That last time out (Pagano Clock Management)... {[Merge]}

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

It's no guarantee that you score.  You run the clock down to 30 seconds, then take your last time out.  You try a couple throws and you don't get in and it's over.  You try running the ball and don't get in and the clock is ticking.  I'm not saying I love the timeout call, but it isn't as bad as people make it seem.  It wasn't the only thing that cost us the game today

Definitely wasn't. I still don't think that means we can't question it. You control the ball you control the clock. Luck isn't a rookie....he's in his 5th year. Honestly our coaches acted like rookies. Taking time outs to get right personnel on the field is poor coaching. Do they have to take a timeout every time they sub a guy in? No obviously not so that's a lie. They called a timeout because they needed time to think . To make decisions on what play to run and didn't trust the offense to keep moving with what they had. Hey they scored and that's the objective...however the final goal is to win and scoring early is just as bad as not scoring. We had nil shot at stopping Detroit. You win or lose with your best players on the field. That's offense and that's by trusting luck to manage the clock. No it wasn't the only reason we lost but I still think we messed it up. Doesn't mean everyone should be fired but it was questionable coaching.

[SilentHill]

14 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Bingo

 

 

Being down 21-3 at one point is what cost us the game. If the offense didn't wait so long to wake up, we probably win.

 

woah now, I know the offense started slow, but this loss is not on them, it's 200% on the defense.

[threeflight]

1 minute ago, Dustin said:

 

1:15 is an eternity in the redzone. Basically every pass is going to the endzone that close.

Exactly....I am amazed that people cannot see this.  This alone would have take 30 seconds off the clock.

 

Yet the complain about a pooch kick which might have burned off 5 seconds.

[threeflight]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

WE HAD NO GUARANTEE OF SCORING!!!

 

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

Of course we had no guarantee. But whether we scored or not from the 12 yard line was not contingent on time.  So therefore, you burn off as much time as possible.

[our_dbs_rock]

7 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

It would have taken a series of plays of disasterous proportions to run out 1:15 seconds of game time with 12 yards to go.

 

This is my problem.  They had plenty of time to run multiple plays including getting another first down without having to take any timeouts yet.  They could have saved them for later if they choose to run and didn't make it to the endzone or if Luck was sacked.

[Bluefire4]

21 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I beg to differ 

About what? The automatic touchdown or that firing Pagano would make the team better. If it is the latter you are sadly mistaken.

[BlueShoe]

Just now, threeflight said:

Of course we had no guarantee. But whether we scored or not from the 12 yard line was not contingent on time.  So therefore, you burn off as much time as possible.

 

Do you know when you run out the clock?

 

WHEN YOU HAVE THE LEAD!

 

We were not in a situation to have AV kick a field goal and win the game. Touchdowns are not guaranteed and you have to take them when the opportunity is there, especially when you need one to take the lead.

[Aces101]

1 minute ago, threeflight said:

Of course we had no guarantee. But whether we scored or not from the 12 yard line was not contingent on time.  So therefore, you burn off as much time as possible.

Agree - the sad thing was the Lions getting the ball with enough time to

do anything with it was contingent on the Colts ability/inability to

milk the clock.  Pagano

blew it!

[Malakai432]

18 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Bingo

 

 

Being down 21-3 at one point is what cost us the game. If the offense didn't wait so long to wake up, we probably win.

 

Yeah I agree.  This team usually seems unprepared on a consistent basis though and has a nasty habit of spotting teams huge leads.  I'm not sure if it falls on coaching or other factors.

[Willbm]

1 minute ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

This is my problem.  They had plenty of time to run multiple plays including getting another first down without having to take any timeouts yet.  They could have saved them for later if they choose to run and didn't make it to the endzone or if Luck was sacked.

Could also have let another 20 seconds run off after official review, and then not kick the ball out of the end zone.  Can't fire Pagano, but Grigson and Irsay should hold him accountable with a fine, suspension, or something.  At least acknowledge he sabotaged the game for the fans and his players.

[threeflight]

I talked about this earlier this week in another thread.  I said does Pagano give us the best opp to win every time out?  The same as lets say a Harbauch or Bellickchick?

 

And the answer is no.  And this was a prime example.  BB would have run off every second he could have.  

 

You know it.  I know it.  Boo the dog knows it.

[ColtsLegacy]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

WE HAD NO GUARANTEE OF SCORING!!!

