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He's got the measurables. I'm going to have to research the big guy a little further.

Sadly, wasting a pick on a QB that we could use to build a stellar, well-built, Giants or 49ers style team, will likely prevent us from getting players like this.

Wasting a pick on the best QB prospect of the past 30yrs... Sadly, if you were our GM we would end up with no one to throw the ball lol

I LOVE the fact that you use the Giants and 49ers to keep harping on why you think we should trade the #1 pick...especially when you consider the fact that the Giants used their #1 pick to draft Eli Manning....and the 49ers used their #1 pick to draft Alex Smith... The fact is, neither the Giants or the 49ers have exactly been using their #1 picks of late to bolster their D...but i'm sure that those facts dont exactly help your argument, so its a lot better for you to just not mention them.

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Wasting a pick on the best QB prospect of the past 30yrs... Sadly, if you were our GM we would end up with no one to throw the ball lol

I LOVE the fact that you use the Giants and 49ers to keep harping on why you think we should trade the #1 pick...especially when you consider the fact that the Giants used their #1 pick to draft Eli Manning....and the 49ers used their #1 pick to draft Alex Smith... The fact is, neither the Giants or the 49ers have exactly been using their #1 picks of late to bolster their D...but i'm sure that those facts dont exactly help your argument, so its a lot better for you to just not mention them.

What on Earth are you talking about? Did you even look at the Giants or the 49ers drafts? I suggest you look over them before commenting next time... CB Prince Amukamara to the Giants? DE Aldon Smith to the 49ers?

And looky there! They Giants and 49ers drafted QB's #4 and #1 overall when they needed a quarterback! We don't need one so your point doesn't make any sense.

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What on Earth are you talking about? Did you even look at the Giants or the 49ers drafts? I suggest you look over them before commenting next time... CB Prince Amukamara to the Giants? DE Aldon Smith to the 49ers?

And looky there! They Giants and 49ers drafted QB's #4 and #1 overall when they needed a quarterback! We don't need one so your point doesn't make any sense.

how do you know that we dont need one? Back when we drafted Peyton, we couldve kept Harbaugh and traded the #1 pick for a few other draft picks...looking back, would you wanted us to have done that?

Say for example the Dolphins would have had that #1 pick instead of us...if they were unsure how much longer Marino would play, but assumed it would be at most 4 more seasons...looking back, do you think they wouldve liked to have had Peyton Manning waiting to take over once Dan had to retire? They have been trying to find a decent starting QB ever since Marino left and have been unsuccessful...i bet they would have LOVED to have been in the position we are in now, with the ability to take Manning to have as Marino's back up and future replacement.....

Also, i HAVE looked at the 49ers and Giants drafts...while they have selected a few defensive players in the first round, MOST of their impact guys were selected later in the drafts...and YOUR example (Amukamara)_hasnt exactly seen the field much, has he? so how do you even know if he will make an impact on that team?

The Giants didnt "need" a QB...they did have Kurt Warner, and he wasnt exactly finished by any means at that time...he went on to the super bowl with arizona, AFTER he left the Giants...Eli wasnt even the starter his rookie year...if you were correct, and that they "needed a quarterback!" you would think that Eli wouldve started his rookie year, right?

And the 49ers have selected OFFENSIVE players in the first round 2 out of the past 3 years

And another thing, you said "looky there!" about the Giants selecting a QB #4...but you fail to mention that they drafted Phillip Rivers #4 and traded UP to get the QB selected #1 (Eli Manning)...and he wasnt even the starter that season!

So perhaps before you "suggest" that i look over things before commenting next time, YOU need to do the same thing, before you try to act like you know it all when you obviously do not!

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Come'on guys you know Morris Claieborne would guarantee us a super bowl, :facepalm:..... I kid, I kid.

Looks like Irsay is going to draft a QB regardless what we think anyways even though I'm for that, considering he said RGiii and Luck are players you, "can't pass on." Too many signs seem to be pointing in one direction IMO.

