG), most clutch player to ever play, 5 MVP's, 2 defensive player of the year awards, numerous 50 and 60 point games, had a sick streak of triple doubles going in the early 90s and averaged over 30PPG for his career which includes him playing for the Wizards at ages 38 and 39.  LeBron wants everything given to him.  He had to team up with Wade and Bosh to win a title then teamed up with Kyrie and Love in Cleveland to win a title.  He also cried to get Draymond suspended for game 5.  LeBron also lost to the Spurs in 5 and 4 respectively in the finals and got dominated by a Dallas Mavericks team in the Finals.  He's not the greatest on the NBA's biggest stage and those stats don't lie. 

LeBron has 0 first round exits.

Jordan has 3 consecutive first round exits.

 

LeBron leaves Cleveland and they go from Finals contender to 1st overall pick.  LeBron leaves Miami and they go from Finals contender to out of the playoffs.

Jordan leaves the Bulls to play baseball and the Bulls remain a 50+ win team

 

LeBron has made it to the finals 7 times, with a few more years left to play

Jordan made it 6 times in his whole career

 

LeBron has made it to the Finals 6 years in a row.

Jordan's best was 3 in a row, though he did that twice.

 

LeBron beat the trio of the Spurs, the young but talented trio of OKC, and the Warriors' trio/best regular season team ever.

Jordan couldn't beat Bird's Celtics.  In Jordan's first championship year, they avoided the Celtics in the playoffs.  By this time, Larry Bird was already 34 years old.

 

LeBron took an awful 2007 Cavs team to the Finals in his 4th year in the league.

Jordan couldn't get to the Finals until his 8th year in the league.

 

In the first three years of his career, the farthest LeBron got in the playoffs was game 7 of the Eastern Conference Semifinals

In his first three years, the farthest Jordan got in the playoffs was game 4 of the first round.

 

After the first three years of LeBron's career, LeBron's playoff record was 7-6.

After the first three years of Jordan's career, his playoff record was 1-9.

 

LeBron has career numbers of .347 from three, 7.2 rebounds/game, and 7.0 assists/game

Jordan's career numbers are .327 three point shooter, 6.2 rebounds/game, 5.3 assists/game

 

LeBron is a 10 time first team All-NBA (and counting)

Jordan is a 10 time first team All-NBA

 

LeBron is a 13 time All-Star (and counting)

Jordan is a 14 time All-Star

 

I'm not saying Jordan is bad or LeBron is the best ever.  For whatever reason, people love to hate on LeBron even though I don't really see anything wrong with what he's done.  I didn't like how he went on TV and told the world he's going to Miami (though a lot of money from that has gone to charity), but he is squeaky clean off-the-court.  If Jordan played in an era like today where social media exists and your every move is scrutinized and criticized, he wouldn't have the God-like status he has.

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8 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

LeBron has 0 first round exits.

Jordan has 3 consecutive first round exits.

 

LeBron leaves Cleveland and they go from Finals contender to 1st overall pick.  LeBron leaves Miami and they go from Finals contender to out of the playoffs.

Jordan leaves the Bulls to play baseball and the Bulls remain a 50+ win team

 

LeBron has made it to the finals 7 times, with a few more years left to play

Jordan made it 6 times in his whole career

 

LeBron has made it to the Finals 6 years in a row.

Jordan's best was 3 in a row, though he did that twice.

 

LeBron beat the trio of the Spurs, the young but talented trio of OKC, and the Warriors' trio/best regular season team ever.

Jordan couldn't beat Bird's Celtics.  In Jordan's first championship year, they avoided the Celtics in the playoffs.  By this time, Larry Bird was already 34 years old.

 

LeBron took an awful 2007 Cavs team to the Finals in his 4th year in the league.

Jordan couldn't get to the Finals until his 8th year in the league.

 

In the first three years of his career, the farthest LeBron got in the playoffs was game 7 of the Eastern Conference Semifinals

In his first three years, the farthest Jordan got in the playoffs was game 4 of the first round.

 

After the first three years of LeBron's career, LeBron's playoff record was 7-6.

After the first three years of Jordan's career, his playoff record was 1-9.