 

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

 

All they had to do was run an extra 20 seconds off the clock and make the Lions waste a TO or two, not give them an extra one. That would have little to no effect on the Colts chances of scoring. And, in all likelihood the group that would blow the game would be the defense if you leave too much time on the clock. And, well, that's exactly what happened. A coach needs to weigh the situation. It was an easy call to make in real time, not just using hindsight.

[our_dbs_rock]

6 minutes ago, Camio said:

 

Why would the Colts run out of time on offense? They scored with ton of time left.

 

Btw, most NFL HCs in place of Caldwell would've called a TO in that circumstance had the Colts ran the clock to hope that if the opposing team score, you have more time left on the clock.

 

Time wasnt an issue for the Colts. Time was an issue for the Lions. Pagano's mistake helped them.

 

Dont believe me? Watch NFL weekly and you'll see these types of situations arise all the time. There's a reason some HCs have a reputation as bad clock management HCs. Caldwell and Reid are 2 notorious ones.

 

I wont even bother with Pagano. I'm not even mad about the loss btw. Colts had troubles vs the Lions, so imagine the rest of the season ;)

 

I dont think the Colts would still have all these flaws with say, Arians as HC.

 

 

If Arians was the coach, then I would guess Luck would be in a full body cast.  With Grigson's offensive line and Arians offense style, Luck would be in traction.

[threeflight]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Do you know when you run out the clock?

 

WHEN YOU HAVE THE LEAD!

 

We were not in a situation to have AV kick a field goal and win the game. Touchdowns are not guaranteed and you have to take them when the opportunity is there, especially when you need one to take the lead.

I don't even know what this means.

 

Are you saying that from the 12 yard line, with 1:15 left, that time is an issue in regards to the Colts scoring?

 

Because I can promise you...it isn't.

[BlueShoe]

Just now, ColtsLegacy said:

 

All they had to do was run an extra 20 seconds off the clock and make the Lions waste a TO or two, not give them an extra one. That would have little to no effect on the Colts chances of scoring. And, in all likelihood the group that would blow the game would be the defense if you leave too much time on the clock. And, well, that's exactly what happened. A coach needs to weigh the situation. It was an easy call to make in real time, not just using hindsight.

 

SURE!

 

And then what if we needed more plays or more time to score?

 

Our defense should be able to hold a team from going 40 yards in 37 seconds.

 

We didn't stop them so we lost.

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

About what? The automatic touchdown or that firing Pagano would make the team better. If it is the latter you are sadly mistaken.

Firing him would ensure we get a top pick to start over with and do it the right way not with the clowns running the show now 

 

[JaseAiden23]

39 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I might be in the minority here, but I don't hate taking the timeout.  The clock is running and I think it was 3rd down.  You take the time out to regroup and make sure everyone is on the same page.  If there is even one mistake, it's 4th down with even less time on the clock.  It just gives you some breathing room.  Not the worst decision of the day, in my opinion

You people claiming it was the defense and not clock management that lost the game obviously hadn't watched our D play. Which my makes my point about clock management that much more valid!!  Our defense had been playing poorly, so leave the least amount of time on the clock as you can.  Luck should have known that too when he hiked the ball with 38 seconds but calling a timeout with a 1:15 to go and not letting the clock run any is beside me.  Ohh and the kickoff is another story within itself!!   I've never seen a guy who is so bad about managing the clock!!

[BlueShoe]

Just now, threeflight said:

I don't even know what this means.

 

Are you saying that from the 12 yard line, with 1:15 left, that time is an issue in regards to the Colts scoring?

 

Because I can promise you...it isn't.

 

We still could have got a first down.

 

It was a great pass to Doyle and a very good catch.

 

Would you rather Luck kneel down instead of throwing the go-ahead touchdown?

 

If so then that is ridiculous. 

[Camio]

Just now, our_dbs_rock said:

 

 

If Arians was the coach, then I would guess Luck would be in a full body cast.  With Grigson's offensive line and Arians offense style, Luck would be in traction.

 

Like last year? ;)

 

Are you seriously comparing Arians and Pagano?

[SilentHill]

4 minutes ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

 

If Arians was the coach, then I would guess Luck would be in a full body cast.  With Grigson's offensive line and Arians offense style, Luck would be in traction.

 

So your saying Luck would have been injured more than he was last season? cmon get real.

