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Jaguars signed former Colts DE/OLB Bjoern Werner.


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37 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Maybe they're shooting the German language version of Rudy? 


I feel somewhat cruel for ripping on Bjoern so much, he wasn't ever a problem ,was a solid team guy... just couldn't make the leap to the NFL. 

 

Yeah the dude didn't do anything wrong.  He just wasn't a good NFL player.

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10 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

He was slow as a 3-4 outside linebacker he could be a lot different as a 4-3 end he never fit what the colts are doing which is why it still baffles me we drafted him.

 

it baffles you because the part I put in bold is not true.

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3 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Yeah the dude didn't do anything wrong.  He just wasn't a good NFL player.

 

It is also a possibility that the LB coach and DC from last year (both of whom were fired) were not the right guys to get the best out of Werner. I was actually hoping the Colts would keep Werner for one more year to see if Monachino could get him to a Paul Kruger type level.  

 

I too will be interested to see how he does in Jax.  I wish him well....for 14 weeks of the season. :D

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7 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Yes it is he is a 4-3 end we drafted to be an outside linebacker wasn't ever going to work.

It has worked for many in the past.  Werner just didn't adapt to the position for a variety of reasons 

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46 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Yes it is he is a 4-3 end we drafted to be an outside linebacker wasn't ever going to work.

 

 

nope.  First, at FSU he did play mostly as a 4-3 DE, but he also played in multiple LB spots as well.  Plus, as jvan said, MANY of the best OLBs in the league were 4-3 DEs in college.  I has nothing to do with "4-3 DE won't work in a 3-4" which is a misconception that gets repeated all too often.

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2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

 

nope.  First, at FSU he did play mostly as a 4-3 DE, but he also played in multiple LB spots as well.  Plus, as jvan said, MANY of the best OLBs in the league were 4-3 DEs in college.  I has nothing to do with "4-3 DE won't work in a 3-4" which is a misconception that gets repeated all too often.

 

 The ridiculous part of your post is the blather about College 4-3 ends. Get over repeating that ___!
 Werner is not athletic enough to be a good NFL 3-4 OLB. THAT is, was, and will forever BE the Point!!
  Now seeing Werner beat Reitz and then lighting up Andrew, that would be one for Chuckie & Grigs! lol

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14 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 The ridiculous part of your post is the blather about College 4-3 ends. Get over repeating that ___!
 Werner is not athletic enough to be a good NFL 3-4 OLB. THAT is, was, and will forever BE the Point!!
  Now seeing Werner beat Reitz and then lighting up Andrew, that would be one for Chuckie & Grigs! lol

He is every bit as athletic as Paul Kruger who has 33.5 sacks in 7 years and 11 in 2014. Werner was bad because of not getting much time to hone his skills and lack of pass rush moves and not having great acceleration off the edge....Though this has been a bit overstated in my opinion

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2 hours ago, SilentHill said:

So I heard this joke the other day....

 

Bjoern Werner and Trent Richardson walk onto a football field and....

 

ummmm. the coach yells - " Nice effort guys, good to finally see you two hustle out there..." ???

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9 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

It has worked for many in the past.  Werner just didn't adapt to the position for a variety of reasons 

Ya it sucks but it is what it is sometimes it just doesn't work out I wish him luck with the JAGS though will see if he does anything.

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On 5/11/2016 at 4:46 PM, MTC said:

 

Reggie White was clocked at 4.69 in the 40-yard dash-more speed than a man his size should be allowed ... I don't know where people are getting he is slow, for a 300 pound man 4.6 is good.....

 

 

Arron Donald Ran a 4.68

 

Warren Sapp ran a 40 at 4.69

 

Bruce Smith   When Smith came out of Virginia Tech, he carried 290 pounds on his 6-4 frame, and timed at 4.68 in the 40. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

This signing is about learning more about our defense, He couldn't figure it here so ask away Jags

The Jags play the Colts two times a year. There is nothing they could ask that would tell them something they don't already know. I think the Jags signed Werner just for the fact he could work out in the 4-3 better than the 3-4. At least I think that is what they are thinking anyway.

