Matt Miller: The love is real for Ryan Kelly in Indianapolis

[krunk]

49 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Thanks for the clarification. I get it anytime a team has a pick in the top 20; you want to know that that athlete can immediately be inserted into the starting lineup, make an immediate impact, & hit the ground running. I'm not saying a player chosen at 18 is an automatic player that never comes off the field, but they should be in frequent rotation with plays designed to appeal to their natural skill set even if only for a specific package of formations. 

 

I think it's a pretty decent chance he'll be a really good player and Luck would be protected with Kelly I believe. I don't see him getting slammed back in to Andrews knees like Harrison was with Hasslebeck.   All in all it's just a matter of did we get the best athlete available? And the answer will probably be no, but it does not mean all is lost. When I'm looking at games and Luck is protected I won't really be thinking about who we could have had to be honest.  I'll only be mad about it during the draft and a couple days afterwards. After that it's water under the bridge for me!  Kelly is a good football player even if value was not maximized.  I prefer Seumalo and Whitehair for our OL choices but Kelly is certainly not a curse.

[Dustin]

I dont see how Grigson spends a first round pick on a center after 2 years of saying how he doesn't value the position. Seems like a smokescreen, and I don't say that often. 

[throwing BBZ]

Gee, our "coaches" have revealed our draft strategy to our competition through some ___ at B/R.
Uh huh!
 
 

[southwest1]

19 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

I think it's a pretty decent chance he'll be a good player and Luck would be protected with Kelly I think.  All in all it's just a matter of value, but when I'm looking at games and Luck is protected I won't really be thinking about who we could have had to be honest.  I'll only be mad about it during the draft and a couple days afterwards. After that it's water under the bridge for me!

I hear ya krunk. I just don't want another Philip Dorsett hand scratcher draft experience again. Now, I like Dorsett's personality & work ethic. Nothing against the man personally. I just was surprised we did when we did last April & I just don't wanna feel bewildered again. Like Grigs what's going here dude?  Just make me pleased for a change. I can dream right? 

 

In all seriousness, I admire how you look for the best traits in players that you yourself would have never chosen as our GM if you got to submit the name of your choice. 

[southwest1]

22 minutes ago, Dustin said:

I dont see how Grigson spends a first round pick on a center after 2 years of saying how he doesn't value the position. Seems like a smokescreen, and I don't say that often. 

Considering that Grigs was drafted in 1995 by the Bengals as an offensive tackle, it seems astonishing that Ryan would underestimate the need for a quality center when you take into account that the best ones know exactly where to slide the protection to. 

 

I'm not doubting you Dustin just perplexed as to why a GM would consistently downplay acquiring a premier center especially if Coach Pagano has been trying to run the ball consistently since he was hired in 2012. 

[Track Guy]

If spending a first round pick on a center is what it takes to get us to be able to run the football, then I am all for it. 

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I take it that you're not beaming with confidence with the possibility of a Ryan Kelly selection on Thursday? 

 

When Dustin or krunk have doubts that makes me nervous. Just sayin'...

I don't know how much you value my draft opinion SW, but I don't like this either. This isn't what I wanted to see or hear. I have Kelly as a 2nd round pick, who I would love there, but would be an unmitigated disaster in the 1st round. We should be going Billings or Conklin, especially if we aren't interested in a pass rusher.

[funktacious2]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

 "Sources on the coaching staff tell me they're not set on drafting an offensive tackle at any point in this draft and instead expect to go center and edge-rusher in some order with the first two picks".

 

I guess the writer feels that sources in this case far outweigh common sense.  He writes this as if it is a surprise that the Colts would take an interior lineman over a Tackle.

 

If sources don't indicate Tackle, and common sense doesn't indicate Tackle, then on what basis are media types speculating that the Colts will take a Tackle?   Apparently, it isn't sense or sources.

I wouldn't go too far as to say this writer isn't using common sense. A lot a analysts have us taking an OT. I took what the writer said as more of a way to combat assumptions we'll take an OT, than making a revelation. Just my two cents.

[funktacious2]

1 minute ago, funktacious2 said:

Delete

 

[krunk]

I think I'll just wait till Thursday and see what happens.  People writing all kind of stuff right now and every one of them keep mocking some kind of lineman to us in the first round.

