Colts will rely on the draft instead of being big free-agent spenders

[throwing BBZ]

Grigson and his Mentor HAVE sucked, in General.
 Wasted #1`s  A huge amount of FA $$$ for players that WERE SUPPOSED to still be here

 and be ___ kickers!!!
 We could use 2-3 O-Lineman - and depth
 Who have we drafted and developed on D after 4 drafts? 3 Rookies last season...???
  Any solid RB`s? 1 yr out of Ballard then...

 It really isn`t pretty.
  We should get 4 promising players in this draft for sure, so try not to______

    And there should be FA$ to sign 2 Quality players for sure, and probably 3.
 Get it done!

  The ONLY thing taking the stench off these last few years has been the Cakewalk

  in the AFC South. Those days are GONE Jimbo!!
    Well, beatin' that old rag armed QB a few times was a Blast. That Mathis strip sack was for All-Time!!

[Carlos Danger]

We will spend the available cap, for the most part. It's not as much as we've had to spend on FA in the last couple years, so we won't be bringing in as many players as we did.

Hopefully there is more emphasis on younger FA talent, but it's not like we are going to just leave $$ on the table..

 

I expect that we will add at least 10-15 mil. worth of FA cap hits next year, not counting the in-house guys we will have to sign. 

[krunk]

I'm cool if Freeman walks.  I want to see more of Sio Moore  and whoever else we play next to him if we get rid of Dqwell.  Not sure where Nate Irving stands in the mix.  I didn't feel that great about his coverage ability, but again I didn't get to see enough snaps since he wasn't fully back from the knee injury.

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

 

Yes we will need them but not so many of them.  They'll probably lay more scrutiny into whomever they bring in.

 

right....I was just clarifying that they would bring in less FAs because less would be needed as they build more talent through the draft, not because Irsay mandated that there be less FA signings

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, MTC said:

Irsay hinted he wants to draft mostly all defense. Jalen Ramsey, Mackensie Alexander, or Jaylon Smith for first round please. 

If Smith falls because of his injury I hope the Colts grab him.  While he might not help right away they would get a top five talent and he would be able to step on for Mathis the following year.

[Patagonia Chris]

6 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Except for Gore, none of the older vets were worth their contracts if I'm not mistaken.  I think that Irsay is saying we need to be smarter in Free Agency. 

 

All I know is that we better address the O line, somehow.  And not with old vets or 5th round picks.  Guys were available last year that could have started day one (like Cognito), but we went with a guy who didn't even finish the season on the team.  Can't fail like that again.

 

 

The best FA signing of the bunch was probably Kendall Langford. When you look at the FA signings that Grigson has completed over his tenure with the Colts, Walden, Langford, Adams and Ahmad Bradshaw to an extent have been his better acquisitions. What I'm saying is, hitting singles and doubles, to use a baseball term, have worked out a lot better than his homerun swings. So maybe Irsay pulling him back in a little bit and forcing him to focus on the areas where he excels is a pretty good long term move.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, ztboiler said:

I think he is differentiating the approach we used in 15 from the approach they will use moving forward moreso than 13 or 14.  

 

Our free agent spending in 13 and 14 is so grossly overstated on this board and in the media that it has simply become an uninformed narrative.

 

Prior to 15 we have signed exactly zero UFAs who's contracts exceeded 7M per year...by my recall.  In 15 we "splurged" with AJ and Cole who approached 8M per on pay as you go deals.  Neither of which will be here in 16 nor did they damage the cap.

 

They will make different choices on the same conservative free agent philosophy they've always had....because the roster needs are much different now.

 

The biggest change may be draft related in holding 1st round pick usage to a higher standard.

 

Irsay mentioned the cap room in '13-'15. But like you said, he mentioned '15 as being a little different. They obviously splurged on some of those vets in '15. 

 

To me, the primary difference in cap management is that the QB is now being paid like a veteran QB (fifth year option is $16m, and an extension is on the way). Irsay said he wants to get Luck's contract done, and structure it in a way that it can be adjusted in future seasons, if necessary. I don't think there's anything particularly enlightening about any of that. They obviously won't do a Flacco-type structure, but that was never really on the table to begin with. Luck will get the kind of contract we've all be anticipating he'll get.

