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For Those Who Are Happy With Caldwell Returning (Incorrect Title)


theblueplague

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So in 2009, 2010 you think Caldwell proved enough as a Head Coach to withstand a 2-14 record. Fair enough. I 100% disagree, but to each his own.

But simply 'making the playoffs' with Caldwell isn't good enough for me. We can make the playoffs with *insert name here* as long as Manning is playing, so why can't *insert name here* be the best of the best coaches? Or just simply a better coach.

Let me ask a very basic and simple question UncleMark.....What is it that Caldwell does? Do you feel he has excellent game plans? Good 2nd half adjustments? Players play for him? Name one instance to me where you said "Thank goodness we have Caldwell" because of a decision or play being made. Do you have any?

Your general rule is "Colts played good in 09-10 with Peyton an Caldwell"...Well in 09-10 I can find about 100 different scenarios where Peyton helped us achieve something. Can you with Caldwell?

kinda like Phil jackson and the Bulls and Lakers..right?

That's way too simplistic an arguement..

I hear clearly that you dont like Caldwell..

No emotion..his face.......too stupid...

..and I suspect that no amount of success would change your mind..

If you doubted him at 14-0 you'll always doubt him..

but what coach if you brought him in here and he won with Manning would you respect and say it was 1/2 his coaching??

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Anyone who chooses Painter as your starting QB -- much less kept him on the opening roster over Dan O. -- clearly may not be the best bet at evaluating talent and putting them in a position to win. Life is much easier for a HC when a guy like Manning is your starting QB -- remove him and you really get to see what qualifications a coach had. Other than the team not quitting on him in December -- what did he do? Clock management sucked....play calling sucked...choice of QB sucked...in game adjustments....well you ge the idea. If Manning comes back, I'm sure he'll hide many of these issues again....if not, well then Luck will get to start 3-13 and then the Colts will pick near the top of the draft again in 2013 and hopefully Caldwell will finally be gone.

But Caldwell chose Danny O to be on the team..

Caldwell eventually put him in...It was his decision...

You're blaming him for not doing something he actually did do,..

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Anyone who chooses Painter as your starting QB -- much less kept him on the opening roster over Dan O. -- clearly may not be the best bet at evaluating talent and putting them in a position to win. Life is much easier for a HC when a guy like Manning is your starting QB -- remove him and you really get to see what qualifications a coach had. Other than the team not quitting on him in December -- what did he do? Clock management sucked....play calling sucked...choice of QB sucked...in game adjustments....well you ge the idea. If Manning comes back, I'm sure he'll hide many of these issues again....if not, well then Luck will get to start 3-13 and then the Colts will pick near the top of the draft again in 2013 and hopefully Caldwell will finally be gone.

Who's to say, maybe they did'nt quit for Peyton ,he seemed to be the guy most into those last few games on the sideline.
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Ok, ok.

Go ahead and give Caldwell another year, but not with my money. If Uncle Jim wants to spend the money, fine. I AM NOT GONNA. That's because I am CONVINCED he is not a good HC. He is not an average HC. He is worse than a poort HC. He is a NEGATIVE influence head coach. Not with my money. Sorry.

My 289 games in attendance since 1984 will come to a stop for this year.

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Ok, ok.

Go ahead and give Caldwell another year, but not with my money. If Uncle Jim wants to spend the money, fine. I AM NOT GONNA. That's because I am CONVINCED he is not a good HC. He is not an average HC. He is worse than a poort HC. He is a NEGATIVE influence head coach. Not with my money. Sorry.

My 289 games in attendance since 1984 will come to a stop for this year.

..and you'll come back if we make the playoffs again...?

Or is it not about wins and losses.. Its personal? You hate him?

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And THAT says it all.

I dont know JIM C personally..so I cant hate him like that.

But I want thim to coach next season because the combo of JC and Manning and Reggie and Freeney and Mathis

and Addai and Dallas Clark and Jeff Saturday.../

... has always worked for us...

