Anyone still mad Grigson drafted dorsett?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

4 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

I'm upset at the logic that the situation makes this is a good pick.

 

How on earth can you think that it's smart to draft with the anticipation that a player will be injured? That's losing football right there. Should we also draft a first round qb because Luck might get injured? No. You draft later guys as good depth in case of injury.

 

My question is what happens when they need to be paid? Surely we can't be shelling out two nice contracts to dorsett and moncrief. 

 

We could have drafted other important things like a pass rusher or a lineman. I'd like to think that Luck doesn't need three elite-good receivers to make our offense work... I'd rather he had an elite line

 

Like who though? Honestly, at pick number 30 in the first round of that draft, what pass rusher or o-linemen stood out to you that would put this team in a better position that what it's in right now?

[WoolMagnet]

16 minutes ago, LockeDown said:

Dorsett may end up better than Hilton, imo.  That being said, I would be okay drafting linemen and backers here on out.        

I agree fully about TY and Dorsett.  And with the next couple drafts, that really is all we need to focus on.  Sure, we soon need a kicker, maybe improve TE depth, and perhaps a RB. But the 1st few rounds can focus on LB (especially rush), OL, and maybe RB/CB/DL after that.  I also have heard next years draft looks good for LB.. Much better than this year.

you always hope there is depth in the draft for players you need.  It's then much easier to draft BPA and not reach so much.  This helped when we got Dorsett actually.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Personally, I was never upset about drafting Dorsett. We are AND always will be in the foreseeable future a OFFENSIVE TEAM. We can only go as far as our offense will carry us.

I would like a big physical receiver though. We definitely need a elite rb and I'm pleasantly surprised Doyle's receiving ability so far but I would still like a vertical receiving te.

[cbear]

I wasn't thrilled with picking Dorsett given our other needs at the time.  But yes, I am thrilled we have him now.

 

But given the fact that I was also upset that we took Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne back in the day (for the same reason), what do I know?  

[chrisfarley]

wasn't happy with the pick, warming up to it now.  he seems to be able to catch the ball very instinctively in heavy traffic or blanketed, which is the sign of a sure-handed big-time NFL receiver who has upside out the wazoo.  he will make up for Luck's mis-throws and prayer throws while getting near-sacked IMO..... oh, and he can out run people 

[Superman]

57 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Like who though? Honestly, at pick number 30 in the first round of that draft, what pass rusher or o-linemen stood out to you that would put this team in a better position that what it's in right now?

 

There were none, based on the board. Donovan Smith went at #34, and he's been bad. Could have reached for Fisher, Havenstein, Sambrailo, but that wouldn't have been smart drafting or wise use of resources.

 

There are a couple pass rushers that went later, but they also would have been reaches. 

 

Trading down was really the only way to get good value out of that pick, and there wasn't a lot of trade activity last year during the first round. 

 

Short of that, I'd have liked Kendricks, then you could take Lockett later on. In hindsight, Anthony, Randall or Tartt would have been good picks.

 

But yeah, no OL or pass rushers at #29 last year. 

[csmopar]

6 hours ago, myic90 said:

Hilton mentioned: the game is slowing down for him (Dorsett) and but it needs to slow down even more. He'll (Dorsett) really pick up in year 3. 

 

Well, it's year 2 and it's time to show why you were drafted 1st round young pup! No choice but to develop early and fast!

 

Edit: I'm not asking a loaded question! Whoever was mad that we drafted a WR at that time probably had good reasons. I'm just stating I'm glad dorsett is part of our roster now. I suppose a better topic would be: Aren't you glad Grigson drafted Dorsett!

Wasn't mad that he picked Dorsett. Was more dumbfounded as to why he'd take a WR there...... that being said, I see now why he did it and while I still think he should have grabbed an OL or even a LB, I see why he did. We didn't know what we had with the aging Andre Johnson and Dorsett,  while it appeared to be a luxury pick at the time, may come back to help us later on..... or in the next few weeks. Time will tell. 

[RockThatBlue]

7 hours ago, 12to13 said:

Here's the thing. We don't need to be stacked at the wr position! Jeeze we have a QB like Andrew luck, and we're worried about him having 3 elite receivers. It's just silly. 

I didn't say we needed to be stacked at WR! But we weren't which is why I didn't overreact like many did. TY was the only proven WR we had at the time (AJ was washed up and Moncrief wasn't good yet)

[gacoop1]

With a record at 3-13, we should be a be to pick a blue chip lb or rb.  Garret or Fournette.

