Why didn't you all tell me Karl Joseph was this good?

[Dustin]

I haven't watched any safeties because I didn't really expect us to take one high in the draft this year on account of Geathers and Adam. And then I heard that the Colts were doing a ton of work with Karl Joseph so I popped on the footage and this dude is fantastic. 

 

Fast, quick, fluid, aggressive, destructive. Typically these power-hitting enforcer safeties are terrible in coverage, but Joseph moves well and is even competent matching up 1-on-1 in man coverage. Bob Sanders is usually the go to comparison for small enforcer safeties, but this dude really does remind me of him.

 

The only weaknesses I see are he sometimes gets a little over-aggressive going for the tackle and the fact he's a little on the small size. Also the fact that he tore his ACL and might not be ready week 1, which isn't a big deal because we already have Adams and Geathers. 

 

I would love to grab this guy at 18 (but ideally I'd take him in a trade back). This is the type of guy our defense lacks. 

[PeterBowman]

I'd have no problem with him at 18...let him groom under Adams this year and I can picture him and Geathers next year. Having pretty much 2 enforcers in the secondary.

Look at it this way....the Colts need playmakers on D.

 

What is Joseph?        A playmaker.

[Dilger85]

I agree that he is a great prospect and that ideally a trade down scenario would be extremely beneficial.  The Steelers have apparently did a lot of work on him as well.  He also has very good ball skills.  The value seems to be there for this guy versus reaching for a pass rusher/interior lineman.

[Dustin]

1 minute ago, PeterBowman said:

I'd have no problem with him at 18...let him groom under Adams this year and I can picture him and Geathers next year. Having pretty much 2 enforcers in the secondary.

Look at it this way....the Colts need playmakers on D.

 

What is Joseph?        A playmaker.

 

I'd start Joseph over Geathers tbh. Geathers is perfect for the nickle-lb role, but I don't think he's a full time safety. 

[OffensivelyPC]

Well you kinda disappeared for a while!

[Traines]

Hell yeah, I am a huge fan of Karl!  I think him and Geathers would make a formidable duo in the secondary...either way, Joseph at 18 would be awesome...trade down a few spots, even better!

[Defjamz26]

As long as they force him to be a FS. We don't need him running with reckless abandon into ball carriers trying to kill them with every hit. He needs to learn how to tackle formerly. Aside from that he's pretty good. You can also play him as a nickel CB on certain packages because he has experience there.

[BleedBlu8792]

8 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

As long as they force him to be a FS. We don't need him running with reckless abandon into ball carriers trying to kill them with every hit. He needs to learn how to tackle formerly. Aside from that he's pretty good. You can also play him as a nickel CB on certain packages because he has experience there.

 

As I've said, you sit him in center field and tell him to go get the ball.. To me, he's got Ed Reed-type ability and our backhalf could desperately use it.

[B~Town]

Love me some hard nosed punishing players on defense .  Joseph is the type of player the Colts need to draft if they ever want to have that monster defense Pagano talks about . 

[Track Guy]

Joseph is a good player. He's had some injury issues, but on the field I think he's the top safety in the draft (unless you count Ramsey as a safety I guess?) He's shorter than ideal, but he can ball.

[NewColtsFan]

 

In the last two weeks or so,  I've been reading more and more about Joseph.     He's in the middle of my 1st round.       I think he's very much on our radar.      I think if he hadn't gotten hurt,  he'd be ranked much higher,  that's why I think we're interested.     A chance to steal a player with major talent at the price of an 18th overall pick.

 

Just curious,  but what are you thoughts on Neal and Bell?

 

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

I haven't watched any safeties because I didn't really expect us to take one high in the draft this year on account of Geathers and Adam. And then I heard that the Colts were doing a ton of work with Karl Joseph so I popped on the footage and this dude is fantastic. 

 

Fast, quick, fluid, aggressive, destructive. Typically these power-hitting enforcer safeties are terrible in coverage, but Joseph moves well and is even competent matching up 1-on-1 in man coverage. Bob Sanders is usually the go to comparison for small enforcer safeties, but this dude really does remind me of him.

 

The only weaknesses I see are he sometimes gets a little over-aggressive going for the tackle and the fact he's a little on the small size. Also the fact that he tore his ACL and might not be ready week 1, which isn't a big deal because we already have Adams and Geathers. 

 

I would love to grab this guy at 18 (but ideally I'd take him in a trade back). This is the type of guy our defense lacks. 