 

LeBron has career numbers of .347 from three, 7.2 rebounds/game, and 7.0 assists/game

Jordan's career numbers are .327 three point shooter, 6.2 rebounds/game, 5.3 assists/game

 

LeBron is a 10 time first team All-NBA (and counting)

Jordan is a 10 time first team All-NBA

 

LeBron is a 13 time All-Star (and counting)

Jordan is a 14 time All-Star

 

I'm not saying Jordan is bad or LeBron is the best ever.  For whatever reason, people love to hate on LeBron even though I don't really see anything wrong with what he's done.  I didn't like how he went on TV and told the world he's going to Miami (though a lot of money from that has gone to charity), but he is squeaky clean off-the-court.  If Jordan played in an era like today where social media exists and your every move is scrutinized and criticized, he wouldn't have the God-like status he has.

The problem I had with LeBron is, leaving Cleveland to begin with to assure he got an easy Ring. He joined Wade who was a Top 5 player in the league and Bosh who was borderline Top 10 back then. He should've stayed in Cleveland his whole career, that would've looked much better. Like I have said I do think he is a Top 10 player of all-time but that is mainly due to his talent and athletic abilities = Strength, Speed, and Size. I don't think he is near as clutch as Jordan or Magic were and if I am doing an all-time Draft I would definitely take Wilt, Shaq, and Kareem over him. LeBron was being compared to Jordan and Magic early in his career and touted as the next Jordan. Then he leaves the Cavs to join an all-star team basically. Just a bad look IMO. How some people don't have a problem with that blows my mind. I have a huge problem with what Durant did as well but that is today's NBA unfortunately.

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When I bring up players leaving to go to other teams, it's players leaving in their prime to do it. So someone like a 40 yr Karl Malone doing it isn't even close to the same. He played 18 years in Utah. If a player plays somewhere for like 15 years and still hasn't got a Ring I can see them leaving to go to a better team at that point.

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Cavs have lost 6 of 8 games, the Queens beat them tonight in Cleveland. Any cause for concern for them? I bet they trade for Melo. Watching the Warriors/Hornets and Curry is just amazing the way he just makes 3's like it is a walk in the park. They probably wont win 70 games again but they will get HCA again so that is all that matters IMO. I see them winning 67/68 games.

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3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The problem I had with LeBron is, leaving Cleveland to begin with to assure he got an easy Ring. He joined Wade who was a Top 5 player in the league and Bosh who was borderline Top 10 back then. He should've stayed in Cleveland his whole career, that would've looked much better. Like I have said I do think he is a Top 10 player of all-time but that is mainly due to his talent and athletic abilities = Strength, Speed, and Size. I don't think he is near as clutch as Jordan or Magic were and if I am doing an all-time Draft I would definitely take Wilt, Shaq, and Kareem over him. LeBron was being compared to Jordan and Magic early in his career and touted as the next Jordan. Then he leaves the Cavs to join an all-star team basically. Just a bad look IMO. How some people don't have a problem with that blows my mind. I have a huge problem with what Durant did as well but that is today's NBA unfortunately.

I only didn't like it because he went on TV and threw it in their faces.  However, there is a very strong counter argument to that.  The Cavaliers had pretty much no talent other than LeBron.  They showed no ability to put any good pieces around him.  He played really well for them for several years and he did his part.  The management was supposed to build a better team, but they didn't bring in talented pieces.  Not only that, but he was a free agent.  He didn't hold out, he didn't demand a trade.  He played to the end of his contract and fulfilled his obligations.  For that reason, I can understand LeBron leaving. 

 

But I think there's a huge difference between what he did and what Durant did.  LeBron left a talentless team to join a team with less than 50 wins the previous year that also got bounced in the first round of the playoffs that previous year.  Durant left a very talented team that was within 1 win of making it to their second Finals in his career (and they didn't make it due in part to him playing hero ball).  He then joined a 73-win roster that was already dominant.  I think Durant has a loser's mentality whereas LeBron was given no help, so he left a bad situation.

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17 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I only didn't like it because he went on TV and threw it in their faces.  However, there is a very strong counter argument to that.  The Cavaliers had pretty much no talent other than LeBron.  They showed no ability to put any good pieces around him.  He played really well for them for several years and he did his part.  The management was supposed to build a better team, but they didn't bring in talented pieces.  Not only that, but he was a free agent.  He didn't hold out, he didn't demand a trade.  He played to the end of his contract and fulfilled his obligations.  For that reason, I can understand LeBron leaving. 

 

But I think there's a huge difference between what he did and what Durant did.  LeBron left a talentless team to join a team with less than 50 wins the previous year that also got bounced in the first round of the playoffs that previous year.  Durant left a very talented team that was within 1 win of making it to their second Finals in his career (and they didn't make it due in part to him playing hero ball).  He then joined a 73-win roster that was already dominant.  I think Durant has a loser's mentality whereas LeBron was given no help, so he left a bad situation.

