That last time out (Pagano Clock Management)... {[Merge]}

[colts8718]

15 minutes ago, Camio said:

Pagano and Caldwell, 2 HCs the Colts have had who dont have a single clue how clock management works. This reminded me of the TO vs the Jets in the playoffs several years ago.

Must be something in the water 

[ColtsLegacy]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

im not saying it was the best TO ever called, but i can see why they did it

 

the offense was out running around all over the field and they probably needed to get their act together. 

 

Lmao, and allow the defense that's getting it's butt kicked all down the field to regroup? Yeah, that makes total sense. Fantastic TO.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

16 minutes ago, hawkeyes said:

Guess we are looking at a 6-10 season - we made Stafford look like a HOF QB!

He might end up being one regardless. Legit 

[hawkeyes]

Was totally confused why we kicked it into the endzone from the 50 .... should have popped it up high and tried to pin them inside the 10.  Not sure it would have mattered our D made Stafford look like the best QB in the league.

 

 

[threeflight]

1 minute ago, NorthernBlue said:

If they wanted to call the TO to regroup, wouldn't you want to wait till the play clock is all the way down and waste as much time as possible? I mean they were at like the 10. Time was not an issue.

Exactly.  I am not sure how people don't understand this.

 

As a coach, you need to give your team the best chance to win.  Pagano could have done that by giving the Lions less time to drive down the field to kick the winning fg.

 

He failed.

[Camio]

2 minutes ago, colts8718 said:

Must be something in the water 

 

Bring back Dungy, meh.

 

Or, Mora! At least it was good post-game ;)

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Lmao, and allow the defense that's getting it's butt kicked all down the field regroup?

no our offense.  there was no guarantee that we score at all there. 

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I freaking understand but it's not like it was an automatic touchdown. Chuck's probably kicking himself but firing him isn't going to make anything better.

I beg to differ 

[threeflight]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

im not saying it was the best TO ever called, but i can see why they did it

 

the offense was out running around all over the field and they probably needed to get their act together. 

Ok.....so why not run 30 seconds off the clock first and then call a timeout?

 

No offense, but I feel like I am talking to brain dead people here.  This is easy football 101.

[ColtsLegacy]

The TO was not made in a vacuum. It's the coaches job to take into account other factors. In a perfect world, where your defense is respectable, that TO is not much of an issue. But, in a world where your defense couldn't stop a girls peewee squad, you have to run the clock down as much as possible in that situation. It was a horrible TO and horrible clock management.

 

I thought for sure the TO was by the Lions to save some time for their offense, which I'm sure Caldwell was about to do. But, no worries, Jim, Chuck will give you an extra TO.

[Willbm]

Been following colts for 20+ years and have never posted anything until now.  What Pagano did to sabatoge his team is disgusting.  I watched the last two minutes and thought it was a graphic error on Fox that the colts called timeout with 1:15 left and then to not let the play clock run down to zero after the review is unthinkable.  All Pagano had to do was let Caldwell do what he does best and drain the clock.  Didn't think it was possible to manage the game worse than Caldwell but it happened today.  Can't fire him after new contract, but Grigson and Irsay need to do something to hold him accountable with a fine or suspension or something.  Can't happen on opening day at home!   

[snkdy]

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, threeflight said:

Ok.....so why not run 30 seconds off the clock first and then call a timeout?

 

No offense, but I feel like I am talking to brain dead people here.  This is easy football 101.

I actually agree with you on this one. We should've tried to leave as little time on clock as possible and score. I felt like we would score but our Defense sucks!

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Ok.....so why not run 30 seconds off the clock first and then call a timeout?

 

No offense, but I feel like I am talking to brain dead people here.  This is easy football 101.

• it was a little early, but the lions only needed like 10 seconds to get in range anyway

 

we risk running out of time on offense if we do what you said

 

maybe i feel like you're brain dead

 

[Camio]

1 minute ago, ColtsLegacy said:

The TO was not made in a vacuum. It's the coaches job to take into account other factors. In a perfect world where your defense is respectable, that TO is not much of an issue, but in a world where your defense couldn't stop a girls peewee squad, you have to run the clock down as much as possible in that situation. It was a horrible TO and horrible clock management,

 

Even if you got a good D, why would you not run the clock out before taking a TO in the situation?