Played 240 snaps in 2015 according to PFF stats and had the highest grade in the country (Though they don't mention the grade) through those 240 snaps. Should be a great pick in a trade back but I think we end up picking someone at 18...Ranked 31 on PFF's top 150 draft board https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/04/07/draft-pff-draft-board-3-0-top-150-nfl-prospects/

 

NFL.com comparison is Antoine Bethea, I think he will be better then Bethea ever really was but I think that's partially because Bethea was not used up around the LOS nearly as much as he probably should have been...Particularly after the regime change

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/karl-joseph?id=2555342

[Traines]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2634039-despite-injury-history-wvus-karl-joseph-is-the-drafts-top-safety-prospect

It's Bleacher Report, but it is a decent read.

[Colts_Fan12]

I likejoseph but I dont see the drop off in talent as that big between him and Thomson plus I like Thomson a lil more cause of his size and he can be had in the 2nd 

[Traines]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I likejoseph but I dont see the drop off in talent as that big between him and Thomson plus I like Thomson a lil more cause of his size and he can be had in the 2nd 

Then I would recommend getting an eye exam

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Traines said:

Then I would recommend getting an eye exam

It's not with a little coaching from Pagano he will be good plus he won't have as much of an injury factor  

[Dustin]

27 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

In the last two weeks or so,  I've been reading more and more about Joseph.     He's in the middle of my 1st round.       I think he's very much on our radar.      I think if he hadn't gotten hurt,  he'd be ranked much higher,  that's why I think we're interested.     A chance to steal a player with major talent at the price of an 18th overall pick.

 

Just curious,  but what are you thoughts on Neal and Bell?

 

 

I like Bell as a round 2 guy. I don't see game-changing ability, but he'll probably be an above-average safety for a long time and carve out a nice career. A little hesitant and doesn't play downhill with the aggressiveness you like. Kinda lets the ball carrier come to him in the run game. Not a very reliable tackler. 

 

Haven't watched Neal. 

[jskinnz]

Captain Obvious here - the Colts are in dire need of defensive playmakers and I think that is an apt description of Joseph.  He totally reminds me of Bob Sanders.  

[jvan1973]

He is very good.     He will need to stop dropping and leading with his helmet so much though.     Penalties and injuries waiting to happen

[pgt_rob]

YES, love Karl Joseph. Dude plays mean and looks to be a very solid tackler. I wouldn't mind him at #18.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Dustin said:

 

I like Bell as a round 2 guy. I don't see game-changing ability, but he'll probably be an above-average safety for a long time and carve out a nice career. A little hesitant and doesn't play downhill with the aggressiveness you like. Kinda lets the ball carrier come to him in the run game. Not a very reliable tackler. 

 

Haven't watched Neal. 

 

Yes,  thanks.

 

I have both Neal and Bell as 2nd round guys.      I think Neal is 39 and Bell is 49.     

 

I think the key for Joseph is.....    can he stay healthy.      Hopefully he doesn't turn into Bob Sanders 2.0 from a health standpoint.

 

But as a player --- wow.

 

[Manning1887]

I think I would rather take a flyer on someone like Kevin Byard in the 5th round. 

 

Personally, I think Junior Sylvester has the potential to be a good safety in this league. We signed him as a rookie free agent last year. I am not sure if we will try him at safety or keep him at inside linebacker. 

[bertjones7]

I'm a huge fan as well. I believe Louis riddick said he would be his #1 overall db (over Ramsey) if he wasn't injured. 

[Gavin]

4 minutes ago, Manning1887 said:

I think I would rather take a flyer on someone like Kevin Byard in the 5th round. 

 

Personally, I think Junior Sylvester has the potential to be a good safety in this league. We signed him as a rookie free agent last year. I am not sure if we will try him at safety or keep him at inside linebacker. 

There is zero chance the Colts try him at safety....he weights 242lbs, Besides I'm sure they have every intention of starting Geathers

[DougDew]

I don't care for smaller safeties throwing their bodies around like bigger guys.  If he played centerfield ball hawk, I'd be satisfied with him.  But he wouldn't go above the second round then.

 

The question is for me, can he play the same style in the NFL as he did in college?  If he tries and gets hurt too much or is ineffective, then does the physicality he showed in college relate well to the NFL?  If not, then his first round grade goes out the window, IMO.

[ztboiler]

Ed Reed was 5'11" 205...Joseph is known as a hitter, but also a playmaking ballhawk...we can make this work.

[UKColt13]

This dude is for real. I'm not saying he's as good as him but he has the potential to be the next Ed Reed. 

 

To sum him up in one word, "Playmaker".

 

I'd be down with taking him at 18. Id be happy. Id be ecstatic if we managed to get him later though. His knee might scare some teams off.

[BlueShoe]

6 hours ago, Dustin said:

Why didn't you all tell me Karl Joseph was this good?

 

Karl Joseph is that good.

