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Our exaggerated Oline problem


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There are a lot of people on here who subscribe to the notion that we have one of the worst lines in the league. Sure, just as with any team, the line could be improved and we shouldn't exactly be happy with it, especially their run and screen blocking. But it has improved every year under the new regime, and by my eyes was right around par with the rest of the league. The Patriots and Seahawks both had far worse lines, but they negated it with excellent scheming/QB play. The whole, 'We went through 5 QBs last year so our Oline sucks' narrative is wrong for several reasons. 

 

1. Technically we only had 3 injured QBs. Freeman and Lindley were brought in for the last game; Freeman played the bulk of it, Lindley ran the hurry up offense at the end of the first half and got us a TD.

 

2. Luck had a couple injuries, and contrary to what a lot of posters would have us believe, they were largely on him. A lot of people think he was hurt in the first or second game when he was getting hit left and right from NY and Buffalo's massive blitzes. That very well could be true, but that doesn't mean it was the line's fault. Typically when facing all out blitzes every down, an offensive coordinator and QB will call out quick hitting plays. You can't expect 5 or 6 pass blockers to be able to block 7 guys long enough that a WR can run a go route and beat his man. Whatever game caused Luck's first injury, it was the fault of Pep Hamilton and himself. Against Denver he got hurt again. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time faulting the Oline with the amount of times he was taking off and running with the ball, only compounding the issue by never sliding. The guy has the biggest balls of any QB in the game, and it caused him to get hurt this year. I'm hoping these issues are fixed this year with a new OC and QB coach.

 

3. Hasselbeck is a 40 year old man. He scraped out a few wins until the league realized that the old man can't throw down the field, negating our deep threat, and they were able to adjust their defense accordingly. He started taking a few more hits once the offense became too predictable, and big shocker, the 40 year old man's arthritic body couldn't hold up. 

 

4. Then there's Clipboard Jesus. I'm not even sure why we signed a guy who's been in the league for 10 years and has 2,000 career yards passing. Pat McAfee would have been a better option. Regardless, he also is pretty old, and has never really proven to know what he's doing, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that he lasted half a game. I assume teams just sign him because he has a moderately funny nickname.

 

I am happy with what Grigson/Pagano have said about the Oline; we're set at tackle and left guard. I would not be thrilled with starting Holmes and Thornton next year, but I would be far less thrilled with using a first rounder on a center or guard. I'm hoping we get some cheap, veteran help at those positions, and also see how Denzelle Good looks at RG. We don't need Alex Mack or Kelechi Osemele. I want to see Irsay's money spent on defenders, and I want to see us draft defenders. 

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I understand it's not the worst... But

 

 

The Colts are trying to be one of the best teams in the league. They also have one of the best upcoming QB's in the game who obviously needs to be protected more. Using a first rounder on a need is important!

 

I think Frank Gore showed a lot when he said it "was the most frustrating season he has had as a pro." Some was his fault

yes but a lot was on the offensive line. True we have two good players in Castonzo and Mewhort but a team needs a lot more than that for the line. Especially depth wise. 

 

Offensive lines have many jobs. 

1.) Protect the Passer

2.) Create holes for the RB

3.) Identify fronts/Blitzers

4.) Allow everyone else on the offense time

 

The problem is when you have a poor offensive line (the Colts do) the whole offense and possibly the team suffer. If they can't block the recievers don't get separation, running backs don't get yards, quarterback doesn't have time and make mistakes, the defense gets on the field faster and everyone loses confidence. Offensive line is VERY important. Just not the most talked about and glamourous position in the NFL.

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Its not the worst in the league. But it is pretty bad on the interior. If we don't get it fixed Luck is going to continue to be under pressure every play and not have time to get rid of the ball. And he absolutely can not keep taking hit after hit. If you watched our games the last few years you'd see how many times Luck has on his back. Maybe not a sack, but he has taken way too many hits, and it has to stop now. We HAVE to bring in a good guard and a good Center. Our offense can be the best in the league. But we have to fix the OL first. Luck is about to be entering his prime. Put him behind a beast offensive line and see what he does.

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1 minute ago, BOTT said:

Pagano and Grigson said they are set at 2 of the 5 positions?  Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

 

3/5....Castonzo, Mewhort, Reitz.

 

Plus the possibility of Good filling the RG spot. He was a pretty solid run blocker as a 7th round rookie out of Mars Freaking Hill. His pass blocking was suspect, but if he moved inside his slow feet wouldn't be as much of an issue. Another year in the big leagues could do wonders as well.

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Well....    I'm one of the posters here who argue that we have a terrible OL.     I think it's easily one of the worst,  and frankly,  I don't even understand what's to debate about?

 

Fact:   The Colts have had a terrible running game in each of the four years of the Grigson administration.

