Nate Irving for Jerrell Freeman, who made that call

[OLD FAN MAN]

13 hours ago, jszfunk said:

Not sure who made that decision, must have had there head stuck some place and not wanting to shell out the cash to keep the defense at somewhat of a respectable level.

Pagano,RG ,combo of both...ugh. I am not gonna say JF would have made a huge difference yesterday, but again who thought Irving was going to be the man to replaced him. Sheeeshhh!!

 

Freeman recorded 17 tackles Sunday against the Texans

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/bears-jerrell-freeman-records-17-tackles-sunday/

were the tackles for gains or losses?

[Dustin]

10 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Yes, thanks for asking.  Unlike some, I don't bash PFF when they disagree with me and quote them when they do.  I bash PFF all the time, so you'll forgive me (I guess I don't really care if you do or don't) if I don't take this link as gospel.

 

He was not an impact player in the game... he was solid.

 

Saying you don't like PFF isn't an argument.  Your wrong regardless of whether you like PFF or not.

[NewColtsFan]

15 hours ago, jszfunk said:

Not sure who made that decision, must have had there head stuck some place and not wanting to shell out the cash to keep the defense at somewhat of a respectable level.

Pagano,RG ,combo of both...ugh. I am not gonna say JF would have made a huge difference yesterday, but again who thought Irving was going to be the man to replaced him. Sheeeshhh!!

 

Freeman recorded 17 tackles Sunday against the Texans

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/bears-jerrell-freeman-records-17-tackles-sunday/

 

 

I confess that this thread mystifies me.

 

Nate Irving was CUT from the Colts on Sept. 3rd.

 

So, for those here in this thread saying they don't recall seeing him play much ---- you're right.     He didn't play much because he's not on the team.

 

So, this Choice about Irving for Freeman?      Ahhh, no.      They don't even play the same position.

 

Irving was more of a Mike.     Freeman more of a Will.

 

[RockThatBlue]

14 hours ago, theanarchist said:

Freeman was worth the money he got from the Bears. Unfortunately I don't think we even made an offer to him.

Freeman was offered the same deal the Bears offered him.

[mahagga73]

16 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Me personally I'm one of the few that really didn't want freeman back he had a problem tackling players and he wasn't that good in coverage that's why I was happy when we traded for sio moore he can do both and hopefully morrison catches on fast 

What? Lol.  He was one of the best cover backers in football last year. They played chicken with him and tried to get him to sign for less, so he went to the Bears for the same money. Anyone who doesn't think we miss him isn't paying attention. 

[VaAllDay757]

8 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

What? Lol.  He was one of the best cover backers in football last year. They played chicken with him and tried to get him to sign for less, so he went to the Bears for the same money. Anyone who doesn't think we miss him isn't paying attention. 

Ya'll going by these "grades" by the end of the season but that doesn't tell the whole story I have watched all the games and I have seen plenty of times when he got beat horribly and got ran over he was undersized for a linebacker anyway he was alright for what we had at the time

[Coffeedrinker]

9 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Saying you don't like PFF isn't an argument.  Your wrong regardless of whether you like PFF or not.

Oh no, the mighty Dustin said I was wrong, whatever will I do?  

 

Let's just ignore the fact that Freeman only had one 3rd down stop and it was for a 3 yard gain.  Unfortunately for the Bears it was 3rd and 1.

 

Let's ignore the bulk of his coverage tackles were when the bears were playing soft zone coverage because it was 2nd and long.

 

He had a great play where he got Miller for a 6 yard loss on a short pass.  But that was his only impact play.  All the rest were just solid plays where he did his job.

 

 

[husker61]

23 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

You didn't watch the game did you?  Of Freeman's tackles, one was for a loss, three were for gains of three yards and all the rest were gains of 5 yards or more.

 

 

 

this is what is misleading about tackling stats. freeman was ok, but i always thought the colts needed a upgrade and i didnt think he should be given a big contract. i said the same thing about pat angerer. that was unpopular here to say the least. but turned out to be right. garry bracket was another one i didnt want given a big contract for the same reasons.

[Archangel]

Believe the should of kept Freeman for one more year until they found their ILB

[husker61]

11 minutes ago, Archangel said:

Believe the should of kept Freeman for one more year until they found their ILB

 

players dont sign one year contracts that are free agents, except when franchised. he signed a 3 year deal.

[mikey287]

Not to knock Freeman, but he's really just a hard working run stopper. I think he is a plus tackler but he's not terribly difficult to replace in my opinion. He was not very good in pass coverage or pass game reads here...whether we replaced him suitably is a fair discussion, but he's not more than a decent to good run stopper in my opinion...

