Scouting notes -- Ohio State WR, Braxton Miller

[Superman]

Fun player to watch, and the Colts met with him at the Senior Bowl. He was asked what he said to the Colts, and he responded: "Do they need a playmaker? Let's go!" I like him. Converted QB, obviously, with plenty of arm talent, and as such is a potential gadget player. OSU played him at slot / H-back, and he took a few direct snaps, but surprisingly only had 1 pass attempt last season. Had some injuries during his career, including 2015 at receiver. Fifth year senior, and will be 24 a month after the draft. Gonna try to be brief on this one.

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/braxton-miller/

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/braxton-miller-1.html

 

Size: Measured at the Senior Bowl at 6'1" 3/8ths, 204 pounds, and 9 1/8 inch hands. Good size for a receiver, good build, sleek, muscled. 4/5

 

Athleticism: Not a super athlete, but plenty athletic. He has a strong 5th gear, maybe not a great 6th gear where he'll just run past everyone. Ran track in HS, and will probably run well at the Combine. Very quick, good change of direction, gets to top speed quickly, blows out of breaks, and he tries to run every route at full speed. Will put pressure on defenses, and usually draws attention against zone coverage. No evidence of leaping ability that I've seen. I would classify him as a quick twitch athlete. 7/10

 

Hands: Good hands, extends from body to snatch the ball (on display this week at the Senior Bowl practices), can pluck it out of the air before it hits the ground, no drops from the film I've seen. 9/10

 

Routes: Still developing as a route runner. I mentioned before he tries to run everything at full speed, and as such he doesn't sell his moves as well as he should. Sometimes he's out of control and runs right into the turf. Has the ability and feet to set up his routes, technique is there on fundamental routes, body control is good, and he can break in either direction, or get up field. Doesn't stack defenders very well, which is a more advanced technique that he probably just hasn't mastered yet in his limited reps at receiver. 6/10

 

Physicality: Not very physical, can be disrupted off the line by jams and pushed out of bounds. Doesn't back down from a physical challenge, very competitive, but he sometimes reminds you that he's a converted QB. Still battles when the ball is in the air. Not deficient for a receiver, especially one that's spent most of his time in the slot. 5/10

 

Body control / adjustment ability: Still working on tracking the ball while it's in the air, sometimes loses it or struggles to keep his feet under him while he tracks it. Doesn't stack defenders, isn't proficient at staying away from the sideline while running boundary routes. Lots of nuances to running routes and adjusting that he still hasn't shown. He will kick it into gear to get under a deep ball, and he does a good job of using his body to seal when running slants and in/out routes. Comes back well for underthrown balls, and will go down and get it. 6/10

 

Elusiveness: Has some serious moves, stutter steps, spin move, stop and go, etc. Can make defenders miss in the open field, and will shrug off passive tacklers from time to time. 7/10

 

Run blocking: Willing blocker (code for deficient, but not lazy). Can square up and get into a DBs chest, and he's bigger than many of them so he can win one on ones. If he misses, that's probably it. No cut block action, 50/50 on runs his way. About average for a combo receiver. 3/5

 

Overall: 47/70, 67%, 2nd/3rd rounder, he may drop further due to lack of production, injury history and age

 

Scheme fit: 5/5, slot receiver with the size to play outside, and you can use him on some trick plays because he can throw the ball

 

He's lacking in some technique and production, but the ability and room to improve is there. Question is what his ceiling is, and I don't think it's that high. He's not refined, and he's already 24, and has some injuries that make you wonder if he'll be able to stay on the field and get the practice time he needs. Lazy people are going to evoke Terrell Pryor, but he's nothing like him as an athlete or as a citizen. I'd compare him to Stevie Johnson.

[GoDeep]

No.

[SP_21]

Tons of potential and seems to have really put in the work to learn the nuances of being a receiver. Obviously still has a ways to go but I like him a lot. 

[COLTS449]

I think the kid has potential and can be a good receiver, but in absolutely no way should we draft a wide out early. I'm cool with drafting one in the 5th round or on, but not with our first 4 picks. We have to upgrade the defense and OL with those picks.

