Patrick Robinson contract details

[Superman]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/patrick-robinson/

 

Three years, $13.5m (I don't see anything about incentives), $6m effectively guaranteed, cap hits go $4m, $4.5m, $5m. Nice balanced contract, typical of Grigson and Bluem, with team flexibility moving forward.

 

He got slightly less than Casey Hayward, who is better, so the value makes sense. If anything, I think Hayward came in a lot lower than expected, but that doesn't mean Robinson's value is off. I also think Robinson is more comfortable outside than Hayward.

 

This contract cancels out losing Freeman, so there won't be a comp pick for Freeman. Should still get a pick for Fleener, as things currently stand, which could be a 4th rounder. According to OTC, Todman and Turbin are non-qualifying signings, so they don't affect the comp pick standing. http://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

 

Should be a capable starter, better than the guy he's replacing, decent contract. All considered, I give this signing a B.

[ProblChld32]

nice analysis 

[TheRustonRifle#7]

I have to agree with the "B" grade and would  like to add that Indy's new DB Coach, Greg Williams, was an assistant DB coach while Robinson played at SD last year.

[Synthetic]

Robinson spent years with the Saints and was usually a C grade corner. 

 

He's a little guy, his biggest problem with us was that he would get burned by big taller receivers. Around 2012, QB's started to pick on Robinson more as he was seen as the weak point of the secondary. He gets burned a lot, that's for sure. 

 

I'll give him credit that he tries and occasionally will have an interception or a big play. But if you're expecting him to play close to the level of Vontae Davis, you're going to be greatly disappointed. 

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Bogie said:

Robinson spent years with the Saints and was usually a C grade corner. 

 

He's a little guy, his biggest problem with us was that he would get burned by big taller receivers. Around 2012, QB's started to pick on Robinson more as he was seen as the weak point of the secondary. He gets burned a lot, that's for sure. 

 

I'll give him credit that he tries and occasionally will have an interception or a big play. But if you're expecting him to play close to the level of Vontae Davis, you're going to be greatly disappointed. 

I don't think many of us think he is going to play on Vontae's level. On a personal level I don't think Vontae played 100% healthy this last season. I think the Robinson signing was an upgrade that should help.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't think many of us think he is going to play on Vontae's level. On a personal level I don't think Vontae played 100% healthy this last season. I think the Robinson signing was an upgrade that should help.

Yeah....I don't think any of us think he will approach Vontae's level

[Synthetic]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't think many of us think he is going to play on Vontae's level. On a personal level I don't think Vontae played 100% healthy this last season. I think the Robinson signing was an upgrade that should help.

 

I don't know about it being an upgrade, he got burned all the time here in N.O. Didn't watch him at all last year, outside the one big game he had vs Detroit, but I have great memories of watching him get burned week after week here. If he puts on cover of tight ends or strong receivers, that's going to be a horrible matchup. 

[Superman]

I think New Orleans awful secondary play over the last several years is more of a coaching issue. Robinson isn't the only guy to look worse there than elsewhere. And more often than not, DBs play better in Indy. 

[Gavin]

Robinson is an upgrade in the fact that he can stay healthy. I hope he proves me wrong but until proven otherwise as a #2 Corner (and not in the slot) I'm expecting we just picked up the healthy version of Greg Toler

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't think many of us think he is going to play on Vontae's level. On a personal level I don't think Vontae played 100% healthy this last season. I think the Robinson signing was an upgrade that should help.

Remember though not many fans thought Vontae would play at Vontae's level when the Colts signed him.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

I don't know about it being an upgrade, he got burned all the time here in N.O. Didn't watch him at all last year, outside the one big game he had vs Detroit, but I have great memories of watching him get burned week after week here. If he puts on cover of tight ends or strong receivers, that's going to be a horrible matchup. 

Pretty much all of Rob Ryans defense got burned from what I remember. We shall see.

[Clem-Dog]

25 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Robinson is an upgrade in the fact that he can stay healthy. I hope he proves me wrong but until proven otherwise as a #2 Corner (and not in the slot) I'm expecting we just picked up the healthy version of Greg Toler

 

I agree with your assessment on Robinson, which is why I wouldn't rule out drafting a possible shut-down corner in the 1st.

 

An elite secondary will help offset a questionable pass rush, or at least stem the tide until Pagano develops one.

[DougDew]

Compensation picks are awarded on a net basis, so the Robinson contract cancels out the loss (gain) of the Freeman contract since they are about the same.  I believe the loss of Lowery also figures into the net calculation, but his contract is minimal.  The NFL may take into consideration that he was a starter that we lost, which will help in the calculation.

 

I still wouldn't rule out drafting a CB at pick #18 either.  Robinson's contract can be added to the slot CB position and not be burdensome to the cap.  Although, I think the Colts are interested in what last year's pick Dijon Smith can do, so drafting a CB with a high pick might stunt his development.