Colts will still be able to build a solid defense by selecting players in rounds 2+++, UDFA, possibly FA and of course next years draft. These guys know more about this team than we do and I imagine Irsay will do everything in his power to make and or keep this team good, whether we keep current playeres, release current players or bring in new players.

In terms of this Hicks fellow, the article sums him up to be a very solid player. He's a big guy @ 6"4, 324, good wingspan and seems to have good speed for his size. They say he has raw tecunique, so he could hopefully better himself if he was well coached and had the nack to learn and improve. Who knows, might be a good FA pickup.

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Come'on guys you know Morris Claieborne would guarantee us a super bowl, :facepalm:..... I kid, I kid.

Looks like Irsay is going to draft a QB regardless what we think anyways even though I'm for that, considering he said RGiii and Luck are players you, "can't pass on." Too many signs seem to be pointing in one direction IMO.

Colts will still be able to build a solid defense by selecting players in rounds 2+++, UDFA, possibly FA and of course next years draft. These guys know more about this team than we do and I imagine Irsay will do everything in his power to make and or keep this team good, whether we keep current playeres, release current players or bring in new players.

In terms of this Hicks fellow, the article sums him up to be a very solid player. He's a big guy @ 6"4, 324, good wingspan and seems to have good speed for his size. They say he has raw tecunique, so he could hopefully better himself if he was well coached and had the nack to learn and improve. Who knows, might be a good FA pickup.

the "anti Luck" people will try any argument they can think up...

The idea that trading Luck is our only chance to ever build a good defense is beyond silly. It is completely possible to draft a QB #1 and still manage to build a good defense...or even a "STELLAR" defense as Doogan put it...and i can easily use the two teams that HE used as examples of why it cant happen ad MY examples of why it most certainly CAN happen.

The 49ers took a QB #1 and still managed to build a "stellar" defense....the Giants drafted a QB #4 and traded him and other pieces to get the QB who was drafted #1 and they too have managed to build a "stellar" defense....but somehow, by doogan's logic, if we draft Luck, there is no chance that we can do the same.... :loco:

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how do you know that we dont need one? Back when we drafted Peyton, we couldve kept Harbaugh and traded the #1 pick for a few other draft picks...looking back, would you wanted us to have done that?

Say for example the Dolphins would have had that #1 pick instead of us...if they were unsure how much longer Marino would play, but assumed it would be at most 4 more seasons...looking back, do you think they wouldve liked to have had Peyton Manning waiting to take over once Dan had to retire? They have been trying to find a decent starting QB ever since Marino left and have been unsuccessful...i bet they would have LOVED to have been in the position we are in now, with the ability to take Manning to have as Marino's back up and future replacement.....

Also, i HAVE looked at the 49ers and Giants drafts...while they have selected a few defensive players in the first round, MOST of their impact guys were selected later in the drafts...and YOUR example (Amukamara)_hasnt exactly seen the field much, has he? so how do you even know if he will make an impact on that team?

The Giants didnt "need" a QB...they did have Kurt Warner, and he wasnt exactly finished by any means at that time...he went on to the super bowl with arizona, AFTER he left the Giants...Eli wasnt even the starter his rookie year...if you were correct, and that they "needed a quarterback!" you would think that Eli wouldve started his rookie year, right?

And the 49ers have selected OFFENSIVE players in the first round 2 out of the past 3 years

And another thing, you said "looky there!" about the Giants selecting a QB #4...but you fail to mention that they drafted Phillip Rivers #4 and traded UP to get the QB selected #1 (Eli Manning)...and he wasnt even the starter that season!

So perhaps before you "suggest" that i look over things before commenting next time, YOU need to do the same thing, before you try to act like you know it all when you obviously do not!

:facepalm:

Sigh...

Do I even have to respond to you or could you possibly just use google or watch some NFL games so you can save me the trouble?

1. Your comparing Jim Harbaugh... to a hall of famer in Peyton Manning. Harbaugh's last year with the colts wasn't exactly anything spectacular. 2060 passing yards, 10 touchdowns, 4 interceptions.

2. Watch the games and you'll see that Prince Amukamara was playing nearly the whole game against the Packers... matching up against Greg Jennings several times.