[Superman]

Just as a disclaimer, my notes aren't to suggest that we should be drafting this player (or any other player). It's just about my general impressions of prospects.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

Fun player to watch, and the Colts met with him at the Senior Bowl. He was asked what he said to the Colts, and he responded: "Do they need a playmaker? Let's go!" I like him. Converted QB, obviously, with plenty of arm talent, and as such is a potential gadget player. OSU played him at slot / H-back, and he took a few direct snaps, but surprisingly only had 1 pass attempt last season. Had some injuries during his career, including 2015 at receiver. Fifth year senior, and will be 24 a month after the draft. Gonna try to be brief on this one.

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/braxton-miller/

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/braxton-miller-1.html

 

Size: Measured at the Senior Bowl at 6'1" 3/8ths, 204 pounds, and 9 1/8 inch hands. Good size for a receiver, good build, sleek, muscled. 4/5

 

Athleticism: Not a super athlete, but plenty athletic. He has a strong 5th gear, maybe not a great 6th gear where he'll just run past everyone. Ran track in HS, and will probably run well at the Combine. Very quick, good change of direction, gets to top speed quickly, blows out of breaks, and he tries to run every route at full speed. Will put pressure on defenses, and usually draws attention against zone coverage. No evidence of leaping ability that I've seen. I would classify him as a quick twitch athlete. 7/10

 

Hands: Good hands, extends from body to snatch the ball (on display this week at the Senior Bowl practices), can pluck it out of the air before it hits the ground, no drops from the film I've seen. 9/10

 

Routes: Still developing as a route runner. I mentioned before he tries to run everything at full speed, and as such he doesn't sell his moves as well as he should. Sometimes he's out of control and runs right into the turf. Has the ability and feet to set up his routes, technique is there on fundamental routes, body control is good, and he can break in either direction, or get up field. Doesn't stack defenders very well, which is a more advanced technique that he probably just hasn't mastered yet in his limited reps at receiver. 6/10

 

Physicality: Not very physical, can be disrupted off the line by jams and pushed out of bounds. Doesn't back down from a physical challenge, very competitive, but he sometimes reminds you that he's a converted QB. Still battles when the ball is in the air. Not deficient for a receiver, especially one that's spent most of his time in the slot. 5/10

 

Body control / adjustment ability: Still working on tracking the ball while it's in the air, sometimes loses it or struggles to keep his feet under him while he tracks it. Doesn't stack defenders, isn't proficient at staying away from the sideline while running boundary routes. Lots of nuances to running routes and adjusting that he still hasn't shown. He will kick it into gear to get under a deep ball, and he does a good job of using his body to seal when running slants and in/out routes. Comes back well for underthrown balls, and will go down and get it. 6/10

 

Elusiveness: Has some serious moves, stutter steps, spin move, stop and go, etc. Can make defenders miss in the open field, and will shrug off passive tacklers from time to time. 7/10

 

Run blocking: Willing blocker (code for deficient, but not lazy). Can square up and get into a DBs chest, and he's bigger than many of them so he can win one on ones. If he misses, that's probably it. No cut block action, 50/50 on runs his way. About average for a combo receiver. 3/5

 

Overall: 47/70, 67%, 2nd/3rd rounder, he may drop further due to lack of production, injury history and age

 

Scheme fit: 5/5, slot receiver with the size to play outside, and you can use him on some trick plays because he can throw the ball

 

He's lacking in some technique and production, but the ability and room to improve is there. Question is what his ceiling is, and I don't think it's that high. He's not refined, and he's already 24, and has some injuries that make you wonder if he'll be able to stay on the field and get the practice time he needs. Lazy people are going to evoke Terrell Pryor, but he's nothing like him as an athlete or as a citizen. I'd compare him to Stevie Johnson.

 

Interesting write-up....

 

But I confess I'm surprised you're not more excited by him....    the write-ups I've read are really good and seem to imply lots of upside because Miller is still so new to the position.    Scouts seem to be very impressed by what he did in his limited time as a WR.    They appear to think that he's got much better days ahead.