[Manning1887]

3 hours ago, Gavin said:

There is zero chance the Colts try him at safety....he weights 242lbs, Besides I'm sure they have every intention of starting Geathers

 

He must have put on some serious weight. I am fairly certain he was around 225 lbs last year at this time. He is only around 6'0" tall. 

[krunk]

My question with Joseph is how long will he be good? Talent is there for sure, but I question the durability.

[throwing BBZ]

5 hours ago, Gavin said:

Played 240 snaps in 2015 according to PFF stats and had the highest grade in the country (Though they don't mention the grade) through those 240 snaps. Should be a great pick in a trade back but I think we end up picking someone at 18...Ranked 31 on PFF's top 150 draft board https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/04/07/draft-pff-draft-board-3-0-top-150-nfl-prospects/

 

NFL.com comparison is Antoine Bethea, I think he will be better then Bethea ever really was but I think that's partially because Bethea was not used up around the LOS nearly as much as he probably should have been...Particularly after the regime change

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/karl-joseph?id=2555342

 

 Good grief! Bethea`s game WAS up front.

[BProland85]

Would love to have Joseph, but Indy could easily trade down 8 spots or so and still get him.

[BOTT]

Wasn't his injury non contact?  I don't know if it's fair, but those guys scare me.

[Superman]

11 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

I like Bell as a round 2 guy. I don't see game-changing ability, but he'll probably be an above-average safety for a long time and carve out a nice career. A little hesitant and doesn't play downhill with the aggressiveness you like. Kinda lets the ball carrier come to him in the run game. Not a very reliable tackler. 

 

Haven't watched Neal. 

 

I think Bell is more corner than safety. He's this year's Damarious Randall, IMO.

 

As for Joseph, you are very late. He'd be getting a lot more buzz if not for the ACL. He's probably the best true safety in this draft, if you have Ramsey at corner. I don't think the value is there at #18, but more and more people are talking about him toward the end of the first round.

[loudnproudcolt]

I would like Joseph if we don't get Kelly. Only problem with Joseph from what I hear is he won't be ready to play by the start of the season. He will play, but there is a question of when due to the knee? Still love the guy! He would be our defensive QB and leader. He is smaller, but it gives us someone like Seattle's Earl Thomas. I know Sherman is good, but Thomas is the reason that CB's can take chances because he has their backs!

[wig]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think Bell is more corner than safety. He's this year's Damarious Randall, IMO.

 

As for Joseph, you are very late. He'd be getting a lot more buzz if not for the ACL. He's probably the best true safety in this draft, if you have Ramsey at corner. I don't think the value is there at #18, but more and more people are talking about him toward the end of the first round.

 

I don't think there's great value at 18, but I don't see it as a reach either if his medicals are fine.  He'll be picked earlier than expected, I think. 

 

As far as the Colts, I'm not sure if it's the right move. Grigs HAS to get a productive player in the first. They have to produce. With the injury history is taking a risk. I don't want him to be hesitant when drafting,  but it has to factor in. 

[Archer]

Yeah, Joseph's my #1 wildcard pick for the Colts at #18.  He might be the best chance at getting an impact defender in this draft.  My #2 out-of-left-field pick for us would be OL Jason Spriggs.  He'd be athletically ideal to play RG for us in our more ZBS-based system.  And he could simultaneously increase depth at OT and eventually start there after a few years, enhancing his value.

[Superman]

6 hours ago, wig said:

 

I don't think there's great value at 18, but I don't see it as a reach either if his medicals are fine.  He'll be picked earlier than expected, I think. 

 

As far as the Colts, I'm not sure if it's the right move. Grigs HAS to get a productive player in the first. They have to produce. With the injury history is taking a risk. I don't want him to be hesitant when drafting,  but it has to factor in. 

 

Yeah when there are players with no injury concerns, it's hard to go with Joseph. But if he's there at #32, maybe they would trade back up for him. Maybe even #31, that way you have the fifth year option. 

[Traines]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

Yeah when there are players with no injury concerns, it's hard to go with Joseph. But if he's there at #32, maybe they would trade back up for him. Maybe even #31, that way you have the fifth year option. 

Easy there, you're getting me excited ...somehow Rankins/Lawson slip to 18...trade up for Joseph ...just setting myself up for disappointment, but might as well dream before reality sets in...

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 0:47 PM, jvan1973 said:

He is very good.     He will need to stop dropping and leading with his helmet so much though.     Penalties and injuries waiting to happen

 

I agree.I would love for us to get him, but there is concern on him staying on the field due to possible injuries and suspensions for his violent hits. Also he may miss early part of season and coupled with what i said above I don' think he goes in mid rd.1.I could be wrong though.