US Appeals Court Reinstates Brady's Suspension

[Qwiz]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Without Brady I could see a win for you guys. It is in Foxboro though. I think they lose to the Cards definitely.

Yeah playing in Foxborough is no joke. But the Cardinals had a strong chance of winning even when Brady was still the starter for that game. 

[csmopar]

listening to nfl radio, they're reporting that Brady as of now intends on still fighting this.....

[dgambill]

15 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

I just heard about this, interesting, I hope to have some time tonight to pull the opinion and read it. 

From everything I read they weren't focused on so much the facts of what happened or didn't or the process that Goodell and NFL used...just the fact that the NFLPA and NFL negotiated the CBA that gave commissioner power to levy penalties etc. It had little to do with Brady cheating or not and the fact that Goodell is within his right to level the suspension and if the players wanted it different they had their chance when they negotiated the CBA. Imo this will strengthen Goodell going forward until the next CBA to hand down his penalties. Perhaps if a player wasn't a member of the players union etc they could fight this but the players handed over the power to the NFL on this one and while it might not be fair they gave the up to probably get more money in their pockets by getting concessions from the NFL owners in another area. I think the first judge looked more into was the process fair or the findings from the NFL fair and legit and this court was looking at if the NFL was within its power to penalize or not. I think it was the right ruling even if I think a lot of faulty investigating and information was used to come to the Commissioners conclusion....over all way too much about too little. I think if Brady and Pats cooperate..this is a fine and we never heard about it again...but like I said...it took on a life of its own when they started obstructing and likely made the situation worse.

[IndyRC_Racer]

Too bad there isn't a short word limit on individual posts. Not looking forward to the forthcoming walls of text from patriot posters on this subject.

[dgambill]

17 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

I have not read the opinion yet, but I am not sure why the NFL would want to settle.  Perhaps only in a way that it would be clear than they are in no way do they yield any position gain, for future cases, from the opinion.  I hope to be able to read the opinion tonight.

 

There is a chance it might be heard by the entire panel of the Appeals Court given its importance and my points below.

 

As for the Supreme Court hearing this case, there is that lingering Appeals case from MInn. (8th Circuit).   If that Appeals panel agrees with the NFLPA, then one would have a split in the circuits.  It would be especially difficult if that panels rules 3-0 in favor of the NFLPA's position.   Which would then overall would have 6 out of 8 judges (two trial and four appellate) ruling in favor of the NFLPA.

 

Another thing that would make the split dicey is the NFL is unquestionably a nationwide entity and this is not an issue local to just 2nd circuit, where no one would care what happens in Minnesota and the 8th circuit.

 

As the split could cause a problem with NFLPA and NFL respectfully going forum shopping the next time Goodell steps out of line and issues an sanction that is not in line with the NFL has done before with prior cases.   The NFLPA running to the 8th Circuit and the NFL running to the 2nd circuit.

 

The 8th circuit could rule in line with the 2nd circuit, time will tell.

     

Possible...I don't follow all the NFLPA and NFL court cases. I'm sure he will fight it....not sure how and where it gets heard...he still has a shot to win which is why I could see them settle at this point. He say he is going to fight and the NFL saying if he doesn't appeal we just cut this to a game and both sides move on. It hurts both of them. Brady has to say he will fight it to have any leverage..and I'm sure the NFLPA wants him too as well....time will tell. I can't imagine this going into the season and then him get a suspension during the playoffs...that would be horrible for EVERYONE. The NFL is a way way better product with Tom on the field. Its in everyone's best interest to get this behind us. Tom is a great player and I want to watch him play and go for history....not see him sidelined when the most important games come around. I'm probably biased being a Colts fan but I'm a football fan too..and I want to see the best quality football I can and that's with Tom playing...so if they can settle and get this to a game or something its in my best interest lol.

[bababooey]

31 minutes ago, dgambill said:

It is possible that they settle and reduce the suspension to avoid having to go to the full Appeals court. No way this gets heard by the Supreme Court. They are short a justice and will have a HUGE backlog of cases that are WAY WAY WAY more important than this one. I could see Goodell cut it to two or one game to avoid any court cases....it would be in both parties interest to move on....neither look good in this case.