 

If it weren't for our recent heavy investment in WR's he'd be on my radar as someone we should consider.

 

But all things being equal,  my desire remains to build the defense and the o-line.    

 

As a footnote,  I seem to be interested in quite a number of Ohio State players.    Decker,  Apple,  Washington,  some linebackers....    lots of serious talent on this Buckeye team!

 

 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Interesting write-up....

 

But I confess I'm surprised you're not more excited by him....    the write-ups I've read are really good and seem to imply lots of upside because Miller is still so new to the position.    Scouts seem to be very impressed by what he did in his limited time as a WR.    They appear to think that he's got much better days ahead.

 

If it weren't for our recent heavy investment in WR's he'd be on my radar as someone we should consider.

 

But all things being equal,  my desire remains to build the defense and the o-line.    

 

As a footnote,  I seem to be interested in quite a number of Ohio State players.    Decker,  Apple,  Washington,  some linebackers....    lots of serious talent on this Buckeye team!

 

The Buckeyes have lots of good players, obviously. 

 

I like Miller. But when you take a raw player, you generally expect him to be younger, especially at WR. Moncrief was 20 when we drafted him, didn't turn 21 until August. Miller will be 24 by his first minicamp. It's possible he's already at or near his physical peak. He'll be a 28 year old free agent.

 

He has very little production at receiver, obviously due to circumstances (position switch, plays WR3 for a run heavy offense with limited QBs, injury), but that is a consideration. I want to see proof of concept if I'm going to invest a high pick in a receiver with limited experience.

 

He's not a highly explosive athlete. He has no physical traits that jump off the screen -- blazing speed, exceptional quickness, ability to high point the ball, etc. He's not lacking in any of those; I think he's a plus athlete and will test well, but he's also not going to just blow NFL competition out of the water. In order for him to succeed, he'll have to play with excellent technique, mastering the subtleties of the position, and he hasn't come close to doing that. I favor technically proficient receivers anyways, and while I don't doubt he can improve, I wonder what his ceiling really is.

 

I know you're not necessarily arguing about his tape or any of his traits, just making an observation. Truth be told, I like him and would like to have him -- he's a quick twitch receiver with good hands who competes his butt off. I just think he's a third round kind of guy.

 

If Grigson works some magic and we wind up with some extra picks in between 75-100, I'd be okay with using one on him. If I were the Niners or the Browns, he probably wouldn't make it to 75, I'd be snagging him with an early third rounder.

[SDakColts]

I personally like Miller as a prospect. He seems like a plus athlete and a premium playmaker. He is the type of player where you can line him up almost anywhere and he can be dangerous.

 

There are a couple problems though with his game that make him somewhat unappealing at the same time. Like Superman eluded to. He is going to be an older draftee being a fifth year senior. I am not saying that is a huge knock against him, but it should be noted. Many college QBs have attempted the swap from QB to WR in the NFL. Unlike most converts he already has a year of development working as a slot receiver so that is a plus.

 

Now the major issue with me is that he doesn't play outside. While that may not be an issue with the right coaching, it is a hurdle he would have to overcome in the NFL. Miller has plenty of experience beating nickel corners, linebackers and safeties, but he has very little experience playing outside against much bigger, faster, and more physical CBs at the line of scrimmage. He will have to continue to develop his release off the line and his route running to be a consistently reliable receiver in the NFL.

 

In the end I believe he has the size and skill set to play both outside and in the slot in the NFL. With the right coaching I believe he could be a consistent threat wherever he lines up on the field due to his natural playmaking abilities. He reminds me a lot of the Packers WR Randall Cobb.

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, GoDeep said:

No.

No?  I don't think it was suggested that we draft him in an early round so why do you say no?

[GoDeep]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

No?  I don't think it was suggested that we draft him in an early round so why do you say no?

I think we need to Draft D, Oline and maybe RB ONLY.

[Superman]

vine.co/v/i57mgBXFWiw

 

Excuse the language at the end of the video. 