[krunk]

So far it's been Taylor Decker, Jason Spriggs, Ryan Kelly, Jack Conklin, Cody Whitehair.  List goes on and on

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

I dont see how Grigson spends a first round pick on a center after 2 years of saying how he doesn't value the position. Seems like a smokescreen, and I don't say that often. 

I thought about that too. He's said he sees value in the later rounds at that position. And based on who they've shown interest in, it'd be hard to take Kelly over Floyd, Ragland. I think Martin, Seumalo, and Boehm are starting quality centers.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

I thought about that too. He's said he sees value in the later rounds at that position. And based on who they've shown interest in, it'd be hard to take Kelly over Floyd, Ragland. I think Martin, Seumalo, and Boehm are starting quality centers.

Thought Seumalo was a Guard in College? Does he translate better to Center in the NFL?

[Dustin]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

I thought about that too. He's said he sees value in the later rounds at that position. And based on who they've shown interest in, it'd be hard to take Kelly over Floyd, Ragland. I think Martin, Seumalo, and Boehm are starting quality centers.

 

Let me say this, if the Colts do select a center in the first round, I think it really speaks to how neutered Grigson has become since the "re-alliance". There's no planet in which the Ryan Grigson I know would use a first round pick on a center. It's one of the few things he's actually right about. 

[Defjamz26]

17 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Thought Seumalo was a Guard in College? Does he translate better to Center in the NFL?

That's what his NFL.com write up suggests. That he'll be a great center because of his ability to anchor and core strength.

16 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

Let me say this, if the Colts do select a center in the first round, I think it really speaks to how neutered Grigson has become since the "re-alliance". There's no planet in which the Ryan Grigson I know would use a first round pick on a center. It's one of the few things he's actually right about. 

My thoughts exactly. At 18 overall? With a very talented defensive class as well. If he's going to go with a head scratcher pick, I'd prefer it be Karl Joseph, Vernon Butler, etc...

 

I just don't see how Grigson would have a center rated that high on his board. 

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

Considering that Grigs was drafted in 1995 by the Bengals as an offensive tackle, it seems astonishing that Ryan would underestimate the need for a quality center when you take into account that the best ones know exactly where to slide the protection to. 

 

I'm not doubting you Dustin just perplexed as to why a GM would consistently downplay acquiring a premier center especially if Coach Pagano has been trying to run the ball consistently since he was hired in 2012. 

Playing center is the easiest position on the offensive line.

[krunk]

44 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Thought Seumalo was a Guard in College? Does he translate better to Center in the NFL?

He's played every position on the O line

[Yoshinator]

Just now, krunk said:

He's played every position on the O line

That's very valuable then. Love the position versatility. If we could get him in the 4th or 5th, it'd be great.

[richard pallo]

3 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Yes, that's my point.  IF he's as good as they say.

Irving was playing behind Mack.  They wanted to play him.  This year he probably goes back to C.

[OffensivelyPC]

5 hours ago, BProland85 said:

I'd still love to see a trade down and get a dominant DL player like Butler or Billings. Them round 2 get Noah Spence who I think will be there. Then get Austin Blythe in the 7th or Jack Allen in the 4th. 

Well, trading down seems counterproductive to getting dominant players dont you think?

[OffensivelyPC]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

I'd say it's mostly laziness and ignorance.

Its because they know center at 18 is a terrible value so they save face by going lineman, but something that makes more sense from a value perspective.

[Gavin]

6 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Its because they know center at 18 is a terrible value so they save face by going lineman, but something that makes more sense from a value perspective.

Nah I think most talking heads think Decker genuinely will fix the Colts o line issues. But for those that actually watch more then a few highlights of Colts games here and there who actually know Decker wont

[richard pallo]

Center is a vital position on the OL. If it was so easy a position to play we should have been able to find one by now. We tried with mid round picks and it didn't work. Teams do draft centers in the 1st round.  Cameron Irving last year at 19 comes to mind.  I can't see reaching for an ER in this weak ER class who would probably be a 3rd. down pass rusher.  That's pretty poor value for a mid 1st. round pick.  If you want to go defense I would rather take one of the top NT or DT who could start right away.  That being said taking the top center, Kelly, or guard, Whitehair, makes a lot of sense and would improve the team more than an ER who most likely won't start. 

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I get both sides of that argument & you're right odds are INDY won't be picking that high next yr. I keep thinking back to 2006 when the NY Jets grabbed Nick Mangold at center & he's been a stud at that position ever since. I can't dismiss that. 

