coltfaninnewyork Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes. Spags went 1-15 in his first year and Tom Landry went 0-11-1 at one point. I also think that Jimmie Johnson went 2-14 in Aikman's rookie year.Okay i think spags was bradford's rookie year as well and i think those coaches were all in their first year's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeedrinker Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I agree the pro bowl thing is popularity contest but my point is this team had more talent than the 1998 team,and yet could only muster 2 win's.I just do not think caldwell deserves another shot,just my opinion.I have followed the nfl for a lot of years, has any head coach in the history of the league survived a 2-14 or worse?You bring up an interesting point. Let's look at it. If you disagree with any of my choices just say so.QB - Manning -- Collins/Painter/O--- 1998RB - Faulk -- Addai/Brown/Carter -- 1998WR - Harrison/Greene/Pathon -- Wayne/Garcon/Collie -- drawTE - Dilger/Pollard -- Clark/Tamme/Eldridge -- 1998 (if Clark had been healthy that would have gone to 2011)Tackles - Glenn/Meadows -- AC/Linkenbach -- 1998Guards -- McKinney/Mandarich - Pollack/Reitz -- 1998Center - Leewenburg/Saturday - 2011 but closeDefenseDT -- McCoy/E. Johnson -- Moala/Mookie -- DrawDE - Whittington/Berry -- Freeney/Mathis - 2011 (easily)OLBs --- Morrison/Royal(then Alexander) -- Conner/Wheeler/Sims - 2011MLB -- Barber/Herrod -- Angerer/Brackett - Barber was horrible but Herrod was good but I will say 2011CBs - Burris/Poole -- Powers/Lacey/KT/Rucker - 1998FS - Belser -- Lefeged/Caldwell -- 1998SS - Blackmon -- Bethea -- 2011K -- Vanderjagt -- AV - draw (although if it came to a playoff clutch situation I would go AV)P -- Gardocki -- MacAfee - 2011 although again it's close.KR/PR - Aaron Baily -- Lefeged/Garcon and whomever it doesn't matter -- 1998So the score is1998 - 8 wins2011 - 6 winsEven - 3So, like I said this is how I see it. If there is something I'm missing please say so, a few of these could definitely be debated. But even if you give all the draws to the 2011 team you can see the talent level isn't drastically better than 1998. Perhaps Polian wasn't as good a GM as I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldunclemark Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Do you fire a coach after one bad year?The Eagles didnt fire their coachDoes stability matter?I think JC is technically a proven winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltfaninnewyork Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You bring up an interesting point. Let's look at it. If you disagree with any of my choices just say so.QB - Manning -- Collins/Painter/O--- 1998RB - Faulk -- Addai/Brown/Carter -- 1998WR - Harrison/Greene/Pathon -- Wayne/Garcon/Collie -- drawTE - Dilger/Pollard -- Clark/Tamme/Eldridge -- 1998 (if Clark had been healthy that would have gone to 2011)Tackles - Glenn/Meadows -- AC/Linkenbach -- 1998Guards -- McKinney/Mandarich - Pollack/Reitz -- 1998Center - Leewenburg/Saturday - 2011 but closeDefenseDT -- McCoy/E. Johnson -- Moala/Mookie -- DrawDE - Whittington/Berry -- Freeney/Mathis - 2011 (easily)OLBs --- Morrison/Royal(then Alexander) -- Conner/Wheeler/Sims - 2011MLB -- Barber/Herrod -- Angerer/Brackett - Barber was horrible but Herrod was good but I will say 2011CBs - Burris/Poole -- Powers/Lacey/KT/Rucker - 1998FS - Belser -- Lefeged/Caldwell -- 1998SS - Blackmon -- Bethea -- 2011K -- Vanderjagt -- AV - draw (although if it came to a playoff clutch situation I would go AV)P -- Gardocki -- MacAfee - 2011 although again it's close.KR/PR - Aaron Baily -- Lefeged/Garcon and whomever it doesn't matter -- 1998So the score is1998 - 8 wins2011 - 6 winsEven - 3So, like I said this is how I see it. If there is something I'm missing please say so, a few of these could definitely be debated. But even if you give all the draws to the 2011 team you can see the talent level isn't drastically better than 1998. Perhaps Polian wasn't as good a GM as I thought. Yawn,Debate this than why was infante fired at 3-13 ?You showed me that you can google roster's like nobody's business...sheldon.And yes tobin was a good talent evaluator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldunclemark Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 the Colts didnt quit when the situation was hopeless and they were being ridiculed nationwideSome credit has to go to the head coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeedrinker Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yawn,Debate this than why was infante fired at 3-13 ?Ahh, I see some things never change. You claimed the 2011 was vastly more