 

Other than that, everything else is the same. The veterans have contracts with balanced, team friendly structures, and the team has cap flexibility. They can still roll into each year with $20-30m in cap space, which is enough to keep your own, and maybe add a FA or two. AC and Hilton are already under contract, there are four or five noteworthy guys from this FA class that the team probably wants to keep -- Fleener, Allen, Freeman, AV... maybe Hasselbeck and Lowery... and then some lower tier guys like Winn, Doyle, etc. None of them are cap busters, and all of them can be had on team friendly deals.

 

Unless a star emerges, next year's free agent class is basically worthless. Werner, Thornton and Holmes are the only remaining draftees from 2013, and those guys might not make it to the final 53. Some younger guys might be relevant -- Sio Moore, Josh Freeman, etc., but those aren't likely to be foundational pieces. Everyone else is an older vet who probably won't be retained -- Mathis, Adams, Butler, Walden, Cole, etc. 

 

So, as you alluded to, I don't see a lot on the horizon that will change the team's ability to roll into each offseason with good cap standing. The cap will continue to increase; the NFL just added an additional $150m in TV revenue with the Thursday night package, and increased revenue from the LA team(s) will help (I believe a portion of the $550m relocation fee is considered football related revenue).

 

I agree that first rounders will be a point of emphasis moving forward. I'm not sure I'd say they'll hold them to a higher standard, but I think they recognize that they need to get more out of them, and probably won't be trading them away any time soon.

 

I see 2014 as the model. Aside from not having a first rounder, the draft went reasonably well. The free agent class was limited, but addressed obvious needs (with mixed results). They kept their own free agents for the most part, letting a couple walk. And they rolled into the season with a $15m overage in cap room (if I remember correctly). Aside from the big overage, I don't see why it would be that much different moving forward.

 

Lastly, I agree implicitly with the bolded. That free agent class didn't work out as well as hoped, and there were some obvious mistakes, but it wasn't some irresponsible and unconscious spending spree, nor did it signal a departure from the 'build through the draft' philosophy that everyone in the Colts front office has preached since Day 1. Those free agents were meant to be a boost, and in many ways, they were. 

[pgt_rob]

I dont know why Irsay would have to state the obvious about relying on the draft to build the team. That's a no brainer.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, Pagano's Realtor said:

 

The best FA signing of the bunch was probably Kendall Langford. When you look at the FA signings that Grigson has completed over his tenure with the Colts, Walden, Langford, Adams and Ahmad Bradshaw to an extent have been his better acquisitions. What I'm saying is, hitting singles and doubles, to use a baseball term, have worked out a lot better than his homerun swings. So maybe Irsay pulling him back in a little bit and forcing him to focus on the areas where he excels is a pretty good long term move.

I think Mike Adams has been their best free agent signing with all due respect to Langford who had a wonderful season.  All Adams has done is lead the league in INTs since he signed here and made the pro-bowl twice. 

[BProland85]

Hopefully they'll not shut out free agency completely, and get a few guys without overpaying who can help. A few guys I like who won't break the bank include...

 

OG Jeff Allen

CB Trumaine Johnson

CB Casey Hayward

OLB Junior Gallette

RB Lamar Miller

[Patagonia Chris]

18 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think Mike Adams has been their best free agent signing with all due respect to Langford who had a wonderful season.  All Adams has done is lead the league in INTs since he signed here and made the pro-bowl twice. 

 

Can't really argue with that. Although he has been an alternate to the Pro Bowl twice, not an original selection, correct?

[BProland85]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

If Smith falls because of his injury I hope the Colts grab him.  While he might not help right away they would get a top five talent and he would be able to step on for Mathis the following year.

 

I think all Colts fans would be thrilled if the Colts landed Jaylon Smith. I view him more as a super athletic ILB who can also pass rush from anywhere. Kind of like Jamie Collins from New England.

 

I really hope the Colts go defensive heavy in the draft, and land a few starters they can build around.

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

Irsay draws a contrast between the last three years and moving forward, so I figure there will be some difference. However, building through the draft with a 'right guy for the right price' free agency approach has been the model all along. The problem is that they haven't maximized their resources in either area.

I agree. I think that this last offseason however you could say we were big players because we also signed a couple big name free agents (Cole, Johnson, and Gore). Many thought we won free agency period in the media. That said we seemed to have a good draft as well with quality contributions deep into our draft. I look for us to continue to try to maximize the draft but still have the right guy (hungry man) approach to signing free agents. People forget that one of our best free agent signings was probably my favorite signing at the time last year....it flew under the radar and I think it fits perfectly the mold of right guy right fit approach. That signing was Kendall Langford...most on here didn't like the signing...he wasn't going to make an impact many said...and boy were they wrong. Another signing that many didn't get fired up a few years ago was Eric Walden and he and a few others have been nice pieces to our team. These guys aren't flashing all over the screen but have been some of our better contributors and I continue to see us go after these level of players to supplement our draft. Whatever we do we have to get younger...I know the coaches liked signing these veteran free agents because they knew how to be professional etc...but they are just going to have to COACH..and to work with these young guys more because our only way forward is to turn some of these young immature bucks into studs.