 

Fact:   Forget the injuries,  Andrew Luck has either been the league leader, or near the league leader in number of times being hit or under pressure each and every year of the Grigson administration.

 

So,  if you have an OL that has trouble pass blocking and run blocking,  what's the debate?      We have two good offensive lineman.     One brought in by Bill Polian,  the other by Grigson.    But we continue to have problems at center and right guard,  and I say that as someone who has been openly pulling for Holmes and Thornton to succeed.     But they haven't.     And this front office is now publicly backing Reitz and Good at RT, and I sure wouldn't.

 

So, at best, we have 3 solid starters and two question marks,  and that's after 4 years of this administraton.

Is it possible that some of the problem has been coaching?    Yes, and I note that we fired one of our two OL coaches.     Is the problem in part due to constant injuries on the OL?    Yes, no doubt.    But guys like Holmes and Thornton need more than just being healthy to be good.    Their respective games need to be much better.

 

So,  what's the argument again that our line isn't that bad?      Because I don't see it.    You might as well be arguing that the Grand Canyon is just another hole in the ground.........

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, The Peytonator said:

 

 

3/5....Castonzo, Mewhort, Reitz.

 

Plus the possibility of Good filling the RG spot. He was a pretty solid run blocker as a 7th round rookie out of Mars Freaking Hill. His pass blocking was suspect, but if he moved inside his slow feet wouldn't be as much of an issue. Another year in the big leagues could do wonders as well.

I would say only Jack Mewhort is a nice piece on our offensive line. Sorry but we seen the play of AC at the beginning of the season. I'll keep preaching it. AC didn't have good games until we moved JM back to LG.

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3 minutes ago, a06cc said:

I would say only Jack Mewhort is a nice piece on our offensive line. Sorry but we seen the play of AC at the beginning of the season. I'll keep preaching it. AC didn't have good games until we moved JM back to LG.

AC had good games prior to Mewhort even being on the team. Also, AC and Mewhort work well together. That's part of piecing together the puzzle. We know that combination works well together, as O-linemen often work as a unit. If you believe that Mewhort is a nice piece on our line, then why would it surprise you that AC would perform better next to him as opposed to a lesser O-lineman? Obviously, AC would perform better next to Mewhort instead of Lance Luois.

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PFF has him ranked as one of the worst offensive lineman. Each of his years he has had given up the most pressures and hits. Anthony isn't good at all. That's my opinion. PFF will also back that up

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2 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

There are a lot of people on here who subscribe to the notion that we have one of the worst lines in the league. Sure, just as with any team, the line could be improved and we shouldn't exactly be happy with it, especially their run and screen blocking. But it has improved every year under the new regime, and by my eyes was right around par with the rest of the league. The Patriots and Seahawks both had far worse lines, but they negated it with excellent scheming/QB play. The whole, 'We went through 5 QBs last year so our Oline sucks' narrative is wrong for several reasons. 

 

1. Technically we only had 3 injured QBs. Freeman and Lindley were brought in for the last game; Freeman played the bulk of it, Lindley ran the hurry up offense at the end of the first half and got us a TD.

 

2. Luck had a couple injuries, and contrary to what a lot of posters would have us believe, they were largely on him. A lot of people think he was hurt in the first or second game when he was getting hit left and right from NY and Buffalo's massive blitzes. That very well could be true, but that doesn't mean it was the line's fault. Typically when facing all out blitzes every down, an offensive coordinator and QB will call out quick hitting plays. You can't expect 5 or 6 pass blockers to be able to block 7 guys long enough that a WR can run a go route and beat his man. Whatever game caused Luck's first injury, it was the fault of Pep Hamilton and himself. Against Denver he got hurt again. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time faulting the Oline with the amount of times he was taking off and running with the ball, only compounding the issue by never sliding. The guy has the biggest balls of any QB in the game, and it caused him to get hurt this year. I'm hoping these issues are fixed this year with a new OC and QB coach.

 

3. Hasselbeck is a 40 year old man. He scraped out a few wins until the league realized that the old man can't throw down the field, negating our deep threat, and they were able to adjust their defense accordingly. He started taking a few more hits once the offense became too predictable, and big shocker, the 40 year old man's arthritic body couldn't hold up. 

 

4. Then there's Clipboard Jesus. I'm not even sure why we signed a guy who's been in the league for 10 years and has 2,000 career yards passing. Pat McAfee would have been a better option. Regardless, he also is pretty old, and has never really proven to know what he's doing, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that he lasted half a game. I assume teams just sign him because he has a moderately funny nickname.

 

I am happy with what Grigson/Pagano have said about the Oline; we're set at tackle and left guard. I would not be thrilled with starting Holmes and Thornton next year, but I would be far less thrilled with using a first rounder on a center or guard. I'm hoping we get some cheap, veteran help at those positions, and also see how Denzelle Good looks at RG. We don't need Alex Mack or Kelechi Osemele. I want to see Irsay's money spent on defenders, and I want to see us draft defenders. 