talented than the 1998 team. Can you back that up now or are you just going to flap your gums in the wind?You showed me that you can google stats like nobody's business... Also I did post any stats, just the starters from 1998 and 2011.sheldon.Well, I usually don't refer to myself as a genius, but I am glad when I am recognized as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltfaninnewyork Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ahh, I see some things never change. You claimed the 2011 was vastly more talented than the 1998 team. Can you back that up now or are you just going to flap your gums in the wind?Also I did post any stats, just the starters from 1998 and 2011.Well, I usually don't refer to myself as a genius, but I am glad when I am recognized as such.Coffee lighten up my man try decaf,life is to short.You got me i did no research it was done on memory.I have lost many brain cells to partying,not proud just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftShoe Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Now lets add his great college coaching record as well now. This makes his record 52 Wins and 85 losses. That's a great Head Coach resume. He had 1 winning season as a college Head Coach. I find it really, really hard to believe this is the best the Colts can find. College Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Wake Forest Demon Deacons (Atlantic Coast Conference) (1993–2000) 1993 Wake Forest 2–9 1–7 9th 1994 Wake Forest 3–8 1–7 8th 1995 Wake Forest 1–10 0–8 9th 1996 Wake Forest 3–8 1–7 8th 1997 Wake Forest 5–6 3–5 7th 1998 Wake Forest 3–8 2–6 7th 1999 Wake Forest 7–5 3–5 5th W Aloha 2000 Wake Forest 2–9 1–7 8th Wake Forest: 26–63 12–52 Total: 26–63 NFL Team Year Regular Season Post Season Won Lost Ties Win % Finish Won Lost Win % Result IND 2009 14 2 0 .875 1st in AFC South 2 1 .667 Lost to New Orleans Saints in Super Bowl XLIV IND 2010 10 6 0 .625 1st in AFC South 0 1 .000 Lost to New York Jets in AFC Wild-Card Game IND 2011 2 14 0 .125 4th in AFC South — — — — IND Total 26 22 0 .542 2 2 .500 Total 26 22 0 .542 2 2 .500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeedrinker Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Coffee lighten up my man try decaf,life is to short. You got me i did no research it was done on memory.I have lost many brain cells to partying,not proud just saying.Oh come on... the last line wasn't enough to show you I wasn't taking anything too seriously?Although I did mean it in the original post, I thought it was an interesting thing to discuss. Not as an "I am right, you are wrong," type discussion but an actual discussion about which team had more talent. While I think, without injuries to every one not named Manning, the 2011 team may have been more talented the injuries really dropped the talent level down a lot more than I was expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeedrinker Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Now lets add his great college coaching record as well now. This makes his record 52 Wins and 85 losses. That's a great Head Coach resume. He had 1 winning season as a college Head Coach. I find it really, really hard to believe this is the best the Colts can find. College Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs Wake Forest Demon Deacons (Atlantic Coast Conference) (1993–2000) 1993 Wake Forest 2–9 1–7 9th 1994 Wake Forest 3–8 1–7 8th 1995 Wake Forest 1–10 0–8 9th 1996 Wake Forest 3–8 1–7 8th 1997 Wake Forest 5–6 3–5 7th 1998 Wake Forest 3–8 2–6 7th 1999 Wake Forest 7–5 3–5 5th W Aloha 2000 Wake Forest 2–9 1–7 8th Wake Forest: 26–63 12–52 Total: 26–63 NFL Team Year Regular Season Post Season Won Lost Ties Win % Finish Won Lost Win % Result IND 2009 14 2 0 .875 1st in AFC South 2 1 .667 Lost to New Orleans Saints in Super Bowl XLIV IND 2010 10 6 0 .625 1st in AFC South 0 1 .000 Lost to New York Jets in AFC Wild-Card Game IND 2011 2 14 0 .125 4th in AFC South — — — — IND Total 26 22 0 .542 2 2 .500 Total 26 22 0 .542 2 2 .500It's really ridiculous to add his college coaching. After that he served under Dungy for 10 years to learn how to be a better coach. If I go back and look at construction documents I produced my first couple of years as a design engineer, I wonder how any of the buildings I designed actually function and how I was able to move up in the company and become a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horse Shoe Heaven Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You bring up an interesting point. Let's look at it. If you disagree with any of my choices just say so.QB - Manning -- Collins/Painter/O--- 1998RB - Faulk -- Addai/Brown/Carter -- 1998WR - Harrison/Greene/Pathon -- Wayne/Garcon/Collie -- drawTE - Dilger/Pollard -- Clark/Tamme/Eldridge -- 1998 (if Clark had been healthy that would have gone to 2011)Tackles - Glenn/Meadows -- AC/Linkenbach -- 1998Guards -- McKinney/Mandarich - Pollack/Reitz -- 1998Center - Leewenburg/Saturday - 2011 but closeDefenseDT -- McCoy/E. Johnson -- Moala/Mookie -- DrawDE - Whittington/Berry -- Freeney/Mathis - 2011 (easily)OLBs --- Morrison/Royal(then Alexander) -- Conner/Wheeler/Sims - 2011MLB -- Barber/Herrod -- Angerer/Brackett - Barber was horrible but Herrod was good but I will say 2011CBs - Burris/Poole -- Powers/Lacey/KT/Rucker - 1998FS - Belser -- Lefeged/Caldwell -- 1998SS - Blackmon -- Bethea -- 2011K -- Vanderjagt -- AV - draw (although if it came to a playoff clutch situation I would go AV)P -- Gardocki -- MacAfee - 2011 although again it's close.KR/PR - Aaron Baily -- Lefeged/Garcon and whomever it doesn't matter -- 1998So the score is1998 - 8 wins2011 - 6 winsEven - 3So, like I said this is how I see it. If there is something I'm missing please say so, a few of these could definitely be debated. But even if you give all the draws to the 2011 team you can see the talent level isn't drastically better than 1998. Perhaps Polian wasn't as good a GM as I thought.I would say the 98 DT class was MUCH better than 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftShoe Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Guess what in case you have not noticed his winning percentage keeps going down every year, he is not getting any better. He sucks as a head coach period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltfaninnewyork Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Oh come on... the last line wasn't enough to show you I wasn't taking anything too seriously?Although I did mean it in the original post, I thought it was an interesting thing to discuss. Not as an "I am right, you are wrong," type discussion but an actual discussion about which team had more talent. While I think, without injuries to every one not named Manning, the 2011 team may have been more talented the injuries really dropped the talent level down a lot more than I was expecting.No question the injuries were devastating not just the obvious,peyton.I thought brackett was huge he is in someway's the peyton of the d.Angerer really played well but gary is a emotional leader on that d and he was missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltfaninnewyork Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's really ridiculous to add his college coaching. After that he served under Dungy for 10 years to learn how to be a better coach. If I go back and look at construction documents I produced my first couple of years as a design engineer, I wonder how any of the buildings I designed actually function and how I was able to move up in the company and become a manager.Yes, wake forest was a lousy football school hard to get on caldwell for that.Nobody has or can win there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeedrinker Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I would say the 98 DT class was MUCH better than 2011It's hard to tell because of different roles. E. Johnson was excellent but McCoy was below mediocre with the Colts But a case could certianly be made to give the DT edge to 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horse Shoe Heaven Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's hard to tell because of different roles. E. Johnson was excellent but McCoy was below mediocre with the Colts But a case could certianly be made to give the DT edge to 1998.McCoy was better I think than below mediocre. I think he may have even lasted longer than Johnson here, because of a scheme change. I liked both, McCoy was a very good pass rusher as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JColts72 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Irsay tricked us all with that false line of still evalauting Caldwell- If JC was not fired Black Monday, it was never going to happen. WHAT A SHAM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Whoops. (Duplicated another poster) Edited January 17, 2012 by MAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes, wake forest was a lousy football school hard to get on caldwell for that.Nobody has or can win there.So the winning season with a win over Arizona State in the Aloha Bowl should be considered pretty impressive I would think. Incredibly rare event in Wake Forest's long history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUVTHESHOE Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Irsay tricked us all with that false line of still evalauting Caldwell- If