I think there's reason to be loyal to them and optimistic about them.

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kinda like Phil jackson and the Bulls and Lakers..right?

That's way too simplistic an arguement..

I hear clearly that you dont like Caldwell..

No emotion..his face.......too stupid...

..and I suspect that no amount of success would change your mind..

If you doubted him at 14-0 you'll always doubt him..

but what coach if you brought him in here and he won with Manning would you respect and say it was 1/2 his coaching??

Thats the second time you have used a stupid analogy in reference to basektball. If you need for me to explain to you the difference in sports I will gladly do that for you.

No emotion? To Stupid? Your words, not mine, I could care less about his demeanor, and to make it as far in anything as Caldwell has, the guy clearly isn't stupid....

I don't know who that coach would be. I would have to watch them coach. Very similar to how I have watched Caldwell 'coach'.

Plenty of success will change my mind. And Doubting him at 14-0 has nothing to do with anything. As I said, when Caldwell goes out and outschemes someone, or makes a brilliant call etc I will be the first to jump up and applaud. And when he does it on a consistent basis, my opinion will have likely changed.

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..and you'll come back if we make the playoffs again...?

Or is it not about wins and losses.. Its personal? You hate him?

I love him. He is just a lousy head coach. Do you watch the games. Don't you see this team on the field and what they do and DON"T do?

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There is no proof whatsoever, that if you hire whomever the hot coordinator looking for a HC gig, that he would be a good HC. Dick Lebeau failed as a HC for crying out loud and he's the best DC out there. Marvin Lewis was terrible until he got a good QB and a great receiver. Now, he's a candidate for Coach of the Year. There is only 1 Belichick and he ain't going nowhere.

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Thats the second time you have used a stupid analogy in reference to basektball. If you need for me to explain to you the difference in sports I will gladly do that for you.

No emotion? To Stupid? Your words, not mine, I could care less about his demeanor, and to make it as far in anything as Caldwell has, the guy clearly isn't stupid....

I don't know who that coach would be. I would have to watch them coach. Very similar to how I have watched Caldwell 'coach'.

Plenty of success will change my mind. And Doubting him at 14-0 has nothing to do with anything. As I said, when Caldwell goes out and outschemes someone, or makes a brilliant call etc I will be the first to jump up and applaud. And when he does it on a consistent basis, my opinion will have likely changed.

You dont know who you want but you want Caldwell fired..

..and that's not emotional.

You dont care about the 16-3 or the 10-7.

Only the 2-14 matters.

What the players say doesn't matter..

Only what you want even though you dont have and cant name a replacement you'd prefer?

Not Andy Reid, Not Marv Turner. Not Lovie Smith. Not Rex Ryan.

See?

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Ok, ok.

Go ahead and give Caldwell another year, but not with my money. If Uncle Jim wants to spend the money, fine. I AM NOT GONNA. That's because I am CONVINCED he is not a good HC. He is not an average HC. He is worse than a poort HC. He is a NEGATIVE influence head coach. Not with my money. Sorry.

My 289 games in attendance since 1984 will come to a stop for this year.

Good for you BigUgly. I discontinued my 2 years ago, I saw all this coming a mile away. Some people talk, other take action. At least your backing yourself up.

However it wasn't for lack of 'fandom' for me it was more cost-benefit ratio......$2000+ for 10 games,+ playoff tickets week 13.....parking, food, etc......

Or I can pay 400 and watch every single NFL game...The choice was easy....

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There is no proof whatsoever, that if you hire whomever the hot coordinator looking for a HC gig, that he would be a good HC. Dick Lebeau failed as a HC for crying out loud and he's the best DC out there. Marvin Lewis was terrible until he got a good QB and a great receiver. Now, he's a candidate for Coach of the Year. There is only 1 Belichick and he ain't going nowhere.

Romeo in KC is a god example...

Loved..hated..Now loved again...

Its like the strip club...They look perfect from the bar :flirt:

but if you ever get them...they have problems you didnt see :nutz:

..but then you want another one :flirty:

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WHAT IF.... Bill P was the "puppetmaster" and Jim NOW gets to "do his thing?" ...

