Colts Need A 21St Century Tight End

[oldunclemark]

I'm sure I'm not the first to think this but the Colts are living in the past at tight end

guys like Dallas Clark..with sure hands..and decent run blocks.

..or power blockers like Brody Eldridge..with decent hands..

...Dont we need the 6-foot-6 guy who used to platy basketball....who is far too tall for more DBs and too quick for most linebackers..?

Guys you simply have to hold to stop?

like GB has..like NE has..like NO has???

I'm not even saying to ashcan Dallas Clark..

We need a tall mobile TE to play with Clark in two TE sets....

To dominate the center of the field and get single coverage outside....

..what is the downside of not having a slot receiver and lining up with two TEs...??

[NagelHausForge]

I would agree with that... I would love to see us find someone like GB, NO and NE has. Problem is that I don't know if there are many to be had in the drafts. Where do you look to find these Basketball/ Football hybrids?

Guess we will see what our new GM can do with good draft positioning this year.... and hopefully a healthy PM!

[oldunclemark]

I would agree with that... I would love to see us find someone like GB, NO and NE has. Problem is that I don't know if there are many to be had in the drafts. Where do you look to find these Basketball/ Football hybrids?

Guess we will see what our new GM can do with good draft positioning this year.... and hopefully a healthy PM!

Good point....I dont see them...maybe you have to see them as projects like the SF guy..

ND's tight end Tyler Eifert...is what..6-4, 245.....that's old school

[NagelHausForge]

I believe we signed an OL that played basketball in College and football in HS.... I want to say it was Joe Reitz if I am not mistaken.... I could be wrong though.... I imagine they are out there... just few and far between I guess.

Should be a fun offseason though! Its like a soap opera!

[Coffeedrinker]

Yeah, why haven't the Colts ever thought about having a former basketball player play TE for them.

[cmgww]

Keep in mind for years Clark was considered a top pass catching TE bc he had the speed to beat LBs and good hands. He freed up the WRs bc he demanded a CB or safety help. Injuries the past few years have affected him though and not just physically. While part of it this year was not having trusty Manning throwing to him, I also saw a lot of alligator arming out there. If we keep him and he can shake off the mental issues from having his wrist crushed by LaRon Landry....he can still be a dangerous weapon. OP...you seem to forget how many crucial catches he made due to his speed and the mismatches he created.

[MAC]

The only thing that I object to in this thread is the title. It's been the 21st century for the entirety of Clarks career, and he's been tremendous for the Colts. Yes, it's now a valid question whether he is losing effectiveness and diminishing the Colts offense in the process. Yes, it's notable that Gronkowski and Graham in particular are becoming such standouts for their teams that a LOT of clubs will be looking to mimic them by upgrading - perhaps even the Colts. If they see the right guy in the right spot, I'm sure they'll take him. When you think Luck, you also think Fleener, so who knows. But in the meantime Clark is still under contract and catching balls (despite missing Manning). There are probably other priorities in the early rounds.

[SilentHill]

I'm sure I'm not the first to think this but the Colts are living in the past at tight end

guys like Dallas Clark..with sure hands..and decent run blocks.

..or power blockers like Brody Eldridge..with decent hands..

...Dont we need the 6-foot-6 guy who used to platy basketball....who is far too tall for more DBs and too quick for most linebackers..?

Guys you simply have to hold to stop?

like GB has..like NE has..like NO has???

I'm not even saying to ashcan Dallas Clark..

We need a tall mobile TE to play with Clark in two TE sets....

To dominate the center of the field and get single coverage outside....

..what is the downside of not having a slot receiver and lining up with two TEs...??

Don't we have one of them Gronkowski brothers? Lets just make him a TE.

[Mameluc]

I think People are doing 3 things:

forgetting how good Clarck is, because he's ben injured last 2 seasons (btw im on the bandwaggon that Clarck's deal MUST be restructured)

seeing gronkowski/graham as the new thing on the NFL..again aided because of the lack of presence of dallas clarck

and just trying to rationalize why we need a "modern" TE...there is nothing oldschool on dallas, if anything he SUCKS at blocking and teams rarely threat him as a TE, mostly as a WR.

JMO.

but again, given his injury history he needs to restructure the deal

[deedub75]

Don't we have one of them Gronkowski brothers? Lets just make him a TE.

We have the least notable of the Gronkowski borhters.

[HGRekks]

Honestly, I think it'd be smart to draft Coby Fleener if Luck is the pick. I think there is a decent chance Clark either takes a cut or goes, so there might be an opening for a TE. Regardless, if Peyton sticks around, he can bide his time with Luck. I think he's tall enough, athletic enough, and a good enough route runner to be on this team with the current scheme. Beyond that, I think it's wise to give Luck a sense of continuity if it also benefits the team. I certainly think Fleener is a good motion blocker and has promise in-line. The only problem is that the team has 3 TEs that are all worth their pay.