[jbaron04]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/patrick-robinson/

 

Three years, $13.5m (I don't see anything about incentives), $6m effectively guaranteed, cap hits go $4m, $4.5m, $5m. Nice balanced contract, typical of Grigson and Bluem, with team flexibility moving forward.

 

He got slightly less than Casey Hayward, who is better, so the value makes sense. If anything, I think Hayward came in a lot lower than expected, but that doesn't mean Robinson's value is off. I also think Robinson is more comfortable outside than Hayward.

 

This contract cancels out losing Freeman, so there won't be a comp pick for Freeman. Should still get a pick for Fleener, as things currently stand, which could be a 4th rounder. According to OTC, Todman and Turbin are non-qualifying signings, so they don't affect the comp pick standing. http://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/

 

Should be a capable starter, better than the guy he's replacing, decent contract. All considered, I give this signing a B.

As I said before how do your know for sure Casey is better , this is the dB coach that Robinson had a good year with .Casey would be in a new team, new system , new etc.... so how can you say for sure who is better in this particular scheme and system ?

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, jbaron04 said:

As I said before how do your know for sure Casey is better , this is the dB coach that Robinson had a good year with .Casey would be in a new team, new system , new etc.... so how can you say for sure who is better in this particular scheme and system ?

Simple.  When the ball is in the air what do either Casey or Robinson do. Do they breakdown mentally on there technique and panic? That more than anything else separates a good Corner from a bad one. That's why Toler never really worked out and why Robinson never worked out in NO despite the fact that Robinson did make plays...Once the ball was in the air they both panicked. Now for Robinson its going to a new year and new team and a new chance to be consistent with his technique. He's on our team now and Im just going to hope for the best but there is reason for concern till proven otherwise. I expect him to make some plays if he stays healthy but I also expect he will have his fair share of being burned

[jbaron04]

10 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Simple.  When the ball is in the air what do either Casey or Robinson do. Do they breakdown mentally on there technique and panic? That more than anything else separates a good Corner from a bad one. That's why Toler never really worked out and why Robinson never worked out in NO despite the fact that Robinson did make plays...Once the ball was in the air they both panicked. Now for Robinson its going to a new year and new team and a new chance to be consistent with his technique. He's on our team now and Im just going to hope for the best but there is reason for concern till proven otherwise. I expect him to make some plays if he stays healthy but I also expect he will have his fair share of being burned

Toler Didn't Work Out Because We Ask A Slot Often Injury Corner To Play The Top WR Side.  You don't think that has anything to do with it I'm not defending toler by any means just didn't understand that move when there was proven starters in fa when we signed him ?

[Gavin]

5 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

Toler Didn't Work Out Because We Ask A Slot Often Injury Corner To Play The Top WR Side.  You don't think that has anything to do with it I'm not defending toler by any means just didn't understand that move when there was proven starters in fa when we signed him ?

I honestly don't remember the Corners that were available

[Superman]

1 hour ago, jbaron04 said:

As I said before how do your know for sure Casey is better , this is the dB coach that Robinson had a good year with .Casey would be in a new team, new system , new etc.... so how can you say for sure who is better in this particular scheme and system ?

 

It's my opinion. I'm not saying anything for sure.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Clem-Dog said:

 

I agree with your assessment on Robinson, which is why I wouldn't rule out drafting a possible shut-down corner in the 1st.

 

An elite secondary will help offset a questionable pass rush, or at least stem the tide until Pagano develops one.

 

I believe Grigson when he says he's going to stick to his board, so I don't think the Robinson signing has any particular impact on what the Colts do in the draft. 

 

I also think the preferable way of building a defense is to let your pass rush help your secondary, not the other way around. But that doesn't mean you should shy away from upgrading your secondary when you have the chance to do so. And sadly, this offseason isn't presenting a lot of opportunity to upgrade the pass rush.

[jbaron04]

41 minutes ago, Gavin said:

I honestly don't remember the Corners that were available

It was 

Sean Smith 

Grimes

Talib 

Toler

DRC 

Daunte Robinson just to name a few 

But it was alot of starting cb that year 

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

It was 

Sean Smith 

Grimes

Talib 

Toler

DRC 

Daunte Robinson just to name a few 

But it was alot of starting cb that year 

IIRC, except for Smith, none were really worth the money they were paid.  So in that venue, I'm glad we signed only Toler.

[jchandler7]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I believe Grigson when he says he's going to stick to his board, so I don't think the Robinson signing has any particular impact on what the Colts do in the draft. 

 

I  also think the preferable way of building a defense is to let your pass rush help your secondary, not the other way around. But that doesn't mean you should shy away from upgrading your secondary when you have the chance to do so. And sadly, this offseason isn't presenting a lot of opportunity to upgrade the pass rush.