 

This shows feet, hands, quickness, and competitiveness. 

[our_dbs_rock]

Can he return kicks?

[BleedBlu8792]

Antwaan Randal-El...

 

If you are a team with a diverse playbook - a good handful of trick plays (Haley/Arians etc..) - Brax can really turn that Sunday match-up into a nightmare. I was really hoping Ohio State would go this route a little more with Brax playing WR, but Warinner - Ohio States new OC for this past year - didn't really get Brax involved like that. I think had Herriman still been OC - now UofHouston's HC - Brax would have been the guy jumping out at people on film because Herriman is a little more risky with his playcalling, plus he knew what kind of playmaker Brax was.

 

I'd take him in the 3rd. He would be one heckuva weapon and another wrinkle in the playbook that most teams would overlook. I think within a season or two he could be a decently polished receiver. Nothing great but definitely good. On top of that, you sort of have a fill in for #3 QB.

[BleedBlu8792]

7 minutes ago, our_dbs_rock said:

Can he return kicks?

 

Yes, there was an article on him impressing on kick/punt returns. He never did it at Ohio State, so it looks like he's showing teams that he's willing to do whatever to help. Again, right back to my Antwaan Randel El comparison..

[PeterBowman]

Guess he's been tearing it up at  Senior Bowl practices too.

[our_dbs_rock]

10 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Yes, there was an article on him impressing on kick/punt returns. He never did it at Ohio State, so it looks like he's showing teams that he's willing to do whatever to help. Again, right back to my Antwaan Randel El comparison..

 

If he can be a game changer on special teams, it might be worth taking him if he is there in the 3rd even though it is not a position of need.  I'm pretty sure Luck is tired of starting on the 15 all the time.

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

Antwaan Randal-El...

 

If you are a team with a diverse playbook - a good handful of trick plays (Haley/Arians etc..) - Brax can really turn that Sunday match-up into a nightmare. I was really hoping Ohio State would go this route a little more with Brax playing WR, but Warinner - Ohio States new OC for this past year - didn't really get Brax involved like that. I think had Herriman still been OC - now UofHouston's HC - Brax would have been the guy jumping out at people on film because Herriman is a little more risky with his playcalling, plus he knew what kind of playmaker Brax was.

 

I'd take him in the 3rd. He would be one heckuva weapon and another wrinkle in the playbook that most teams would overlook. I think within a season or two he could be a decently polished receiver. Nothing great but definitely good. On top of that, you sort of have a fill in for #3 QB.

 

The Colts don't pick until roughly 80th or so in the 3rd....

 

I'm not sure I see Miller lasting until the middle of that round.     I think he'll go in the 2nd,  but if he does reach the 3rd I'm not sure I see him lasting another 18 or so picks....

 

Just thinking out loud.....    

[General_Hux]

If he's still out there in the 5th round or later, he could be an interesting prospect.  But we have so many dire needs that we don't really have the luxury of picking interesting prospects.  Tough call, but if he's there in a late round and we've gotten what we want out of the early rounds, I wouldn't hate the pick. 

[BleedBlu8792]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The Colts don't pick until roughly 80th or so in the 3rd....

 

I'm not sure I see Miller lasting until the middle of that round.     I think he'll go in the 2nd,  but if he does reach the 3rd I'm not sure I see him lasting another 18 or so picks....

 

Just thinking out loud.....

 

I don't see how he is a top-64 player, especially considering the guy just started playing receiver last year and with such a small sample size at that. He's still an unfinished product. He never played WR in highschool either that I'm aware of. Sure, a team could take a risk on him that early, but I'm pretty sure there will be more NFL ready receivers at that point than taking Brax. Like Sup said, with him being 24 and probably approaching his peak physically, I'm not sure a team is going to invest him that early without a surefire return.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

I don't see how he is a top-64 player, especially considering the guy just started playing receiver last year and with such a small sample size at that. He's still an unfinished product. He never played WR in highschool either that I'm aware of. Sure, a team could take a risk on him that early, but I'm pretty sure there will be more NFL ready receivers at that point than taking Brax. Like Sup said, with him being 24 and probably approaching his peak physically, I'm not sure a team is going to invest him that early without a surefire return.