[threeflight]

3 minutes ago, JaseAiden23 said:

You people claiming it was the defense and not clock management that lost the game obviously hadn't watched our D play. Which my makes my point about clock management that much more valid!!  Our defense had been playing poorly, so leave the least amount of time on the clock as you can.  Luck should have known that too when he hiked the ball with 38 seconds but calling a timeout with a 1:15 to go and not letting the clock run any is beside me.  Ohh and the kickoff is another story within itself!!   I've never seen a guy who is so bad about managing the clock!!

Pagano calling timeout there was expected....because he is just a dumb HC.

 

Luck not running the time off the clock after the review?  HE KNOWS BETTER.

[our_dbs_rock]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

SURE!

 

And then what if we needed more plays or more time to score?

 

Our defense should be able to hold a team from going 40 yards in 37 seconds.

 

We didn't stop them so we lost.

 

Time wasn't an issue,  there was plenty of time to run multiple plays without stopping the clock.  I doesn't take nearly as long for the receivers to get back to line of scrimmage to set up the next play when they only run 5- 10 yards down the field.

 

No one is disagreeing that the defense played like crap.

[Camio]

5 minutes ago, JaseAiden23 said:

You people claiming it was the defense and not clock management that lost the game obviously hadn't watched our D play. Which my makes my point about clock management that much more valid!!  Our defense had been playing poorly, so leave the least amount of time on the clock as you can.  Luck should have known that too when he hiked the ball with 38 seconds but calling a timeout with a 1:15 to go and not letting the clock run any is beside me.  Ohh and the kickoff is another story within itself!!   I've never seen a guy who is so bad about managing the clock!!

 

Caldwell and Reid say hi ;)

[threeflight]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

We still could have got a first down.

 

It was a great pass to Doyle and a very good catch.

 

Would you rather Luck kneel down instead of throwing the go-ahead touchdown?

 

If so then that is ridiculous. 

Please someone else try to explain this to Blue shoe....because I literally feel like I am talking to a wall.

[our_dbs_rock]

1 minute ago, Camio said:

 

Like last year? ;)

 

Are you seriously comparing Arians and Pagano?

 

Well, Arians offense injured 3 QBs last year.  How many more would  have been injured with the Colts O-line? ;)

 

Not saying Pagona is better or worse.  Just that Arians is over hyped a bit.

[Bluefire4]

8 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Firing him would ensure we get a top pick to start over with and do it the right way not with the clowns running the show now 

 

So not firing him means we won't get the top pick? If he's as bad as you guys say we will be the worst team with or without him. And we can just fire him at the end of the season if that is the case.

[our_dbs_rock]

3 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

So your saying Luck would have been injured more than he was last season? cmon get real.

 

No, it may have come a year or two earlier.  Arians has injured lots of QBs with his long ball offense.

[BlueShoe]

5 minutes ago, our_dbs_rock said:

 

Time wasn't an issue,  there was plenty of time to run multiple plays without stopping the clock.  I doesn't take nearly as long for the receivers to get back to line of scrimmage to set up the next play when they only run 5- 10 yards down the field.

 

No one is disagreeing that the defense played like crap.

 

How many of you would be crying if we ran the clock out and did not score?

 

You guys are freaking hilarious. 

[Camio]

I'm not a fan of his QBs dropping back 7-10 yards.

 

Besides that, I dont mind him. I'd take him easily over Pagano. That doesnt mean I think Arians is a top HC. But, when you compare the 2, its not even close.

 

With 3rd string qbs and all the injuries, he got his team to the playoffs.

 

I'm not a huge fan of Arians but, if you compare the 2, its not even close. Whether is what they have done as HCs or as coordinators.

[Camio]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

How many of you would be crying if we ran the clock out and did not score?

 

You guys are freaking hilarious. 

 

If you think time was an issue when the Colts had the ball late in the 4th, then we cant help you.

 

You're the hilarious one, sorry.

[BlueShoe]

7 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Please someone else try to explain this to Blue shoe....because I literally feel like I am talking to a wall.

 

I am very thankful that you're not managing the Colts clock.

[Aces101]

Kneel down - NO WAY

 

Here's how the Colts could have milked clock time:

 

not call a dumb timeout with 1:00 plus on the clock and on the opponent's 12 or 13 yard line - easy way to kill clock

 

working 15-20 seconds off the clock following the booth review - easy way to kill clock

 

When kicking off from the 50 yard line, just have McAfee Pop the kickoff high or Squibb kick it inside the 10 yard line, force a return, and tackle inside the 15 yard line - easy way to kill clock

 

Doing any of those likely helps win the game.  Doing 2 of those pretty much guarantees the win.  Doing all 3 would likely have allowed Detroit no offensive plays at all or would have made them burn all of their timeouts and lessened their chance of moving the ball down the field.