If you think the NFL will reduce this after finally winning after Brady taking them to court for over a year on it you're crazy. His recourse for now is a 121 yard hail Mary. Not getting to the supreme court because it's a ridiculous lawsuit that doesn't affect thousands of people, the SC is missing a member so a tie brings it back down to the second circuit court and most of them would have to think the second circuit court ruled in error to begin with to even consider it. He could ask the second circuit court to re-hear it which would yield the same result. He can get a stay if he chooses to appeal to the second circuit court but if they make up their mind mid season then that's worse than taking off the first four games (esp if it's the playoffs).

 

Sit back and enjoy, not a thing to worry about.

[ReMeDy]

The Cardinals are scary good under Bruce Arians. They had some regular season highlight performances, score-wise. The Cardinals will be the Patriots toughest opponent, followed by Houston (due to them having Brock Osweiler, who btw beat the Patriots last season), Miami (who generally plays the Patriots fairly tough, even if they lose), and Buffalo (Rex Ryan makes life hell against young opposing QB's).

None of those four games are sure-fire wins.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

The Cardinals are scary good under Bruce Arians. They had some regular season highlight performances, score-wise. The Cardinals will be the Patriots toughest opponent, followed by Houston (due to them having Brock Osweiler, who btw beat the Patriots last season), Miami (who generally plays the Patriots fairly tough, even if they lose), and Buffalo (Rex Ryan makes life hell against young opposing QB's).

None of those four games are sure-fire wins.

I think the Cards is a loss for sure. The other 3 are in Foxboro but I think teams like the Bills and Dolphins are licking their chops knowing this will be their best chance in years to win at that stadium with no Tom. Texans, if they are any good should really beat them as well.

[ReMeDy]

5 hours ago, chad hugo said:

Kraft...

 

 

To Bush's credit, his reflexes are insane. I'm convinced he could be Neo from the Matrix. The second one he didn't bother to duck because he knew it would miss. He's that good.

[OffensivelyPC]

Lol this is the Ct. of Appeals saying, quit bringing this *ish our way because we don't care.

 

" Given this substantial deference, we conclude that this case is 29 not an exceptional one that warrants vacatur.    Our review of the 30 record yields the firm conclusion that the Commissioner properly 31 exercised his broad discretion to resolve an intramural controversy 32 between the League and a player. "

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

 

To Bush's credit, his reflexes are insane. I'm convinced he could be Neo from the Matrix. The second one he didn't bother to duck because he knew it would miss. He's that good.

The way he dodged that first one, Bruce Lee couldn't of hit him  

[ReMeDy]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The way he dodged that first one, Bruce Lee couldn't of hit him  

 

What's even more fascinating is he's smiling after he dodges it, like he's thinking, "What, you call THAT a throw?"

[csmopar]

I'd love nothing more than to see them lose all 4 and then a few more and then somehow miss the playoffs....... 

 

Sadly, they are far more than capable of doing 12 and 0 in the last 12 games and with Hoodie at the controls, it's possible they could go 2 and 2 or 3 and 1 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I'd love nothing more than to see them lose all 4 and then a few more and then somehow miss the playoffs....... 

 

Sadly, they are far more than capable of doing 12 and 0 in the last 12 games and with Hoodie at the controls, it's possible they could go 2 and 2 or 3 and 1 

Those first 4 games will be interesting. If they go 1-3 or even 2-2 it could end up costing them HFA as well if they lose 2 or 3 with Brady back.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think most Pats fan and I can even say this if I was a fan of Tom Brady I would've wanted him found not guilty as well. Because even if he gets 1 game, he still loses because he was found guilty now and would still be serving a suspension. I think the only reason why Tom fought this is because his legacy is important to him and I am sure he knows if found guilty of this and serving a suspension that a lot of people could then call him a proven cheater. Just opinion's but that is what I believe. I also think Tom thought he could win this because he is Tom Brady/one of the faces of the NFL with great lawyers.

