Can Chud bring "back" the EXPLOSIVE offense....

[bluephantom87]

I for one miss the glory days of the Manning lead offense. Always ranked at or near the top of the league; MOST opposing defenses dreaded facing the quick strike no huddle offense that was never out of a ballgame especially if Peyton had the ball last. Jumping out on teams EARLY helped the small but speedy Colt defense under Dungy get after opposing qbs. Only the teams that had a franchise qb, utilized the 3-4 scheme on defense or could simply just pound the ball against the small Colt defense came away with wins. (Pats, Steelers and Chargers) Now as far as the current Luck led teams I feel the SLOW starts are the direct result of Chuck's overall gameplan in trying to establish the run early wasting critical downs behind a subpar o-line leading to many 3 and outs while falling behind on the scoreboard. I've seen way too many 3rd and longs with this offense. Even when Luck's stat line shows big numbers it's mostly in comeback efforts when the Colts have no choice but to go hurry up and chunk the ball all over the place. This defense is NOT strong enough talent wise to play games close to the vest. The o-line is STILL suspect and Irsay even voiced his concerns a few days ago but for me how much improvement can you have with only one NEW player NOT from the o-line roster last year starting?

Of course there needs to be a balance in order to help Luck but MIX up the playcalling! Stay away from the run up the middle on nearly EVERY 1st or 2nd down. Utilize some hurry up  in the 1st half as a change of pace. Get the ball into receivers' hands on early downs instead of 3rd and longs. I hope to see more explosive plays from this offense with Luck at the helm because they will need it....

[MB-ColtsFan]

I think we require starting off with some short stuff so Andrew can get some confidence and some rythem.  I don't think we yet have the protection needed to have an explosive offense just yet, though I do also long for it.

I think that Chuck is the type of coach that would run the ball with a 10 point lead and not want to throw much at all.  Just my opinion, we never get leads like that, lol.

I also agree that we need to mix it up starting drives.  Chud will have hopefully learned from Pep's failures.  We shall see.

[aaron11]

peyton was probably the best player ever when it came to making guys around him better. 

 

that said, if the line holds up then we could have a great offense right not.  this is less about chuds play calling and more about the oline in general

[twfish]

I think having chud alone calling the plays will make the offense alone better. I think he adjusts to what the defense is showing and will mix it up far better. I hated knowing exactly what play pep was running a majority of the time

[NewColtsFan]

 

CAN Chud bring back an explosive offense?       Yes.

 

Will he?      I think.......    no.

 

I"ll explain.     It will do the Colts no good to throws bombs to Hilton, Moncrief and Dorsett for TDs, if all it means is our offense is back out on the field.

 

I think Chud is going to protect our defense by trying for longer drives.    I think Chud will try to protect Luck and the offensive line by getting the ball out of his hands as soon as possible.      I'd take an 8-10 play drive over a 3-5 play drive any day.      

 

We want to eat the clock as much as we can.     We want to keep the defense off the field as much as we can.   We want to protect Luck and the o-line as much as we can.      You can do all that with an offense that isn't explosive,   but is instead consistent and steady.     

 

I'm sure we'll throw deep from time to time.     But,  I don't think we want to be thought of as "explosive"....   it's not in our interest if you see the Big Picture.

 

That's the view from 1,800 miles away.....

 

[SP_21]

No matter what Chud does someone will armchair quarterback him.

 

If we run the ball to try to establish our ground game. "Why aren't we utilizing our WRs"

 

If we come out with a lot of passes. " we can't expect Luck to carry the offense" "our offense is too predictable" etc. 

 

Chud, Pagano, and the whole Colts organization can't do anything without someone complaining. 

 

No offense to the OP. This isn't directed at you, just thinking out loud. 

[twfish]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

CAN Chud bring back an explosive offense?       Yes.

 

Will he?      I think.......    no.

 

I"ll explain.     It will do the Colts no good to throws bombs to Hilton, Moncrief and Dorsett for TDs, if all it means is our offense is back out on the field.

 

I think Chud is going to protect our defense by trying for longer drives.    I think Chud will try to protect Luck and the offensive line by getting the ball out of his hands as soon as possible.      I'd take an 8-10 play drive over a 3-5 play drive any day.      

 

We want to eat the clock as much as we can.     We want to keep the defense off the field as much as we can.   We want to protect Luck and the o-line as much as we can.      You can do all that with an offense that isn't explosive,   but is instead consistent and steady.     