[krunk]

59 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think Mike Adams has been their best free agent signing with all due respect to Langford who had a wonderful season.  All Adams has done is lead the league in INTs since he signed here and made the pro-bowl twice. 

 

I'm wondering if we retain Adams for another year.  He's getting pretty long in the tooth although still productive.

[Smonroe]

5 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Mike Adams and Matt Hasselbeck are on line one for you. Langford wasn't "older" but was a good pickup.  I happen to like Jackson and thought he has done what he was brought here to do.  People knock him for not being able to cover well but he was never good at that.  Also Redding gave them three solid years at DE.  also while not pick ups but the decisions to keep guys like AV and Reggie when Grigson got here can't be overlooked if we are talking older vets.  

 

So like most things Grigson has done there has been good mixed with bad.  People tend to like to focus on the bad though and over look the good.

 

With that said I agree focusing on the draft is the way to go as long as they hit in the draft.  It's kinda ironic that's what people want to go back to as when Polian was fired one of the things people complained about was how Polian would never go out and get big name free agents (which wasn't true he was just more selective about it).

 

All good points. I tend to forget about the older vets that did work out before last season.  And I give credit to Grigson for making those contracts cap friendly.  AJ, Cole, and Herrimans didn't meet expectations this season.

 

We were laughing this season because if you listen to any of the broadcasts you'd think MH changed his name to "Forty Year Old Matt Hasselbeck".  

 

[jim scheurich]

wow! he must have forgot his quarterback missed most of the season!!

[krunk]

Did he say he wasn't drafting any O linemen?  No

[jim scheurich]

 

just my opinion, but I really think the o-line needs more help than the d-line. hopefully philbin makes a big difference, but I don't think it was all a coaching problem.

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

Did he say he wasn't drafting any O linemen?  No

I don't think he meant that we weren't drafting ANY offensive players...just that we will lean heavily to the defensive side of the ball. Grigson has shown us anything it is that he goes by BPA on his board (despite position) so if an C, RG, RT is sitting there that he has highly rated...he will take them....he has proven this over and over.

[COLTS449]

7 hours ago, Dustin said:

Now we're back to the FA is bad meme. Ask the Broncos how much spending big in FA set them back. 

 

Exactly. We need to build through the draft, yeah. But if we can add 2-3 young, impact free agents it would be ideal. With a couple major free agent signings and a good draft we would be in very good shape next year.

[IrishColt22]

I can see them letting Freeman walk and draft Lb in the draft.

According to Roto:

Colts.com's Kevin Bowen suggests free agent ILB Jerrell Freeman could be allowed to hit the open market.

Owner Jim Irsay has also said he "wants to get younger" on defense. 29-year-old Freeman might be viewed expendable with D’Qwell Jackson, Nate Irving, and Sio Moore under contract. Freeman should be seeking David Harris money (three years, $22M) after finishing as PFF’s No. 2 inside linebacker..

[krunk]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

I don't think he meant that we weren't drafting ANY offensive players...just that we will lean heavily to the defensive side of the ball. Grigson has shown us anything it is that he goes by BPA on his board (despite position) so if an C, RG, RT is sitting there that he has highly rated...he will take them....he has proven this over and over.

 

I was responding to the post right above mine.  Seemed like the guy was trying to insinuate that Irsay shouldn't be so focused on defense, but more on the offensive line.  My reply was "Did Irsay say he wasn't drafting Oline?"  No he never said that.  I'm sure Irsay is well aware of that issue too.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, IrishColt22 said:

I can see them letting Freeman walk and draft Lb in the draft.

According to Roto:

Colts.com's Kevin Bowen suggests free agent ILB Jerrell Freeman could be allowed to hit the open market.

Owner Jim Irsay has also said he "wants to get younger" on defense. 29-year-old Freeman might be viewed expendable with D’Qwell Jackson, Nate Irving, and Sio Moore under contract. Freeman should be seeking David Harris money (three years, $22M) after finishing as PFF’s No. 2 inside linebacker..