We played five QB's last season because the o-line is bad they had a role in Lucks injury's and in hasselbecks.

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....    I'm one of the posters here who argue that we have a terrible OL.     I think it's easily one of the worst,  and frankly,  I don't even understand what's to debate about?

 

Fact:   The Colts have had a terrible running game in each of the four years of the Grigson administration.

 

Fact:   Forget the injuries,  Andrew Luck has either been the league leader, or near the league leader in number of times being hit or under pressure each and every year of the Grigson administration.

 

So,  if you have an OL that has trouble pass blocking and run blocking,  what's the debate?      We have two good offensive lineman.     One brought in by Bill Polian,  the other by Grigson.    But we continue to have problems at center and right guard,  and I say that as someone who has been openly pulling for Holmes and Thornton to succeed.     But they haven't.     And this front office is now publicly backing Reitz and Good at RT, and I sure wouldn't.

 

So, at best, we have 3 solid starters and two question marks,  and that's after 4 years of this administraton.

Is it possible that some of the problem has been coaching?    Yes, and I note that we fired one of our two OL coaches.     Is the problem in part due to constant injuries on the OL?    Yes, no doubt.    But guys like Holmes and Thornton need more than just being healthy to be good.    Their respective games need to be much better.

 

So,  what's the argument again that our line isn't that bad?      Because I don't see it.    You might as well be arguing that the Grand Canyon is just another hole in the ground.........

 

 

 

 

I agree with you and not to downgrade what the OP posted because he put a lot of thought in what he was saying but the O.line isn't even Average. It hasn't been in the Luck era. It isn't the worst but it's Below Average. Luck has been hit more than any other QB since he's been in the league and game after game the line opens up no holes for our RB's. We have went what nearly 50 straight games without a 100 Yards rusher? That is real bad, unacceptable. When Gore cant even rush for 100 at least once if not 3 or 4 times you know our Line has major problems.

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13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....    I'm one of the posters here who argue that we have a terrible OL.     I think it's easily one of the worst,  and frankly,  I don't even understand what's to debate about?

 

Fact:   The Colts have had a terrible running game in each of the four years of the Grigson administration.

 

Fact:   Forget the injuries,  Andrew Luck has either been the league leader, or near the league leader in number of times being hit or under pressure each and every year of the Grigson administration.

 

So,  if you have an OL that has trouble pass blocking and run blocking,  what's the debate?      We have two good offensive lineman.     One brought in by Bill Polian,  the other by Grigson.    But we continue to have problems at center and right guard,  and I say that as someone who has been openly pulling for Holmes and Thornton to succeed.     But they haven't.     And this front office is now publicly backing Reitz and Good at RT, and I sure wouldn't.

 

So, at best, we have 3 solid starters and two question marks,  and that's after 4 years of this administraton.

Is it possible that some of the problem has been coaching?    Yes, and I note that we fired one of our two OL coaches.     Is the problem in part due to constant injuries on the OL?    Yes, no doubt.    But guys like Holmes and Thornton need more than just being healthy to be good.    Their respective games need to be much better.

 

So,  what's the argument again that our line isn't that bad?      Because I don't see it.    You might as well be arguing that the Grand Canyon is just another hole in the ground.........

 

 

 

 

 

I can't speak for the OP but here's my rebuttal.

 

#1 your facts, while they are facts are not factual indictments of the oline. Let me explain...

 

You state they cannot run block because we've been terrible running the ball. But honestly our backs have had respectable averages per rush (except Richardson).  We have been terrible at running the ball because A. We give up on the run the minute any team scores (a Hamilton/Luck issue) and B. We are extremely predictable when we run the ball and pass the ball (again a Hamilton issue).  Even with said predictability we were getting modest yards per carry so put in a position to fail and the Oline still succeeded...

 

Your second statement says the oline is bad because Luck is always leading the league with QB hits.... yet Luck is also leading the league with amount of time to throw... regardless of his hits if he has the time (which is statistically proven) then the oline is again doing their job.  This is again at fault of Luck/Hamilton for not scheming and/or using the time that is given to them.

 

#2 your anti endorsement of Thorton, Holmes, Reitz and Good.  If you watch the tape the oline did wonders when Holmes was in.  Him being benched for a Center that literally makes me laugh at his awfulness isn't Holmes' fault but the coaches.  Thornton was playing out of his mind again this year until injury.  So yes I'm all for getting him a replacement but imo the line has 4 players to work with and one injury prone.  

 

#3 our oline is much better than what everyone perceives.  Are they elite? I don't know of any oline save the Cowboys are elite in the league (all olines have questions right now) but they are in legitimate contention to be average and maybe slightly above average in comparison to the rest of the league.