 

 

ESPN has two stories out today about the senior bowl.     

 

In one,  Miller is listed as one of the five players who helped themselves the most.

 

And in this one,  he's listed as one of the top-20 players at the game.      Here's his write-up.

 

In a nutshell,  the guy has been turning heads.     I'm not saying first round,  but I've seen him on top-50 lists before the senior bowl.      And now that it's after the senior bowl,  that's looking better and better.

 

 

11. Braxton Miller, WR/RS, Ohio State: Miller spent the better part of the week turning defensive backs around with incredible route-running, while also dazzling in individual agility drills. He was the best pure athlete on the field all week -- and he looked natural catching the ball, considering he's just a year removed from playing quarterback.

[BleedBlu8792]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

ESPN has two stories out today about the senior bowl.    

 

In one,  Miller is listed as one of the five players who helped themselves the most.

 

And in this one,  he's listed as one of the top-20 players at the game.      Here's his write-up.

 

In a nutshell,  the guy has been turning heads.     I'm not saying first round,  but I've seen him on top-50 lists before the senior bowl.      And now that it's after the senior bowl,  that's looking better and better.

 

 

11. Braxton Miller, WR/RS, Ohio State: Miller spent the better part of the week turning defensive backs around with incredible route-running, while also dazzling in individual agility drills. He was the best pure athlete on the field all week -- and he looked natural catching the ball, considering he's just a year removed from playing quarterback.

 

Where? I'm not saying you are wrong but nowhere have I seen Brax come close to a top-50 ranking. He's not even in the top-10 in terms of WR rankings. That right there will push him deeper into the draft. Coleman and Doctson who had serious injuries this year will go before Brax does. Brax is purely playing impressing off of potential. I'm a Buckeye guy and really hope Brax gets a good chance, but he's not done anything to prove he's nothing more than a "potentially" good WR.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Where? I'm not saying you are wrong but nowhere have I seen Brax come close to a top-50 ranking. He's not even in the top-10 in terms of WR rankings. That right there will push him deeper into the draft. Coleman and Doctson who had serious injuries this year will go before Brax does. Brax is purely playing impressing off of potential. I'm a Buckeye guy and really hope Brax gets a good chance, but he's not done anything to prove he's nothing more than a "potentially" good WR.

 

Miller is 46th on Daniel Jeremiah's top-50...

 

Link is here....

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft

 

And note that Jeremiah's list came out Jan 18th.    And with the way Miller looked this week at the Senior Bowl,  that projections is looking pretty darn good.      Again,   I'm not saying he's 1st round -- not yet at least.

 

But he feels very day 2.

 

Miller is also 80th (3rd round) on CBS Sports and he's 108th (high 4th round) for Scouts Inc,  that's Todd McShay's crew at ESPN.       I'd expect that to rise on the next re-evaluation.     That was done before Senior Bowl week.

 

Miller's stock is rising.....

 

[BleedBlu8792]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Miller is 46th on Daniel Jeremiah's top-50...

 

Link is here....

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft

 

And note that Jeremiah's list came out Jan 18th.    And with the way Miller looked this week at the Senior Bowl,  that projections is looking pretty darn good.      Again,   I'm not saying he's 1st round -- not yet at least.

 

But he feels very day 2.

 

Miller is also 80th (3rd round) on CBS Sports and he's 108th (high 4th round) for Scouts Inc,  that's Todd McShay's crew at ESPN.       I'd expect that to rise on the next re-evaluation.     That was done before Senior Bowl week.

 

Miller's stock is rising.....

 

Comical... Jeremiah ranks Braxton right behind Will Fuller. Seriously?!? Although, this is the same guy who has Reggie Ragland 10th...

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Comical... Jeremiah ranks Braxton right behind Will Fuller. Seriously?!? Although, this is the same guy who has Reggie Ragland 10th...

 

Jeremiah scouted for NFL teams for 10 years.

 

He's not just another guy talking out of his rear end.