JC was not fired Black Monday, it was never going to happen. WHAT A SHAM!Indeed, we were duped as I said earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Guess what in case you have not noticed his winning percentage keeps going down every year, he is not getting any better. He sucks as a head coach period.This isn't exactly the most complex evaluation I've ever seen. You are aware of the injury situation the past two years I hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitto Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sad day that caldwell is actually kept, but as long as the colts win games this upcoming season i dont care... im just hoping irsay makes up for it by making some big moves this offseason to get that bitter taste of caldwell out of everyones mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shecolt Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 14,10,2-Thats 26 (not 28 wins)Shouldn't that be 16, 10, 2 which does equal 28. Or aren't we counting playoff wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buccolts Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Irsay tricked us all with that false line of still evalauting Caldwell- If JC was not fired Black Monday, it was never going to happen. WHAT A SHAM!By any chance do you hang around street corners yelling how the world is coming to an end?I'm beginning to think I know you from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well, it looks like I was incorrect about it happening today. Oh well. I felt like it was going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JColts72 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah u look like that movie person from Clockwork Orange- U have a high opinion og JC that's fer sure- That's right, I'm only Colt fan who wants JC out- When he puts up a stinker with the right pieces in place, should that occur, don't write 1 post of what a bad coach he is, fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's hard to tell because of different roles. E. Johnson was excellent but McCoy was below mediocre with the Colts But a case could certianly be made to give the DT edge to 1998.I think if Eric Foster and Drake Nevis had stayed healthy, they would have surpassed the 98 line. Straight up?.....98 wins against the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeedrinker Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 McCoy was better I think than below mediocre. I think he may have even lasted longer than Johnson here, because of a scheme change. I liked both, McCoy was a very good pass rusher as I recall.Okay, I will take your word for it. It's not fair to McCoy because the thing I think of every time I think about McCoy is a play where he got blown up by the guard and got pushed all the back into Mike Barber. The biggest reason why I remember that play is because Barber never moved. He never took a step back in pass protection, he never took a step forward to support the run. In the 1 to 2 seconds it took the guard to push McCoy about 5 yards, Barber just stood there as everything was going on around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeedrinker Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think if Eric Foster and Drake Nevis had stayed healthy, they would have surpassed the 98 line. Straight up?.....98 wins against the run.I am not a Foster fan so adding him to the list would not have change my view one way or the other. Nevis on the other hand, yeah, had he stayed healthy it could have pushed the 2011 over 1998.That is why I have mixed feelings about letter Chris Polian go. 2011, with AC, Ijalana, Nevis and Carter, all possible starters in 2012 could prove to be the best draft the Colts had in years. Then add to that Chris Rucker showed enough skill where it's not out of the question that he is a starter in 2012 as well. If that's not hitting the draft out of the park, I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I am not a Foster fan so adding him to the list would not have change my view one way or the other. Nevis on the other hand, yeah, had he stayed healthy it could have pushed the 2011 over 1998.That is why I have mixed feelings about letter Chris Polian go. 2011, with AC, Ijalana, Nevis and Carter, all possible starters in 2012 could prove to be the best draft the Colts had in years. Then add to that Chris Rucker showed enough skill where it's not out of the question that he is a starter in 2012 as well. If that's not hitting the draft out of the park, I don't know what is.Plus....Watch out for Rucker in his year two jump. I agree about the CP thing. But...if the two had to be a package, I vote for a new slant in the future. I dont think