3. I don't understand your judgements on the Giants and 49ers drafts... they have been balanced in picking for offense and defense...

4. Kurt Warner wasn't playing his best football in his year with the Giants. 2054 passing yards, 6 touchdowns, 4 interceptions in 10 games, 9 started. And who would have known that Warner was going to start playing at an incredible level with the Cardinals? Don't act like you did.

5. Eli Manning did in fact start his rookie season, just not the very first game.

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:facepalm:

Sigh...

Do I even have to respond to you or could you possibly just use google or watch some NFL games so you can save me the trouble?

1. Your comparing Jim Harbaugh... to a hall of famer in Peyton Manning. Harbaugh's last year with the colts wasn't exactly anything spectacular. 2060 passing yards, 10 touchdowns, 4 interceptions.

2. Watch the games and you'll see that Prince Amukamara was playing nearly the whole game against the Packers... matching up against Greg Jennings several times.

3. I don't understand your judgements on the Giants and 49ers drafts... they have been balanced in picking for offense and defense...

4. Kurt Warner wasn't playing his best football in his year with the Giants. 2054 passing yards, 6 touchdowns, 4 interceptions in 10 games, 9 started. And who would have known that Warner was going to start playing at an incredible level with the Cardinals? Don't act like you did.

5. Eli Manning did in fact start his rookie season, just not the very first game.

No, i did NOT compare Jim Harbaugh to Peyton Manning...i simply said that you saying we dont need a QB and should trade the pick, could have just as easily been said about the Colts back then, or the Giants when they traded up to get Eli.

And did i say that Prince didnt play against the Packers last week? i couldve sworn that i said he missed most of the SEASON...one game doesnt make a whole career.

And my "judgments against the 49ers and Giants drafts"...i did NOT say that they drafted poorly, i simply was responding to Doogan's post that made the assumption that we should be like the 49ers and Giants and draft defense instead of a QB...when in fact they have BOTH taken the opportunity to take a #1 drafted QB in recent years, and have not spent all of their top picks on D...i was trying to point out to him that you can draft a QB #1 and in fact still build a good defense...it doent have to be one or the other... to be honest, my original post in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with you or anything you said, yet you seem to have jumped to his rescue, and here we are.

While Warner may have been having a less than great season, my point was that the Giants had a good QB yet they STILL traded UP to get the #1 pick QB and yet they have still managed to build a good defense...again, in response to Doogan claiming that if we take a QB #1 we can not build a good defense for our team.

And i didnt say that Eli did not start a game his rookie year, i only said that they werent in desperate need of a QB, they just felt like they would need one soon and took advantage of their high position in that draft to get the one they wanted.

You can put up the face palm emoticon on here all you want....and you can sigh all you want...and you can pretend that everything you say is right and makes so much sense, while my posts are just crazy...but that is just your opinion and doesnt make it true

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the "anti Luck" people will try any argument they can think up...

The idea that trading Luck is our only chance to ever build a good defense is beyond silly. It is completely possible to draft a QB #1 and still manage to build a good defense...or even a "STELLAR" defense as Doogan put it...and i can easily use the two teams that HE used as examples of why it cant happen ad MY examples of why it most certainly CAN happen.

The 49ers took a QB #1 and still managed to build a "stellar" defense....the Giants drafted a QB #4 and traded him and other pieces to get the QB who was drafted #1 and they too have managed to build a "stellar" defense....but somehow, by doogan's logic, if we draft Luck, there is no chance that we can do the same.... :loco:

Yeah I hear ya, it's just the simple divide between people that think Manning will come back 100% healthy and want to build for a short term run @ SB, opposed to others who want to start preparing for the future, "now." I understand alot of their logic, however one problem is, even if we do trade Luck for an extra first rounder this year and next, and two second rounders or what not (in a hypothetical scenario), what's to say the Colts won't pick a couple offensive players anyways?? In my opinion the Colts could still easily develope a solid team even if they drafted Luck and I'm not 100% sure Manning is coming back, Irsay seems on the path to rebuilding so I'm going to put my faith in him and believe he will do the right thing. I'm also one of the people (along with Irsay) that don't think you could pass on a player like Andrew Luck and even Robert Griffin so I'd be more than happy with any of them, then the Colts can decide to build needed positions through other means, it's not impossible by any means at all. On another note if Peyton does come back I still think the Colts always have a shot at the SB, heck I didn't think SF would beat NO and the Giants would romp GB or that Denver would even beat Pitts. Anything can happen in this league. It seems to me Irsay though seems pretty set on what he's going to do.