The bad thing Is the draft doesnt appear to have much opportunity to upgrade either, not very many good pass rushers. We may have to try to balance this season by having good seconday play and a mediocre pass rush Instead.

[BlueCollarColts]

I think he is an upgrade over Toler. We already have a #1 corner in Davis, we just need a solid #2 to pair with him. Really I am pretty satisfied with our secondary as I think Adams and Geathers are going to form a good safety duo as well. I am also hoping hoping Smith improves and can take over the 3rd CB role from Butler. 

[jbaron04]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

IIRC, except for Smith, none were really worth the money they were paid.  So in that venue, I'm glad we signed only Toler.

Hmm I would have to disagree I would rather have Grimes at only 5.5m over toler and a few of them where only a little bit more money so I disagree , toler was horrible and always injured 

[Superman]

33 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

Hmm I would have to disagree I would rather have Grimes at only 5.5m over toler and a few of them where only a little bit more money so I disagree , toler was horrible and always injured 

 

Almost all of them signed low money one year deals that year, then followed them up with long term deals at #1 corner money. Grimes would have cost $8m/year starting in 2014. Of course, I'd rather pay Grimes than Toler, and the pay difference wasn't that great (but then you have to deal with his crazy wife). Just have to remember that free agency isn't like grocery shopping, where you just pick what you want at a set price. Also, if we look at consensus favorites in free agency, a lot of them go belly up, too. 

 

Sean Smith is an exception; he signed a three year deal for slightly more than Toler. That would have been the way to go. 

[Superman]

50 minutes ago, BlueCollarColts said:

I think he is an upgrade over Toler. We already have a #1 corner in Davis, we just need a solid #2 to pair with him. Really I am pretty satisfied with our secondary as I think Adams and Geathers are going to form a good safety duo as well. I am also hoping hoping Smith improves and can take over the 3rd CB role from Butler. 

 

If Smith or anyone else can start on the outside, Robinson can play mostly slot coverage, where he's best.

[akcolt]

I would not be surprised if we drafted more help on the backend. We need a FS sooner rather than later. I am intersted in what Southward brings. If we stick to the BPA we may bump into a CB. If Sims the kid S Utah goes undrafted I'd be on him. I don't think Robinson takes CB off the table in any round. 

 

You can rush the passer with DL too. It would be nice to upgrade NT with a guy that can pressure the QB like Billings. I am all for him at 18. 

 

A DL who doesn't  get a lot of attention who I think has a very high ceiling as a pass rusher  is Jones from Miss St. Many are saying he should have went back to school. Could he slip to day 3?

 

We need to draft an edge but we can't pick what's not there. Grig's has acknowledged this isn't a great class. It will be interesting to see what we do here. We only have 3 OLB on the roster all over 30.

 

There are a few late round guys I like Holmes Montana then Thompson Syracuse may go undrafted . 

[jbaron04]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Almost all of them signed low money one year deals that year, then followed them up with long term deals at #1 corner money. Grimes would have cost $8m/year starting in 2014. Of course, I'd rather pay Grimes than Toler, and the pay difference wasn't that great (but then you have to deal with his crazy wife). Just have to remember that free agency isn't like grocery shopping, where you just pick what you want at a set price. Also, if we look at consensus favorites in free agency, a lot of them go belly up, too. 

 

Sean Smith is an exception; he signed a three year deal for slightly more than Toler. That would have been the way to go. 

I agree 

[Chucklez]

13 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

I don't know about it being an upgrade, he got burned all the time here in N.O. Didn't watch him at all last year, outside the one big game he had vs Detroit, but I have great memories of watching him get burned week after week here. If he puts on cover of tight ends or strong receivers, that's going to be a horrible matchup. 

Robinson was very good in SD last year (with our new DB coach I might add) and he did something like allow the fewest big plays of all CB's last season.... I think that is right or it was a stat similar to that...

[Clem-Dog]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I believe Grigson when he says he's going to stick to his board, so I don't think the Robinson signing has any particular impact on what the Colts do in the draft. 

 

I also think the preferable way of building a defense is to let your pass rush help your secondary, not the other way around. But that doesn't mean you should shy away from upgrading your secondary when you have the chance to do so. And sadly, this offseason isn't presenting a lot of opportunity to upgrade the pass rush.

 

The Dorsett pick 110% confirms your first point.

 

Ideally a dominant pass rush is preferable, but we are far from it.  What the Colts do have is a pretty good secondary, that I believe could be extraordinary if Grigson adds one of Hargreaves, Alexander or Apple.  I really like Apple's size for Pagano's scheme.

 

Grigson is close to building a great secondary, more so than other units, on both sides of the ball.  This upgrade will have a greater impact on the field, both short and long term.  

 

I don't disagree with drafting OL either.