He was already found "to be generally aware" or whatnot from the report. Basically he was already found "guilty" I use that term very very loosely by the NFL. The courts don't find him guilty or not. They just decide if the NFL has the authority and used a fair process in determining his penalty. There is no guilt or innocence in these court processes. People need to realize this. It's fairness and authority. Under the CBA the appeals court said the NFL was within its right so that's what was decided. He can still appeal and this could go on but to what end. If he is truly going to play for several more years it's best to get it over and put this narrative behind him. Quite frankly in the public opinion that matters to him (Boston fans and sports reporters) he has won the fight so he doesn't need to win anymore. He fought and won in their eyes and that is all that matters because they determine his legacy not the rest of us.

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He was already found "to be generally aware" or whatnot from the report. Basically he was already found "guilty" I use that term very very loosely by the NFL. The courts don't find him guilty or not. They just decide if the NFL has the authority and used a fair process in determining his penalty. There is no guilt or innocence in these court processes. People need to realize this. It's fairness and authority. Under the CBA the appeals court said the NFL was within its right so that's what was decided. He can still appeal and this could go on but to what end. If he is truly going to play for several more years it's best to get it over and put this narrative behind him. Quite frankly in the public opinion that matters to him (Boston fans and sports reporters) he has won the fight so he doesn't need to win anymore. He fought and won in their eyes and that is all that matters because they determine his legacy not the rest of us.

Pretty Good Post but I think had Tom lost the first appeal most Patriots fans would've defended him anyway regardless. Of course his legacy in Boston will never be tarnished because they have blind love for the guy much like Colts fans have for Peyton. Outside of the cities you play for though your legacy is tarnished if you cheat the game, cant sugarcoat that. If Peyton is ever found guilty of doing HGH I would say the same thing about Peyton's legacy, Peyton's Legacy in Denver though. He was never accused of doing anything as a Colt. His legacy as a Colt is clean for sure!

[ReMeDy]

4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Pretty sure all teams do everything they can to win games,  especially the first month of the season

 

Yea good point. The great thing about the first month of the season is everyone is tied. Everyone feels invincible and believe this might be their season to either keep winning or turn their ship around. The Patriots will be in for a rough four weeks, especially against the Cardinals, and if the Patriots start 0-1 like I think they will, even the teams who open up 0-1 will be licking their chops to prove it's just a fluke they started 0-1, and beating the Patriots will be their way of vindicating themselves.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

 

Yea good point. The great thing about the first month of the season is everyone is tied. Everyone feels invincible and believe this might be their season to either keep winning or turn their ship around. The Patriots will be in for a rough four weeks, especially against the Cardinals.

We need to take care of business of a Detroit team that isn't really that good on opening day. Starting 0-1/0-2 and digging these holes aren't good at all.

[Coltfreak]

6 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

No and I prefer it that way.  

 

Only the NCAA is dumb enough to think that taking away championships and taking away wins suffices as a punishment.  The wins are about the momentary happiness for fans in that particular moment.  It does nothing several years after the fact to try and deny that this specific team won.  And it does nothing to hand it to another team.  (Incidently the NCAA doesn't even hand the wins to the opposing teams, they instead pretend like those games never happened.)

 

Furthermore while there are a lot of games in which perhaps this might have made a difference (perhaps the game against the Ravens in the divisional round), it seems unlikely to me that the AFC championship game was one of those cases.  

 

I personally think 4 games is an awful light penalty for cheating via messing with the ball AND THEN covering up the evidence by destroying your phone.  Especially the second part. . . honestly that sort of action IMO deserves a full year suspension.  

In the Olympics you are stripped of you medals if you are caught cheating 

 

Boxing the same 

 

the Pats should be stripped of all their cheating titles and Tom should be banned from the HOF like Pete Rose 

[JPFolks]

7 hours ago, bababooey said:

they haven't come out of their caves minus the easily debunked King story (which btw he has been caught plagiarizing MULTIPLE times last week). The Kill Everyone Tour ended with Manning riding off into the sunset with a SB win and another AFC championship win over Brady. 

You know the Manning record versus Brady head to head has ALWAYS been an underreported part of the story in my opinion.  Manning sucked most years in the playoffs, but he owned Brady probably more than any other QB in his career.  But most folks are like "nothing to see here.. move along... it messes with our Brady is best narrative...." 

