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Joey bosa


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4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yeah...and those consistant ways of operating are reasons why many players have had issues with SD in the past. Not just the contract issues but how the organization is ran in general. Yes some teams don't pay out guarantees right away but over time most top 5 picks have a track record of no offset language and getting their money paid immediately. SD inflexibility makes them look bad....and a team that looks cheap in signing their premier pass rush top draft pick and also has generally failed horribly in getting a new stadium...well it makes the Chargers ownership look bad. No matter what I think of Bosa it's hard to not understand his frustration just like it wasn't difficult to understand why Eli maneuvered his way out of town...same reason elway did it here. Just my feelings.

 

Yeah, new management, and yet the Chargers continue to have these issues. After Eli, it was the standoff with Vincent Jackson and Marty McNeil, and now this with Bosa. It's gotta be the Spanos' family, and that's not surprising given their stadium situation and their tenuous relationship with the city.

 

That said, deferred bonus payments aren't uncommon. We just don't hear about them as fans because it's technical minutiae that doesn't affect salary cap accounting, so we don't care about it. Still, I think that in Year 6 of the new CBA, these rookie contracts ought to be a piece of cake, especially for top ten picks. Just give the guy what he's asking for, and move on. The most meaningful terms of the contract are already decided. Aside from cash flow considerations, I don't know why teams take so long to get rookie deals done.

 

Up until this season, the Colts were usually one of the last to get their draft class locked up.

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13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, new management, and yet the Chargers continue to have these issues. After Eli, it was the standoff with Vincent Jackson and Marty McNeil, and now this with Bosa. It's gotta be the Spanos' family, and that's not surprising given their stadium situation and their tenuous relationship with the city.

 

That said, deferred bonus payments aren't uncommon. We just don't hear about them as fans because it's technical minutiae that doesn't affect salary cap accounting, so we don't care about it. Still, I think that in Year 6 of the new CBA, these rookie contracts ought to be a piece of cake, especially for top ten picks. Just give the guy what he's asking for, and move on. The most meaningful terms of the contract are already decided. Aside from cash flow considerations, I don't know why teams take so long to get rookie deals done.

 

Up until this season, the Colts were usually one of the last to get their draft class locked up.

Yeah, when your a top 10 pick....especially a top 3 and the number 1 defensive pass rusher off the board...honestly there shouldn't be much negotiating. The colts often pick much later in the draft where there are typically at least some question marks. But even so I haven't seen us have issues on this level. Im all for having structure and rules but when your THIS inflexible it just doesn't speak well of an organization. If I'm a free agent I'm very cautious about going to an organization that is run that way. It makes getting an extension or heck even getting my family leave if needs be that much more troublesome. Top 3 picks shouldn't have to wait on their money nor be haggling over language in a contract especially for basically a clean proven commodity like Bosa. This isn't a guy with character concerns injury concerns or question marks.... This is the best pass rusher in the draft a corner stone piece for your team and you try to hardball negotiate the guy. To me this isn't the image you want to send to what you hope is your franchise player about how you will pay him down the line or incoming players if they sign or come there. We all know great players get special treatment. No matter what I think of Joeys skills they thought a ton of him. Why not pay him with the respect they felt in drafting him.

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You guys know how I feel about Joey Bosa, I wont use the word bust like I have before but I cant see him being any type of MAJOR impact player on the NFL level, I see Average at best. I just never have bought the hype. A lot of people agree with me as well. Everyone has their own opinions about certain players. Some think Leonard Floyd wont be any good for example which I think he will be. It's a wait and see game really with rookies. I wonder how long Bosa holds out?

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18 minutes ago, dgambill said:

This isn't a guy with character concerns injury concerns or question marks.... This is the best pass rusher in the draft a corner stone piece for your team and you try to hardball negotiate the guy

 

To the bolded, that's why I don't understand the player making a deal out of offset language.

 

As for the hardball negotiation, I don't know why the Chargers are insisting on the deferred payment, but it could be that they need to manage their cash carefully. 

 

Either way, it makes them look bad.

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To the bolded, that's why I don't understand the player making a deal out of offset language.

 

As for the hardball negotiation, I don't know why the Chargers are insisting on the deferred payment, but it could be that they need to manage their cash carefully. 

 

Either way, it makes them look bad.

I think it's more about the payments and to me it isn't even so much about this contract but just as much about his next contract to. He may be negotiating this contract now but he is laying the ground work for his next contract possibly with the team in 5 years and he isn't being treated how other top 5 draft players have been treated. To me it sets a precedent on how he will allow them to treat him down the road. He deserves no offset language. So even if he will probably not ever need it that's not an acceptable reason to put it in his contract on their part. It doesn't build trust with the relationship and I don't think thats a good way the organization should start out with him.