 

Giving the ball back to the opposing team with more time on the clock than needed is bad coaching.

[indy1888]

Horrible timeout and i even said at the time it would cost them.  Unfortunately, it is not surprising with Pagano.  Irsay may have to have another chat with him...lol.

[threeflight]

1 minute ago, snkdy said:

 

 

So take it after running 30 seconds off the clock.

[RockThatBlue]

24 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

No, it did not.  A horrible start to the first half, tons of injuries, and bad execution.  That one timeout did not cost us the game today.  The Lions had 3 timeouts of their own, so they could have controlled the clock to their liking even if we didn't call the timeout

Bingo

 

 

Being down 21-3 at one point is what cost us the game. If the offense didn't wait so long to wake up, we probably win.

[aaron11]

we could have even gotten another first down.  you have to play to score there, not worry about the defense first

[threeflight]

And Luck should not go without blame here.  He is the one who snapped the ball 2 seconds after the review.

 

He could have run off 25 seconds.

[VaAllDay757]

3 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

 

See that's just stupid what was wrong with the personnel at first? Let luck do his thing he was handling it before the timeout smh

[dgambill]

Should have had some more poise to let Andrew control the clock down there. It wasn't great clock management but a decimated defense and a poor first half did us no favors. At least the offense came alive there are positives to take. Our TEs played well and Dorsett and Moncrief have arrived. Protect luck and get gore going we are going to be scary good on offense. I will wait to judge the defense until they get healthy (if ever).

[aaron11]

that really wasnt the game

 

the lions still had 3 TOs themselves and they didnt even need them

[21isSuperman]

4 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Ok.....so why not run 30 seconds off the clock first and then call a timeout?

 

No offense, but I feel like I am talking to brain dead people here.  This is easy football 101.

It's no guarantee that you score.  You run the clock down to 30 seconds, then take your last time out.  You try a couple throws and you don't get in and it's over.  You try running the ball and don't get in and the clock is ticking.  I'm not saying I love the timeout call, but it isn't as bad as people make it seem.  It wasn't the only thing that cost us the game today

[colts8718]

2 minutes ago, Camio said:

 

Bring back Dungy, meh.

 

Or, Mora! At least it was good post-game ;)

That D was hard to watch it might be one of the worse D in Colts history never understood why Irsay rehired these clowns never liked them even when we where winning going to be a long year sad to say GO COLTS.We will never get back to Colt football with the Pagano and Grigson circus

[Camio]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

• it was a little early, but the lions only needed like 10 seconds to get in range anyway

 

we risk running out of time on offense if we do what you said

 

maybe i feel like you're brain dead

 

 

I hope you dont feel like he's brain dead because what is being said in this thread is clock management 101. If anything, by letting the clock run before taking the TO, 2 things happen:

 

-clock runs down by 35 secs or so, so you have a good chance to score with under 15 seconds left

-you force the Lions to waste a TO to keep time on the clock

[Willbm]

3 minutes ago, snkdy said:

 

 

You can do that after you run another 20 seconds off the clock.  Then you need to run another 20 seconds after the review.  You either force Caldwell to burn his timeouts (which he is also inept and wouldn't) or there would be 20 seconds left and the colts would be a good shape.

[ColtsLegacy]

6 minutes ago, Camio said:

 

Even if you got a good D, why would you not run the clock out before taking a TO in the situation?

 

Giving the ball back to the opposing team with more time on the clock than needed is bad coaching.

 

Settle down, champ, I'm on your side. I agree with that notion. Run the clock down as much as you can without risking your ability to score. It's just that it wouldn't have been much of an issue if there was any semblance of a defense for the Colts. But, the Colts had no defense, so it was a really stupid call.

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, Camio said:

 

I hope you dont feel like he's brain dead because what is being said in this thread is clock management 101. If anything, by letting the clock run before taking the TO, 2 things happen:

 

-clock runs down by 35 secs or so, so you have a good chance to score with under 15 seconds left

-you force the Lions to waste a TO to keep time on the clock

and then you run out of time on offense

 

the lions were not going to call TO.  they were playing to win the game on defense.

[ColtsLegacy]

5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

that really wasnt the game

 

the lions still had 3 TOs themselves and they didnt even need them

 

Really? It seems to me they used all 3 of them to get into FG range. Part of the reason they still had all 3 in the first place is because Pags took one for them on the Colts final drive.