Heck with it ... give him a chance.

This really is a soap opera.. NFL style .. Irsay really needs to end this silllyness soon.

One way or another.

If that is true, it says something about his character to allow someone pull his "strings" For the same reason we all talked about why none of the upper echelon coaches wouldnt consider working for the Polians, you have to question the ones that do
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They scored 16 points in the first quarter TOTAL in 13 ball games. They were NOT prepared. The Little Sisters of the Poor could have scored 16 points in 13 games WITHOUT a head coach.

Really..with what coach?

Who'd have won with Curtis Painter.

Lombardi.....Parcells....Belichek?

With Curtis painter at QB...who wold have won 8 games?

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If that is true, it says something about his character to allow someone pull his "strings" For the same reason we all talked about why none of the upper echelon coaches wouldnt consider working for the Polians, you have to question the ones that do

Maybe Caldwell won power struggle with Bill and Chris Polian.

You could look at it that way.

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You dont know who you want but you want Caldwell fired..

..and that's not emotional.

You dont care about the 16-3 or the 10-7.

Only the 2-14 matters.

What the players say doesn't matter..

Only what you want even though you dont have and cant name a replacement you'd prefer?

Not Andy Reid, Not Marv Turner. Not Lovie Smith. Not Rex Ryan.

See?

:edit:

Caldwells firing has nothing to do with emotion, it has everything to do with better options being available...

I don't care about 2-14, I don't care about 14-0.... I care about watching my coach make the right calls, getting gutsy, doing something of value to put his team in position to win. Win. Loss. Dont care, as long as he is making an attempt to do something other than the mundane or status quo....

What the players say doesnt matter. They will always say 'the right thing'. Its how things work.

There are plenty of names I can throw out that I would prefer over Caldwell, I didnt realize I needed to list them all for you. But for the sake of argument, all those guys you mentioned have done more with less than JC. So we can start there.

Edited by PeytonGirl
personal shot - 'You. Are. THICK.'
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When it comes to Caldwell, I don't see coaching brilliance. I can name several times when he actually cost us a game due to his poor decision making, and cannot name a time when I thought we won a game directly because of a decision that he made.

Let me give you a few examples:

In the Super Bowl against the Saints, it was clear that he was out-coached by Sean Payton. Coach Payton made a bold decision to go for an on-side kick after half time. That was a bold move and worked in his favor. That's an instance where if you are a Saint fan, you can say that you won that game because of coaching.

This weekend, the Forty Niners were trailing the Saints in the fourth quarter. They ran a bootleg, which caught everyone off gaurd, and they scored on that play. It was a brilliant play call. You can argue that the Niner's won due to their coaching.

When have we won because of a coaching decision by our coaching staff?

Also, the argument that the players like Caldwell is not a good arguement. We as Colts fans can see that Norv Turner is not a good head coach, right? However, the players want to keep him in SD. It's because people don't like change.

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Really..with what coach?

Who'd have won with Curtis Painter.

Lombardi.....Parcells....Belichek?

With Curtis painter at QB...who wold have won 8 games?

Who went with Curtis Painter.... .... Who kept sending Painter out there running an offense that was set up for him to fail? Throwing passes at a rate higher than Manning in 04, Brady in 07. Smart coaching right there...

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You. Are. THICK.

Caldwells firing has nothing to do with emotion, it has everything to do with better options being available...

I don't care about 2-14, I don't care about 14-0.... I care about watching my coach make the right calls, getting gutsy, doing something of value to put his team in position to win. Win. Loss. Dont care, as long as he is making an attempt to do something other than the mundane or status quo....

What the players say doesnt matter. They will always say 'the right thing'. Its how things work.

There are plenty of names I can throw out that I would prefer over Caldwell, I didnt realize I needed to list them all for you. But for the sake of argument, all those guys you mentioned have done more with less than JC. So we can start there.