 

Remember,  fans see what a player IS.

 

Scouts try to see what a player can be. 

 

That's a big difference.

 

[Defjamz26]

I don't think age matters. Like a car, it's all about the mileage. Miller has been dinged up a bit but has good mileage. He's still learning how to be a receiver, but there's nothing wrong with a late bloomer. He may hit his peak at 26 but that's alright. He might be a savy slot receiver at 30. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

NFL scouts have now voted Miller the top Senior Bowl prospect.

 

His stock is RISING,  very quickly.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000630247/article/nfl-scouts-vote-osus-braxton-miller-top-senior-bowl-standout

 

 

 

[bap1331]

Whenever I hear versatile wide receiver, the nightmares with Percy Harvin on my fantasy team begin...

 

Those wr just don't work in the nfl unless you run a college like offense in the nfl. Which only happened back in 2012 with the redskins and other teams. Then the following year rg3 was screwed when he found out he had to stay in the pocket.

[BleedBlu8792]

18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

NFL scouts have now voted Miller the top Senior Bowl prospect.

 

His stock is RISING,  very quickly.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000630247/article/nfl-scouts-vote-osus-braxton-miller-top-senior-bowl-standout

 

 

 

He was voted "top practice" player. He only had 2 catches for 8 yards and a kick return of 31 yards. You and they are making a lot out of nothing.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

He was voted "top practice" player. He only had 2 catches for 8 yards and a kick return of 31 yards. You and they are making a lot out of nothing.

 

They game itself means less to NFL types than practice does.    It's always been that way.

 

That's why you typically read that the scouts go home on Friday, the day before the game.

 

When a fan is saying that scouts are making a lot out of nothing,  you should really get a grip.    You're a fan.   They are scouts.     Just because you disagree with them doesn't make you right and them wrong.

 

You can fight this all day long,  but in a few weeks when the websites come out with updated lists of top-50 and top-100 and so on,  Miller is going to be much, much higher than you think he should be. 

 

 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

He was voted "top practice" player. He only had 2 catches for 8 yards and a kick return of 31 yards. You and they are making a lot out of nothing.

 

I feel like you're being stubborn here. A few posts ago you challenged the idea that he could be a top 64 player, and NCF showed people in the know talking about him in that exact context. It's gotten even louder after the Senior Bowl practices. And you're still acting like it's entirely made up. That's strange.

 

You could just say that you don't think that highly of him, but you're being entirely dismissive of the idea, despite plenty of evidence of NFL scouts talking very highly of him.

 

I don't know where he'll be drafted, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him drafted in the second round. 

[BleedBlu8792]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I feel like you're being stubborn here. A few posts ago you challenged the idea that he could be a top 64 player, and NCF showed people in the know talking about him in that exact context. It's gotten even louder after the Senior Bowl practices. And you're still acting like it's entirely made up. That's strange.

 

You could just say that you don't think that highly of him, but you're being entirely dismissive of the idea, despite plenty of evidence of NFL scouts talking very highly of him.

 

I don't know where he'll be drafted, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him drafted in the second round. 

 

Stubborn? Just because I don't believe everything that I read or buy into the hype doesn't make me stubborn. Scouts aren't above making erroneous judgements. I watched Braxton play probably more than anyone on here, and as I stated earlier, as a Buckeye fan I'm one of his biggest fans and I hope he gets a chance to prove himself. However, I didn't see anything special from him that I've not seen from the other top-5 to 10 WR prospects from this class. 

 

Prime example, again just my opinion, but a guy who's only played one year as a WR, never played as a KR/PR, is going to grade out higher than a 1500 yard receiver and elite kick returner? Comparison of Braxton to Tyler Locket.

 

I know I know.. "they're scouts and you arent", but unless they are wearing some magic sooperdooper glasses, I'm not sure that scout is seeing or noticing THAT much more than what we are. I've seen better write-ups and comparisons from a couple of you here, that came closer to actually happening, than those guys with a "title".