 

Finding another Jeff Saturday the way we did is pretty darn rare though & not likely to happen again with similar success dgb. A quality center cannot be underestimated. Maybe INDY needs to get our version of Nick Mangold in Colts country now. 

The odds are about the same either way. ROH caliber players are a long shot either way. First rd centers are just so rare. People are more forgiving of you pass on a pro bowl caliber center for a pass rusher that flames out than if you pass on a pro bowl pass rusher for an center that does. I'd say center and rb have about the same value in the NFL. Just not a lot of separation from a good one to an avg one where at other positions the margins are more clear. That said like an AP if you have a stud you find a way to take them. In the end I will trust our staff. Hard to argue since they have all the info but it would be hard for me to value Kelly as the 18th best player in the draft and the difference in what we might get from him and one in rds two three or later I don't think are as big as say other positions. 

[Coltfreak]

2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I hear ya krunk. I just don't want another Philip Dorsett hand scratcher draft experience again. Now, I like Dorsett's personality & work ethic. Nothing against the man personally. I just was surprised we did when we did last April & I just don't wanna feel bewildered again. Like Grigs what's going here dude?  Just make me pleased for a change. I can dream right? 

 

In all seriousness, I admire how you look for the best traits in players that you yourself would have never chosen as our GM if you got to submit the name of your choice. 

Dorsett will make you eat your doubting words this yr 

[krunk]

ZWhy does

17 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Center is a vital position on the OL. If it was so easy a position to play we should have been able to find one by now. We tried with mid round picks and it didn't work. Teams do draft centers in the 1st round.  Cameron Irving last year at 19 comes to mind.  I can't see reaching for an ER in this weak ER class who would probably be a 3rd. down pass rusher.  That's pretty poor value for a mid 1st. round pick.  If you want to go defense I would rather take one of the top NT or DT who could start right away.  That being said taking the top center, Kelly, or guard, Whitehair, makes a lot of sense and would improve the team more than an ER who most likely won't start. 

Why does everything that has an issue need to be fixed with a first round pick? Next if we get a couple bad punters people will be talking about we need to spend a first rounder on punter because the low round punters haven't worked. Tons of examples of low round centers that teams have used to go to the super bowl. And there's plenty of very good mid rounders in this draft. We have really only had one drafted center at the position. The rest have been FA castoffs. There really has been only one respectable attempt at filing that position and it mostly failed due to the guy being injured too much.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

 "Sources on the coaching staff tell me they're not set on drafting an offensive tackle at any point in this draft and instead expect to go center and edge-rusher in some order with the first two picks".

 

I guess the writer feels that sources in this case far outweigh common sense.  He writes this as if it is a surprise that the Colts would take an interior lineman over a Tackle.

 

If sources don't indicate Tackle, and common sense doesn't indicate Tackle, then on what basis are media types speculating that the Colts will take a Tackle?   Apparently, it isn't sense or sources.

 

The thinking is this....

 

The best lineman are typically....    tackles.   

 

That's why some teams don't draft guards,  they draft tackles and move them inside to guard.    Both Conklin and Decker COULD play guard.    But they're better tackles.     And the reality is,  outside of Indianapolis,  no one has an idea about Joe Reitz or Denzelle Good.

 

Agree or not,   that's the rationale.

 

[NewColtsFan]

 

For what it's worth,  a quick scan of what the top evaluators think of Ryan Kelly shows this.....

 

Mike Mayock         15th

Mel Kiper               18th

Daniel Jeremiah    21st

Gil Brandt              25th

CBS Sports           25th

Todd McShay        32nd

Bucky Brooks        45th

 

So whether you love him or not, Ryan Kelly is thought of as a 1st round caliber player by 6 of the top 7 evaluators of talent by the top websites covering football.     That's NFL.com,  ESPN and CBS Sports.

 

If the Colts take him,  I don't think there will be much talk of reaching.   And while I have posted that I'd prefer to trade back and take him,  if the Colts are worried about losing him and he's their target -- then you draft him.

 

All that said....   I'm not 100% convinced Kelly is our guy.   I think there are backers of guys like Karl Joseph and Eli Apple, plus a few others.      

 

Fun times ahead!!      

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The thinking is this....

 

The best lineman are typically....    tackles.   

 

That's why some teams don't draft guards,  they draft tackles and move them inside to guard.    Both Conklin and Decker COULD play guard.    But they're better tackles.     And the reality is,  outside of Indianapolis,  no one has an idea about Joe Reitz or Denzelle Good.

