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2016-2017 Indiana Pacers season (and the rest of the NBA)


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44 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

You make some good points for sure but Jordan played much better competition.  Let me ask you an honest question.  If LeBron isn't "soft" and could easily play in the 80's or 90's why does he complain/flop so much?  Other than Manu G and Harden, I've never seen a player flop more than LeBron.  Jordan did have Pippen and Rodman, Rodman rebounded and played defense he averaged like 5PPG, it was pretty much Jordan and Pippen.  When did LeBron win a title without Bosh n Wade or Kyrie and K Love?  Does he get a pass for being swept in 2007?  Does he get a pass for being favored to win in 2011?  Does he get a pass for losing in 5 in 2014?  If so I think we agree.  Also, Kobe beats LeBron in the clutch category and ring category. 

My favorite player of all time Reggie Miller was a known flopper don't act like it's and modern day NBA thing who cares that LeBron does it it's a part of the game 

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46 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Hell they offer that pick plus Ingram and D'angelo it's a done deal Ingram is gonna be pretty good I am a fan of Russel and the pick could possibly be Fultz 

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18 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

My favorite player of all time Reggie Miller was a known flopper don't act like it's and modern day NBA thing who cares that LeBron does it it's a part of the game 

A part of the game?  Your kidding right?  Yea it's a huge part of "today's" game, it's ridiculous.  That's why people get fined now, that's also why the league is soft now a days.

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11 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Hell they offer that pick plus Ingram and D'angelo it's a done deal Ingram is gonna be pretty good I am a fan of Russel and the pick could possibly be Fultz 

Russell's a good player, I am not sure how much the Lakers would actually give up for George though.  I can't imagine them giving their pick, Russell and Ingram.  I could Russell n Ingram or Ingram and the pick but I don't think they'd do all 3.

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1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Russell's a good player, I am not sure how much the Lakers would actually give up for George though.  I can't imagine them giving their pick, Russell and Ingram.  I could Russell n Ingram or Ingram and the pick but I don't think they'd do all 3.

I'd wait to see where the pick is at first then if it's top 2 id take it and Ingram and hope for Fultz. Fultz Ingram and Turner is a fantastic young core to have.

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4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'd wait to see where the pick is at first then if it's top 2 id take it and Ingram and hope for Fultz. Fultz Ingram and Turner is a fantastic young core to have.

You are right about that.  Great point guard, a SF with a lot of promise and Turner is already a beast.  It'd be a good young core and when LeBron's gone in a few years the East will be wide open.  Even Russell, Ingram and Turner would be a good young core but Fultz would be better.  Not high on Lonzo Ball?  Or just like Fultz better?

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56 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

You are right about that.  Great point guard, a SF with a lot of promise and Turner is already a beast.  It'd be a good young core and when LeBron's gone in a few years the East will be wide open.  Even Russell, Ingram and Turner would be a good young core but Fultz would be better.  Not high on Lonzo Ball?  Or just like Fultz better?

Ball will be a bust IMO. No way he should be the top pick. He was solid at UCLA but I don't get the hype, not for one of the top picks anyway. I believe his dad will be causing problems too 

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8 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Ball will be a bust IMO. No way he should be the top pick. He was solid at UCLA but I don't get the hype, not for one of the top picks anyway. I believe his dad will be causing problems too 

I understand not wanting him because of his dad.  From a pure Point Guard talent standpoint he's pretty dang good in my opinion.  He put up Jason Kidd like numbers at  UCLA.  You may be right about him being a bust but I'd take a chance.  Fultz will be tough too.  I'd take either one personally. 

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1 hour ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

You are right about that.  Great point guard, a SF with a lot of promise and Turner is already a beast.  It'd be a good young core and when LeBron's gone in a few years the East will be wide open.  Even Russell, Ingram and Turner would be a good young core but Fultz would be better.  Not high on Lonzo Ball?  Or just like Fultz better?

I like Ball but I hate his stupid dad and I do like Fultz better tho 

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7 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I like Ball but I hate his stupid dad and I do like Fultz better tho 

I hope Ball is great.. I hope he wins rookie of the year.. I hope he takes the Lakers to a championship.. I hope they go 16-0 in the playoffs sweeping the Cavs in the 2018 Finals... And I still won't buy his shoes for $500.00

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44 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

I understand not wanting him because of his dad.  From a pure Point Guard talent standpoint he's pretty dang good in my opinion.  He put up Jason Kidd like numbers at  UCLA.  You may be right about him being a bust but I'd take a chance.  Fultz will be tough too.  I'd take either one personally. 