 

If Colts score with <15 seconds left, Colts win. It wasn't the only reason the Colts lost, but it was the final blow.

[Dustin]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

and then you run out of time on offense

 

the lions were not going to call TO.  they were playing to win the game on defense.

 

It would have taken a series of plays of disasterous proportions to run out 1:15 seconds of game time with 12 yards to go.

[BlueShoe]

40 minutes ago, threeflight said:

1:15 left.  You DO NOT NEED to call timeout there.  Why let a Lions offense that has been killing a hurt Colts Defense all day have another shot?  Either win it at the end or not  But do not leave them any time to drive down the field for a winning FG?

 

He is just not a smart coach.  Never has been.  A Harbaugh or a Bellichick is always thinking AHEAD.  Pagano panics and never thinks at all.

 

Serious.  People can poo poo this all they want, but that single time out saved the lions 35 seconds, and the game.

 

For that alone he needs to be fired. 

 

We should be able to hold a team from going 40 yards with only 37 seconds left.

 

That is not on Pagano. There was no guarantee we would score. It's not like we could run the clock and kick a field goal.

 

I don't agree with you.

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Really? It seems to me they used all 3 of them to get into FG range. Part of the reason they still had all 3 in the first place is because Pags took one for them on the Colts final drive.

they didnt need all three.  they wasted a play before the kick, and there was still time left when they kicked it

 

 

[Rally5]

I don't see much mention of it wasn't a goal to go situation.  Meaning, a first down at the two was in play, that means if you don't get the TD but you do get the first down you want enough time to use all your shots at the end zone.  I get the timeout out arguement, that could go either way to me.  What I don't get is not doing a pooch kick to the 1 yrd line from the fifty and making them start deep and burn more time.  We simply can't stop the passing game, we need pressure or a sack etc....you guys get it.   All said time management and offense isn't the biggest issue when you give up 39 at home.  

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

It would have taken a series of plays of disasterous proportions to run out 1:15 seconds of game time with 12 yards to go.

not really.  we could have even gotten a first down

[threeflight]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

We should be able to hold a team from going 40 yards with only 37 seconds left.

 

That is not on Pagano. There was no guarantee we would score. It's not like we could run the clock and kick a field goal.

 

I don't agree with you.

I don't care what we SHOULD be able to do.  I am only concerned about what we CAN do.

 

And we ALL COULD SEE that the Colts D could not stop anyone all game.

 

So why put the game in the hands of the Defense?  It made NO SENSE.

[ColtsLegacy]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

they didnt need all three.  they wasted a play before the kick, and there was still time left when they kicked it

 

t

 

They had zero timeouts during that "wasted play". Yes, they needed all 3. And, they would have been working with less time and, likely, less timeouts had the Colts managed the clock better on the final drive.

[Dustin]

Just now, aaron11 said:

not really.  we could even gotten a first down

 

1:15 is an eternity in the redzone. Basically every pass is going to the endzone that close.

[BlueShoe]

Just now, threeflight said:

I don't care what we SHOULD be able to do.  I am only concerned about what we CAN do.

 

And we ALL COULD SEE that the Colts D could not stop anyone all game.

 

So why put the game in the hands of the Defense?  It made NO SENSE.

 

WE HAD NO GUARANTEE OF SCORING!!!

 

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

[Camio]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

and then you run out of time on offense

 

the lions were not going to call TO.  they were playing to win the game on defense.

 

Why would the Colts run out of time on offense? They scored with ton of time left.

 

Btw, most NFL HCs in place of Caldwell would've called a TO in that circumstance had the Colts ran the clock to hope that if the opposing team score, you have more time left on the clock.

 

Time wasnt an issue for the Colts. Time was an issue for the Lions. Pagano's mistake helped them.

 

Dont believe me? Watch NFL weekly and you'll see these types of situations arise all the time. There's a reason some HCs have a reputation as bad clock management HCs. Caldwell and Reid are 2 notorious ones.

 

I wont even bother with Pagano. I'm not even mad about the loss btw. Colts had troubles vs the Lions, so imagine the rest of the season ;)

 

I dont think the Colts would still have all these flaws with say, Arians as HC.