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On 8/8/2016 at 7:40 PM, Superman said:

As for the hardball negotiation, I don't know why the Chargers are insisting on the deferred payment, but it could be that they need to manage their cash carefully. 

 

Tom Telesco says it's because they want consistency between players contracts, whether it's Philips Rivers, the 85th draft pick, or Bosa.

 

http://www.mighty1090.com/2016/07/26/tom-telesco-on-why-joey-bosa-hasnt-signed-yet-and-what-hes-missing/

 

We all know there's not a lot to negotiate, what little there are are sticking points.  Word is, neither side is talking, and each side says the other needs to reach out first.   Could get ugly as training camp ends.

 

 

The result?  Bosa has lost valuable development opportunities and the ability to get in 'football' shape, which not the same as being fit.  This hurts his team and impacts his career, at least at this point.

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On 8/8/2016 at 6:32 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You guys know how I feel about Joey Bosa, I wont use the word bust like I have before but I cant see him being any type of MAJOR impact player on the NFL level, I see Average at best. I just never have bought the hype. A lot of people agree with me as well. Everyone has their own opinions about certain players. Some think Leonard Floyd wont be any good for example which I think he will be. It's a wait and see game really with rookies. I wonder how long Bosa holds out?

 

It certainly is not helping him that he was drafted by one of the AFC teams with the most dysfunctional managements. I don't blame him or his family at all for suggesting that they wished they would have pulled an Eli move. 

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22 minutes ago, Bogie said:

 

It certainly is not helping him that he was drafted by one of the AFC teams with the most dysfunctional managements. I don't blame him or his family at all for suggesting that they wished they would have pulled an Eli move. 

What he is doing I really don't have a problem with but I just don't think he will live up to his #3 pick. The Chargers management is wishy washy I will agree with that.

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On 8/1/2016 at 8:49 AM, lollygagger8 said:

I don't think Bosa is that good. I also think he was over drafted.

Clowney 2.0 IMO. The Bosa hype is basically the exact same the Clowney hype was. Clowney hasn't been remotely close to showing hes worth a #1 pick and I think in a few years people will say the same about Bosa being drafted 3rd.

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7 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Clowney 2.0 IMO. The Bosa hype is basically the exact same the Clowney hype was. Clowney hasn't been remotely close to showing hes worth a #1 pick and I think in a few years people will say the same about Bosa being drafted 3rd.

I agree 100%. If Bosa turns out to even be Good I will eat my words but I don't see it. I said the same thing about Clowney as well when he came out and have been right so far.

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5 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Clowney 2.0 IMO. The Bosa hype is basically the exact same the Clowney hype was. Clowney hasn't been remotely close to showing hes worth a #1 pick and I think in a few years people will say the same about Bosa being drafted 3rd.

Bosa doesnt have a fraction of the hype as Clowney

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17 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Tom Telesco says it's because they want consistency between players contracts, whether it's Philips Rivers, the 85th draft pick, or Bosa.

 

 

That's stupid, IMO. I think it's myopic, at best, to pretend that different players don't have different leverage in contract negotiations.

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On 8/11/2016 at 5:23 AM, BOTT said:

Bosa doesnt have a fraction of the hype as Clowney

Agreed. Clowney was looked at as potentially the best defensive prospect in a decade. Since that Michigan back's helmet flew off the narrative was written that Clowney was some sort of genetic super human specifically designed for football. Bosa wasn't hyped nearly as much. 

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On 8/11/2016 at 5:02 PM, Superman said:

 

That's stupid, IMO. I think it's myopic, at best, to pretend that different players don't have different leverage in contract negotiations.

 

It's a power play.  And the Chargers can tell Bosa/Agent the person drafted before and the person drafted after him in the draft did get offset language in their contracts, as well as every previous Charger.  So they may ask him why does Bosa feel he should be treated different?

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17 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

It's a power play.  And the Chargers can tell Bosa/Agent the person drafted before and the person drafted after him in the draft did get offset language in their contracts, as well as every previous Charger.  So they may ask him why does Bosa feel he should be treated different?

 

Setting aside the offset language (which, as you know, I don't feel strongly about either way; I think both sides are silly to make an issue of it), I don't believe insisting on signing bonus money being paid in one installment is asking for special treatment. I think top five draft picks get treated different because they're top five draft picks, same as starting QBs get treated different because of their status.

 

In this case, the Chargers saying 'we treat everyone the same, we don't want to create a precedent of breaking our protocol' is silly. Because they don't treat everyone the same, because everyone is NOT the same. Phillip Rivers has more leverage than a late round draft pick, and so does Bosa. Leverage matters in contract negotiations. Their public stance strikes me as disingenuous.