What Durant did is worse (in a way) I say in a way because he was never touted as the next Jordan or Magic. Yes, I agree what Durant did irks me bigtime. LeBron's Cavs IMO wasn't that far off from winning a Title, they went 66-16 in 2009 and 61-21 in 2010 before he left. Dan Gilbert is even showing now he is willing to go way over the Salary Cap to help LeBron. I think the Cavs were on the verge of something big back in 2010 going into 2011. IMO, LeBron panicked and didn't trust the process so he left to assure he would win a Ring. He knew winning a Ring would get the critics off his back so he panicked and didn't have patience is my take. I am not really bashing him but I just don't agree with what he did. Had LeBron won 2 or 3 Rings in Cleveland without Wade then I would look at him so differently. I don't see how they beat the Warriors this season, I said that last season but now they have Durant and could win 70 games in their sleep. The chances of them losing with HCA again are like me winning the Lottery.

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14 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

LeBron has 0 first round exits.

Jordan has 3 consecutive first round exits.

 

LeBron leaves Cleveland and they go from Finals contender to 1st overall pick.  LeBron leaves Miami and they go from Finals contender to out of the playoffs.

Jordan leaves the Bulls to play baseball and the Bulls remain a 50+ win team

 

LeBron has made it to the finals 7 times, with a few more years left to play

Jordan made it 6 times in his whole career

 

LeBron has made it to the Finals 6 years in a row.

Jordan's best was 3 in a row, though he did that twice.

 

LeBron beat the trio of the Spurs, the young but talented trio of OKC, and the Warriors' trio/best regular season team ever.

Jordan couldn't beat Bird's Celtics.  In Jordan's first championship year, they avoided the Celtics in the playoffs.  By this time, Larry Bird was already 34 years old.

 

LeBron took an awful 2007 Cavs team to the Finals in his 4th year in the league.

Jordan couldn't get to the Finals until his 8th year in the league.

 

In the first three years of his career, the farthest LeBron got in the playoffs was game 7 of the Eastern Conference Semifinals

In his first three years, the farthest Jordan got in the playoffs was game 4 of the first round.

 

After the first three years of LeBron's career, LeBron's playoff record was 7-6.

After the first three years of Jordan's career, his playoff record was 1-9.

 

LeBron has career numbers of .347 from three, 7.2 rebounds/game, and 7.0 assists/game

Jordan's career numbers are .327 three point shooter, 6.2 rebounds/game, 5.3 assists/game

 

LeBron is a 10 time first team All-NBA (and counting)

Jordan is a 10 time first team All-NBA

 

LeBron is a 13 time All-Star (and counting)

Jordan is a 14 time All-Star

 

I'm not saying Jordan is bad or LeBron is the best ever.  For whatever reason, people love to hate on LeBron even though I don't really see anything wrong with what he's done.  I didn't like how he went on TV and told the world he's going to Miami (though a lot of money from that has gone to charity), but he is squeaky clean off-the-court.  If Jordan played in an era like today where social media exists and your every move is scrutinized and criticized, he wouldn't have the God-like status he has.

I am not hating on LeBron at all, he's just not the goat.  How many game 7's did Jordan have to go through in the finals?  0.  Sure he had 3 first round exits but the eastern conference back then was way more competitive.  Name 3 eastern conference teams the last 6 years that could have honestly won the whole thing if Cleveland or Miami didn't exist?  Maybe the 2010-11 Bulls?  The east is a joke, if the Cavs were in the West they'd get destroyed.  There were tons of good teams back in the Jordan era.  Knicks, Pacers, Celtics, Heat, Pistons, Magic etc.  The eastern conference that LeBron James plays in is watered down.  Michael Jordan won 6 titles in 12 years.  Also, how many more years has/will LeBron play than Jordan?  Of course he should get more points, all stars, All NBA teams etc.  Compare LeBron and Jordan's all NBA Teams, All Stars, MVP's etc after 10 years in the league.  Jordan's stats and accomplishments are better.  I am not hating on LeBron, he's easily top 7-8 players to ever play but better than Jordan?  I don't think so. 

 

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15 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I admit I hated the Bulls back in the 90's for obvious reasons, mainly 1998. I still believe the Pacers would've been World Champions had they got by Chicago that season. The Jazz were Very Good but I thought were better in 1997. Anyway having said that, to me Jordan is the GOAT and this is coming from a guy that couldn't stand him, I am a Reggie Miller/Pacers fan. LeBron isn't even in the Top 5 IMO, Top 10 definitely but not Top 5. Jordan and Magic were better and no way is LeBron better than Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, or Shaq - I would take all 3 of those Centers over him. I would take Kobe over him as well. LeBron and Larry Bird is a coin flip.