[SteelCityColt]

8 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

thats the best post of your "career"

actually, I'm phillip's dad.

 

[WoolMagnet]

2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Spoiler alert:

Spartacus dies in the end of the movie.

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, WoolMagnet said:

Spoiler alert:

Spartacus dies in the end of the movie.

 

Great... another person on the injury list.

[WoolMagnet]

6 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Great... another person on the injury list.

That was good.

u in Pittsburgh?

[JColts72]

Yes as another pick used on d. That has been a bigger problem for many many years.

[SteelCityColt]

40 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

That was good.

u in Pittsburgh?

 

Negative.. but I get that a lot. 

 

I do live in a city with a sports team called the Steelers though

http://sheffieldsteelers.co.uk/

[braveheartcolt]

Grigs should have torn up his draft board just to keep a gaggle of colts armchair fans happy. Really, he should have. I'm mad at him now. Hulk mad.

[ztboiler]

Nobody should feel any different today about the Dorsett pick than they did last week.

 

That pick has to be justified by what Dorsett becomes and what the team accomplishes, not by his availability to play.

 

And...I was never bothered by the pick given what was on the board.

[JohnnyP]

18 hours ago, Flash said:

I think that if there really was a better defensive option or OL option, Grigson would've drafted that player. Dorsett was the highest rated player on the board, and for good reason. He's a baller. If you preferred a defensive player or O-Lineman, who would you have drafted?

 

I think fans are upset because at the time, Dorsett was a luxury pick, (receiving corp wasn't a weakness, although with injuries could see a fast drop off in the receiver corps). We need defensive help badly, and still do.

I was on here screaming up an down about the Dorsett pick ....i hated the pick.  ...and while Dorsett looks like a guy with a high ceiling, i still don't like the pick.  ....i had lobbied on these boards for one of two guys with that pick (Eddie Goldman or Malcom Brown).  ....and to this day would still prefer either one of those guys.  ....the bottom line to me is, Dorsett isn't going to transform this team.  ....you said it correctly. ..he was a luxury pick ....but that was the mistake, we couldn't afford a luxury pick when there were far too many other positions of need to address.  ...it wasn't like there wasn't any good talent available at other positions. 

[JohnnyP]

18 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

Yes, but with the situation we have now, not having Dorsett would mean one real wide receiver on the roster.

 

We all remember the San Diego game years ago. Wayne was the only receiver we had. Everyone else was injured. Aaron Moorehead looked as confused as possible. I really wouldn't want another stretch of games like that, considering we have some defensive starters coming back. 

I see ....so you'd rather see a stretch of YEARS of bad defense or your prized QB getting his internal organs lacerated?  sorry...I don't mean to be a jerk ....but just trying to point out the obvious issue here.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

8 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I didn't say we needed to be stacked at WR! But we weren't which is why I didn't overreact like many did. TY was the only proven WR we had at the time (AJ was washed up and Moncrief wasn't good yet)

I know man, I was just saying in general. A lot of teams don't have 2 great receivers.

[tikyle]

OP,

 

Honestly yes.  Give me Eric Kendricks (ILB) or Landon Collins (S) or Ronald Darby (CB).  The Colts need defense.  Sure it's great to have a top pick come in when your #2 receiver in Moncrief goes down.  But just like a 3rd round pick in Moncrief is our #2 receiver.  We could use a 1st rounder on defense and use another 3rd or 4th round pick on our #3 receiver.  If Luck is as good as he's been hyped to be he can/will make players better.  No need to give him 1st round weapons.  1st round protection?  That's fine.  But we shouldn't use a 1st rounder for any skill offensive positions IMHO.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, tikyle said:

If Luck is as good as he's been hyped to be he can/will make players better.  No need to give him 1st round weapons.  1st round protection?  That's fine.  But we shouldn't use a 1st rounder for any skill offensive positions IMHO.

 

That's nonsense. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's nonsense. 

 

Total nonsense. Especially since Dorsett's THE ONLY 1st round WR on this team. I don't really remember anyone complaining about having 2 1st round WRs when Manning was tallying up 12 win seasons left & right, but now it's a big deal for some reason, and we only have 1 1st round guy.

[Colts_Fan12]

Like I said before Eric Kendricks ILB is who I wanted would have gave us a great ILB in coverage and he's playing great in MIN

[GoDeep]

21 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Wasn't Dorset drafted BEFORE TY signed his contract?  I may be wrong ( I am regularly  ) but I think so.  Moncrief was still an unknown, TY was up for contract ( we may have lost him), we had no real talent at WR in anyone else, we saw what happened in NE, and Dorsett was arguably the BPA.  The pick seemed logical to me.

i also didn't see 1st round talent at pass rusher.  Ray wasn't ranked that high.

lets face it, our offense is a passing offense.  It is what it is.