[JPFolks]

7 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

In the Olympics you are stripped of you medals if you are caught cheating 

 

Boxing the same 

 

the Pats should be stripped of all their cheating titles and Tom should be banned from the HOF like Pete Rose 

I wouldn't hold your breath, but I do hope there's some mention of the cheating history of NE in their various HOF induction stories.... 

[JPFolks]

Yes, the Colts have to go into the second half with a playoff berth nearly locked up.  But on to the Patriots, I bet they go 2-2 and then go 11-1 with Brady and have HFA.  I mean, who else is any good in the AFC to take it from them? I can't see any other team doing better than 12-4.  

 

PS: I must confess, I forgot about Pittsburgh who will get the #1 seed.  My bad.. NE will be a likely #2 though.  

[dgambill]

28 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Pretty Good Post but I think had Tom lost the first appeal most Patriots fans would've defended him anyway regardless. Of course his legacy in Boston will never be tarnished because they have blind love for the guy much like Colts fans have for Peyton. Outside of the cities you play for though your legacy is tarnished if you cheat the game, cant sugarcoat that. If Peyton is ever found guilty of doing HGH I would say the same thing about Peyton's legacy, Peyton's Legacy in Denver though. He was never accused of doing anything as a Colt. His legacy as a Colt is clean for sure!

Gotcha. But the legacy that matters is his fans and his legacy in record books and among the media (since they paint it to football fans down through the years) and with those people he is safe and nothing will change haters (other team fans). People will look for any reason to not crown him greatest ect. He has the Boston fans...and he won the media battle last year so he is golden. At this point all that matters is staying on the field. I'd rather it just be a game or something than 4 if I were him. His legacy is safe. Deflate gate didn't change one persons opinion. Those that hated the pats just had another reason. People will use any excuse to say he isn't the greatest....first its spy gate now it's this...fact is when he finishes he will have the most Super Bowls and all the records...yds tds and wins. Can't argue with all that...his legacy will be the record books and the media won't let people forget it.

[jvan1973]

35 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

 

Yea good point. The great thing about the first month of the season is everyone is tied. Everyone feels invincible and believe this might be their season to either keep winning or turn their ship around. The Patriots will be in for a rough four weeks, especially against the Cardinals, and if the Patriots start 0-1 like I think they will, even the teams who open up 0-1 will be licking their chops to prove it's just a fluke they started 0-1, and beating the Patriots will be their way of vindicating themselves.

They have great leadership.    I hope they lose them all,    but the hoodie is a great coach deflated balls or not

[Yehoodi]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

Possible...I don't follow all the NFLPA and NFL court cases. I'm sure he will fight it....not sure how and where it gets heard...he still has a shot to win which is why I could see them settle at this point. He say he is going to fight and the NFL saying if he doesn't appeal we just cut this to a game and both sides move on. It hurts both of them. Brady has to say he will fight it to have any leverage..and I'm sure the NFLPA wants him too as well....time will tell. I can't imagine this going into the season and then him get a suspension during the playoffs...that would be horrible for EVERYONE. The NFL is a way way better product with Tom on the field. Its in everyone's best interest to get this behind us. Tom is a great player and I want to watch him play and go for history....not see him sidelined when the most important games come around. I'm probably biased being a Colts fan but I'm a football fan too..and I want to see the best quality football I can and that's with Tom playing...so if they can settle and get this to a game or something its in my best interest lol.

 

I just pulled the opinion and will likely look at it tomorrow.  I did not see the dissent.   I do think that his is important as this case is just one more cog in the wheel of the relationship between the NFL and its players.  This is not the first go around between the two.   Yes Tom is involved in this one, but its the bigger picture of the overall relationship between the NFL and NFLPA and how the two interact that is at the heart of the issue here.    I will be interest to see how the majority deals with the issue.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I fail to see the advantage of Goodell overruling his own verdict and compromising the suspension of Brady now that the NFL has (at least for the time being) won back the ability to rule, arbitrate, and punish behavioral cases in house as defined in the CBA.  And I doubt the NFL bargains this power away in the future without extracting a pound of flesh either.

 

If the NFL/Goodell reinstates the 4 games suspension, Brady still retains appeal rights to (1) petition for a rehearing in front of the same panel of judges and then to the entire group of Second circuit judges, and (2) a potential appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. (Which I have read many rulings in deference to the arbitrator and arbitration process).In all cases above, Brady would certainly request a stay of his suspension while on appeal. Thus, this already long-running series of rulings could continue for many more months and possibly even years.