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Yeah I hear ya, it's just the simple divide between people that think Manning will come back 100% healthy and want to build for a short term run @ SB, opposed to others who want to start preparing for the future, "now." I understand alot of their logic, however one problem is, even if we do trade Luck for an extra first rounder this year and next, and two second rounders or what not (in a hypothetical scenario), what's to say the Colts won't pick a couple offensive players anyways?? In my opinion the Colts could still easily develope a solid team even if they drafted Luck and I'm not 100% sure Manning is coming back, Irsay seems on the path to rebuilding so I'm going to put my faith in him and believe he will do the right thing. I'm also one of the people (along with Irsay) that don't think you could pass on a player like Andrew Luck and even Robert Griffin so I'd be more than happy with any of them, then the Colts can decide to build needed positions through other means, it's not impossible by any means at all. On another note if Peyton does come back I still think the Colts always have a shot at the SB, heck I didn't think SF would beat NO and the Giants would romp GB or that Denver would even beat Pitts. Anything can happen in this league. It seems to me Irsay though seems pretty set on what he's going to do.

Yeah, i agree...i am the biggest Peyton Manning fan you can find. I think he is the greatest to ever play the game, and i hope that he comes back 100% and plays out his 4yrs left on his contract before he does retire. And i honestly believe that with Peyton, we will be right back at the top next year, if everyone comes back healthy. The way i look at it, we wouldve been contenders THIS season if Peyton had been 100%...everyone agrees that we have needed a better back up QB over the years, and the way i see it, Luck can be that really good back up QB who also can be our future franchise QB. Thanks to the new CBA, Luck wont be making more than a good veteran back up QB in all honesty...and we will still be picking at/near the top of every round of the draft...

With those other high draft picks that we have, along with the possibility of picking up a player or two in free agency, i think we can be every bit as good as the 2009 team that went 14-2.

I feel like Castonzo and Nevis are both going to be very good...and Ijalana has the potential to be as well, assuming he recovers from his knee injury. Carter can be very productive as he matures as a player, also.

My whole problem with doogan's post was that so many people seem to have the false impression that if we draft Luck and keep Peyton, we will have to field a terrible team...thats just not true at all. I argue that the talent on our team (if healthy) is much better than it was in 2010 when we finished 10-6, and next year the young guys will have the benefit of a full training camp...and we will be adding some new very talented players in this year's draft, also.

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No, i did NOT compare Jim Harbaugh to Peyton Manning...i simply said that you saying we dont need a QB and should trade the pick, could have just as easily been said about the Colts back then, or the Giants when they traded up to get Eli.

And did i say that Prince didnt play against the Packers last week? i couldve sworn that i said he missed most of the SEASON...one game doesnt make a whole career.

And my "judgments against the 49ers and Giants drafts"...i did NOT say that they drafted poorly, i simply was responding to Doogan's post that made the assumption that we should be like the 49ers and Giants and draft defense instead of a QB...when in fact they have BOTH taken the opportunity to take a #1 drafted QB in recent years, and have not spent all of their top picks on D...i was trying to point out to him that you can draft a QB #1 and in fact still build a good defense...it doent have to be one or the other... to be honest, my original post in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with you or anything you said, yet you seem to have jumped to his rescue, and here we are.

While Warner may have been having a less than great season, my point was that the Giants had a good QB yet they STILL traded UP to get the #1 pick QB and yet they have still managed to build a good defense...again, in response to Doogan claiming that if we take a QB #1 we can not build a good defense for our team.