dad would ever keep his voice out of his sons ear. Got an older brother like that, he just cant help controlling....its in his nature. It needs to be done right, and he knows best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 McCoy was better I think than below mediocre. I think he may have even lasted longer than Johnson here, because of a scheme change. I liked both, McCoy was a very good pass rusher as I recall.One of the twin Tony's. He was stout against the run. His challenge was his height. He couldn't clog the passing lanes with his hands that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number28 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This new joke of a GM we have is Mr. Irsay's puppet. No credit, no name, a true pedestrian like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGugly Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I am not a Foster fan so adding him to the list would not have change my view one way or the other. Nevis on the other hand, yeah, had he stayed healthy it could have pushed the 2011 over 1998.That is why I have mixed feelings about letter Chris Polian go. 2011, with AC, Ijalana, Nevis and Carter, all possible starters in 2012 could prove to be the best draft the Colts had in years. Then add to that Chris Rucker showed enough skill where it's not out of the question that he is a starter in 2012 as well. If that's not hitting the draft out of the park, I don't know what is.Dead Nuts on the money. It had to be his lack of ability to get along with SOMEBODY that mattered. Maybe the QB situation was hung on the Polians. Who knows. But his drafts were pretty good for the most part.And didn't he draft Reitz, who will prolly start at LG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JColts72 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 New GM is Irsay's * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NagelHausForge Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 From what I have read from different sources (ESPN, Indy Star, etc) Chris Polian was a bully who did not like people voicing their opinions if they did not agree with him. If you look at the amount of the personnel department that had either quit or been let go since he was named GM it has been some of the Colts most experienced draft scouts. Many of them cited personality conflicts with Chris Polian as the reason they left or were let go. Someone like that does not make a good GM. Regardless of one good draft!I was not a fan if CP at all. I always got the impression that he had this huge chip on his shoulder because he is a Polian and could do no wrong. Im glad he is gone. I like this new guy from what I have read about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horse Shoe Heaven Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 From what I have read from different sources (ESPN, Indy Star, etc) Chris Polian was a bully who did not like people voicing their opinions if they did not agree with him. If you look at the amount of the personnel department that had either quit or been let go since he was named GM it has been some of the Colts most experienced draft scouts. Many of them cited personality conflicts with Chris Polian as the reason they left or were let go. Someone like that does not make a good GM. Regardless of one good draft!I was not a fan if CP at all. I always got the impression that he had this huge chip on his shoulder because he is a Polian and could do no wrong. Im glad he is gone. I like this new guy from what I have read about him.I don't know about his personalty, & if he did act that way shame on him. Being an arrogant butt to people doesn't make you better, or smarter!! It just makes you an butt!! I don't know him but saw an interview post firing & he seemed fine. I do think the 1 draft he controlled will turn out well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoaf27 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Per Jim Irsay's Twitter account:"Go to http://www.colts.com for upcoming breaking news..."Posted 3 minutes ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsPacersfan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Just got an Wishtv breaking news alert that Caldwell has been released on my I pad. OMG I hope its true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatMcAfeeFan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Jim Caldwell was fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireJimCaldwell Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 wow.. it actually is breaking news... and good news at that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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