 

In no way was I attacking NCF, but more as to what he was supplying as info, and I apologize if it made it look that way. I guess I'm just challenging the thoughts of the scouts as to what they are seeing, but all I'm seeing is how great he "practiced". The scouts info is vague in my opinion. I guess I'm just not seeing what they are.

[Superman]

24 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Stubborn? Just because I don't believe everything that I read or buy into the hype doesn't make me stubborn. Scouts aren't above making erroneous judgements. I watched Braxton play probably more than anyone on here, and as I stated earlier, as a Buckeye fan I'm one of his biggest fans and I hope he gets a chance to prove himself. However, I didn't see anything special from him that I've not seen from the other top-5 to 10 WR prospects from this class. 

 

Prime example, again just my opinion, but a guy who's only played one year as a WR, never played as a KR/PR, is going to grade out higher than a 1500 yard receiver and elite kick returner? Comparison of Braxton to Tyler Locket.

 

I know I know.. "they're scouts and you arent", but unless they are wearing some magic sooperdooper glasses, I'm not sure that scout is seeing or noticing THAT much more than what we are. I've seen better write-ups and comparisons from a couple of you here, that came closer to actually happening, than those guys with a "title".

 

In no way was I attacking NCF, but more as to what he was supplying as info, and I apologize if it made it look that way. I guess I'm just challenging the thoughts of the scouts as to what they are seeing, but all I'm seeing is how great he "practiced". The scouts info is vague in my opinion. I guess I'm just not seeing what they are.

 

No, like I said, it's one thing to say 'I disagree with what everybody is saying.' It's another thing to act like nobody is saying it (which is what you first did), or to be completely dismissive of anyone who is saying (which is what you next did). 

 

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with popular opinion. Just seemed like you were on a crusade. 

 

I don't think Braxton Miller is a top 64 player. I think he's a third rounder. But there's some hype surrounding him, and he's obviously a workout warrior. He'll do well at the Combine, he interviews well, etc. And we see workout warriors climb draft boards every year during draft season. 

[Dustin]

If he runs a sub 4.4 he's basically a lock for the top 40. 

[BleedBlu8792]

4 minutes ago, Dustin said:

If he runs a sub 4.4 he's basically a lock for the top 40.

 

It's possible that he could, especially since he's dropped 10lbs from the season. I think that will be his saving grace if he does hit that sub 4.4 number.

[Superman]

40 minutes ago, Dustin said:

If he runs a sub 4.4 he's basically a lock for the top 40. 

 

Yeah if he blows it up, he could be a guy that someone moves up to the top of the second round for.

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Stubborn? Just because I don't believe everything that I read or buy into the hype doesn't make me stubborn. Scouts aren't above making erroneous judgements. I watched Braxton play probably more than anyone on here, and as I stated earlier, as a Buckeye fan I'm one of his biggest fans and I hope he gets a chance to prove himself. However, I didn't see anything special from him that I've not seen from the other top-5 to 10 WR prospects from this class. 

 

Prime example, again just my opinion, but a guy who's only played one year as a WR, never played as a KR/PR, is going to grade out higher than a 1500 yard receiver and elite kick returner? Comparison of Braxton to Tyler Locket.

 

I know I know.. "they're scouts and you arent", but unless they are wearing some magic sooperdooper glasses, I'm not sure that scout is seeing or noticing THAT much more than what we are. I've seen better write-ups and comparisons from a couple of you here, that came closer to actually happening, than those guys with a "title".

 

In no way was I attacking NCF, but more as to what he was supplying as info, and I apologize if it made it look that way. I guess I'm just challenging the thoughts of the scouts as to what they are seeing, but all I'm seeing is how great he "practiced". The scouts info is vague in my opinion. I guess I'm just not seeing what they are.

 

OK.....      Now you're changing your argument -- completely.

 

This began because you said he wasn't better than a 4th rounder.     Your words -- not mine.

 

Now you're argument is that he's not better than top-5 or top 10.        Completely different.

 

Top 5 WR's go in the first round.       The next 5 typically go in the 2nd round.

 

So, you've completely changed your argument here.