And i didnt say that Eli did not start a game his rookie year, i only said that they werent in desperate need of a QB, they just felt like they would need one soon and took advantage of their high position in that draft to get the one they wanted.

You can put up the face palm emoticon on here all you want....and you can sigh all you want...and you can pretend that everything you say is right and makes so much sense, while my posts are just crazy...but that is just your opinion and doesnt make it true

I don't think anyone is denying that you can build a great defense while drafting a QB number 1 overall, it just takes more time. The problem is that with Peyton Manning, we don't have that kind of time. We need a very good defense right now and a good O-line right now if we want to help Peyton win the Super Bowl over the next few years. If we trade the #1 pick, it's a whole lot easier to build the strong defense and the good O-line in a much shorter time, like by next year if we draft right. If we draft Andrew Luck, then it would take longer to build a good team, unless we somehow draft top level starters in every round this year haha, but that probably won't happen.

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I don't think anyone is denying that you can build a great defense while drafting a QB number 1 overall, it just takes more time. The problem is that with Peyton Manning, we don't have that kind of time. We need a very good defense right now and a good O-line right now if we want to help Peyton win the Super Bowl over the next few years. If we trade the #1 pick, it's a whole lot easier to build the strong defense and the good O-line in a much shorter time, like by next year if we draft right. If we draft Andrew Luck, then it would take longer to build a good team, unless we somehow draft top level starters in every round this year haha, but that probably won't happen.

if you want to win "right now", then you shouldnt want to rely on a bunch of rookies and FUTURE rookies anyhow

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A bunch of rookies? I'd call Morris Claiborne the only starter right away that I would draft. I would also sign a couple of free agents at good prices to fill out the roster.

yes, a bunch of rookies and future rookies...that is what your "trade the pick and win now" plan consists of...and if Claiborne is the only one who you think would be an immediate starter, then explain to me how trading the pick is a win now move...if you gain only one starter from the draft at a position that we could pick up a free agent instead, and still have Luck for when Peyton retires?

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yes, a bunch of rookies and future rookies...that is what your "trade the pick and win now" plan consists of...and if Claiborne is the only one who you think would be an immediate starter, then explain to me how trading the pick is a win now move...if you gain only one starter from the draft at a position that we could pick up a free agent instead, and still have Luck for when Peyton retires?

I'll go into more detail.

Here's my 1st 5 picks of my trade down draft from Cleveland.

Round 1: #4 - Morris Claiborne, CB LSU - He is a very talented CB and like I said would probably start right away

Round 1: #22 - Brandon Thompson, DT Clemson or best NT available, maybe Michael Brockers - DT's work in a rotation so a talented rookie can provide an impact like Drake Nevis did this year.

Round 2: #34 - Mark Barron, SS Alabama - This is a tricky one, we could either sign a free agent, maybe Bob Sanders, or keep Melvin Bullit. They would start unless Barron earns the right to start. He would be a backup and play on special teams if he doesn't start, which we need a lot of help on.

Round 2: #36 - Kelechi Osemele, G/OT Iowa State - If Osemele can beat out any of our RG's, then he would start. If not, he can develop behind Ryan Diem or one of our other G's until he is ready.

The rest of the picks would be for improving talent, depth, and future starters. I decided not to list the rest them.

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If Peyton retires, that is the only case where we can definitely say we need a QB, IMO. I truly hope we find the answers in March. If he can play, we are already a playoff contender, we need to do whatever is needed to make us a SB contender.

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Wasting a pick on the best QB prospect of the past 30yrs... Sadly, if you were our GM we would end up with no one to throw the ball lol

I LOVE the fact that you use the Giants and 49ers to keep harping on why you think we should trade the #1 pick...especially when you consider the fact that the Giants used their #1 pick to draft Eli Manning....and the 49ers used their #1 pick to draft Alex Smith... The fact is, neither the Giants or the 49ers have exactly been using their #1 picks of late to bolster their D...but i'm sure that those facts dont exactly help your argument, so its a lot better for you to just not mention them.

Don't let common sense get in the way of his agenda mate.

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