[Archangel]

14 minutes ago, husker61 said:

 

players dont sign one year contracts that are free agents, except when franchised. he signed a 3 year deal.

 

my bust your right well they are in a world of hurt unless they get this young LBs to catch up quickly.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, husker61 said:

 

this is what is misleading about tackling stats. freeman was ok, but i always thought the colts needed a upgrade and i didnt think he should be given a big contract. i said the same thing about pat angerer. that was unpopular here to say the least. but turned out to be right. garry bracket was another one i didnt want given a big contract for the same reasons.

 

59 minutes ago, Archangel said:

Believe the should of kept Freeman for one more year until they found their ILB

If the Colts had signed Freeman for the contract Chicago signed him for it would not have been a bad thing.  letting Freeman walk, is not a bad thing.

 

With Freeman, when he was 100% healthy he was/is quite the football player, the problem was with the Colts he was only 100% healthy 5 or 6 games a year.

 

I liked Angerer when he was here, he was a solid tackler, always around the ball and about the same in pass coverage and stopping the run.  He was not spectacular but he was solid.  Capable of being upgraded but ot going to hurt the team.

 

Brackett was a good MLB for the Dungy 2 D the main thing I didn't like about Brackett was when he would flex him arm after making a play.  The guy had no muscle pop up when he flexed... it was embarrassing.

[ThaCaliColt]

I don't feel any of these guys are players you can build around (linebackers that is). They certainly aren't going to grab anyone's attention. And I don't know what function DQ has at this point. Whatever it is, he isn't worth the paycheck...And the lack of pressure up front is becoming a perennial issue. The D-line on paper is pretty respectable, but then you have guys like Anderson injured and the drop off is extremely apparent. Why, again, did the Colts not target a pass rusher in the off-season? We are relying on Mathis to carry the load at 36 or whatever age he is? 

[coltsfanatic24]

Freeman was faster but was considered undersized. Jackson is a solid ILB. It doesn't really matter who we have at ILB if we can't rush the QB.

[Gavin]

Is anyone else who has subscribed to nfl game pass having trouble signing in? It keeps giving me this HTTP 400 Error and says this link is broken. I was able access it no problem the moment the Colts game became available but not now

[Archangel]

Correct it goes hand in hand if we cannot get pressure it is all mute at this point need the front four to get some sort of pressure which probably will not happen until anderson anf arthur comes back

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, ThaCaliColt said:

I don't feel any of these guys are players you can build around (linebackers that is). They certainly aren't going to grab anyone's attention. And I don't know what function DQ has at this point. Whatever it is, he isn't worth the paycheck...And the lack of pressure up front is becoming a perennial issue. The D-line on paper is pretty respectable, but then you have guys like Anderson injured and the drop off is extremely apparent. Why, again, did the Colts not target a pass rusher in the off-season? We are relying on Mathis to carry the load at 36 or whatever age he is? 

I mean name some of the young guys from the 2016 draft that were available for the Colts who are making any noise?  Shilique Calhoun? No    Camalei Correa? No   Kyler Fackrell?  No.   They said they didn't want to take just a guy so I'm assuming they have their sights set on some high round guys they think fit the bill in the 2017 draft.

[Gavin]

50 minutes ago, krunk said:

51 minutes ago, krunk said:

I mean name some of the young guys from the 2016 draft that were available for the Colts who are making any noise?  Shilique Calhoun? No    Camalei Correa? No   Kyler Fackrell?  No.   They said they didn't want to take just a guy so I'm assuming they have their sights set on some high round guys they think fit the bill in the 2017 draft.

I mean name some of the young guys from the 2016 draft that were available for the Colts who are making any noise?  Shilique Calhoun? No    Camalei Correa? No   Kyler Fackrell?  No.   They said they didn't want to take just a guy so I'm assuming they have their sights set on some high round guys they think fit the bill in the 2017 draft.

Hard to make noise on 11 snaps (Calhoun). Correa-0 snaps. Fackrell-7 snaps

 

None of these guys are going to play much at all this year.

 

Fackrell is behind Matthews and Datone Jones.......Though could be competing with Nick Perry next year to start in Peppers place if he retires or they let him walk in FA

Correa is a back up and out of position anyway at Baltimore-ILB

Calhoun-Behind Bruce Irvin who they just paid a big contract to

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Hard to make noise on 11 snaps (Calhoun). Correa-0 snaps. Fackrell-7 snaps

 

None of these guys are going to play much at all this year.