 

By the way, that doesn't mean that I think the Chargers are wrong to stick to their guns when it comes to any point of negotiation. I may not agree with them, but they might have reason for the way they structure their payouts. I'm not sure how interest works on staggered bonus payouts, but it could potentially be a lot of money. What I disagree with is pretending 'everyone's the same' when we know that's not true.

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5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

In this case, the Chargers saying 'we treat everyone the same, we don't want to create a precedent of breaking our protocol' is silly. Because they don't treat everyone the same, because everyone is NOT the same. Phillip Rivers has more leverage than a late round draft pick, and so does Bosa. Leverage matters in contract negotiations. Their public stance strikes me as disingenuous.

 

 

And yet, Tom Telesco reiterates his position as just that, in June -

 

http://www.chargers.com/video/2016/06/14/tom-telesco-talks-joey-bosa-optimism-and-keenan-allens-new-deal

 

 

The Chargers position as of July 28, 2016-

 

"The Chargers made an offer on Thursday morning. Bosa’s camp responded within 90 minutes. The last communication came from the team, which essentially asked Bosa’s representatives if they were sure about their position. They were, and they are.

 

Telesco has called the differences “small” and “fundamental.” They are indeed fundamental, but not small.

The primary sticking points, according to the sources, continue to be: (1) whether the fully guaranteed contract will include offset language; and (2) whether Bosa’s signing bonus will be paid in full this year. The team wants offset language and deferral of a significant portion of the signing bonus into 2017. At a time when many believe Bosa wants the exact opposite on both points, the truth is that Bosa’s representatives would accept one or the other: Offset language or full payment of the signing bonus in 2016."

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/01/bosa-chargers-havent-talked-since-thursday/

 

And covertly once more last week -

 

"There's still a hurdle we just cant get over and that is hindering negotiations" ...

 

 

 

Aontonio Gates has expressed his opinion already, now LaDanian Tomlinson is chirping in too.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/11/tomlinson-puts-heat-on-bosa-too/

 

As of August 10th, Telesco and the chargers feel that hev not been unreasonable.

 

http://www.mighty1090.com/2016/08/10/report-chargers-want-to-defer-roughly-half-of-bosas-signing-bonus/

 

So there you have it.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I agree.  They would be asking for a higher 1st round or a bundle.   Bosa was the 3rd pick in this years draft.   It really sounds like the relationship is broken so it would be in their best interest to get something for him.

 

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45 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree.  They would be asking for a higher 1st round or a bundle.   Bosa was the 3rd pick in this years draft.   It really sounds like the relationship is broken so it would be in their best interest to get something for him.

 

 

Since it's impossible to know who will have what picks in next years draft and knowing that picking randomly they are unlikely to obtain a higher first I'm guessing they will want more then 1 pick.

 

Minimum they are probably going to be asking for a 1st and a 3rd.  But probably more like a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd.  Either that or 2 firsts.

 

I don't want to touch that.  

 

Honestly I think both sides are making this offset language into too big of a deal.  

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17 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Since it's impossible to know who will have what picks in next years draft and knowing that picking randomly they are unlikely to obtain a higher first I'm guessing they will want more then 1 pick.

 

Minimum they are probably going to be asking for a 1st and a 3rd.  But probably more like a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd.  Either that or 2 firsts.

 

I don't want to touch that.  

 

Honestly I think both sides are making this offset language into too big of a deal.  

San Diego has a rep of being stubborn in negotiations.   I don't think they would want 3 picks for him.   At most I bet a 1st and a 3rd with maybe a very late rounder thrown in.  Maybe they would not consider the Colts since predictions would have the Colts first round pick being in the 20's.   Maybe they approach the Browns first.

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6 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

While Bosa may a tremendous talent, you have to question why he is fighting so hard to get all his bonus money up front.

 

My personal belief is so he can cash in and "retire" from the NFL after a year with about $10 in the bank.  But that is just speculation on my part.

I speculate that this is all on the agent.

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44 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

While Bosa may a tremendous talent, you have to question why he is fighting so hard to get all his bonus money up front.

 

My personal belief is so he can cash in and "retire" from the NFL after a year with about $10 in the bank.  But that is just speculation on my part.

 

That's not correct by any stretch.

 

First of all he's getting the same amount up front no matter what.

 

Secondly if he doesn't fulfill his end of the contract the team can and will demand most of the bonus money back.  

 

So this doesn't help him at all if he retires after one year.

 

What it does help him is if he gets cut from the team and then gets signed by another team.  But even that wouldn't help him in the long run because he would only command a low salary if that happened.  

 

So to me it's a big deal over nothing.  The difference each way is going to be negligible.  With offset language it saves the Bolt's about a half a million dollars which is small in a contract of this size.  Without it he gets an extra half million.  