I totally agree with you.  I only hated Reggie after "the push off" haha that series was awesome!  If the Pacers would have had home court they might have won.  You're right though, if the Bulls didn't exist that year the Pacers could/would have won the title.  I think the Knicks, Magic, Jazz and Sonics could have won titles too.  I think LeBron is easily top 10 all time but Jordan's 1.  Eventually I think LeBron will pass Kobe but of course I'd always take Kobe over LeBron.  Kobe and Jordan had that clutch gene or will to win that not many other players had.  Honestly, Reggie is even by far more clutch than LeBron.  8 points in 16 seconds?  Game winner against the Bulls in the eastern conference finals.  He's hit many game winners in his career. 

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14 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I am not hating on LeBron at all, he's just not the goat.  How many game 7's did Jordan have to go through in the finals?  0.  Sure he had 3 first round exits but the eastern conference back then was way more competitive.  Name 3 eastern conference teams the last 6 years that could have honestly won the whole thing if Cleveland or Miami didn't exist?  Maybe the 2010-11 Bulls?  The east is a joke, if the Cavs were in the West they'd get destroyed.  There were tons of good teams back in the Jordan era.  Knicks, Pacers, Celtics, Heat, Pistons, Magic etc.  The eastern conference that LeBron James plays in is watered down.  Michael Jordan won 6 titles in 12 years.  Also, how many more years has/will LeBron play than Jordan?  Of course he should get more points, all stars, All NBA teams etc.  Compare LeBron and Jordan's all NBA Teams, All Stars, MVP's etc after 10 years in the league.  Jordan's stats and accomplishments are better.  I am not hating on LeBron, he's easily top 7-8 players to ever play but better than Jordan?  I don't think so. 

 

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I think Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan I have ever seen as far as style. I was never a big believer in Kobe until he won it all without Shaq actually. He won 2 in a row with Pau as his Robin so I was sold then. LeBron has had more help than Kobe when he has won.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan I have ever seen as far as style. I was never a big believer in Kobe until he won it all without Shaq actually. He win 2 in a row with Pau as his Robin so I was sold then. LeBron has had more help than Kobe when he has won.

I agree their games were very similar.  I'll be completely honest, I hated Kobe in the late 90's early 2000's with Shaq and those Lakers teams.  I just thought he was a young cocky kid who thought he was the greatest thing since life's bread.  When Shaq left and Kobe struggled for a year or so, I think it made him grow up quite a bit.  Then he ended up being in 3 more finals and won 2 of them.  I respected Kobe after those 2.  

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3 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I totally agree with you.  I only hated Reggie after "the push off" haha that series was awesome!  If the Pacers would have had home court they might have won.  You're right though, if the Bulls didn't exist that year the Pacers could/would have won the title.  I think the Knicks, Magic, Jazz and Sonics could have won titles too.  I think LeBron is easily top 10 all time but Jordan's 1.  Eventually I think LeBron will pass Kobe but of course I'd always take Kobe over LeBron.  Kobe and Jordan had that clutch gene or will to win that not many other players had.  Honestly, Reggie is even by far more clutch than LeBron.  8 points in 16 seconds?  Game winner against the Bulls in the playoffs.  He's hit many game winners in his career. 

That 1998 series would've propelled Reggie to Top 25 of all-time status IMO. I do think Reggie belongs in the Top 50 of all-time, clutch wise Reggie was is probably Top 5 in Playoff games. He tortured the Knicks haha 

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That 1998 series would've propelled Reggie to Top 25 of all-time status IMO. I do think Reggie belongs in the Top 50 of all-time, clutch wise Reggie was is probably Top 5 in Playoff games. He tortured the Knicks haha 

Yes he did!  I'll never forget 8 points in 16 seconds as well as him doing the choke sign to Spike Lee lol.  I think the NBA was so much better back in the mid 90's.  And you know what I miss the most?  The old school champion jerseys that you could buy?  I had tons!

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1 minute ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Yes he did!  I'll never forget 8 points in 16 seconds as well as him doing the choke sign to Spike Lee lol.  I think the NBA was so much better back in the mid 90's.  And you know what I miss the most?  The old school champion jerseys that you could buy?  I had tons!