Tell Pagano.  No need to come out and "establish" the run each week.

[GoDeep]

I thought it was a head-scratcher at the time...but I figured in the future it would pay off.

 

I think the Polian years were filled with talent because he "hit" on almost every 1st rounder.  That's what we need...not this particular guy or that particular guy.  We need to have guys that stick around to build around.

 

Like we have had to replace every pick from 2013.  An early guy or two that stick around from each draft and we'll have something again.  I saw the Dorsett pick as not a luxury pick, but a building block.

[dgambill]

My prediction is that poor Phillip gets the Donald Brown treatment. Even when he starts playing well it will never be good enough. People won't change their mind one way or another for the most part. Haters hate...lovers love....its in their DNA. Honestly I've got high hopes for Phillip...I think he is a much more polished route runner and has overall better hands then Moncrief (even though I love Donte and his redzone skills). I think if he avoids the injury bug he will be a big asset for this team for a long time. Stuff happens. The same guys were probably upset that we took Anthony Gonzalez in the first rd in 07 when we had Reggie and Marvin. Well....you draft who you think is the bpa...and will make the team better. It turned out that a year later we drafted a young man in the 6th rd that became our stud in Pierre Garcon...but the fact is you draft bpa and you don't stop drafting a position just because you have good players at them. What would have happened if the Lions just decided well we have failed twice before in the first rd taking WRs so we will pass on Calvin Johnson? The NFL draft is about amassing talent...after you have enough talent then it allows you flexibility and to make moves and to give you depth. Some people look at a draft and only look at this year....and then you have GMs that have to look 2,3, 4 years out to plan. To see that AJ wasn't a long term solution. That while we took a bunch of OL guys this year most were a couple years away. We took a S that is a couple years away but could be a stud. Sure we've missed out on a bunch of good players but lets not ignore the fact that some of the ones we have could develop into a great ones for us. Step back and take a long term more broad look at things. We have holes on this team....but one thing that has been common amoungst most NFL top brass is you take something that is a strength and you KEEP it a strength. You surround AL with a bunch of scrubs and you have devalued Andrew. You hurt the best part of your team. Do you think Bill Belicheck just happened to start building his team around Tom Brady and his offense by accident? He took a defensive focused team and when he saw he had a stud at QB he started focusing talent on that side of the ball....bringing in Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Danny Amendola....drafting Hernandez and Gronk and Edelman. Sure you don't ignore the rest of your team. You try to be balanced but you have a plan in place to keep whats working great...working great. IMO drafting Dorsett was just this for us. AL is the cog that makes this team go....but without any teeth (wrs/tes) he is basically useless. So we invest and we will continue to invest in pieces to make our offense as strong as possible....we aren't going to forget about that. Injuries...free agency...we will continue to see us invest in players for Andrew...and I'm glad!

 

Now lets go Phillip....time to become a star! 

[Smoke317]

I heard that Dorsett was high on the Patriots draft board. Thank goodness we got him before they did because I think they would have finally had a guy that could blow the top off of the defense...  And I was never mad that Grigson drafted Dorsett. I liked the pick. Think he's gonna be our best receiver very soon. He just needs more targets and time to develop. The picks that I'm mad about are Werner & "Trent Richardson"...  That was supposed to be our Jamie Collins or LeVeon Bell or Kawann Short and Kelvin Benjamin...  Then there would have been no need to draft Dorsett if we had Benjamin. As we currently stand the Werner T-Rich drafts have held our progress back.  Those are the picks or lack there of I'm mad about. And those two blunders still make me want Grigs fired. 

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, GoDeep said:

Tell Pagano.  No need to come out and "establish" the run each week.

I know.  I hear many experts say pass to establish the run.  This fits us much better than the other way around

[WoolMagnet]

4 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I heard that Dorsett was high on the Patriots draft board. Thank goodness we got him before they did because I think they would have finally had a guy that could blow the top off of the defense...  And I was never mad that Grigson drafted Dorsett. I liked the pick. Think he's gonna be our best receiver very soon. He just needs more targets and time to develop. The picks that I'm mad about are Werner & "Trent Richardson"...  That was supposed to be our Jamie Collins or LeVeon Bell or Kawann Short and Kelvin Benjamin...  Then there would have been no need to draft Dorsett if we had Benjamin. As we currently stand the Werner T-Rich drafts have held our progress back.  Those are the picks or lack there of I'm mad about. And those two blunders still make me want Grigs fired. 