 

What I got out this-

"Our review of the records yields the firm conclusion that the Commissioner properly exercised his broad discretion to resolve an intramural controversy between the League and a player. Accordingly, we REVERSE the judgment of the district court and REMAND with instructions to confirm the award.

 

"The Commissioner was authorized to impose discipline for, among other things, 'conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence, in the game of professional football'. "

 

And that the appeals court just loves to see arbitration cases clogging up the court systems...  not!

 

http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions/isysquery/98c62698-d29a-4b91-98a0-5a5af0c19e88/1/doc/15-2801_complete_opn.pdf

 

The dissent begins on page 34

[OffensivelyPC]

27 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

I just pulled the opinion and will likely look at it tomorrow.  I did not see the dissent.   I do think that his is important as this case is just one more cog in the wheel of the relationship between the NFL and its players.  This is not the first go around between the two.   Yes Tom is involved in this one, but its the bigger picture of the overall relationship between the NFL and NFLPA and how the two interact that is at the heart of the issue here.    I will be interest to see how the majority deals with the issue.

I am reading it now. It is not good. Whatever heat they (NFLPA and Brady) took at oral arguments is just laced throughout this opinion. Several times ive seen "that is all the law requires" as it relates to Goodells coming to a ruling that is reasonably based on the spirit of the CBA, or "if they wanted to change the CBA, then it should be collectively bargained for.

 

This is an extremely important ruling and i would not at all be surprised if this leads to a lockout in during negotiations for the next CBA.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I can see Brady's team and NFLPA appealing to the full panel of the 2nd circuit, and getting another stay while on appeal. And maybe even the Supreme court after that (if they lose once more). Thus not serving a suspension in 2016...

[dgambill]

39 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Yes, the Colts have to go into the second half with a playoff berth nearly locked up.  But on to the Patriots, I bet they go 2-2 and then go 11-1 with Brady and have HFA.  I mean, who else is any good in the AFC to take it from them? I can't see any other team doing better than 12-4.  

 

PS: I must confess, I forgot about Pittsburgh who will get the #1 seed.  My bad.. NE will be a likely #2 though.  

If anyone knows predicting wins before the season is foolish it's us. A lot can happen and usually does especially injuries so who knows how things will play out and we tried predicting last year what would happen with the first 4 games and he didn't miss any. If he fights he isn't missing any time so this seems way way premature.

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

You know the Manning record versus Brady head to head has ALWAYS been an underreported part of the story in my opinion.  Manning sucked most years in the playoffs, but he owned Brady probably more than any other QB in his career.  But most folks are like "nothing to see here.. move along... it messes with our Brady is best narrative...." 

I can actually send you statistics proving he was a better QB than Brady and got scarlet less help from his teammates. The narratives were established early on and didn't change until the cheating scandals and the fact manning finally had a defense for once.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, bababooey said:

I can actually send you statistics proving he was a better QB than Brady and got scarlet less help from his teammates. The narratives were established early on and didn't change until the cheating scandals and the fact manning finally had a defense for once.

Doesn't Peyton have a higher QB rating in Playoff games compared to Tom? If he doesn't, I know It's close. That last SB game may have hurt Peyton's Rating

[JPFolks]

41 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I am reading it now. It is not good. Whatever heat they (NFLPA and Brady) took at oral arguments is just laced throughout this opinion. Several times ive seen "that is all the law requires" as it relates to Goodells coming to a ruling that is reasonably based on the spirit of the CBA, or "if they wanted to change the CBA, then it should be collectively bargained for.

 

This is an extremely important ruling and i would not at all be surprised if this leads to a lockout in during negotiations for the next CBA.

If there is status quo between now and then, I agree with your final point.  However I can also see a scenario where the NFL gives up the power in exchange for an 18 game season and expanded playoffs.  What do you think? 

[JPFolks]

34 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If anyone knows predicting wins before the season is foolish it's us. A lot can happen and usually does especially injuries so who knows how things will play out and we tried predicting last year what would happen with the first 4 games and he didn't miss any. If he fights he isn't missing any time so this seems way way premature.