 

Agree or not,   that's the rationale.

 

The other reason is even though we have a serviceable tackle we don't have that right tackle position locked down. Sure we could get by this year but what about next and the next and year 3? When your this high up you have an opportunity to take a valuable tackle and anchor both sides of that OL and then you can use middle rd picks to fill those interior positions that are typically easier to fill and much cheaper. Basically they are saying we could fix the hardest part of our OL this year at 18 where we likely won't pick again. While I agree RT isn't a more pressing need it's still very much a need long term and could be fixed (most believe) by one of these tackles. It would be hard to pass say on a Conklin but it all comes down to who is there at our pick. I'm not opposed to taking a tackle if the value is there and say the better pass rushers go quickly persay. I think what they see is that there isn't likely a pass rusher there with the value at 18 and of course most interior lineman wouldn't go til rd 2 so a tackle is the highest valued position available that we do have need at. We all know our interior line is a bigger problem but let's not act like RT is locked down. It's merely not as bad as center guard lol.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

5 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yes. But I think his point was that the QB is top priority. If you can find a center who can make all the line calls and keep your QB clean then its justifiable to take a center high. An elite center like that is more valuable than a top CB, DT, WR,etc...

Exactly. He not only run & pass blocks but will help Luck with the line calls and reading defenses.

[Surge89]

I wanna know who did the advertising for Kelly.  I need that man's phone number to advertise my Network consulting company.

 

He's marginally better than his peers but everyone is inflating him to the next coming of Webster. That's some impressive inflation lol.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2634911-scouting-notebook-matt-millers-final-team-by-team-reports-jared-goff-qa

 

 

He also mocks Kelly to the Colts in his latest mock draft.

 

I guess that now means Kelly is griggs radar! Lol.

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Surge89 said:

I wanna know who did the advertising for Kelly.  I need that man's phone number to advertise my Network consulting company.

 

He's marginally better than his peers but everyone is inflating him to the next coming of Webster. That's some impressive inflation lol.

First it was Noah spence now it's kelly and  next it will be Karl Joseph is the next bob sanders. Before we are on the clock this will all be full circle and everyone will be back on Decker lol. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

10 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

I guess that now means Kelly is griggs radar! Lol.

 

.....thats "off of griggs radar"

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Let me say this, if the Colts do select a center in the first round, I think it really speaks to how neutered Grigson has become since the "re-alliance". There's no planet in which the Ryan Grigson I know would use a first round pick on a center. It's one of the few things he's actually right about. 

The original quote is a botched up mess.  Basically, it says that sources say that the Colts are not interested in tackle at all this draft but instead are interested in interior lineman or a pass rusher in some priority with the first two picks. (as if that isn't common knowledge...which it should be)

 

I'm pretty sure that Grigson values pass rushers more than centers.  He'd probably select a DT over a C in the first round this year.  And T isn't even on the radar.

[BOTT]

6 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yes. But I think his point was that the QB is top priority. If you can find a center who can make all the line calls and keep your QB clean then its justifiable to take a center high. An elite center like that is more valuable than a top CB, DT, WR,etc...

Said no one ever

[aReggie7]

How much will the type of lineman the Colts look for change with Chud's offense and Philbin as the line coach? I know Kelly is the best rated center but does he fit what the Colts are looking to do? I think this part gets overlooked.

 

 

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, ar88 said:

How much will the type of lineman the Colts look for change with Chud's offense and Philbin as the line coach? I know Kelly is the best rated center but does he fit what the Colts are looking to do? I think this part gets overlooked.

 

 

Not really. Alabama runs a Zone Blocking Scheme just the same as we will under Chud.

[Hoose]

For the life of me, I don't understand the antagonism against Kelly. He fixes a five year problem; the team has no fix otherwise; pick him #1 and move on to the other needs. Problem solved. Honest to goodness: if he's rated the 25th best choice and somebody else at a position off far less need is at 18, according to many on this Board, you pick the other person. Give me a break. You go for the serious need if its a close call on need vs. highest value. 

 

Memorize this guy:  RYAN KELLY. New Colts Center. For the next 10 years. 

 

 

[aaron11]

4 hours ago, Track Guy said:

If spending a first round pick on a center is what it takes to get us to be able to run the football, then I am all for it. 

it cant hurt, but RT is the lead run blocker.  reiz did ok in pass protection but didnt get much going on the ground