 

Just my take :-)

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I'll give you that we have some of the pieces, but our O-line issue are very much real. Our center and right guard are fringe starter level players who both have durability issues. Our depth at tackle sucks. Maybe Denzel Good figures into all of this somehow, but I haven't seen enough out of him to think of him as anything more than a backup on the right side.

 

Bottom line is having an average to below average O-line is limiting us at running the football and it exposes our superstar quarterback to more hits and it hurts his play.

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3 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

I can't speak for the OP but here's my rebuttal.

 

#1 your facts, while they are facts are not factual indictments of the oline. Let me explain...

 

You state they cannot run block because we've been terrible running the ball. But honestly our backs have had respectable averages per rush (except Richardson).  We have been terrible at running the ball because A. We give up on the run the minute any team scores (a Hamilton/Luck issue) and B. We are extremely predictable when we run the ball and pass the ball (again a Hamilton issue).  Even with said predictability we were getting modest yards per carry so put in a position to fail and the Oline still succeeded...

 

Your second statement says the oline is bad because Luck is always leading the league with QB hits.... yet Luck is also leading the league with amount of time to throw... regardless of his hits if he has the time (which is statistically proven) then the oline is again doing their job.  This is again at fault of Luck/Hamilton for not scheming and/or using the time that is given to them.

 

#2 your anti endorsement of Thorton, Holmes, Reitz and Good.  If you watch the tape the oline did wonders when Holmes was in.  Him being benched for a Center that literally makes me laugh at his awfulness isn't Holmes' fault but the coaches.  Thornton was playing out of his mind again this year until injury.  So yes I'm all for getting him a replacement but imo the line has 4 players to work with and one injury prone.  

 

#3 our oline is much better than what everyone perceives.  Are they elite? I don't know of any oline save the Cowboys are elite in the league (all olines have questions right now) but they are in legitimate contention to be average and maybe slightly above average in comparison to the rest of the league.

 

Just my take :-)

I wouldn't even say they are Average. On a scale of Poor, Below Average, Average, Above Average, Good, Very Good, Great. We are Below Average, JMO. We aren't Poor so I am not totally bashing them but we are in the bottom half of the league so to me that is Below Average.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I wouldn't even say they are Average. On a scale of Poor, Below Average, Average, Above Average, Good, Very Good, Great. We are Below Average, JMO. We aren't Poor so I am not totally bashing them but we are in the bottom half of the league so to me that is Below Average.

 

Here's my rebuttal to that :-)

 

Do you consider our oline better than the Patriots, Broncos,  and Seahawks olines?  Because if we have the same QB talent and you think the line is better than theirs (which it is) then we should have more than enough of an oline to win a superbowl.

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13 hours ago, a06cc said:

PFF has him ranked as one of the worst offensive lineman. Each of his years he has had given up the most pressures and hits. Anthony isn't good at all. That's my opinion. PFF will also back that up

 

False. Where the hell did you pull that nonsense from? Castonzo is rated at 79.4 for 2015, which makes him their 20th overall tackle (includes left and right tackles). That's not great but it's solid. Certainly no where near "one of the worst".

 

Also, PFF had AC rated as a top 5 tackle in 2014.

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The line played better under Hasselbeck, after we got Herremans out and shifted Mewhort back to his natural position. Wonder what happens if we started with that. The line was dynamite in the two playoff wins the year earlier and was able to beat the Broncos this year. You just have guys like Schlereth saying its the worst O line hes seen in his career when you have Romo out for most of the season (again) and Cam and Brady getting hit left and right.

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3 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Here's my rebuttal to that :-)

 

Do you consider our oline better than the Patriots, Broncos,  and Seahawks olines?  Because if we have the same QB talent and you think the line is better than theirs (which it is) then we should have more than enough of an oline to win a superbowl.

I think their Run blocking is better than ours. We haven't had a 100 yard rusher in nearly 50 games, that isn't just our RB's aside from Trent who was awful. Teams like the Patriots have no name guys that step in and rush for 100 Yards routinely. The Broncos also have a decent running game with Hillman and Anderson who aren't Great RB's and Look at what the Seahawks have done with Lynch over the last few years. They opened up huge holes for him. Gore is still a Good RB, he is older and isn't Great anymore but still Good and had 0 100 Yard games. Regarding the Pass blocking, I will agree Andrew holds on to the ball too long at times where Tom and Peyton don't so he is partly to blame for some of the hits he takes but I have seen numerous plays where he has no time to throw and gets drilled in a matter of a couple of seconds.

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15 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

There are a lot of people on here who subscribe to the notion that we have one of the worst lines in the league. Sure, just as with any team, the line could be improved and we shouldn't exactly be happy with it, especially their run and screen blocking. But it has improved every year under the new regime, and by my eyes was right around par with the rest of the league. The Patriots and Seahawks both had far worse lines, but they negated it with excellent scheming/QB play. The whole, 'We went through 5 QBs last year so our Oline sucks' narrative is wrong for several reasons. 