 

I'm sure we'll throw deep from time to time.     But,  I don't think we want to be thought of as "explosive"....   it's not in our interest if you see the Big Picture.

 

That's the view from 1,800 miles away.....

 

I think we have diffrent views of "explosiveness". When I think of explosive I think of being able to take it to the house at any point in time whether it be using a short pass or a screen pass or crossing routes, being able to expose a defense. Not so much as a vertical offense

[bradgt04]

To answer the question...I hope so lol.  I like chuck and love that the players would die for the man.  But I've noticed since 2013 that we always came out slow or stalled against good teams.  And played to the level of bad/sub-par teams.  If that is the case this year then I will be 100% convinced that he is not a very good coach.  Then again the argument can be made that he didn't have too much control over the things you'd expect a coach to have control over.  Hopefully this year we will see some explosiveness  

[BOTT]

You guys have made me do the impossible.....hate Peyton manning.

[BOTT]

To answer the question...yes 

[Gavin]

The idea should be to get Luck into the flow of the game first and comfortable. Taking what the defense gives you early and often then later on chances for deep shots will be there. Efficiency will be key. we have players that are explosive. We also need to get Allen involved over the middle of the field which in turn will force Linebackers to have to drop back and open up running lanes. As well as get Luck in on some QB roll outs to horizontally move the LOS and get LB's flowing. Drive Blocking again and again wont work consistently. We don't have those kind of players. Zone runs. Counter runs. If we just run down hill we will just get the same result we have been getting the last 4 seasons. 2-3 yards at a time followed by a 3-4 yard loss

 

Also what you saw last year with Chud was not his actual offense but he did show his ability to adjust to the QB talent he had. Chuds more vertical passing

[ReMeDy]

It's about consistency. Lately, we've lost that. Peyton always had Jeff Saturday, Howard Mudd, Tom Moore, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and for the most part Tony Dungy and various other names that consistently played for us numerous seasons.

Currently, we need to get back to establishing that consistency, which is why I was supportive of Jim Irsay retaining Chuck Pagano and Grigson -- just look at the 49'ers situation when they fired Jim Harbaugh despite coming off a Superbowl appearance -- we could be doing a LOT worse.

[Coltfreak]

He better,    with all the complaining about Pep and wanting Chud to take over this better be the difference between night and day. This better be the best offense we have had because this  is the most offensive talent that has been here since Luck got here, the best oline and you all got what you want  Fleener gone and Allen is the main guy at TE.

 

If not......

 

[BOTT]

18 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

He better,    with all the complaining about Pep and wanting Chud to take over this better be the difference between night and day. This better be the best offense we have had because this  is the most offensive talent that has been here since Luck got here, the best oline and you all got what you want  Fleener gone and Allen is the main guy at TE.

 

If not......

 

The best Oline?  Maybe 

[BOTT]

40 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

It's about consistency. Lately, we've lost that. Peyton always had Jeff Saturday, Howard Mudd, Tom Moore, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and for the most part Tony Dungy and various other names that consistently played for us numerous seasons.

Currently, we need to get back to establishing that consistency, which is why I was supportive of Jim Irsay retaining Chuck Pagano and Grigson -- just look at the 49'ers situation when they fired Jim Harbaugh despite coming off a Superbowl appearance -- we could be doing a LOT worse.

Sounds like it's about good players and good coaching.  I wouldn't have kept Arians or Pep for the sake of consistency.

[akcolt]

3 hours ago, twfish said:

I think having chud alone calling the plays will make the offense alone better. I think he adjusts to what the defense is showing and will mix it up far better. I hated knowing exactly what play pep was running a majority of the time

Chud and we reportedly have an NFL caliber C now. If Kelly lives up to the hype that alone will make the OL better.

 

I'm a little perplexed about how thin we are when the interior was our focus. The only back ups who look ready for Sunday football are Harrison and Haeg. I am surprised we didn't bring anybody in. Starters look the same just slide Good in to RG. 

[GoColts8818]

From what I have heard about Chud he's more dink and dunk than long bombs kind of guy.  So I don't think he will make the offense explosive like it was under Arains.  I am also not really concerned if it is.  I am more concerned on if it's effective again,. You still get six points for a TD rather it be a one play 75 yard drive or a 14 play 75 yard drive.  