Trav..when you say you dont care about 2-14 or 14-2...

Lovie Smith has never been 14-2...Neither has Andy Reid...and Phily has more talent than we do.

Listen to what you're saying..

This is a total emotional arguement..

You've overflowing with hatred for a coach that coached your team to the SUPER BOWL...3 years ago

..and you hate anyone who defends him...

..and youd prefer 3 guys who have never won a Super Bowl and didnt make the playoffs this year with far better 2011 teams

You have to see that's a little off. Dont you?

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Who went with Curtis Painter.... .... Who kept sending Painter out there running an offense that was set up for him to fail? Throwing passes at a rate higher than Manning in 04, Brady in 07. Smart coaching right there...

But FJC..who else was there ..Danny O///.Caldwell put him in....

...is there any coach now in the NFL who'd have gone 9-7 with the 2011 Colts..in your mind?

Bill Belichek?

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Look at it this way. The Colts were 14-2 with Manning. Then Manning is out for a year and Caldwell has a chance to prove that he is a good head coach. Instead, he takes a team that went 14-2 and leads us to a 2-14 season.

You can say that of course we were goint to lose without Manning. Then that would tell you that Caldwell also didn't have much to do with the wins the previous year.

Knowing that Manning was not going to play, he should have drastically changed the offense and simplified our approach. Instead, he tells Painter to go out there and throw forty times a game. Yes, because that's playing to our strengths, right?

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The timeout is not what lost this Jets game. It was the inability of the special teams and the defense to make plays when they had to. Blame it on Ray or Larry or Jim and their (in)ability to game plan/coach the players to succeed; blame it on Jim for hiring Ray and Larry (obviously both were a mistake due to circumstances that may or may not have been completely in their control); blame it on the players not making plays (where were Frathis and Jacob Lacey?) or putting forth maximum effort (Jerry Hughes on the return); and/or blame it on the Polians for undervaluing special teams and key defensive positions. Stop blaming it on the timeout already. Does anyone truly believe we would have won that game if JC wouldn't have called a timeout? I knew the game was lost as soon as Cromartie returned it to around midfield. If anything, the timeout would have left the maximum amount of time on the clock had Lacey made a play and the Jets made the field goal or would have pushed the Jets further back and possibly out of field goal range had Frathis made a play. There were a lot of bad things that happened after the Colts scored the go ahead TD, and the timeout is last on that list.

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Lovie Smith has never been 14-2...Neither has Andy Reid...and Phily has more talent than we do.

Listen to what you're saying..

This is a total emotional arguement..

You've overflowing with hatred for a coach that coached your team to the SUPER BOWL...3 years ago

..and you hate anyone who defends him...

..and youd prefer 3 guys who have never won a Super Bowl and didnt make the playoffs this year with far better 2011 teams

You have to see that's a little off. Dont you?

Wow you are priceless.

Ried and Lovie never been 14-2? If we are playing that game.....Which one went 2-14? You really want to have those guys compare hardware with JC? Seriously?

This is zero emotion. Why would I be emotional about this. My meno-pause wont kick in for another 10 years. Over flowing with hatered for Caldwell? Hating his supporters? Wow bro, hyperbole much? You are really grasping at straws.

And I pefer 3 guys who havent won a SB or make playoffs this year. B/c that has correlation to what exactly. So you are saying you think Caldwell is a better coach than Andy Ried?

Im all for a fun, logical debate on the merits of why we should/shouldn't keep Caldwell, but you come in mentioning "Hate' about a dozen times, then claim he is a better coach then Andy Ried. You and I are done here.

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But FJC..who else was there ..Danny O///.Caldwell put him in....

...is there any coach now in the NFL who'd have gone 9-7 with the 2011 Colts..in your mind?

Bill Belichek?

9-7 doubtful. Would Belichick won 2 games? Yeah in the first 6.

After 13 weeks he made a change.

It's not about the quarterback as much was it about Caldwell/Christensen sending Collins/Painter out in a system that they had no business running. When Manning goes under the knife for the 2nd time, the Manning offense should have been set aside.