 

1. Technically we only had 3 injured QBs. 

Only 3 injured qbs.... this is something to be said willy nilly....

 

It's not common for 3 qbs on thr same roster to be hurt in a single season. It's actually quite alarming.

 

The fact that you're all like "only 3 injured qbs" discredited the entire post for me.

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3 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

Only 3 injured qbs.... this is something to be said willy nilly....

 

It's not common for 3 qbs on thr same roster to be hurt in a single season. It's actually quite alarming.

 

The fact that you're all like "only 3 injured qbs" discredited the entire post for me.

Yeah I didn't even think about that comment but 3 injured QB's isn't good haha 1 is bad enough especially when he is our franchise star!

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14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....    I'm one of the posters here who argue that we have a terrible OL.     I think it's easily one of the worst,  and frankly,  I don't even understand what's to debate about?

 

Fact:   The Colts have had a terrible running game in each of the four years of the Grigson administration.

 

Fact:   Forget the injuries,  Andrew Luck has either been the league leader, or near the league leader in number of times being hit or under pressure each and every year of the Grigson administration.

 

So,  if you have an OL that has trouble pass blocking and run blocking,  what's the debate?      We have two good offensive lineman.     One brought in by Bill Polian,  the other by Grigson.    But we continue to have problems at center and right guard,  and I say that as someone who has been openly pulling for Holmes and Thornton to succeed.     But they haven't.     And this front office is now publicly backing Reitz and Good at RT, and I sure wouldn't.

 

So, at best, we have 3 solid starters and two question marks,  and that's after 4 years of this administraton.

Is it possible that some of the problem has been coaching?    Yes, and I note that we fired one of our two OL coaches.     Is the problem in part due to constant injuries on the OL?    Yes, no doubt.    But guys like Holmes and Thornton need more than just being healthy to be good.    Their respective games need to be much better.

 

So,  what's the argument again that our line isn't that bad?      Because I don't see it.    You might as well be arguing that the Grand Canyon is just another hole in the ground.........

 

 

 

 

 

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Fact: prior to this past season, every back not named Trent Richardson who had a significant amount of carries easily averaged over 4 YPC (Bradshaw, Boom, even Donald Brown). And they all looked pretty good doing it.

 

Opinion: Frank Gore didn't look the same to me this year. He looked to have left a lot of yards on the field. A lot of it was poor run blocking but he missed opportunities.

Fact: He still averaged 3.7 YPC.

And that's despite the predictable play calling, giving up on the run way too early, and an erratic passing game.

 

Fact: Luck has either been the league leader, or near the league leader in time to throw since he has been here. He's not doing the line any favors.

 

I think we can go into next season with three of the same starters on the offensive line and have a successful group (Castonzo, Mewhort, Reitz). But, the RG and, especially, Center positions have been a complete mess. The front office and coaches need to find a center they like and stop flipping between the trash that is Holmes and Harrison (cut them both or make one a permanent backup to whomever they bring in). As for RG, it's an issue but it would be much less of an issue, same goes for the line in general, with a decent center.

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1 hour ago, Surge89 said:

 

I can't speak for the OP but here's my rebuttal.

 

#1 your facts, while they are facts are not factual indictments of the oline. Let me explain...

 

You state they cannot run block because we've been terrible running the ball. But honestly our backs have had respectable averages per rush (except Richardson).  We have been terrible at running the ball because A. We give up on the run the minute any team scores (a Hamilton/Luck issue) and B. We are extremely predictable when we run the ball and pass the ball (again a Hamilton issue).  Even with said predictability we were getting modest yards per carry so put in a position to fail and the Oline still succeeded...

 

Your second statement says the oline is bad because Luck is always leading the league with QB hits.... yet Luck is also leading the league with amount of time to throw... regardless of his hits if he has the time (which is statistically proven) then the oline is again doing their job.  This is again at fault of Luck/Hamilton for not scheming and/or using the time that is given to them.

 

#2 your anti endorsement of Thorton, Holmes, Reitz and Good.  If you watch the tape the oline did wonders when Holmes was in.  Him being benched for a Center that literally makes me laugh at his awfulness isn't Holmes' fault but the coaches.  Thornton was playing out of his mind again this year until injury.  So yes I'm all for getting him a replacement but imo the line has 4 players to work with and one injury prone.  

 

#3 our oline is much better than what everyone perceives.  Are they elite? I don't know of any oline save the Cowboys are elite in the league (all olines have questions right now) but they are in legitimate contention to be average and maybe slightly above average in comparison to the rest of the league.

 

Just my take :-)

 

Well said. I agree with you.

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14 hours ago, a06cc said:

I would say only Jack Mewhort is a nice piece on our offensive line. Sorry but we seen the play of AC at the beginning of the season. I'll keep preaching it. AC didn't have good games until we moved JM back to LG.