I don't think Fleener is that super athlete, though. I think Graham and Gronkowski are amazing guys, but it's not fair to think teams can just grab guys like that. Nonetheless, I think it'd make sense.

[Captain Americolt]

Fleener is projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round. He is 6 ft. 6 and 245 pounds i think. I also heard hes the 3rd fastest on the stanford team. Either their WRs are super slow or hes incredibly fast. Anyhow, i think we should draft him if we want one of those "21st century TEs" oldunclemark was talking about

[Smitto]

Coby Fleener should be on the colts radar in the 3rd round... hopefully he's still there.. i love this guy, when he gets into the league he's gonna shine no doubt about that... he can run block and very athletic. Would be good to see the colts part ways with Clark, the colts need to get tougher at and Clark isnt that when it comes to run blocking

[Coffeedrinker]

Fleener is projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round. He is 6 ft. 6 and 245 pounds i think. I also heard hes the 3rd fastest on the stanford team. Either their WRs are super slow or hes incredibly fast. Anyhow, i think we should draft him if we want one of those "21st century TEs" oldunclemark was talking about

The receivers are pretty slow.

But Fleener is good. I don't think TE is such a need as worthing of spending the 34th pick on him but if the Colts, through some trades, get a mid 2nd round I would not mind at all hearing his name called.

[jskinnz]

I'm sure I'm not the first to think this but the Colts are living in the past at tight end guys like Dallas Clark..with sure hands..and decent run blocks. ..or power blockers like Brody Eldridge..with decent hands.. ...Dont we need the 6-foot-6 guy who used to platy basketball....who is far too tall for more DBs and too quick for most linebackers..? Guys you simply have to hold to stop? like GB has..like NE has..like NO has??? I'm not even saying to ashcan Dallas Clark.. We need a tall mobile TE to play with Clark in two TE sets.... To dominate the center of the field and get single coverage outside.... ..what is the downside of not having a slot receiver and lining up with two TEs...??

The Colts were one of the teams that started this recent trend. Clark has long been the type of athletic tight end that causes match-up nightmares for defenses. Like Mac said, you can argue that his skills are declining and that an upgrade may be in order, but the notion that they need to catch up with the times is misguided because they were among the trend-setters for the way the position is being played these days.

[04DarkShadowGT]

Clark and Tamme have been pretty good the last 4 years or so. Sure a guy like Gronkowski is a matchup nightmare but when Peyton and Dallas are healthy, Clark was bascially unstoppable too.

[SanAntonioColt]

The Colts need a tall TE and at least one tall WR. Colts receivers cannot win the 50/50 ball and are not strong enough to get and keep body position resulting in too many of Peyton's picks. Peyton has never had the big, tall guy, he can throw the high ball over LBs in the endzone, His passes could be less-than-perfect.

[Fatboyslim11]

I believe the team should upgrade the TE position. Clark is ok at pass catching, although he drops far too many passes. He is below average as a run blocker and our other two TEs, Brody Eldridge and JacobTamme are average at best.

The 2012 draft have several intriguing TE prospects. If we picked a TE in the 3^rd or 4^th round and want to go the bigger, more athletic type we should look at Josh Chichester from Louisville. He is 6-8, 240, runs a 4.70 forty and can catch. He is a below average blocker though. An alternative would be Jake Stoneburner from the Ohio state university. Jake is 6-5, weighs 250, 4.7 forty; can block and had seven TDs this year.

If we opt to go for a TE in the 2^nd round I agree Colby Fleener from Stanford (6-6, 250; 4.8 forty ;) or Dwayne Allen from Clemson (6-4, 255; 4.6 forty; 48 catches for 8 TDs and can run block).

[Smonroe]

NE hit the jackpot with those two talented TE's, and they changed their offense to make them prominent. And I'm sure a lot of teams in the league are going to try to imitate them. It helps when you have a great line and Brady at QB.

I'm not arguing that we don't need a big, strong, fast TE (who doesn't?). I'm just saying I won't be surprised when defenses catch up next year and start putting bigger safeties on those guys.

NE will adjust and move on to the next version of a great offense, and the rest of the league will be followers again.

[GrizzColt]

If it were Polian, I am guessing he would say we just drafted Eldridge and that Tamme has proven that he can be a successful suitor to Clark. We have no idea what Grigson will think. I am all for the new hybrid TE. Anyone remember when Bobby Knight suggested one of his basketball players as a TE? That didn't work out for whatever reason and he was 6'8" or 6'9".

[GoColts8818]

The funny thing here is BB has said they drafted Gronkowski and Hernandez because of how Dallas Clark had killed them in match ups and thought a play making tightend would be a nice weapon to have.