 

Fackrell is behind Matthews and Datone Jones.......Though could be competing with Nick Perry next year to start in Peppers place if he retires or they let him walk in FA

Correa is a back up and out of position anyway at Baltimore-ILB

Calhoun-Behind Bruce Irvin who they just paid a big contract to

Yeah because they are not ready.  Crying about not drafting any of these kids from this year is a waste of time.  They likely won't contribute much any way.  None of them would add more to the pass rush then Mathis.

 

But to give you Credit I did see Leonard Floyd get a sack in that Chicago game last week.  Looks like he will be okay and you told me that.  I never really doubted his ability as a pass rusher.  More so against the run, but from what I saw I think he'll be okay.

[dw49]

Not for nothing but I don't think I remember anyone on this forum thinking Freeman wasn't worth 12 mill over 3 years with 6 million guaranteed. Plus only 2 mill after 2016 to eat if he fell flat on his face.Most of us thought the # would be around 5.5 to 6 per year. I also don't think there are too many that thought he wasn't a better ILB than Jackson. Just watching these Colt LBs cover and tackle makes this move really look ridiculous. Oh.. well...

[Coltfreak]

4 minutes ago, dw49 said:

Not for nothing but I don't think I remember anyone on this forum thinking Freeman wasn't worth 12 mill over 3 years with 6 million guaranteed. Plus only 2 mill after 2016 to eat if he fell flat on his face.Most of us thought the # would be around 5.5 to 6 per year. I also don't think there are too many that thought he wasn't a better ILB than Jackson. Just watching these Colt LBs cover and tackle makes this move really look ridiculous. Oh.. well...

He didn't want to be here.  

[NeedsADefence]

if he didn't want to be here then you know its the coaching staff and front office

[COLTS449]

2 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

He didn't want to be here.  

 

we could have gotten him signed man.

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

we could have gotten him signed man.

 

Did you tell this to grigson?!?

[jseg18]

He wanted players that represent the shoe. Not football players. I know I'm not the only one that would've loved Moore and Free inside.

*

[NorthernBlue]

Im pretty sure he DID want that 5.5 to 6 that the Colts weren't willing to offer, so he walked away, thinking he could get that deal somewhere else. He didn't and ended up signing for much less. Im sure the colts would have signed him for that much if that was his original asking price

[oldunclemark]

  we didnt want him to go.....remember who we've paid the last 2 years

[BullsColtsFan1]

He's a tackling machine!  Didn't he sign with Chicago for what Indy offered?

[southwest1]

51 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Did you tell this to grigson?!?

 Ryan's best prospect from the Canadian Football League that he brought to INDY that actually turned into something positive for us & poof John Fox lands him. 

 

I get that money between an athlete & front office doesn't always mesh, but it makes me raise an eyebrow when I think that Freeman was a feather in Grigson's GM cap & he lets him go. Grigs has had more misses than hits & Freeman was a defensive success at LOS for awhile. 

 

Vic Fangio is a good DC, but Bears ownership is so darn cheap that I feel sorry for Freeman now. Not a winning franchise at all. There's no way Chicago making the playoffs with Minnesota & GB in the same division. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

He's still a beast and plays with passion and heart. 

[a06cc]

55 minutes ago, jseg18 said:

He wanted players that represent the shoe. Not football players. I know I'm not the only one that would've loved Moore and Free inside.

*

You watch Moore play in Denver? Wasn't pretty

[NewColtsFan]

 

Yeah.....      I think Grigson misplayed Freeman's contract,  and not just this one....

 

We first signed Freeman to a 3-year deal.    And he played it out.    I think he may have been late to report from some "voluntary" off-season work to say that he wasn't happy that he wasn't getting a new deal.

 

Then,  after his 3-year deal,  we gave him a 2nd, or 3rd round tender...   if another team signed him,  we'd give up that pick....    but no one did and Freeman got a 1-year, 2.4 million dollar deal.     Again, Freeman is in his prime earning years and he's not making very much money.

 

So,  this past off-season comes around and either we didn't make him an offer at all to begin with,  or whatever we offered, Freeman turned down.     But,  I think we told him to shop around and perhaps we'd match the deal.   And that's what happened.    Freeman shopped and shopped and gets the Bears offer and we agreed to match.

But now Freema has the right to say "no thanks" to us and he chose Chicago over Indy.     I think he felt far more love and respect from the Bears than he did from the Colts.

 

I think we over-played our hand.    And we lost a guy we probably shouldn't have.

 

[southwest1]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah.....      I think Grigson misplayed Freeman's contract,  and not just this one....