 

If Jerrell Freeman asks for David Harris money (3/22) then I feel confident saying Freeman will quickly become a FORMER member of the Indianapolis Colts.....

 

He'll talk his way OUT of a job.

 

I hope he and his agent are smarter than that.  

 

I'd like to see Freeman return,  but not at any price and that price is way too much.

 

 

[gacoop1]

Let Freeman walk and draft younger players.  At his experience and age, he's slowed down, covering players out of backfield was suspect.  There must something special about this Jaylon Smith guy I hear his name mentioned a lot.  I'm on board if he turns out like Von Miller....or better I hope.  But we need to stay focus on building a monster on the defensive side.  Remember folks "Defense win championship....Hope Pagano's buddy "Monachino" will make the difference in "D" like Wade did in Denver.  Imagine first year as a DC and going to0 the Big Dance.  I'm impress Elway.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, krunk said:

 

I was responding to the post right above mine.  Seemed like the guy was trying to insinuate that Irsay shouldn't be so focused on defense, but more on the offensive line.  My reply was "Did Irsay say he wasn't drafting Oline?"  No he never said that.  I'm sure Irsay is well aware of that issue too.

 

It bugs me when people pass along their conjecture as fact. As far as I can tell, Irsay didn't make any matter of fact comments about the draft or free agency that should make anyone think that we won't be drafting an offensive lineman, or that we'll be drafting mostly defense, etc. 

[SDakColts]

7 hours ago, krunk said:

 

I'm wondering if we retain Adams for another year.  He's getting pretty long in the tooth although still productive.

If we do decide to cut ties with Adams do you think the logical choice is to retain Lowery and move Geathers up to the starting lineup. Or would you look at free agency and the draft for more options. I personally wouldn't have a problem moving Geathers up to replace Adams, and I thought Lowery played very good for us last year.

[krunk]

5 hours ago, SDakColts said:

If we do decide to cut ties with Adams do you think the logical choice is to retain Lowery and move Geathers up to the starting lineup. Or would you look at free agency and the draft for more options. I personally wouldn't have a problem moving Geathers up to replace Adams, and I thought Lowery played very good for us last year.

I'm not sure where I'm at yet. I'd have to see more of Geathers as a starter. I have some coverage concerns with him that I need to be more sure about. My mind keeps telling me he's more on the Deone Buchannon side. Just a hybrid linebacker but we shall see. Overall the pair of Adams and Lowery were productive last year so we may just bring them back and make sure we have starter level backups to compete. Now if somebody like Tshaun Gibson is available and wants to come here then I say somebodies got to go. Got to keep adding elite athletes with youth. If we do add Gipson then I would consider drafting an additional safety in the mid to lower rounds to compete at the other spot with Geathers. A guy I took a liking to is the kid Sean Davis out of Maryland. He switched from safety to corner but I project him as a safety in the NFL because he needs some work on his coverage as a cornerback to me although hes pretty able to play press and off man coverage at that spot too with some coaching.He's a nice athlete, nice size and a ruthless tackler. I'm still looking to watch more film of him playing safety in coverage though.

[JColts72]

I guess there are no players over 30 plus in FA that Ryan wants. I would go after Eric Berry, Von Miller though. Need to release Andre Johnson though.

[theanarchist]

22 hours ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

It won't be very popular amongst some of the posters on here as they already have visions of Von Miller and Kelechi Osemele wearing the horseshoe dancing in their heads.....

I still hope we can get an Osemele type player. I knew Miller would never happen. Jim is going to have to realize that elite pass rushers don't grown on trees. Offensive line and Rush LB are the glaring needs at this point. Hopefully with this draft the Colts can find a first round pick who will be a difference maker at one of those positions because that is one thing that has been killing this team. 3 first round picks who have not done anything will eventually kill your roster.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

30 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

I still hope we can get an Osemele type player. I knew Miller would never happen. Jim is going to have to realize that elite pass rushers don't grown on trees. Offensive line and Rush LB are the glaring needs at this point. Hopefully with this draft the Colts can find a first round pick who will be a difference maker at one of those positions because that is one thing that has been killing this team. 3 first round picks who have not done anything will eventually kill your roster.

Of the two I believe Osemele is more realistic....though I can see him going after Tackle money and don't blame him? My guess is that he won't come cheap but definitely cheaper than Miller. Here is a nice breakdown of available FA Offensive Lineman and projected contracts via Overthecap.com:

http://overthecap.com/2016-nfl-free-agency-offensive-line-overview/

Now with the expected raising of the Salary Cap these numbers will possibly be too low? 