JC/CC/Offensive staff should have come together and made changes that would have allowed for Collins to have a better start to the season. That would have allowed Painter/Orlvosky to have a better chance at success if they need to play, but no they sent Collins out there with 2 weeks of work in a system he would struggle to run adequately if he had 5 years in it, then he gets concussed, and they send Painter, a player that has no business on an NFL roster out and have him throw at a higher rate than Peyton Manning ever did except for the past 3 years. Curtis Painter was running an offense that had higher pass to run ratio than Marino did in 84, Manning did in 04, and Brady did in 2007, and that is just pure stupidity. That falls on the OC and HC and they are both horrible.

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Wow you are priceless.

Ried and Lovie never been 14-2? If we are playing that game.....Which one went 2-14? You really want to have those guys compare hardware with JC? Seriously?

This is zero emotion. Why would I be emotional about this. My meno-pause wont kick in for another 10 years. Over flowing with hatered for Caldwell? Hating his supporters? Wow bro, hyperbole much? You are really grasping at straws.

And I pefer 3 guys who havent won a SB or make playoffs this year. B/c that has correlation to what exactly. So you are saying you think Caldwell is a better coach than Andy Ried?

Im all for a fun, logical debate on the merits of why we should/shouldn't keep Caldwell, but you come in mentioning "Hate' about a dozen times, then claim he is a better coach then Andy Ried. You and I are done here.

Don't you get it Trav? He's the best coach ever. Caldwell must be twice the coach of Nick Saban since he* won more games in 1 year than Saban won in 2 in Miami.

Put him in Canton... Just get him out of Indy...

Italicized for sarcasm.

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This entire thread in a nutshell:

JC/CC/Offensive staff should have come together and made changes that would have allowed for Collins to have a better start to the season. That would have allowed Painter/Orlvosky to have a better chance at success if they need to play, but no they sent Collins out there with 2 weeks of work in a system he would struggle to run adequately if he had 5 years in it, then he gets concussed, and they send Painter, a player that has no business on an NFL roster out and have him throw at a higher rate than Peyton Manning ever did except for the past 3 years. Curtis Painter was running an offense that had higher pass to run ratio than Marino did in 84, Manning did in 04, and Brady did in 2007,

Anti-Caldwell

10-7..4-0 in December in 2010..

..,signed..Colts fan!!

Pro-Caldwell

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Wow you are priceless.

Ried and Lovie never been 14-2? If we are playing that game.....Which one went 2-14? You really want to have those guys compare hardware with JC? Seriously?

This is zero emotion. Why would I be emotional about this. My meno-pause wont kick in for another 10 years. Over flowing with hatered for Caldwell? Hating his supporters? Wow bro, hyperbole much? You are really grasping at straws.

And I pefer 3 guys who havent won a SB or make playoffs this year. B/c that has correlation to what exactly. So you are saying you think Caldwell is a better coach than Andy Ried?

Im all for a fun, logical debate on the merits of why we should/shouldn't keep Caldwell, but you come in mentioning "Hate' about a dozen times, then claim he is a better coach then Andy Ried. You and I are done here.

..Words have meaning......Ask the folks who agree wuth you f they hate Caldwell because that's the emotion that's being expressed..

I think when you say that 16-3 means little...that you might have gripped a few dozen straws, too.

You have to see that if its a fun, logical debate.

You say you dont hate Caldwell? It its hyperbole...? Okay......You dont actually mean what you are saying. Okay.

fair enough...Good. Because the othehr posters say its personal and I dont get that

I'll stay with logic..and in answer to your direct question I'm saying that Caldwell is a better coach for THIS TEAM than Andy Reid would be or that Lovie Smith would be for the Colts

Without question..

That's not hyperbole.. I actually mean that.

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9-7 doubtful. Would Belichick won 2 games? Yeah in the first 6.

After 13 weeks he made a change.