 

I will ill say the one major plus side to dinking and dunking is that you can hide the defense with long offensive drives.  Manning killed teams doing this over his career.

[bluephantom87]

5 hours ago, twfish said:

I think we have diffrent views of "explosiveness". When I think of explosive I think of being able to take it to the house at any point in time whether it be using a short pass or a screen pass or crossing routes, being able to expose a defense. Not so much as a vertical offense

This is what I'm leaning more toward. I totally understand NewColtsFan's breakdown and what the Colts are TRYING to do but at the same time this offense NEEDS to be able to SCORE points. They have the talent IF utilized to dictate to opposing defenses whether it be through the QUICK passing game mixed in with some scattered runs (ala the HATED Pats) to shred opposing defenses. Limiting yourself on offense by TRYING to establish the run up the middle behind a poor line in order to PROTECT a subpar defense sounds good but with THIS team leads to stalled drives, slow starts, penalties and low points on the scoreboard early.

 

I think the staff is MORE focused on time possession than scoring points thus the dogfight games against subpar teams. At the end of the day that scoreboard is what matters. How many games in the past under Manning did the opposing team DOMINATE the time of possession only to come up short. You can STILL be in ATTACK mode WHILE protecting Luck in the process by HELPING the subpar o-line and the lackluster running attack by going to the short passing game, showing multiple formations, being able to strike QUICKLY when PRESENTED and more than anything by MIXING up that playcalling and pace leading to MORE scoring opportunities. That in turn will help this defense which by no means is a juggernaut but decent enough to hold onto some LEADS if given the chance.

 

On a side note that headhunting kid Morrison SHOULD be starting opposite D Jackson PERIOD!!! I know he will make some rookie mistakes BUT his upside is HUGE and this defense needs to start fielding some fear factor type of guys. Josh McNary is cool on special teams but as an nfl lb is average at best. Solid but NOT a difference maker or impact player. The time is now to steer away from the same ol same ol...

 

[Gavin]

28 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

From what I have heard about Chud he's more dink and dunk than long bombs kind of guy.  So I don't think he will make the offense explosive like it was under Arains.  I am also not really concerned if it is.  I am more concerned on if it's effective again,. You still get six points for a TD rather it be a one play 75 yard drive or a 14 play 75 yard drive.  

 

I will ill say the one major plus side to dinking and dunking is that you can hide the defense with long offensive drives.  Manning killed teams doing this over his career.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/1/15/7551785/rob-chudzinski-49ers-offensive-coordinator-candidate-scouting-report

 

 

I actually forced myself to watch some Browns games when he was HC. Doesn't necessarily mean he will stick with the vertical passing game but he likes it. With that said he did show flexibility to adjust to talent around him last year. So I'm hoping for some balanced passing

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

52 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

From what I have heard about Chud he's more dink and dunk than long bombs kind of guy.  So I don't think he will make the offense explosive like it was under Arains.  I am also not really concerned if it is.  I am more concerned on if it's effective again,. You still get six points for a TD rather it be a one play 75 yard drive or a 14 play 75 yard drive.  

 

I will ill say the one major plus side to dinking and dunking is that you can hide the defense with long offensive drives.  Manning killed teams doing this over his career.

Chud was stuck with Pep Hamiltons offense last season this year will be much better not Arians long ball or Peps less than impressive rookie mishaps .

 

Chud needs the dink& dunk it will help a questionable O-line & led to the big plays , I hope our running game improves that would help alot but it remains to be seen we have learned very little so far in the preseason & i look forward to sunday hopefully with out a bunch of flags I saw some good things decent drives but the flags really stalled & or wiped out some points .

[coltsfeva]

The passing game can be as good as the Manning era, because Luck is accurate and the receivers are good route runners and are pretty sure-handed. But Peyton had a decent run game to work with, so that play-action could work (which was his strength). This is a key element that the current team is missing, so far.

 

Given the overall speed of the starting receivers, the offense can stretch the field, (provided Andrew gets enough time). 

 I like the fact that they were effective in the preseason with screens and different plays to get a guy open;        (the play selection seemed to be a little more creative than in the past).

What's been most concerning in the preseason, is the inability to finish drives and lack of run game. I hope these things change.

Ultimately, when an offense can "do it all", defenses are guessing.
 

[CoachLite]

12 hours ago, SP_21 said:

No matter what Chud does someone will armchair quarterback him.