 

 

[Camio]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I am very thankful that you're not managing the Colts clock.

 

Lions sure are thankful he isnt.

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

So not firing him means we won't get the top pick? If he's as bad as you guys say we will be the worst team with or without him. And we can just fire him at the end of the season if that is the case.

Ehh 8-8 won't get us the top pass rusher next year 

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, Camio said:

 

If you think time was an issue when the Colts had the ball late in the 4th, then we cant help you.

 

You're the hilarious one, sorry.

 

If we do not get that touchdown then we are forced to try to get the first down. 

 

That would have changed everything.

 

You guys think touchdowns just fall off trees. That the hilarious thing about this thread.

 

Thank God you all only exist on message boards. We would be in serious trouble if any of you ever had an opportunity to make a decision that mattered.

[our_dbs_rock]

6 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

How many of you would be crying if we ran the clock out and did not score?

 

You guys are freaking hilarious. 

 

Seriously.  1:15 in the redzone is a ridiculous amount of time even without any timeouts.  TIME WAS NEVER AN ISSUE FOR THE COLTS.  A lot of teams can move the ball 80 yards down the field with 1:15 and multiple TOs.  It was 12 yards.  They didn't have to drain the play clock to 1 second before snapping the ball, but they also didn't need hurry up and call a time out.  There would have been a bigger chance for a turnover on downs than the clock running out.

[our_dbs_rock]

3 minutes ago, Aces101 said:

Kneel down - NO WAY

 

Here's how the Colts could have milked clock time:

 

not call a dumb timeout with 1:00 plus on the clock and on the opponent's 12 or 13 yard line - easy way to kill clock

 

working 15-20 seconds off the clock following the booth review - easy way to kill clock

 

When kicking off from the 50 yard line, just have McAfee Pop the kickoff high or Squibb kick it inside the 10 yard line, force a return, and tackle inside the 15 yard line - easy way to kill clock

 

Doing any of those likely helps win the game.  Doing 2 of those pretty much guarantees the win.  Doing all 3 would likely have allowed Detroit no offensive plays at all or would have made them burn all of their timeouts and lessened their chance of moving the ball down the field.

 

 

 

 

What part of the game did you watch that lead you to believe they could tackle.

[Camio]

6 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

If we do not get that touchdown then we are forced to try to get the first down. 

 

That would have changed everything.

 

You guys think touchdowns just fall off trees. That the hilarious thing about this thread.

 

Thank God you all only exist on message boards. We would be in serious trouble if any of you ever had an opportunity to make a decision that mattered.

 

Honestly, you have no idea what clock management is about.

 

Cadlwell and Reid are notorious for being bad at it. Pagano is doing his team to join them. He'll get critized this week for that bad call. At that point, you'll likely think the ones critizing him (medias) dont have a clue too.

 

Pagano messed up, like it or not. That situation was extremely simple, the Colts were not rushed, there was ample time to make the correct decision.

 

There's no reason for him to mess up like this in that situation.

 

That was pretty much as bad as the Caldwell TO vs the Jets in the playoffs several years ago.

[BlueShoe]

Just now, our_dbs_rock said:

 

Seriously.  1:15 in the redzone is a ridiculous amount of time even without any timeouts.  TIME WAS NEVER AN ISSUE FOR THE COLTS.  A lot of teams can move the ball 80 yards down the field with 1:15 and multiple TOs.  It was 12 yards.  They didn't have to drain the play clock to 1 second before snapping the ball, but they also didn't need hurry up and call a time out.

 

Did we have the lead?

 

No we did not.

 

Was it goal to goal?

 

No it was not. We could have still got another first down.

 

Time and the amount of plays we could run were both an issue.

 

If we got a first down then that would have given us 4 more plays, and I am sure we would have liked to use at least one of them to run the ball up the middle.

[threeflight]

6 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

If we do not get that touchdown then we are forced to try to get the first down. 

 

That would have changed everything.

 

You guys think touchdowns just fall off trees. That the hilarious thing about this thread.

 

Thank God you all only exist on message boards. We would be in serious trouble if any of you ever had an opportunity to make a decision that mattered.

I don't understand, like seriously I am at a total loss, why you think time is an issue when an offense has the ball on an opponents 12 yard like with 1:15 left and TIME OUTS left. 

 

I am literally dumbfounded that anyone who follows football thinks that that is not enough time to score without rushing.