It's not about the quarterback as much was it about Caldwell/Christensen sending Collins/Painter out in a system that they had no business running. When Manning goes under the knife for the 2nd time, the Manning offense should have been set aside.

JC/CC/Offensive staff should have come together and made changes that would have allowed for Collins to have a better start to the season. That would have allowed Painter/Orlvosky to have a better chance at success if they need to play, but no they sent Collins out there with 2 weeks of work in a system he would struggle to run adequately if he had 5 years in it, then he gets concussed, and they send Painter, a player that has no business on an NFL roster out and have him throw at a higher rate than Peyton Manning ever did except for the past 3 years. Curtis Painter was running an offense that had higher pass to run ratio than Marino did in 84, Manning did in 04, and Brady did in 2007, and that is just pure stupidity. That falls on the OC and HC and they are both horrible.

And his mistakes in a year when he did not have his QB

outweigh the two playoff seasons and the one Super Bowl year.?

I cant seem to get a direct answer to that.

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..Words have meaning......Ask the folks who agree wuth you f they hate Caldwell because that's the emotion that's being expressed..

I think when you say that 16-3 means little...that you might have gripped a few dozen straws, too.

You have to see that if its a fun, logical debate.

You say you dont hate Caldwell? It its hyperbole...? Okay......You dont actually mean what you are saying. Okay.

fair enough...Good. Because the othehr posters say its personal and I dont get that

I'll stay with logic..and in answer to your direct question I'm saying that Caldwell is a better coach for THIS TEAM than Andy Reid would be or that Lovie Smith would be for the Colts

Without question..

That's not hyperbole.. I actually mean that.

I have zero idea what you are trying to say.

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And his mistakes in a year when he did not have his QB

outweigh the two playoff seasons and the one Super Bowl year.?

I cant seem to get a direct answer to that.

Yes.

First 2 years=minimal coaching-cruise control

This year= a chance to coach,prove his worth, 2-14

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The timeout is not what lost this Jets game. It was the inability of the special teams and the defense to make plays when they had to. Blame it on Ray or Larry or Jim and their (in)ability to game plan/coach the players to succeed; blame it on Jim for hiring Ray and Larry (obviously both were a mistake due to circumstances that may or may not have been completely in their control); blame it on the players not making plays (where were Frathis and Jacob Lacey?) or putting forth maximum effort (Jerry Hughes on the return); and/or blame it on the Polians for undervaluing special teams and key defensive positions. Stop blaming it on the timeout already. Does anyone truly believe we would have won that game if JC wouldn't have called a timeout? I knew the game was lost as soon as Cromartie returned it to around midfield. If anything, the timeout would have left the maximum amount of time on the clock had Lacey made a play and the Jets made the field goal or would have pushed the Jets further back and possibly out of field goal range had Frathis made a play. There were a lot of bad things that happened after the Colts scored the go ahead TD, and the timeout is last on that list.

Mark Sanchez had all the pressure in the world do you really think he wouldve called his line adjustments play and all that without the timeout and then nail that pass down the sideline? THE TIMEOUT COST US THE GAME ULTIMATELY THE SAME WAY IT DID IN JACKSONVILLE EARLIER IN THE YEAR
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But you want Lovie Smith?

Call Chicago.

:flag: I don't Lovie Smith. He would do as good as better than Caldwell, but I don't want Lovie Smith. If given the choice between the 2 and only those 2, then yes he would be an upgrade to Caldwell.

And his mistakes in a year when he did not have his QB

outweigh the two playoff seasons and the one Super Bowl year.?

I cant seem to get a direct answer to that.

Maybe if you re-read that post and the other posts. You will begin to understand.

In each of his 3 seasons, his negatives outweigh his positives, and that includes 2009, 2010, and 2011.

His negatives in each of those 3 years outweigh any positives he might have provided in those 3 years. Is that direct enough for you? i doubt it.

Edited by PeytonGirl
getting into personal insult territory 'Again, your reading comprehension is almost as bad as your ability to express..'
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