Also Dallas IS a modern tightend. Tightends were mostly used as blockers and who could catch a pass now and then (see Ken Dilger as a classic example of this) till teams like the Colts started useing guys like Clark, well really the Colts started with Pollard and then followed him up with Clark.

With that said I do think there is real reason to be concerned about Clark going forward. He had a bad season and not all of it was because he didn't have Peyton although i would say he was effected more than anyone else by not having Peyton. Still he dropped way too many passes that were catchable and he should have made. I am worried about his wrist.

I will say till we figure out what we are doing with Tamme, Garcon, and Wayne it's going to be hard to just release him till we atleast bring a couple of those players back if we do.

Also just for the record our starting former college basketball player is our left guard at the moment.

[oldunclemark]

NE hit the jackpot with those two talented TE's, and they changed their offense to make them prominent. And I'm sure a lot of teams in the league are going to try to imitate them. It helps when you have a great line and Brady at QB.

I'm not arguing that we don't need a big, strong, fast TE (who doesn't?). I'm just saying I won't be surprised when defenses catch up next year and start putting bigger safeties on those guys.

NE will adjust and move on to the next version of a great offense, and the rest of the league will be followers again.

Do you really think defenses will find bigger, taller safeties to cover guys like Gronkowski?

I dont think that's possible....a 6'6 safety would either be a linebacker or a liability against the run..

[Coffeedrinker]

NE hit the jackpot with those two talented TE's, and they changed their offense to make them prominent. And I'm sure a lot of teams in the league are going to try to imitate them. It helps when you have a great line and Brady at QB.

I'm not arguing that we don't need a big, strong, fast TE (who doesn't?). I'm just saying I won't be surprised when defenses catch up next year and start putting bigger safeties on those guys.

NE will adjust and move on to the next version of a great offense, and the rest of the league will be followers again.

And NE has been trying for years to get that combination.

1961 19 0 0 Joe Bellino Navy TE 2011 5 28 159 Lee Smith Marshall 2010 2 10 42 Rob Gronkowski Arizona 2010 4 15 113 Aaron Hernandez Florida 2006 3 22 86 Dave Thomas Texas 2006 4 9 106 Garrett Mills Tulsa 2005 7 41 255 Andy Stokes William Penn 2004 1 32 32 Ben Watson Georgia 2003 7 20 234 Spencer Nead Brigham Young 2002 1 21 21 Dan Graham Colorado 2001 4 24 119 Jabari Holloway Notre Dame

Colts fans would have had a fit if Polian and Company spent that many draft picks on a TE.

[oldunclemark]

Keep in mind for years Clark was considered a top pass catching TE bc he had the speed to beat LBs and good hands. He freed up the WRs bc he demanded a CB or safety help. Injuries the past few years have affected him though and not just physically. While part of it this year was not having trusty Manning throwing to him, I also saw a lot of alligator arming out there. If we keep him and he can shake off the mental issues from having his wrist crushed by LaRon Landry....he can still be a dangerous weapon. OP...you seem to forget how many crucial catches he made due to his speed and the mismatches he created.

Clark is great when healthy ..CM..but imagine him in tandem withn a 6-foot-6 TE on the otehr side..

with Wayne and Garcon on the outside....

It would be very hard to blitiz Manning under those circumstances...and it would open up the run game..

I still wonder (I dont know) what strategically do you lose without a slot receiver?

Its easier to jam 4 receivers on the line...

Didnt NE lijne up one of their TEs in the backfield and run him 5 times...

Why did that work?

[Smonroe]

Do you really think defenses will find bigger, taller safeties to cover guys like Gronkowski?

I dont think that's possible....a 6'6 safety would either be a linebacker or a liability against the run..

LOL! You obviously don't need a 6'6 safety to cover a tight end, or else every TE in the league would have 100 catches. Safeties are more physical, but slower than CBs. I'm saying the D's will have to compensate against NE by playing nickle and dime S's, instead of CBs.

We'll probably see how the rest of the league will try to handle them this coming weekend when they play the Ravens.

[jskinnz]

Clark is great when healthy ..CM..but imagine him in tandem withn a 6-foot-6 TE on the otehr side..

with Wayne and Garcon on the outside....

It would be very hard to blitiz Manning under those circumstances...and it would open up the run game..

I still wonder (I dont know) what strategically do you lose without a slot receiver?

Its easier to jam 4 receivers on the line...

Didnt NE lijne up one of their TEs in the backfield and run him 5 times...

Why did that work?

Why the hang-up on height? Isn't a 6'2" TE with talent better than a 6'6" guy whose primary talent is being 6'6"?

Davis was awesome on Saturday and he is not near that height.

[Smonroe]

Why the hang-up on height? Isn't a 6'2" TE with talent better than a 6'6" guy whose primary talent is being 6'6"?

Davis was awesome on Saturday and he is not near that height.

I think they're trying to point out that a 6'6" guy (with talent) is a match up nightmare. They're also not growing on trees, as Coffeedrinker pointed out.