Well, the attorney's on ESPN stated an important fact: The appeals court AFFIRMED the decision, meaning that while the appeal (if there is a successful one) is going on, he still must serve the punishment.  So unless they can get a full court appeal AND win BEFORE those games take place, he STILL has to serve the suspension, though if he won, he'd get a pyrrhic victory of getting his salary back and having his record cleared so to speak, but those games would be lost if the decision came after the first four games were played.  To be clear, I am simply repeating what those attorneys stated, so no point in arguing it with me as I am not an attorney.  I am simply going on the reporting.  

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Well, the attorney's on ESPN stated an important fact: The appeals court AFFIRMED the decision, meaning that while the appeal (if there is a successful one) is going on, he still must serve the punishment.  So unless they can get a full court appeal AND win BEFORE those games take place, he STILL has to serve the suspension, though if he won, he'd get a pyrrhic victory of getting his salary back and having his record cleared so to speak, but those games would be lost if the decision came after the first four games were played.  To be clear, I am simply repeating what those attorneys stated, so no point in arguing it with me as I am not an attorney.  I am simply going on the reporting.  

I thought they would put a stay on it until hearing the case with the full court. If that's the case then prophesy away. My bad.

[JPFolks]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

I thought they would put a stay on it until hearing the case with the full court. If that's the case then prophesy away. My bad.

I believe NBC reported that he COULD still play while an appeal is going on, but they never discussed a "stay" or an "affirmation" so who knows who to believe.  Polian was on the panel with 2 attorney's and all agreed on ESPN NFL INSIDER that he's not playing no matter what, and they also said it was highly unlikely they'd even accept the appeal because unlike the last decision, Brady does not automatically get the right to appeal, like the NFL got for this round.  So I guess it depends on which sports network got it right.  I do have a rudimentary understanding of the law in a case where something is AFFIRMED versus STAYED, but of course that is all assuming the reporting on ESPN was in fact correct.  Hard to believe they'd blow something so important on either network, but there you have it.  Pro Football Talk on NBC on one side, NFL Insider on the other.  

[JPFolks]

2 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

I believe NBC reported that he COULD still play while an appeal is going on, but they never discussed a "stay" or an "affirmation" so who knows who to believe.  Polian was on the panel with 2 attorney's and all agreed on ESPN NFL INSIDER that he's not playing no matter what, and they also said it was highly unlikely they'd even accept the appeal because unlike the last decision, Brady does not automatically get the right to appeal, like the NFL got for this round.  So I guess it depends on which sports network got it right.  I do have a rudimentary understanding of the law in a case where something is AFFIRMED versus STAYED, but of course that is all assuming the reporting on ESPN was in fact correct.  Hard to believe they'd blow something so important on either network, but there you have it.  Pro Football Talk on NBC on one side, NFL Insider on the other.  

Okay, as a follow up, the guy on PFT said that IF the appeal was accepted, an automatic stay would go into effect.  Do we have a lawyer who can confirm that?  It still conflicts with what ESPN said. I have both recorded and rewatched and both were adamant.  BUT, PFT came AFTER NFL Insider so perhaps more attorney's have looked into it. 

[IinD]

When it comes to the Hoodie you just honestly never know. I respect and hate the guy, but I could easily see them go 4-0 just because it's them.

 

I hope they go 0-4 and lose by an average of 40 in each game...

[OffensivelyPC]

46 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

If there is status quo between now and then, I agree with your final point.  However I can also see a scenario where the NFL gives up the power in exchange for an 18 game season and expanded playoffs.  What do you think? 

Well, there is a status quo, i'ts just that the NFLPA was trying to change it via the media, and the court said, "Hey, look, you agreed to this."  So if anything, the Court reaffirmed what the status quo is.  The Commissioner has judicial oversight, just like they agreed.  IF there was an imbalance of the status quo before, it's because the NFLPA been playing this cat and mouse game with every single suspension that gets more than a couple of blurbs on the media. 