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17 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 The ridiculous part of your post is the blather about College 4-3 ends. Get over repeating that ___!
 Werner is not athletic enough to be a good NFL 3-4 OLB. THAT is, was, and will forever BE the Point!!
  Now seeing Werner beat Reitz and then lighting up Andrew, that would be one for Chuckie & Grigs! lol

 

I'd be happy to if you could get people to stop repeating the same nonsense that Werner was a bad fit for our defense because "he's a 4-3 end".  That was NOT the problem with Werner. 

 

And as Gavin pointed out, Werner is just as athletic as Kruger, who may not be the best OLB in the league, but he's not a bad one either. So no, it was not that he's not athletic enough.  That's some ____ that YOU need to get over repeating!

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On one hand, I wanna say the guy flat out sucks. But on the other, they did try to get him to play outside of his position the whole time. Like they did with Freeney. So if they let him play his natural position, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he flourished with the Jags. Big "IF" though.

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On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 4:39 PM, SteelCityColt said:

Might do better in their system and become a Bjoern again pass rusher but I doubt it.

 

Nice.  Speaking of nice, he seems like a nice guy, and I liked the German connection with Luck when we drafted Werner.

 

I don't like the Jags, but I can't be mad if he all of a sudden starts performing because he gets to put his hand in the ground in a 4-3 and just go after the QB without having to worry about coverage. 

 

I hope it works out for him, just not when they're playing the Colts.

 

It's not quite the same, but this still kinda smells like when we signed Deion Branch for like, a week, in the playoffs one year, since we were playing the Pats.  Deion was nowhere near the top of our depth chart, but he had recently played for our rival.  I don't think Werner will be anywhere near the top of the Jags depth chart, but he just played a few years for their rival.  Just kinda fishy if you ask me...

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On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 2:34 PM, jvan1973 said:

It has worked for many in the past.  Werner just didn't adapt to the position for a variety of reasons 

 

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 3:11 PM, Jason_S said:

 

 

nope.  First, at FSU he did play mostly as a 4-3 DE, but he also played in multiple LB spots as well.  Plus, as jvan said, MANY of the best OLBs in the league were 4-3 DEs in college.  I has nothing to do with "4-3 DE won't work in a 3-4" which is a misconception that gets repeated all too often.

 

He was athletic enough to play different positions in college, but what didn't translate to the pros was his coverage ability (or lack thereof).  If the Jags only ask him to put his hand in the dirt and rush the passer as a 4-3 DE, he might have success. 

 

He is just not athletic enough to play OLB in a 3-4 in the NFL.  He can't cover, he can't keep up with a RB in man-to-man, and he's not that explosive off the edge.

 

Some guys can transition from college 4-3 DE to NFL 3-4 OLBs because they are athletic enough to be explosive off the edge AND cover NFL-caliber athletes at RB, TE, and WR.

 

That's the whole point of a multiple hybrid 3-4 front, it keeps the offense guessing as to who is rushing and who is dropping into coverage.  You need OLBs and DBs that can rush and cover.

 

It's unfortunate, because I like the guy, but Werner is just better suited as a pure 4-3 DE.  Colts blew that pick on him.

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1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

He was athletic enough to play different positions in college, but what didn't translate to the pros was his coverage ability (or lack thereof).  If the Jags only ask him to put his hand in the dirt and rush the passer as a 4-3 DE, he might have success. 

 

He is just not athletic enough to play OLB in a 3-4 in the NFL.  He can't cover, he can't keep up with a RB in man-to-man, and he's not that explosive off the edge.

 

Some guys can transition from college 4-3 DE to NFL 3-4 OLBs because they are athletic enough to be explosive off the edge AND cover NFL-caliber athletes at RB, TE, and WR.

 

That's the whole point of a multiple hybrid 3-4 front, it keeps the offense guessing as to who is rushing and who is dropping into coverage.  You need OLBs and DBs that can rush and cover.

 

It's unfortunate, because I like the guy, but Werner is just better suited as a pure 4-3 DE.  Colts blew that pick on him.