The 1994 Playoffs blew my mind. The Knicks were such huge favorites with Jordan being retired. Then were up 2-0 on the Pacers, Pacers came back to tie the series at 2-2 in the ECFinals, then in Game 5 Reggie just exploded at NY with 25 points in the 4th Qtr! I thought at that point going back to Indy the Pacers would close them out. Unfortunately they lost in 7 games.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The 1994 Playoffs blew my mind. The Knicks were such huge favorites with Jordan being retired. Then were up 2-0 on the Pacers, Pacers came back to tie the series at 2-2 in the ECFinals, then in Game 5 Reggie just exploded at NY with 25 points in the 4th Qtr! I thought at that point going back to Indy the Pacers would close them out. Unfortunately they lost in 7 games.

Yea the Pacers couldn't ever get over the hump until 2000 and at that time Reggie was a little bit older. 

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10 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Rondo went on IG and basically ripped Wade and Jimmy Butler. The Pacers aren't the only team in the East with issies.

Pacers and Bulls both may be the biggest disappointing teams of the season so far. I fully expected the Pacers to be in the ECFinals with their Roster and I thought the Bulls would be at least 10 games above .500 at seasons end.

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8 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Yes he did!  I'll never forget 8 points in 16 seconds as well as him doing the choke sign to Spike Lee lol.  I think the NBA was so much better back in the mid 90's.  And you know what I miss the most?  The old school champion jerseys that you could buy?  I had tons!

The 80's was my favorite decade for BBall eventhough the Pacers were never a threat to win it all. Magic vs Bird was always fun to watch. I just thought the players were so great back then and it continued into the 90's. Last truly great team was probably the 3-peat Lakers back in 2002 because they had Kobe and Shaq, Coached by Phil. The recent Heat teams would've got mauled by those guys IMO. Kobe takes Wade out of the equation and Shaq would've just destroyed them, Roy Hibbert ruled the paint against them haha. LeBron would've done good against them but Robert Horry was even more clutch than he was.

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19 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What Durant did is worse (in a way) I say in a way because he was never touted as the next Jordan or Magic. Yes, I agree what Durant did irks me bigtime. LeBron's Cavs IMO wasn't that far off from winning a Title, they went 66-16 in 2009 and 61-21 in 2010 before he left. Dan Gilbert is even showing now he is willing to go way over the Salary Cap to help LeBron. I think the Cavs were on the verge of something big back in 2010 going into 2011. IMO, LeBron panicked and didn't trust the process so he left to assure he would win a Ring. He knew winning a Ring would get the critics off his back so he panicked and didn't have patience is my take. I am not really bashing him but I just don't agree with what he did. Had LeBron won 2 or 3 Rings in Cleveland without Wade then I would look at him so differently. I don't see how they beat the Warriors this season, I said that last season but now they have Durant and could win 70 games in their sleep. The chances of them losing with HCA again are like me winning the Lottery.

LeBron was there from 2003 to 2010 and the Cavs didn't put much around him.  It's believed that before he decided to return to the Cavs, he spoke with owner Dan Gilbert and told him he would have to spend more money to surround LeBron with more talent.  I don't think the Cavs were that close to winning.  They were a 60+ win team, but LeBron leaves and they are selecting first overall in the draft.  They weren't a complete team.  They were carried by LeBron.  When you look at the 08/09 and 09/10 Cavs teams, LeBron led them in almost every statistical category.

 

28 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Rondo went on IG and basically ripped Wade and Jimmy Butler. The Pacers aren't the only team in the East with issies.

I've always liked Rondo.  I'm a big fan of a guy who can establish himself as a pass-first player in a me-first league.  But it seems like he just can't fit in anywhere he goes. 

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12 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

LeBron was there from 2003 to 2010 and the Cavs didn't put much around him.  It's believed that before he decided to return to the Cavs, he spoke with owner Dan Gilbert and told him he would have to spend more money to surround LeBron with more talent.  I don't think the Cavs were that close to winning.  They were a 60+ win team, but LeBron leaves and they are selecting first overall in the draft.  They weren't a complete team.  They were carried by LeBron.  When you look at the 08/09 and 09/10 Cavs teams, LeBron led them in almost every statistical category.

 

I've always liked Rondo.  I'm a big fan of a guy who can establish himself as a pass-first player in a me-first league.  But it seems like he just can't fit in anywhere he goes. 

In 2009 the Cavs swept through the first 2 rounds and many in the media were calling that the best team they have seen in a long time. Most of it was due to LeBron but IMO anyway, they weren't that far off. If they would've added just 1 more Good Role Player they could've won a Title. The Mavs weren't anything special when they won. Dirk is Great but he won with a slew of Role players.

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