I remember many experts thinking Houston would take Dorsett.  I heard they were interested in TY too.  Looks like they found their receivers now.  But as someone posted, they used alot of draft picks to find WRs that "stuck".  

[MSColtsFan]

I'm not mad that Dorsett got taken, but I still have no idea what the Colts have in him.  To be brutally honest, I've seen far more of the junior year Dorsett than the senior year so far.  And I don't think Moncrief's injury means much to Dorsett - I don't think they are remotely the same kind of WR, so Dorsett won't suddenly become a different player.  I don't think he can do what Moncrief can do, so it's going to be the same as it is and has been - under 50% receptions to targets, stretch the field, etc.  He's a home run threat.  I think Moncrief's injury means a lot more for Devin Street.  I'd say Rogers, he did a lot of similar work at Grambling as Moncrief did at Ole Miss, but he's too small to do a lot of the middle of the field work at this level, consistently, I think.  Street isn't.  This might be Street's moment to shine. 

[Myles]

Not mad, but disappointed still.   I would have rather gone O-line or D-line.

 

[tikyle]

18 hours ago, Superman said:

 

That's nonsense. 

 

18 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Total nonsense. Especially since Dorsett's THE ONLY 1st round WR on this team. I don't really remember anyone complaining about having 2 1st round WRs when Manning was tallying up 12 win seasons left & right, but now it's a big deal for some reason, and we only have 1 1st round guy.

That Manning team with all those 1st round offensive players was a let down.  They won how many divisions, had how many 1st round byes and only 2 SB appearances.  Only beat the Pats in the playoffs once.

 

What's nonsense is spending 1st round talent on offensive skill positions!  Look at the Ravens, Patriots, Seahawks, Steelers, etc.  The entire point of a franchise QB is to make guys better.  You don't need HOF caliber WR or even RB to win the SB.  Name the last HOF WR to win a SB?  It probably was Marvin and Wayne.  That SB was a decade ago.  Name the last HOF RB to win a SB?  I can wait all day.

 

You build championship teams around a stout defense and good to great QB play.  Part of that is building around your offensive and defensive lines with high picks and rounding out the rest of your roster with mid to late round guys.

 

What's nonsense is to have four 1st round picks, which will turn out to probably all be HOF'ers and to have them for 4-5 years ALL together and to never sniff a SB appearance with all that offensive weaponry.  See Manning, James, Harrison and Wayne........................

[SteelCityColt]

49 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

What's nonsense is spending 1st round talent on offensive skill positions!  Look at the Ravens, Patriots, Seahawks, Steelers, etc.  The entire point of a franchise QB is to make guys better.  You don't need HOF caliber WR or even RB to win the SB.  Name the last HOF WR to win a SB?  It probably was Marvin and Wayne.  That SB was a decade ago.  Name the last HOF RB to win a SB?  I can wait all day.

 

 

Maybe I misunderstand your question here, but if you literally mean when was the last time a RB/WR who's in the hall then by dint of the HOF election mechanism it is of course probably going to be a fair time ago that they won their last ring.

 

Now if you meant the last player who's HOF calibre we're into the realm of personal opinion and certainly not the cast iron fact you're presenting your argument as. We can however examine it from the other implication of your argument, in that you don't need to spend 1st rounders on skill positions to win a SB. Lets take a look at the recent history...

 

2015 Broncos - WRs (1 x 1st, 1 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd, 2 x UDFA) RBs (1 x 3rd Rounder, 2 x UDFA) TEs (1 x 1st. 1 x 4th, 1 x 7th)

2014 Pats - WRs (1 x 3rd, 1 x 4th,  1 x 5th, 1 x 7th 2 x UDFA) RBs (1 x 2nd, 1 x 4th , 4 x UDFA) TEs (1 x 2nd, 1 x 5th, 1 x UDFA)

2013 Seahawks - WRs (1 x 1st, 1 x 2nd , 4 x UDFA) RBs (1 x 1st, 1 x 2nd, 1 x 4th, 1 x 4th, 1 x UDFA) TEs (1 x 2nd, 2 x 5th)

2012 Ravens - WRs (2 x 2nd, 1 x 3rd, 1 x 4th, 1 x 5th, 1 x UDFA) RBs (1 x 2nd, 1 x 3rd, 1 x 7th, 1 x UDFA) TEs (1 x 3rd, 1 x 4th, 1 x 7th)

2011 Giants - WRs (1 x 1st, 1 x 2nd, 3 x 3rd, 1 x UDFA) RBs (1 x 4th, 2 x 7th, 2 x UDFA) TEs (1 x 3rd, 1 x 6th, 1 x UDFA)

 

The only one that really sticks out there is the 2014 Pats.. and well they had Gronk. Every other team had sprinklings of 1st rounders or at the least a solid investment of 2nd and 3rd rounders.