I have said since AC has been here he is more right tackle than left tackle.

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IMO, our O-line was average.  The worst part of the line was the Center.  Harrison missed on a number of blocks.

 

If you are going to blame any one for Luck and Whitehurst's injuries, blame the WRs for not getting open.  Both were hurt while running down field.

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All of us can have different opinions on things but to think the Colts have even a average of the league O-line is a joke. In my earlier comment I said they sucked as a unit. We have two or three good linemen there and the rest are junk. It has been a continual thing for the RBs to get hit in the backfield. Our QB (no matter how many) have been hit, hurried and sacked pretty much at the top of the league since Luck has been here. Those are the facts that cant be argued. You can throw different point of views out in this thread but the facts don't change.

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17 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

All of us can have different opinions on things but to think the Colts have even a average of the league O-line is a joke. In my earlier comment I said they sucked as a unit. We have two or three good linemen there and the rest are junk. It has been a continual thing for the RBs to get hit in the backfield. Our QB (no matter how many) have been hit, hurried and sacked pretty much at the top of the league since Luck has been here. Those are the facts that cant be argued. You can throw different point of views out in this thread but the facts don't change.

 

Yep, this is the prevailing view among national "experts", but a false one.  PFF ranked our line as a whole 15th in the league in 2015, which supports the notion that this was an average OL.  Why does everyone think it stunk? 

 

One reason is that in a few early nationally-televised games last year the announcers talked up the number of hits that Luck took in the last three years.  This stat, of course, is largely irrelevant because last year's line was considerably better than the previous two years.  Also, Luck takes a ton of hits because he's willing to!  He holds the ball until the last split second to enable his receivers extra time to get open.  It's a nasty habit he needs to break.  Offering QB hits as the stat to judge the Colts' line is as lazy as "analysis" gets...

 

In case you can't tell, I greatly agree with the original premise of this thread.  Add a solid veteran RG in FA and draft a center in the 2nd (Martin), and you'll have a Top 10 OL IMO.

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1 hour ago, Archer said:

 

Yep, this is the prevailing view among national "experts", but a false one.  PFF ranked our line as a whole 15th in the league in 2015, which supports the notion that this was an average OL.  Why does everyone think it stunk? 

 

One reason is that in a few early nationally-televised games last year the announcers talked up the number of hits that Luck took in the last three years.  This stat, of course, is largely irrelevant because last year's line was considerably better than the previous two years.  Also, Luck takes a ton of hits because he's willing to!  He holds the ball until the last split second to enable his receivers extra time to get open.  It's a nasty habit he needs to break.  Offering QB hits as the stat to judge the Colts' line is as lazy as "analysis" gets...

 

In case you can't tell, I greatly agree with the original premise of this thread.  Add a solid veteran RG in FA and draft a center in the 2nd (Martin), and you'll have a Top 10 OL IMO.

I think you overlooked what I said. It does not take an expert to see the Colts starting line as a unit has not been very good. As a unit. This differences in opinions serves no purpose when the facts speak for themselves. So using hits, hurries and sacks is a lazy way of speaking facts? No, the facts are what they are. We have not had a 100 yard RB in how long?  So be me saying that I am being lazy? The offensive line has yet to give Luck the time needed to go through any progressions. That has been a problem since day one of Lucks career. I do agree with your comment about needing a guard and a center. Then maybe they can begin  to play as a unit. Till this offensive line is fixed the Colts will never sniff a super bowl.

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4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think their Run blocking is better than ours. We haven't had a 100 yard rusher in nearly 50 games, that isn't just our RB's aside from Trent who was awful. Teams like the Patriots have no name guys that step in and rush for 100 Yards routinely. The Broncos also have a decent running game with Hillman and Anderson who aren't Great RB's and Look at what the Seahawks have done with Lynch over the last few years. They opened up huge holes for him. Gore is still a Good RB, he is older and isn't Great anymore but still Good and had 0 100 Yard games. Regarding the Pass blocking, I will agree Andrew holds on to the ball too long at times where Tom and Peyton don't so he is partly to blame for some of the hits he takes but I have seen numerous plays where he has no time to throw and gets drilled in a matter of a couple of seconds.

 

Right but would you say those 3 teams olines have more talent than ours? I highly doubt it. They succeed at running the ball because they actually run the ball and scheme to run the ball. It also helps that both the Broncos and patriots are quite proficient at running draws and screens (mostly due to coaching/QB calling) and we are flat awful. 

 

So while I agree that your right the biggest difference is they run the ball better I do not think it's due to oline talent. 

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18 hours ago, The Peytonator said:

 

 

3/5....Castonzo, Mewhort, Reitz.