 

 I also agree with your point of taking a pass rusher early and developing other young talent in that area.

[ProblChld32]

This is the smartest way to build your team IMO, you get them young. They are therefore locked into a minimal contract for 4-5 years. That frees up alot of cap space. You can maybe grab one or two quality guys via the draft and still be able to sign guys and retain them. A Younger team can grow together create bonds and chemistry and you don't need to necessarily worry about high turnover with guys leaving the organization.I am liking the direction they are taking with this.

[rock8591]

Dorsett will be a force soon. Even Antonio Brown only had 167 yards catching his first season (Dorsett had 225).

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

.I am liking the direction they are taking with this.

 

It's not really a change in direction though.

[ColtRider]

 

A lot of great points in this thread. Draft is the absolute most viable way to build formidable & elite teams. Limited & targeting FAs for an exact fit to your scheme, whatever that may be. Both are an art form. Knowing how to compliment each is the name of the game, obviously. 

 

Defensive sway for the Colts, especially the LB corps, needs to be addressed here along with the OL lack as well. These are most outstanding. I believe Irsay's comments lends credence to that fact. I remember several years ago reading a comment by Brian Billick regarding not only games, but including what it takes to build a great team. (by draft & limited FAs) ...

 

"When you go into the lion's den, you don't tippy-toe in. You carry a spear. You go in screaming like a banshee. You kick whatever doors in, and say, "Where's the S.O. *!" If you go in any other way, you're going to lose."

 

Pretty good advice. 

[GwinnettColt]

I think about four FA's and we should be ok. 2 for OL; one OLB; and a CB....ok and maybe a WR

[ProblChld32]

2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

It's not really a change in direction though.

 

i happen to think it is , guess its all a matter of opinion right? lo 

[SDakColts]

9 hours ago, krunk said:

I'm not sure where I'm at yet. I'd have to see more of Geathers as a starter. I have some coverage concerns with him that I need to be more sure about. My mind keeps telling me he's more on the Deone Buchannon side. Just a hybrid linebacker but we shall see. Overall the pair of Adams and Lowery were productive last year so we may just bring them back and make sure we have starter level backups to compete. Now if somebody like Tshaun Gibson is available and wants to come here then I say somebodies got to go. Got to keep adding elite athletes with youth. If we do add Gipson then I would consider drafting an additional safety in the mid to lower rounds to compete at the other spot with Geathers. A guy I took a liking to is the kid Sean Davis out of Maryland. He switched from safety to corner but I project him as a safety in the NFL because he needs some work on his coverage as a cornerback to me although hes pretty able to play press and off man coverage at that spot too with some coaching.He's a nice athlete, nice size and a ruthless tackler. I'm still looking to watch more film of him playing safety in coverage though.

I am a big fan of Justin Simmons the S from Boston College. I believe he would be a perfect fit in our defensive scheme and we could probably pick him up later in the draft. I have no problem with Sean Davis either, but Simmons is a sleeper in this years draft and personal favorite of mine. I agree that Geathers would be better as a hybrid linebacker, but I think he would be an adequate starter at SS.

[krunk]

13 minutes ago, SDakColts said:

I am a big fan of Justin Simmons the S from Boston College. I believe he would be a perfect fit in our defensive scheme and we could probably pick him up later in the draft. I have no problem with Sean Davis either, but Simmons is a sleeper in this years draft and personal favorite of mine. I agree that Geathers would be better as a hybrid linebacker, but I think he would be an adequate starter at SS.

 

I'll take a look at Simmons.  Nice size

[krunk]

4 hours ago, SDakColts said:

I am a big fan of Justin Simmons the S from Boston College. I believe he would be a perfect fit in our defensive scheme and we could probably pick him up later in the draft. I have no problem with Sean Davis either, but Simmons is a sleeper in this years draft and personal favorite of mine. I agree that Geathers would be better as a hybrid linebacker, but I think he would be an adequate starter at SS.

I went back and watched Simmons. Pretty nice player and I think you could add even more muscle to that frame. Seemed to be a more than willing tackler and a wrap up tackler at that. Not bad in coverage either. Kinda reminds me of Deion Grant that used to play for Carolina. Has a little bit of Berry in there too.

[Defjamz26]

I also think this means to expect more first year starters as well. 

 

If if you want to get younger you're going to have to have more young starters as well.