 

If we run the ball to try to establish our ground game. "Why aren't we utilizing our WRs"

 

If we come out with a lot of passes. " we can't expect Luck to carry the offense" "our offense is too predictable" etc. 

 

Chud, Pagano, and the whole Colts organization can't do anything without someone complaining. 

 

No offense to the OP. This isn't directed at you, just thinking out loud. 

Absolutely correct! But winning is the answer to all criticisms.

[throwing BBZ]

7 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

From what I have heard about Chud he's more dink and dunk than long bombs kind of guy.  So I don't think he will make the offense explosive like it was under Arains.  I am also not really concerned if it is.  I am more concerned on if it's effective again,. You still get six points for a TD rather it be a one play 75 yard drive or a 14 play 75 yard drive.  

 

I will ill say the one major plus side to dinking and dunking is that you can hide the defense with long offensive drives.  Manning killed teams doing this over his career.

 

 Chud is going to RUN the ___ ball close to 50% of the time as long as Lucky can Execute
Chuds ball control passing game.
 

 Yet i remember our defenses getting killed year in and year out being on the field because Manning wanted to win with his passing & MVP stats, and NOT running the ball to protect his D. My absolute least favorite thing about him!

[Valpo2004]

7 hours ago, Gavin said:

http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/1/15/7551785/rob-chudzinski-49ers-offensive-coordinator-candidate-scouting-report

 

 

I actually forced myself to watch some Browns games when he was HC. Doesn't necessarily mean he will stick with the vertical passing game but he likes it. With that said he did show flexibility to adjust to talent around him last year. So I'm hoping for some balanced passing

 

As long as he can balance the vertical offense with other types of offense then I'm happy.  

 

Last year it felt like Pep's offense was all or nothing on the vertical offense.  And then Luck was destroyed by the blitz over and over and over again.

[krunk]

8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

From what I have heard about Chud he's more dink and dunk than long bombs kind of guy.  So I don't think he will make the offense explosive like it was under Arains.  I am also not really concerned if it is.  I am more concerned on if it's effective again,. You still get six points for a TD rather it be a one play 75 yard drive or a 14 play 75 yard drive.  

 

I will ill say the one major plus side to dinking and dunking is that you can hide the defense with long offensive drives.  Manning killed teams doing this over his career.

He learned under Norv Turner. Air Coryal is a vertical passing attack. Chud however has included plenty of crossing routes, screens, quick check downs for the QB to utilize if Vertical options are taken away. The great thing about the screens, crossing routes, and some of the quick check downs hes implemented is they all allow for nice gains on RAC.

[tikyle]

It's not the offense.  It's the overall coaching philosophy.  As OP said the HC wanted to establish the run and eat clock.  Pep and then Chud obliged.  The offense was stagnant and sputtered.  In the 2nd half when we were down, Pep/Chud opened it up and let Luck chuck it around.  The offense was explosive by necessity during those parts of the game.  So was it the offense or the overall philosophy?

[CoachLite]

6 hours ago, tikyle said:

It's not the offense.  It's the overall coaching philosophy.  As OP said the HC wanted to establish the run and eat clock.  Pep and then Chud obliged.  The offense was stagnant and sputtered.  In the 2nd half when we were down, Pep/Chud opened it up and let Luck chuck it around.  The offense was explosive by necessity during those parts of the game.  So was it the offense or the overall philosophy?

Compare ^^this with Denver's confidence in letting Siemians play his natural game last night against the Panthers throughout the game. Yes, he threw a couple of picks and had a couple of batted balls. If you don't have confidence in the overall ability of the team to strategically execute a gameplan, you aren't going to be successful. I don't think Pagano has ever had confidence in the players (probably due to the conflict with Grigson), creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of defeat. Has this changed? We'll see, but I'm skeptical.

[bluephantom87]

9 hours ago, tikyle said:

It's not the offense.  It's the overall coaching philosophy.  As OP said the HC wanted to establish the run and eat clock.  Pep and then Chud obliged.  The offense was stagnant and sputtered.  In the 2nd half when we were down, Pep/Chud opened it up and let Luck chuck it around.  The offense was explosive by necessity during those parts of the game.  So was it the offense or the overall philosophy?