 

Plus the possibility of Good filling the RG spot. He was a pretty solid run blocker as a 7th round rookie out of Mars Freaking Hill. His pass blocking was suspect, but if he moved inside his slow feet wouldn't be as much of an issue. Another year in the big leagues could do wonders as well.

 

 You are dreaming dude.
  And Reitz (8 sacks) is a middling backup worth upgrading.

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9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think you overlooked what I said. It does not take an expert to see the Colts starting line as a unit has not been very good. As a unit. This differences in opinions serves no purpose when the facts speak for themselves. So using hits, hurries and sacks is a lazy way of speaking facts? No, the facts are what they are. We have not had a 100 yard RB in how long?  So be me saying that I am being lazy? The offensive line has yet to give Luck the time needed to go through any progressions. That has been a problem since day one of Lucks career. I do agree with your comment about needing a guard and a center. Then maybe they can begin  to play as a unit. Till this offensive line is fixed the Colts will never sniff a super bowl.

 

Except that the oline has proven as a "unit" that they have given luck ample time to throw the ball and produce over 4ypc rushers.   So yes it is lazy to state things like "we haven't had a 100 yd rb" when most of the time they only get 10-15 attempts rushing.  It's also inaccurate to say they haven't given him the time when he was leading the league in time to pass...

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2 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Except that the oline has proven as a "unit" that they have given luck ample time to throw the ball and produce over 4ypc rushers.   So yes it is lazy to state things like "we haven't had a 100 yd rb" when most of the time they only get 10-15 attempts rushing.  It's also inaccurate to say they haven't given him the time when he was leading the league in time to pass...

So you are not going to even count the times our RBs have been hit in the backfield as a sign the o-line is not doing a good job? All I see are excuses  when the facts speak for themselves. Even the so called experts have the Colts taking an offensive linemen in the first round. Something so apparent you want to argue about? It does not take a blind man to see the Colts offensive unit have not been good.

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Just now, crazycolt1 said:

So you are not going to even count the times our RBs have been hit in the backfield as a sign the o-line is not doing a good job? All I see are excuses  when the facts speak for themselves. Even the so called experts have the Colts taking an offensive linemen in the first round. Something so apparent you want to argue about? It does not take a blind man to see the Colts offensive unit have not been good.

 

 

What? Lol...  you make an argument saying facts say this and facts say that and now you say what about RBS getting hit in the backfield? Uh yea that happens it's the NFL.  But what I'm saying isn't excuses it's fact that Luck lead the league in time to throw and we statistically have 4 ypc rushers with only 10-15 attempts per game.  Instead of deflecting and calling my stats excuses but yours law would you like to actually converse?

 

Also your supposed "experts" are wanting us to draft tackles which is dumb in itself when the Colts FO have said they want a G and center both prospects you don't want to spend a high first on.  And yes the offensive unit hasn't been good but it has little to do with the quality of the oline and more to do with the ineptness of scheme, coaching, and Luck's play.

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you are not going to even count the times our RBs have been hit in the backfield as a sign the o-line is not doing a good job? All I see are excuses  when the facts speak for themselves. Even the so called experts have the Colts taking an offensive linemen in the first round. Something so apparent you want to argue about? It does not take a blind man to see the Colts offensive unit have not been good.

 

 I would say if OUR line grades at 15, it just means there are a lot of really bad lines out there.
 And Luck is a get hit, turnover machine as he waits for his primary receiver to make his cut.

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2 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I would say if OUR line grades at 15, it just means there are a lot of really bad lines out there.
 And Luck is a get hit, turnover machine as he waits for his primary receiver to make his cut.

 

Now here is a valid argument.  Yes I do think our line is average.  Can it do better? certainly but in comparison to the rest of the league (which is poor all around) then there isn't much more that we can do but learn to scheme around our line.

 

And yes Luck has had this issue since he came into the league.  

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40 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

 

What? Lol...  you make an argument saying facts say this and facts say that and now you say what about RBS getting hit in the backfield? Uh yea that happens it's the NFL.  But what I'm saying isn't excuses it's fact that Luck lead the league in time to throw and we statistically have 4 ypc rushers with only 10-15 attempts per game.  Instead of deflecting and calling my stats excuses but yours law would you like to actually converse?

 

Also your supposed "experts" are wanting us to draft tackles which is dumb in itself when the Colts FO have said they want a G and center both prospects you don't want to spend a high first on.  And yes the offensive unit hasn't been good but it has little to do with the quality of the oline and more to do with the ineptness of scheme, coaching, and Luck's play.

Facts and stats do not tell the whole story. You may twist them into anything you want just by omitting those you choose to. Like I said, it does not take a blind man, or woman for that matter to see the Colts offensive line is lacking and can not be called good enough. There was a reason the running game had been abandoned in games. It is because it wasn't working. Naturally you going to have RBs have what you call a good average when the defenses don't have to worry about the run. The Colts offensive line was so poor the defenses didn't have to blitz to get to our QB. They did that with the basic four man rush. RBs do not get hit in the backfield when the o-line is doing their job. So you think you know better than any of the people who have played football and are paid to break down how it should be played and the personal it takes to be successful?