I feel like his dad will blame teammates and coaches after losses and stuff like that. He puts himself WAY too much out there. If I were Lonzo I would tell my dad to please stop it. That will cause issues IMO.

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14 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Your not the only one who hates his dad lol.  Totally understand.  I do think the kid is talented though. 

I do too I think he's really good bit I just think Fultz is better plus no stupid LaVar Ball.

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8 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I feel like his dad will blame teammates and coaches after losses and stuff like that. He puts himself WAY too much out there. If I were Lonzo I would tell my dad to please stop it. That will cause issues IMO.

I 100% agree with you.  Lonzo comes with baggage. 

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5 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

You make some good points for sure but Jordan played much better competition.  Let me ask you an honest question.  If LeBron isn't "soft" and could easily play in the 80's or 90's why does he complain/flop so much?  Other than Manu G and Harden, I've never seen a player flop more than LeBron.  Jordan did have Pippen and Rodman, Rodman rebounded and played defense he averaged like 5PPG, it was pretty much Jordan and Pippen.  When did LeBron win a title without Bosh n Wade or Kyrie and K Love?  Does he get a pass for being swept in 2007?  Does he get a pass for being favored to win in 2011?  Does he get a pass for losing in 5 in 2014?  If so I think we agree.  Also, Kobe beats LeBron in the clutch category and ring category. 

 

 

I'm with you on the flopping.  LeBron can be dominant without the need to flop.  I hate it when players flop, regardless of sport.  I like how the NHL has a rule against it; there's a 2 minute penalty for embellishment.  I think other leagues could benefit from it, or at least heavier fines.  I absolutely hate flopping.

 

For some reason, we've turned Jordan into this messiah that no one can touch or criticize.  The second you suggest anyone other than Jordan is the best of all time, it's absolute blasphemy.

 

1 hour ago, RockThatBlue said:

What would yall think of the Pacers going after Kyle Lowry?

Not a fan.  31 years old, will want big money, is chasing a ring so he probably won't come to Indy, and he tends to get injured or get slowed down in the playoffs.

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19 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

 

I'm with you on the flopping.  LeBron can be dominant without the need to flop.  I hate it when players flop, regardless of sport.  I like how the NHL has a rule against it; there's a 2 minute penalty for embellishment.  I think other leagues could benefit from it, or at least heavier fines.  I absolutely hate flopping.

 

 

NBA already has rules against flopping. It was implemented in 2012-13 season.

 

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5 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

My favorite player of all time Reggie Miller was a known flopper don't act like it's and modern day NBA thing who cares that LeBron does it it's a part of the game 

Reggie was known for his drawing fouls with the leg kick out, not flopping.

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23 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I don't hate Kentucky at all it's just funny you think it's a better place for a pro team then hopping NO 

Much better...Folks in Kentucky think they invented the game..

......Kentucky and Indiana are the 'mother land' of basketball....No,1 sport....has been for almost a century.

You may not know. Louisiana is football country

Edited by oldunclemark
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4 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

 

I'm with you on the flopping.  LeBron can be dominant without the need to flop.  I hate it when players flop, regardless of sport.  I like how the NHL has a rule against it; there's a 2 minute penalty for embellishment.  I think other leagues could benefit from it, or at least heavier fines.  I absolutely hate flopping.

 

For some reason, we've turned Jordan into this messiah that no one can touch or criticize.  The second you suggest anyone other than Jordan is the best of all time, it's absolute blasphemy.

 

Not a fan.  31 years old, will want big money, is chasing a ring so he probably won't come to Indy, and he tends to get injured or get slowed down in the playoffs.

That's nothing compared to what LeBron does. I didn't think the one on Isiah was much of a flop.  The other one looked like a flop but the refs didn't give him the benefit of the doubt which they shouldn't.  Also, those two have nothing on these lol.  I can find more to add as well.  Probably hundreds. Also, explain to me how LeBron is the best of all time?  If you say Kareem?  Sure you have an argument, Wilt?  Sure you have an argument?  But not LeBron James.  Great all around player, best SF ever but best player ever?  He's 3-4 all time in the Finals with a record of like 18-23 or something crazy.  I'd love for you to tell me how he's the best of all time?

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

NBA already has rules against flopping. It was implemented in 2012-13 season.

Yeah, but it isn't doing much to stop guys from flopping.