He can't rush the passer either.    He played standing up and with his hand in the dirt here.    He had little success

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6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He can't rush the passer either.    He played standing up and with his hand in the dirt here.    He had little success

Because he did not have an affective pass rush rep...No good go to move and no counter. He wasn't real explosive but that certainly wasn't his big problem. Players as explosive as him or even less have put up respectable or better sack numbers and pressures in there careers

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14 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He can't rush the passer either.    He played standing up and with his hand in the dirt here.    He had little success

 

What little success he did have was when he had his hand in the dirt rushing the passer.  And his sacks are probably going to be "coverage sacks".  He is not explosive off the edge, but he does hustle.  If the Jags only ask him to do one thing, he might get better at it.  The Colts expected too much of him as a 3-4 OLB, having coverage responsibilities.  He is not athletic enough to be explosive off the edge, much less cover an NFL athlete.

 

This thread made me think of Von Miller picking off Tom Brady in the AFCCG.  I think EVERYONE, Tom Brady most of all, was surprised to see Miller dropping back into coverage instead of rushing the passer, but he is athletic enough to do so.  He is the current mold for a prototypical NFL multiple hybrid 3-4 OLB.  A mold Werner just doesn't fit into...

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18 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

 

He was athletic enough to play different positions in college, but what didn't translate to the pros was his coverage ability (or lack thereof).  If the Jags only ask him to put his hand in the dirt and rush the passer as a 4-3 DE, he might have success. 

 

He is just not athletic enough to play OLB in a 3-4 in the NFL.  He can't cover, he can't keep up with a RB in man-to-man, and he's not that explosive off the edge.

 

Some guys can transition from college 4-3 DE to NFL 3-4 OLBs because they are athletic enough to be explosive off the edge AND cover NFL-caliber athletes at RB, TE, and WR.

 

That's the whole point of a multiple hybrid 3-4 front, it keeps the offense guessing as to who is rushing and who is dropping into coverage.  You need OLBs and DBs that can rush and cover.

 

It's unfortunate, because I like the guy, but Werner is just better suited as a pure 4-3 DE.  Colts blew that pick on him.

 

I disagree.  I actually think he was better at defending the run and playing in coverage than he was at rushing the passer.  

 

I do agree that they asked too much of him, but at the same time they didn't have much choice.  Lawrence Sidbury was supposed to be Walden's backup at SAM during Werner's rookie year and they were only going to have Werner learn and play RushLB behind Mathis.  However, Sidbury suffered a season-ending injury in TC or preseason which forced them to play Werner more at SAM.

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6 hours ago, Jason_S said:

I disagree.  I actually think he was better at defending the run and playing in coverage than he was at rushing the passer.

 

I didn't say he was bad at defending the run, that might be his best attribute, but I'm also not going to say he is "good" at it either.  He has 11 TFL for -22 yds.  Not the most impressive stat-line for 3 years worth of work, but it's more impressive than his numbers against the pass.  IMO, stopping the run has a lot to do with attitude and hustle.  It helps to be really athletic, but LBs don't have to be the best athletes on the field to stop the run.  Defending the pass, though, requires elite athletes all over the field.

 

It's safe to say he just isn't athletic enough when it comes to passing plays.  He got 6.5 sacks and defended 5 passes, with no INTs, during his 3 years here as an OLB.  He can't rush the passer or cover anyone very well, but he can get coverage sacks with his motor.  Which means being a 4-3 DE in nickel packages is his best bet to be successful in the NFL.  Some college 4-3 DEs just can't transition to 3-4 OLB in the NFL because they aren't athletic enough, and Werner is a prime example.  Some can because they are athletic enough, like Mathis.  Me from 10 years ago still can't believe Mathis has an interception from dropping into coverage, but 2016 me wouldn't be surprised if Mathis had more than 1 this year if he is fully healthy the entire season.

 

It's probably not fair to make this comparison, but Von Miller got interceptions and sacks in the most important games of the season during last years' AFCCG and SB.  If I remember correctly, Werner was a "healthy scratch" going into the AFCCG the year before.

 

Best case scenario:  He can stuff the run and get coverage sacks playing 4-3 DE in the nickel.  It's ironic he signed with the Jags, because his role in the NFL now is being a JAG (Just Another Guy) that can be depth or step in when someone (Fowler) gets injured.  If not the Jags, I'm sure some team will need a player that can do at least that much.  At least now teams know what to expect (or not expect) from him...

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