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13 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Facts and stats do not tell the whole story. You may twist them into anything you want just by omitting those you choose to. Like I said, it does not take a blind man, or woman for that matter to see the Colts offensive line is lacking and can not be called good enough. There was a reason the running game had been abandoned in games. It is because it wasn't working. Naturally you going to have RBs have what you call a good average when the defenses don't have to worry about the run. The Colts offensive line was so poor the defenses didn't have to blitz to get to our QB. They did that with the basic four man rush. RBs do not get hit in the backfield when the o-line is doing their job. So you think you know better than any of the people who have played football and are paid to break down how it should be played and the personal it takes to be successful?

 

Ok I get it.  What you say isn't twisting anything to fit your narrative and your stats are divine law.  You have the ultimate authority because people who do news (to fit certain narratives mind you) agree with your narrative which sorry isn't a narrative its universal fact.  I will go back to the peasants with my excuse stats and blindness.

 

Lol do you even read what you post?

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Brown             Northern Iowa  OT          6'9''        321 149.           Nico Collins         Michigan              WR         6'4"        222 150.           Tommy Togiai    Ohio State           DL3T      6'2"        300 151.           JaCoby Stevens LSU        S              6'1''        228 152.           Jordan Smith      UAB       EDGE     6'7"        255 153.           Tyler Vaughns   USC        WR         6'2"        190 154.           Jack Anderson   Texas Tech          OG         6'5"        315 155.           Bobby Brown III Texas A&M         DL1T      6'3"        325 156.           Darren Hall          San Diego State CB           6'0"        190 157.           Donovan Stiner Florida  S              6'1"        203 158.           Wyatt Hubert    Kansas State       EDGE     6'3"        270 159.           Thomas Graham Jr.         Oregon CB           5'10"      193 160.           Shemar Jean-Charles      Appalachian State            CB           5'11"      190 161.           Malik Herring     Georgia DL5T      6'3"        283 162.           Daelin Hayes      Notre Dame       EDGE     6'4"        268 163.           Tommy Kraemer              Notre Dame       OG         6'6"        317 164.           Marco Wilson    Florida  CB           6'0"        190 165.           Trill Williams       Syracuse              CB           6'2'         198 166.           Shaka Toney       Penn State          EDGE     6'3"        243 167.           Jimmy Morrissey              Pitt         OC          6'3"        305 168.           Sam Ehlinger      Texas    QB          6'3"        225 169.           Sadarius Hutcherson      South Carolina   OG         6'4"        320 170.           D.J. Daniel           Georgia CB           6'0''        183 171.           Camryn Bynum Cal          CB           6'0''        198 172.           Jermar Jefferson              Oregon State     RBC        5'9"        215 173.           Jose Borregales Miami (FL)           PK           5'10"      205 174.           Alaric Jackson    Iowa      OT          6'6"        315 175.           Brennan Eagles Texas    WR         6'2"        225 176.           Tommy Doyle    Miami (OH)         OT          6'8''        326 177.           Jonathan Marshall           Arkansas              DL1T      6'3"        317 178.           Shane Buechele SMU      QB          6'1"        207 179.           Joshua Kaindoh Florida State       EDGE     6'7"        261 180.           James Hudson   Cincinnati            OT          6'5"        310 181.           Benjamin St-Juste            Minnesota          CB           6'3"        200 182.           Demetric Felton                UCLA     RBC        5'9"        189 183.           Victor Dimukeje Duke     EDGE     6'2"        265 184.           Xavier Kelly         Arkansas              DL3T      6'4"        305 185.           Kary Vincent Jr. LSU        CB           5'10"      182 186.           Noah Gray           Duke     TE           6'4"        240 187.           Adrian Ealy          Oklahoma           OT          6'6"        327 188.           Michal Menet   Penn State          OC          6'4''        305 189.           Pressley Harvin III            Georgia Tech      P             6'0"        255 190.           Amen Ogbongbemiga    Oklahoma State OLB        6'1"        231 191.           T.J. Vasher          Texas Tech          WR         6'6"        210 192.           Josh Imatorbhebhe         Illinois   WR         6'2"        215 193.           Matt Bushman  BYU        TE           6'5"        245 194.           Stevie Scott        Indiana RB           6'2"        231 195.           Brady Christensen           BYU        OT          6'6''        300 196.           Quintin Morris   Bowling Green  TE           6'4"        248 197.           Riley Patterson Memphis             PK           6'0"        190 198.           Malcolm Koonce              Buffalo EDGE     6'3"        250 199.           Robert Rochell   Central Arkansas              CB           6'0''        195 200.           Ben Mason         Michigan              FB           6'3"        254
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