 

39 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

That's nothing compared to what LeBron does. I didn't think the one on Isiah was much of a flop.  The other one looked like a flop but the refs didn't give him the benefit of the doubt which they shouldn't.  Also, those two have nothing on these lol.  I can find more to add as well.  Probably hundreds. Also, explain to me how LeBron is the best of all time?  If you say Kareem?  Sure you have an argument, Wilt?  Sure you have an argument?  But not LeBron James.  Great all around player, best SF ever but best player ever?  He's 3-4 all time in the Finals with a record of like 18-23 or something crazy.  I'd love for you to tell me how he's the best of all time?

 

Like Wright, I don't think he's the best of all time quite yet, but given how his career is going, I think he'll be there by the time he finishes his career

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47 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

That's nothing compared to what LeBron does. I didn't think the one on Isiah was much of a flop.  The other one looked like a flop but the refs didn't give him the benefit of the doubt which they shouldn't.  Also, those two have nothing on these lol.  I can find more to add as well.  Probably hundreds. Also, explain to me how LeBron is the best of all time?  If you say Kareem?  Sure you have an argument, Wilt?  Sure you have an argument?  But not LeBron James.  Great all around player, best SF ever but best player ever?  He's 3-4 all time in the Finals with a record of like 18-23 or something crazy.  I'd love for you to tell me how he's the best of all time?

 

 

 

I appreciate you sticking up for me, you read my Posts all the way through and understand where I am coming from, not just the parts you dislike and then twist things to make it look like is all I do is bash LeBron. In fact I compliment the guy a lot on here actually and think he is the best player in the game today. Like I said over the weekend I am pretty much done with the GOAT talk as everyone in here knows where I stand and has seen my Top 10 list which LeBron is on it. So it is what it is. If he and the Cavs beat the Warriors I will do nothing but praise him just to let the Forum know. Beating the Warriors 2 years without HCA would be an amazing feat. I am on record saying LeBron would be Top 5 then no matter what as well. Warriors are rolling tonight, so both Cavs and Warriors are 8-0 in the Playoffs. The demolition continues for both teams.

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This talk of GOAT in the NBA is nothing but opinions just like the NFL. I am not even going into the reasons because it would serve no purpose because everyone has their own opinion and nothing anyone says would change their minds.

The only thing I will say is NBA championships are won by teams, not one player.

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16 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

This talk of GOAT in the NBA is nothing but opinions just like the NFL. I am not even going into the reasons because it would serve no purpose because everyone has their own opinion and nothing anyone says would change their minds.

The only thing I will say is NBA championships are won by teams, not one player.

I agree it's basically one's opinion and if one thinks LeBron is the GOAT just because they like him, then more power to them. Opinions are opinions but facts to back up your opinions help your case much better in peoples eyes.

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10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I appreciate you sticking up for me, you read my Posts all the way through and understand where I am coming from, not just the parts you dislike and then twist things to make it look like is all I do is bash LeBron. In fact I compliment the guy a lot on here actually and think he is the best player in the game today. Like I said over the weekend I am pretty much done with the GOAT talk as everyone in here knows where I stand and has seen my Top 10 list which LeBron is on it. So it is what it is. If he and the Cavs beat the Warriors I will do nothing but praise him just to let the Forum know. Beating the Warriors 2 years without HCA would be an amazing feat. I am on record saying LeBron would be Top 5 then no matter what as well. Warriors are rolling tonight, so both Cavs and Warriors are 8-0 in the Playoffs. The demolition continues for both teams.

I know man!  I pay attention!  Cavs and Warriors both look great right now and are on a collision course to meet in the Finals yet again.  I mean I know LeBron's a great player but I just don't like his attitude.  He wants to hand pick his team, be the GM, be the coach and be the player, he flops a lot and he complains a lot.  I personally just don't like him but he's a great player but I think anyone that if anyone truly believes he's the greatest to play they are high or on something lol. 

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11 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Yeah, but it isn't doing much to stop guys from flopping.