This... Oh well at the end of the day I can't wait for Sunday to arrive! NOBODY is talking about the Colts and I like it that way. Many so called "experts" feel they are on the DECLINE already and will finish 3rd in the south. That's amazing in itself considering they were the SB favorite just last year!!!  

[BOTT]

10 hours ago, tikyle said:

It's not the offense.  It's the overall coaching philosophy.  As OP said the HC wanted to establish the run and eat clock.  Pep and then Chud obliged.  The offense was stagnant and sputtered.  In the 2nd half when we were down, Pep/Chud opened it up and let Luck chuck it around.  The offense was explosive by necessity during those parts of the game.  So was it the offense or the overall philosophy?

What was Chud supposed to do, let the gunslinger Matt Hasselbeck toss it around all game?

 

i don't like Chuck, but don't blame him for Pep being a horrible OC.  Well, I guess you can blame him for the hire...

[Coltfreak]

20 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

From what I have heard about Chud he's more dink and dunk than long bombs kind of guy.  So I don't think he will make the offense explosive like it was under Arains.  I am also not really concerned if it is.  I am more concerned on if it's effective again,. You still get six points for a TD rather it be a one play 75 yard drive or a 14 play 75 yard drive.  

 

I will ill say the one major plus side to dinking and dunking is that you can hide the defense with long offensive drives.  Manning killed teams doing this over his career.

Just the opposite of dink and dunk.  This will be Arians type offense   But chuck will force more running 

 

i think ink it will be interesting but not what most on here expect 

[BOTT]

8 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Just the opposite of dink and dunk.  This will be Arians type offense   But chuck will force more running 

 

i think ink it will be interesting but not what most on here expect 

Being a more vertical offense doesn't mean it's like Bruce Arians.

[oldunclemark]

9 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Just the opposite of dink and dunk.  This will be Arians type offense   But chuck will force more running 

 

i think ink it will be interesting but not what most on here expect 

I hope you're right...CF...

..we're built with a strong-armed QB and receivers with speed...we play indoors

We fight ourselves when we try to do possession passes and emphasize running the ball..

..at home? against teams like the Lions?

 

We can spread the field so wide it will be like having a college football game inside a NASCAR track....

Few teams in the NFL can cover our guys all day

[tikyle]

On September 9, 2016 at 11:08 PM, BOTT said:

What was Chud supposed to do, let the gunslinger Matt Hasselbeck toss it around all game?

 

i don't like Chuck, but don't blame him for Pep being a horrible OC.  Well, I guess you can blame him for the hire...

Chud's early game offense looks just like Pep's.  You were saying?

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Looks like he made some explosive diarrhea all on the field so far lol. 

[James]

Yes. The offense looks pathetic so far.

[Narcosys]

You have your answer. 

[BOTT]

5 hours ago, tikyle said:

Chud's early game offense looks just like Pep's.  You were saying?

Yeah, it looked pretty bad.......

[AZColt11]

I would say after knocking off some early rust, yeah, he restored it.  BUT.....some things he cannot fix alone, and that is a generally poor running game.  That will take some more oxes on the OL.  And a couple more drafts.  But the passing game looks fine.  I am still wondering what it will look like vs. a good defense though.  That we have yet to see.

[bluephantom87]

6 hours ago, tikyle said:

Chud's early game offense looks just like Pep's.

Post Lion game... No matter who's at the helm as oc for the Colts it will be the same because Chuck's philosophy in the OVERALL game plan will ALWAYS be to come out and ESTABLISH the run FIRST leading to the slow starts by LIMITING their offensive capabilities. As I said in another post Chuck is not directly calling the offensive plays BUT he has input as the hc for the general direction of the team. In the last few years falling behind 14 to 20 pts has become the norm now and I hope this EXPERIMENT with Chuck is over after year 5.

 

On to Chud.. like Pep before him Chud put the ball in Luck's hands after falling behind big BUT that's where the similarities ended. Unlike Pep what I saw was a seasoned nfl oc who did not abandon the run but sprinkled some in with success while Luck started shredding the Lion defense with the passing game. Using a nice mix of play calling with short passes as well as taking shots downfield the offense had a nice flow instead of just having Luck stand in the pocket holding onto the ball while taking a beating looking for the long ball under Pep. Going forward with this awful injured defense this offense can't afford the slow starts even against bad teams SO the goal should be to start fast and use the pass to setup the run.

 

    

[BOTT]

People just couldn't resist speaking too soon lol