 

We first signed Freeman to a 3-year deal.    And he played it out.    I think he may have been late to report from some "voluntary" off-season work to say that he wasn't happy that he wasn't getting a new deal.

 

Then,  after his 3-year deal,  we gave him a 2nd, or 3rd round tender...   if another team signed him,  we'd give up that pick....    but no one did and Freeman got a 1-year, 2.4 million dollar deal.     Again, Freeman is in his prime earning years and he's not making very much money.

 

So,  this past off-season comes around and either we didn't make him an offer at all to begin with,  or whatever we offered, Freeman turned down.     But,  I think we told him to shop around and perhaps we'd match the deal.   And that's what happened.    Freeman shopped and shopped and gets the Bears offer and we agreed to match.

But now Freema has the right to say "no thanks" to us and he chose Chicago over Indy.     I think he felt far more love and respect from the Bears than he did from the Colts.

 

I think we over-played our hand.    And we lost a guy we probably shouldn't have.

 

Nice breakdown of the deal--What was offered & why Freeman went elsewhere NCF. 

 

Usually, GMs pass on a proven LB that always makes plays for 1 of 2 reasons. Either their game production dramatically slides downward or the athlete in question makes headlines for all the wrong reasons off the field. Neither example applies directly to Freeman himself. 

 

I get that all GMs make bad decisions they wish they could hit the rewind button on, but letting Freeman walk out the door was really foolish. He proved his value to our club & we should have met his asking price IMO. 

[NewColtsFan]

29 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Nice breakdown of the deal--What was offered & why Freeman went elsewhere NCF. 

 

Usually, GMs pass on a proven LB that always makes plays for 1 of 2 reasons. Either their game production dramatically slides downward or the athlete in question makes headlines for all the wrong reasons off the field. Neither example applies directly to Freeman himself. 

 

I get that all GMs make bad decisions they wish they could hit the rewind button on, but letting Freeman walk out the door was really foolish. He proved his value to our club & we should have met his asking price IMO. 

 

To be clear,  I think we offered to match.....   but by that time, I think Freeman felt the love and respect much more from Chicago,   so he picked the Bears offer over the same one from the Colts.

 

At least,   that's my understanding of the events....

 

[jchandler7]

According to an article i read about Freeman he supposedly said in an interview that Indy offered him a conract before free agency but after that he never heard from them again. He basically stated that he initially turned down the offer because he wanted to test the market but after doing so he decided to come back to Indy (which is where he said he really wanted to be all along) but the offer was done off the table.

[southwest1]

26 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

To be clear,  I think we offered to match.....   but by that time, I think Freeman felt the love and respect much more from Chicago,   so he picked the Bears offer over the same one from the Colts.

 

At least,   that's my understanding of the events....

 

You're probably right since you're so thorough in what you write NCF. That's a complement BTW. 

 

John Fox is a good coach who took both the Panthers & Broncos to SBs something that sounds appealing even alluring but Freeman didn't understand that Championship pedigree starts from the top down & a quality coach alone won't get you there especially a QB like Jay Cutler who always acts like wins & loses don't matter in post press conferences as long as his check clears. 

 

Freeman could have called Grigs back a day later & said I reconsidered & I want to come back home, but he didn't. By season's end, he will figure out the colossal mistake he made. Trust me. 

[dw49]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

To be clear,  I think we offered to match.....   but by that time, I think Freeman felt the love and respect much more from Chicago,   so he picked the Bears offer over the same one from the Colts.

 

At least,   that's my understanding of the events....

 

 

 

I think it's hard to know just how the negotiations went. But usually if you "lowball" your player , he does sign with a different team , rather than going back to his old team for the same money. That is at least the trend we see and it makes sense as the player is "insulted" by the low offer (obvious reason for this) and you have some bad feelings This I would think is how a guy like our TE Allen gets a contract like he got. My point was Grigson should have resigned Freeman considering the Indy LB situation. It also appears that he could have kept Freeman for the money he would have saved by letting Jackson go. 

[aaron11]

5 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I think it's hard to know just how the negotiations went. But usually if you "lowball" your player , he does sign with a different team , rather than going back to his old team for the same money. That is at least the trend we see and it makes sense as the player is "insulted" by the low offer (obvious reason for this) and you have some bad feelings This I would think is how a guy like our TE Allen gets a contract like he got. My point was Grigson should have resigned Freeman considering the Indy LB situation. It also appears that he could have kept Freeman for the money he would have saved by letting Jackson go. 

i think there was a significant cap penalty for cutting DQ

[OLD FAN MAN]

he was not a game changer, good at tackles for gains, not too good at tackles for losses, better than what we have now, but not someone other teams feared