 

 

Like Wright, I don't think he's the best of all time quite yet, but given how his career is going, I think he'll be there by the time he finishes his career

Please explain?  Do you think he'll win more titles?  Will he not lose in the Finals again(he's 3-4 now)?  Will he rack up more MVP's and Finals MVP's?  Will he finish his career in Cleveland if he doesn't win a ring in the next 2 years?  Does he get a pass for getting swept in the 07 Finals?  Does he get a pass for being favored to beat a Dallas Mavericks team in 2011 and losing in 6 and not showing up at all in those finals?  Does he get a pass for losing to the Spurs in 5 in 2014?  I give him credit for beating the Warriors last year down 3-1.  That was impressive, beating San Antonio in 2013 was impressive(All though Ray Allen saved his butt that year).  But how can be be crowned the best ever?  Has he averaged a triple double?  Sure he's going to score a lot of points but anyone who plays 20 years and is that good is going to score a lot of points.  If you compare his stats to Jordan's after x amount of years in the league, Jordan's accomplishments and stats are much better.  Has he won defensive player of the year awards?  After 13 years in the league Jordan had 6 rings (6-0), 6 Finals MVP's, 5 regular season MVP's, defensive player of the year award, 29,270 points and Jordan averaged 41 9 and 6 in the 1993 NBA Finals.  Let's get to LeBron after 13 years.  3 NBA Championships (3-4 overall), 3 Finals MVP's, 4 regular season MVP's, 26,833 points, averaged 36 13 and 9 in the 2015-16 NBA Finals.  Jordan's much more clutch and wants the ball at the end of the game, LeBron defers all of the time he doesn't want to take that last shot.  LeBron gets more assists and rebounds.  I just want to know how he's going to go down as the best ever?  In my opinion he needs at least 2 more rings to even be in the conversation. Check out the link below. 

 

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/lebron_james_vs_michael_jordan.htm

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41 minutes ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Please explain?  Do you think he'll win more titles?  Will he not lose in the Finals again(he's 3-4 now)?  Will he rack up more MVP's and Finals MVP's?  Will he finish his career in Cleveland if he doesn't win a ring in the next 2 years?  Does he get a pass for getting swept in the 07 Finals?  Does he get a pass for being favored to beat a Dallas Mavericks team in 2011 and losing in 6 and not showing up at all in those finals?  Does he get a pass for losing to the Spurs in 5 in 2014?  I give him credit for beating the Warriors last year down 3-1.  That was impressive, beating San Antonio in 2013 was impressive(All though Ray Allen saved his butt that year).  But how can be be crowned the best ever?  Has he averaged a triple double?  Sure he's going to score a lot of points but anyone who plays 20 years and is that good is going to score a lot of points.  If you compare his stats to Jordan's after x amount of years in the league, Jordan's accomplishments and stats are much better.  Has he won defensive player of the year awards?  After 13 years in the league Jordan had 6 rings (6-0), 6 Finals MVP's, 5 regular season MVP's, defensive player of the year award, 29,270 points and Jordan averaged 41 9 and 6 in the 1993 NBA Finals.  Let's get to LeBron after 13 years.  3 NBA Championships (3-4 overall), 3 Finals MVP's, 4 regular season MVP's, 26,833 points, averaged 36 13 and 9 in the 2015-16 NBA Finals.  Jordan's much more clutch and wants the ball at the end of the game, LeBron defers all of the time he doesn't want to take that last shot.  LeBron gets more assists and rebounds.  I just want to know how he's going to go down as the best ever?  In my opinion he needs at least 2 more rings to even be in the conversation. Check out the link below. 

 

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/lebron_james_vs_michael_jordan.htm

Right now, Jordan > LeBron.  But I think that's going to change by the time LeBron retires.  He hasn't shown signs of slowing down, so he'll continue to get his stats and he'll overtake Jordan in a lot of categories, if he hasn't already.  He'll go to more Finals (already has 7 compared to Jordan's 6), has never lost in the first round of the playoffs whereas Jordan has done that 3 times, I believe.  If LeBron can win one more championship and another MVP or two, I think you have to have serious discussions about LeBron being higher ranked than Jordan overall.

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5 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Right now, Jordan > LeBron.  But I think that's going to change by the time LeBron retires.  He hasn't shown signs of slowing down, so he'll continue to get his stats and he'll overtake Jordan in a lot of categories, if he hasn't already.  He'll go to more Finals (already has 7 compared to Jordan's 6), has never lost in the first round of the playoffs whereas Jordan has done that 3 times, I believe.  If LeBron can win one more championship and another MVP or two, I think you have to have serious discussions about LeBron being higher ranked than Jordan overall.