 

Regarding the 18 games and expanded playoffs, I think that's just one chip.  I think what the NFL is really after is global expansion.  So while 18 games/expanded playoffs would be the NFLPA's bargaining chip to get neutral arbitration, I don't think it's not enough.  That's why this was such an important case.  The NFLPA has basically taken a sucker punch right to the nuts - any momentum it was building for its case for neutral arbitration has been taken out behind the shed and shot more than once.  Just like an impending free agent who bets on himself in his contract year, Sometimes yo uwin when you sign them before the final year, sometimes you lose when you don't.  In this case, unless something significant changes between now and 2017 or whatever year it is, can't remember, the NFLPA will probably pay a premium to get what it wants.

 

And if it hasn't already, it should cost DeMaurice his job.

 

[EDIT: CBA expires after 2020 season.  That's enough time for things to change in the NFLPA's favor, but it's also a long time to live with this decision if nothing does change.]

[JPFolks]

2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Well, there is a status quo, i'ts just that the NFLPA was trying to change it via the media, and the court said, "Hey, look, you agreed to this."  So if anything, the Court reaffirmed what the status quo is.  The Commissioner has judicial oversight, just like they agreed.  IF there was an imbalance of the status quo before, it's because the NFLPA been playing this cat and mouse game with every single suspension that gets more than a couple of blurbs on the media. 

 

Regarding the 18 games and expanded playoffs, I think that's just one chip.  I think what the NFL is really after is global expansion.  So while 18 games/expanded playoffs would be the NFLPA's bargaining chip to get neutral arbitration, I don't think it's not enough.  That's why this was such an important case - the NFLPA has basically taken a sucker punch right to the nuts - any momentum it was building for its case for neutral arbitration has been taken out behind the shed and shot more than once. 

I think we're in agreement.  I only meant by "status quo" that nothing changes, no deals are made, and things stand pat exactly as they are until the next negotiation.  I think we both believe that deals will be made.  London feels like an inevitability as well as regular season games played in Japan, China, South Korea, mainland Europe (Spain, Germany, maybe France) and Mexico and perhaps a team in Canada to match a possible expansion with London rather that simply moving Jacksonville (which also seems inevitable sadly for them and US if they don't put them in the AFC East and give us Miani in exchange which knowing the NFL, they won't... it's already dumb that Indy is in the South, so perhaps a complete realignment will happen if there's no expansion).  I think long term we'll see an entire International Division with teams in London, Berlin, Madrid and perhaps Paris).   That along with teams in Mexico and Canada all seem realistic in the next generation.  I am not sure if we'll see Asian teams for 30 years, but after that if the game grows as they hope you will.  I think the NBA will follow suit and perhaps double in size in the next 30 years consuming most major capitols in the world).    

[OffensivelyPC]

7 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

I think we're in agreement.  I only meant by "status quo" that nothing changes, no deals are made, and things stand pat exactly as they are until the next negotiation.  I think we both believe that deals will be made.  London feels like an inevitability as well as regular season games played in Japan, China, South Korea, mainland Europe (Spain, Germany, maybe France) and Mexico and perhaps a team in Canada to match a possible expansion with London rather that simply moving Jacksonville (which also seems inevitable sadly for them and US if they don't put them in the AFC East and give us Miani in exchange which knowing the NFL, they won't... it's already dumb that Indy is in the South, so perhaps a complete realignment will happen if there's no expansion).  I think long term we'll see an entire International Division with teams in London, Berlin, Madrid and perhaps Paris).   That along with teams in Mexico and Canada all seem realistic in the next generation.  I am not sure if we'll see Asian teams for 30 years, but after that if the game grows as they hope you will.  I think the NBA will follow suit and perhaps double in size in the next 30 years consuming most major capitols in the world).    

Yeah, who knows the timing of that.  To me, the only way to do it right is to do it slow.  They went to fast with the NFL Europa and it fell apart largely because they wrongly thought that the talent pool would be there when it wasn't and the states didn't have enoguh talent to fill out multiple rosters and keep the competition the same.  And while they offered it as a developmental league, they didn't have the fanbase for it yet.  It ultimately ended up being a bunch of games that not enough people cared about. One team at a time, maybe 5 years apart, seems reasonable, but that's only a hunch.  Probably too fast even then.  I'm no social studies expert, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes decades to really start being able to harvest the draftable football talent in those countries with any predictability.