 

Most likely his agent is pushing him to do this.  

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45 minutes ago, Myles said:

San Diego has a rep of being stubborn in negotiations.   I don't think they would want 3 picks for him.   At most I bet a 1st and a 3rd with maybe a very late rounder thrown in.  Maybe they would consider the Colts since predictions would have the Colts first round pick being in the 20's.   Maybe they approach the Browns first.

 

#3 pick in the draft and you think they are going to give him away for a mid first round pick and a 3rd??

 

Do you you realize that the #3 overall pick is worth more then a mid first round pick and a mid 3rd round pick??

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

 

The #3 pick is worth 2200 points.  The #16 pick is worth 1000 points and the corresponding 3rd round pick (80 overall) is worth 190 points.  

 

That's a thousand points of difference.  

 

Making it a first, 2nd and 3rd still puts us behind by about 500 points of difference.  

 

If they want to recoup the value of their pick they are going to ask for the farm.  

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4 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

While Bosa may a tremendous talent, you have to question why he is fighting so hard to get all his bonus money up front.

 

My personal belief is so he can cash in and "retire" from the NFL after a year with about $10 in the bank.  But that is just speculation on my part.

The Bolts chose Bosa with the 3rd pick. Therefore they owe him that money. IMO it's the shady front office that's caused this mess. First they turn Weddle into an outcast because of his contract situation and now Bosa. Shame on the Chargers organization not the players. 

 

NFL players are treated so unfairly by teams and the NFL that I'm all for them exercising their rights and demanding what is fair. And fair to them, not the team, not others players, the media, or fans. 

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3 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

That's not correct by any stretch.

 

First of all he's getting the same amount up front no matter what.

 

Secondly if he doesn't fulfill his end of the contract the team can and will demand most of the bonus money back.  

 

So this doesn't help him at all if he retires after one year.

 

What it does help him is if he gets cut from the team and then gets signed by another team.  But even that wouldn't help him in the long run because he would only command a low salary if that happened.  

 

So to me it's a big deal over nothing.  The difference each way is going to be negligible.  With offset language it saves the Bolt's about a half a million dollars which is small in a contract of this size.  Without it he gets an extra half million.  

 

Most likely his agent is pushing him to do this.  

No, that is one of the reasons for him not signing, he doesn't want his bonuses spread out, he wants it now.

 

Also it's not true that they can demand their money back, they can put language in the contract that states that if a player doesn't fulfill the contract than a portion of any bonuses have to be paid back but that is not usually a $1-$1 payback.

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2 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

#3 pick in the draft and you think they are going to give him away for a mid first round pick and a 3rd??

 

Do you you realize that the #3 overall pick is worth more then a mid first round pick and a mid 3rd round pick??

My bad, I'll edit my post.   I meant to say maybe they would not consider the Colts.

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4 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

The Bolts chose Bosa with the 3rd pick. Therefore they owe him that money. IMO it's the shady front office that's caused this mess. First they turn Weddle into an outcast because of his contract situation and now Bosa. Shame on the Chargers organization not the players. 

 

NFL players are treated so unfairly by teams and the NFL that I'm all for them exercising their rights and demanding what is fair. And fair to them, not the team, not others players, the media, or fans. 

NFL players are making more money every year so I disagree that they are being treated unfairly.

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3 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

The Bolts chose Bosa with the 3rd pick. Therefore they owe him that money. IMO it's the shady front office that's caused this mess. First they turn Weddle into an outcast because of his contract situation and now Bosa. Shame on the Chargers organization not the players. 

 

NFL players are treated so unfairly by teams and the NFL that I'm all for them exercising their rights and demanding what is fair. And fair to them, not the team, not others players, the media, or fans. 

Sooo...if a player signs a huge contract and decides to mail it in or not live up to the performance of that huge contract he will give some of the money back?  I think not.

The NFL is a business.  Both sides are looking out for their best interest.  The best deal is the one that benefitsvthge team.  I only see it by individual situations and find it hard to agree with the blanket comment about one side being more fair than the other.

Just my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Sooo...if a player signs a huge contract and decides to mail it in or not live up to the performance of that huge contract he will give some of the money back?  I think not.

The NFL is a business.  Both sides are looking out for their best interest.  The best deal is the one that benefitsvthge team.  I only see it by individual situations and find it hard to agree with the blanket comment about one side being more fair than the other.

Just my opinion.

They will definitely owe the team money. And although NFL players make a lot of money the discrepancy between players pay and the amount of money the NFL and teams make is ridiculous. Not to mention teams can cut players with almost zero repercussion and even if they have guaranteed $$ in their contract that percentage is tiny compared to other less profitable sports like basketball. 

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