 

No one is saying you have to stack your entire O with 1st rounders but equally long sustained success as a franchise comes down to talent and depth of talent. You shouldn't dismiss a player from your 1st round plans purely on position if they're the best player available according to your board (certain riders will apply).

 

[MSColtsFan]

29 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

That Manning team with all those 1st round offensive players was a let down.  They won how many divisions, had how many 1st round byes and only 2 SB appearances.  Only beat the Pats in the playoffs once.

 

What's nonsense is spending 1st round talent on offensive skill positions!  Look at the Ravens, Patriots, Seahawks, Steelers, etc.  The entire point of a franchise QB is to make guys better.  You don't need HOF caliber WR or even RB to win the SB.  Name the last HOF WR to win a SB?  It probably was Marvin and Wayne.  That SB was a decade ago.  Name the last HOF RB to win a SB?  I can wait all day.

 

You build championship teams around a stout defense and good to great QB play.  Part of that is building around your offensive and defensive lines with high picks and rounding out the rest of your roster with mid to late round guys.

 

What's nonsense is to have four 1st round picks, which will turn out to probably all be HOF'ers and to have them for 4-5 years ALL together and to never sniff a SB appearance with all that offensive weaponry.  See Manning, James, Harrison and Wayne........................

 

2015 Denver had Demaryous Thomas 1st round, 22nd overall.  And all but Paradis (6th round) on that offense was picked in the 4th round or before - starting offense that is. 

2014 New England had Vereen, Dobson, and Gronk, all second rounders.  Gronk was the 42nd player taken.

2013 Seattle had Marshawn Lynch, first round 12th pick, and Golden Tate and Zach Miller, both second rounders.

2012 Ravens had Rice, second round, Torrey Smith and Anquan Boldin, also second rounders.

2011 Giants had Hakeem Nicks, first round 29th pick.

2010 Packers had Brandon Jackson, Jennings and Nelson, all second rounders. 

2009 Saints had Henderson a second rounder and Shockey a first rounder by the Giants. 

2008 Steelers had Santonio Holmes a 1st rounder, Heath Miller a first rounder..

 

Those are your last eight champions.  Each, as is clear, invested heavily at skill positions in drafts, or got talented players in free agency who were high picks. Every single one of the above used first or second rounders on skill positions.  And that trend continues, by the way, I just got tired of typing. 

[Dustin]

If we drafted Darby we'd still have Freeman too.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

 

That Manning team with all those 1st round offensive players was a let down.  They won how many divisions, had how many 1st round byes and only 2 SB appearances.  Only beat the Pats in the playoffs once.

 

Wow, you sound pretty unappreciative. You should talk to Browns, Jaguars, Bengals, Dolphins, Texans, teams of that ilk, about actual "let down." You're completely spoiled. "Only 2 SB appearances..." GTFOH.

 

And who would you have taken over Dorsett, that in your mind, makes this team championship caliber? That's the question no one seems to be able to answer, because there simply wasn't a better player on the board, pass rush, offensive line, or otherwise.

[Dark Superman]

I like Dorsett, but I don't think he was the right choice at the time. The offensive line and linebackers positions were two areas I would have personally looked at.

 

The offensive line has gotten better, but our LB play is something that needs to be addressed..

[Dark Superman]

The Dorsett pick looks a lot better now because one, he's healthy, and two, Moncrief will be out for 4-6 weeks and we really have no depth at WR behind our top 3 guys.

[rock8591]

55 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Wow, you sound pretty unappreciative. You should talk to Browns, Jaguars, Bengals, Dolphins, Texans, teams of that ilk, about actual "let down." You're completely spoiled. "Only 2 SB appearances..." GTFOH.

 

And who would you have taken over Dorsett, that in your mind, makes this team championship caliber? That's the question no one seems to be able to answer, because there simply wasn't a better player on the board, pass rush, offensive line, or otherwise.

 

Malcolm Brown, Eddie Goldman, Stephone Anthony, even reached for Danielle Hunter.