Talent beats size every time.

[oldunclemark]

Why the hang-up on height? Isn't a 6'2" TE with talent better than a 6'6" guy whose primary talent is being 6'6"?

Davis was awesome on Saturday and he is not near that height.

True 'J'

But Gronkowski is lethal..and a lot of it is 5-11 safeties trying to check him.

A guy doenst have to be a great route runner if he's 6-foot-6 near the goal line.

I love Dallas Clark..but I'd love him like Tebow loves Sunday morning if he was 6-foot-7

[MAC]

With that said I do think there is real reason to be concerned about Clark going forward. He had a bad season and not all of it was because he didn't have Peyton although i would say he was effected more than anyone else by not having Peyton. Still he dropped way too many passes that were catchable and he should have made. I am worried about his wrist.

Clarks defining features always seemed to be speed and hands. He would bust through the seam wide open and spear the ball with one hand. This year he often looked like the ball was his enemy, and age will inevitably affect his speed. I hope they can make an accurate determination of his status before the draft - because when he is missing or isn't "right" the offense just isn't the same.

[doogansquest]

They may not be easy to find. I think a lot of pass-first teams will be seeking them out after watching 3 teams throw for 5,000+ yards this season on the backs of said TE's.

I'm all for it if they can be had.

[jskinnz]

True 'J'

But Gronkowski is lethal..and a lot of it is 5-11 safeties trying to check him.

A guy doenst have to be a great route runner if he's 6-foot-6 near the goal line.

I love Dallas Clark..but I'd love him like Tebow loves Sunday morning if he was 6-foot-7

The larger issue is having the speed, quickness and athleticism than just outright size. If the 6'7" guy can't catch a cold, it is a moot point.

[Fatboyslim11]

The larger issue is having the speed, quickness and athleticism than just outright size. If the 6'7" guy can't catch a cold, it is a moot point.

That is true of any player. No team will keep a player based purely on size (just as they wouldn't keep one based solely on weight). The point is a taller, more athletic TE with size, speed and blocking ability is better than a smaller pass catching, drops too many passes poor run blocking TE.

[jskinnz]

That is true of any player. No team will keep a player based purely on size (just as they wouldn't keep one based solely on weight). The point is a taller, more athletic TE with size, speed and blocking ability is better than a smaller pass catching, drops too many passes poor run blocking TE.

Did not need that explained to me.

[bWild]

I agree with this fully. Lots of the elite offenses have one of these type of weapons and I wouldn't be surprised if Dallas Clark gets the axe this off-season. If Peyton is staying put like I believe he is, I'm sure we'll get him someone that fits that mold. It's a copycat league they say.

[Fx Stryker]

If anything Dallas Clark was the "modern" TE. Teams are going back to the old style though.

[Smonroe]

The larger issue is having the speed, quickness and athleticism than just outright size. If the 6'7" guy can't catch a cold, it is a moot point.

Yep. We should throw out the height requirements and just ask - Do the Colts need an upgrade at TE? (Assuming Clark isn't signed)

Keep in mind, the reason we wouldn't sign Clark is cap space. So, then the question is - Can the Colts find a better TE than Tamme in the draft or as a cheap FA?

[jskinnz]

Yep. We should throw out the height requirements and just ask - Do the Colts need an upgrade at TE? (Assuming Clark isn't signed)

Keep in mind, the reason we wouldn't sign Clark is cap space. So, then the question is - Can the Colts find a better TE than Tamme in the draft or as a cheap FA?

Kind of topic but I think Tamme is 2nd most important FA the Colts need to bring back in 2012, behind Garcon.

And BTW - Clark is under contract for 2012. The question is does contract match performance and if not, what is the financial penalty for releasing him?

[JoKeR]

I wonder if some of you even know who Dallas Clark is.

Since when has Clark been a old school TE? And then I read that Clark has OK hands?!

[oldunclemark]

IF we cut where were are string.,,

Then I guess Clark goes.....(Tamme)

Brackett goes (Angerer)

and Addai goes (Brown, Carter)...

I'd hate to see that but it keeps being said that we have to cut payroll and I would like to resign Reggie Wayne. He's not washed up.

[Smonroe]

Kind of topic but I think Tamme is 2nd most important FA the Colts need to bring back in 2012, behind Garcon.

And BTW - Clark is under contract for 2012. The question is does contract match performance and if not, what is the financial penalty for releasing him?

You are correct. According to Colts Authority, Clark is due to get $8M in 12. We only save $1M if he's cut, leaving us with about $7M in dead money.

So, it makes no sense to cut him. But he's going to have to restructure.

Back to the OP, a number of people pointed out that quality TE's (no matter what size) are hard to find. It's easy to say that we need a 6'6" guy with hands and speed. That's a no brainer for every team.