Why does the first round matter?  Jordan made the playoffs his first two years and LeBron didn't?  That doesn't matter.  They are graded on the biggest stage and that's the NBA Finals.  I would sure hope LeBron would eventually pass MJ in points,steals, blocks etc, if he plays 6, 7 or 8 more years, I mean that should be a given.  Right now Jordan leads him in just about every category and LeBron's played an extra year lol.  As far as being in the finals for 7 years(8 this year), it doesn't mean a thing without the ring.  The east is a joke anyways, has been for 8 or 9 years.  Whose the last player to get swept in the NBA Finals?  LeBron in 2007.  He's got to win at least 1 more regular season MVP, a defensive player of the year award, 2-3 more rings, 2-3 more Finals MVP's and how bout a scoring title?  Jordan led the league in scoring ten times, LeBron has once.  LeBron has a long way to go. 

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5 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Please explain?  Do you think he'll win more titles?  Will he not lose in the Finals again(he's 3-4 now)?  Will he rack up more MVP's and Finals MVP's?  Will he finish his career in Cleveland if he doesn't win a ring in the next 2 years?  Does he get a pass for getting swept in the 07 Finals?  Does he get a pass for being favored to beat a Dallas Mavericks team in 2011 and losing in 6 and not showing up at all in those finals?  Does he get a pass for losing to the Spurs in 5 in 2014?  I give him credit for beating the Warriors last year down 3-1.  That was impressive, beating San Antonio in 2013 was impressive(All though Ray Allen saved his butt that year).  But how can be be crowned the best ever?  Has he averaged a triple double?  Sure he's going to score a lot of points but anyone who plays 20 years and is that good is going to score a lot of points.  If you compare his stats to Jordan's after x amount of years in the league, Jordan's accomplishments and stats are much better.  Has he won defensive player of the year awards?  After 13 years in the league Jordan had 6 rings (6-0), 6 Finals MVP's, 5 regular season MVP's, defensive player of the year award, 29,270 points and Jordan averaged 41 9 and 6 in the 1993 NBA Finals.  Let's get to LeBron after 13 years.  3 NBA Championships (3-4 overall), 3 Finals MVP's, 4 regular season MVP's, 26,833 points, averaged 36 13 and 9 in the 2015-16 NBA Finals.  Jordan's much more clutch and wants the ball at the end of the game, LeBron defers all of the time he doesn't want to take that last shot.  LeBron gets more assists and rebounds.  I just want to know how he's going to go down as the best ever?  In my opinion he needs at least 2 more rings to even be in the conversation. Check out the link below. 

 

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/lebron_james_vs_michael_jordan.htm

I agree with everything you said. I mean what is being a Top 5 player ever based on or being the GOAT based on, just asking? Is it Championships, is it Stats and MVP's and Finals MVP's? I think it's pretty much all 4. When I was growing up, Championships meant the most though when debating who was better than who only for the Alpha Dogs/not Role players. Back when I was in Highschool that is all Magic and Bird were judged on was Championships. Let me ask everyone this, if Peyton Manning was the one with 5 SB wins and Brady 2, would anyone be calling Brady the GOAT. Answer is a BIG FAT NO. Peyton has 5 League MVP's and he had the best statistical season of all-time in 2013 but yet Brady is the GOAT in most peoples eyes.

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4 hours ago, BullsColtsFan1 said:

Why does the first round matter?  Jordan made the playoffs his first two years and LeBron didn't?  That doesn't matter.  They are graded on the biggest stage and that's the NBA Finals.  I would sure hope LeBron would eventually pass MJ in points,steals, blocks etc, if he plays 6, 7 or 8 more years, I mean that should be a given.  Right now Jordan leads him in just about every category and LeBron's played an extra year lol.  As far as being in the finals for 7 years(8 this year), it doesn't mean a thing without the ring.  The east is a joke anyways, has been for 8 or 9 years.  Whose the last player to get swept in the NBA Finals?  LeBron in 2007.  He's got to win at least 1 more regular season MVP, a defensive player of the year award, 2-3 more rings, 2-3 more Finals MVP's and how bout a scoring title?  Jordan led the league in scoring ten times, LeBron has once.  LeBron has a long way to go. 

LeBron isn't as good of a pure scorer, but he's a much better overall player when you look at rebounds and assists per game.  I wouldn't say LeBron has that far to go.

 

My point regarding the playoffs is Jordan lost in the first round whereas LeBron never has.  If you want to make the claim that the playoffs is what matters most, then losing in the very first round should be seen as a bigger flaw.

 

If you compare how both guys did and what they accomplished at this age, LeBron actually leads Jordan in some categories.  Now, that's an argument that goes both ways.  More time in the league (for LeBron) means more stats.  But it also means that by the time they reach 32, LeBron will have more wear and tear on him from the rigours of the NBA, so you'd think he'd slow down more by now.

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