 

If you peg roughly 5 WR's per round then a 4th round guy should be somewhere ranked 16-20.

 

See the difference?

 

[BleedBlu8792]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK.....      Now you're changing your argument -- completely.

 

This began because you said he wasn't better than a 4th rounder.     Your words -- not mine.

 

Now you're argument is that he's not better than top-5 or top 10.        Completely different.

 

Top 5 WR's go in the first round.       The next 5 typically go in the 2nd round.

 

So, you've completely changed your argument here.

 

If you peg roughly 5 WR's per round then a 4th round guy should be somewhere ranked 16-20.

 

See the difference?

 

 

There's no blueprint for that. I highly doubt 5 WR's are going in the first round this year and I wouldn't be surprised if 5 didn't go in the first 40 picks. This is a shallow WR class this year, in my opinion.

 

I didn't say 4th rounder either, as you've clearly mis-read. As a matter of fact, I said I would take Braxton in the 3rd. I think he has the chance to be a Randle El-type player.

 

So, no, my argument hasn't changed. It's a watered down group, and it does nothing to help Braxton. Unless, to which I agreed with in a previous post, he runs a sub 4.4 I could see that pushing him up, but outside of that he doesn't present anything special than the other top-5 to 10 guys.

 

I've got ZERO problems being wrong about all of this, and as a "fan" I hope I am, but again I just don't see him as a top-64 player right now.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

There's no blueprint for that. I highly doubt 5 WR's are going in the first round this year and I wouldn't be surprised if 5 didn't go in the first 40 picks. This is a shallow WR class this year, in my opinion.

 

I didn't say 4th rounder either, as you've clearly mis-read. As a matter of fact, I said I would take Braxton in the 3rd. I think he has the chance to be a Randle El-type player.

 

So, no, my argument hasn't changed. It's a watered down group, and it does nothing to help Braxton. Unless, to which I agreed with in a previous post, he runs a sub 4.4 I could see that pushing him up, but outside of that he doesn't present anything special than the other top-5 to 10 guys.

 

I've got ZERO problems being wrong about all of this, and as a "fan" I hope I am, but again I just don't see him as a top-64 player right now.

 

My apologies to you.    I don't know where I got it.    Thought for sure that you had, and re-read our exchanges and you didn't.     My bad.    Completely mine.

 

Really sorry.

 

By the way,  we absolutely agree that this is NOT a great class of WR's.    I think it's way down from the last two years BOTH of which were both great and deep.     

 

But even if we're right,    if it's not 5 WR's per round,  it'll be 4,  so 8 will go in the top 64.     

 

As of today,  all I'm saying is that I think he's Day-two kid.    So, somewhere between 32 and 99.   

 

For what little it's worth (and I emphasize little)   I found the other site that had Miller as a top-50 kid PRIOR to the senior bowl....   CBS Sports has Miller in the 40's.       I like CBS Sports,  but I DON'T love them and am always skeptical of their information.

 

 

 

[BleedBlu8792]

43 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

My apologies to you.    I don't know where I got it.    Thought for sure that you had, and re-read our exchanges and you didn't.     My bad.    Completely mine.

 

Really sorry.

 

By the way,  we absolutely agree that this is NOT a great class of WR's.    I think it's way down from the last two years BOTH of which were both great and deep.     

 

But even if we're right,    if it's not 5 WR's per round,  it'll be 4,  so 8 will go in the top 64.     

 

As of today,  all I'm saying is that I think he's Day-two kid.    So, somewhere between 32 and 99.   

 

For what little it's worth (and I emphasize little)   I found the other site that had Miller as a top-50 kid PRIOR to the senior bowl....   CBS Sports has Miller in the 40's.       I like CBS Sports,  but I DON'T love them and am always skeptical of their information.

 

 

 

You're good man.. things get over-looked. I did see a draft mock on NFL.com this evening that showed Braxton getting picked 24th. Again, as was stated earlier, he gets into the 4.3's then it gets really interesting with him.

[gacoop1]

Oh no! Not another WR.  Phillip Dorsett all over again. lol.