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Tsarquise

In the Luck era do we...

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Do we run the stretch play anymore?

 

I remember in the Manning era that the stretch play was our go to running play... And it was pretty effective. 

 

So if we don't run it much anymore, why not?

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Tends to work better with a zone based line scheme, we've been running a power scheme since Luck got here. Hopefully this year we'll play a zone

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8 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

Tends to work better with a zone based line scheme, we've been running a power scheme since Luck got here. Hopefully this year we'll play a zone

Yeah, it seems we're going ZBS and I think most people are happy about that. This should be an interesting off season with all the staff changes and oline free agents. 

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"The stretch" was run very effectively by Indy in the Manning years....which was a ZBS Offensive Line. Though, Edge was a perfect fit for the scheme(one of the reasons Indy took him over Williams)and Peyton sold it so well! I don't see a running back that is currently on the roster who would be a good fit utilizing "the stretch" play?

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I was watching old Colts games and our running backs seemed to always gain yards on that play... Hope we indeed do switch...

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Philbin's gonna work some magic.

(i hope)

i think the fresh blood thru the coaching staff should bring a fresh back to basics vibe.  I'm. Hoping this btings a freshness and crispness to the team.

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5 hours ago, peytonmanning18 said:

Does anyone run that play anymore?  Once Edge left we kind of went away from it.

 

I thought so too, I don't recall it being around as much since Edge left. But, I could be wrong and someone here can add more.

 

Sigh.......those old offenses on the Colts were so down right nasty.:sip: 

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10 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

Yeah, it seems we're going ZBS and I think most people are happy about that. This should be an interesting off season with all the staff changes and oline free agents. 

 

We are going back to zbs? Where did you hear/read that? Because of philbin?

 

It seems unlikely to me that pagano would go away from anything named POWER scheme..

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2 hours ago, CroatianColtsFan21 said:

 

We are going back to zbs? Where did you hear/read that? Because of philbin?

 

It seems unlikely to me that pagano would go away from anything named POWER scheme..

Chud is a zone guy, Philbin is a zone guy. ZBS lines are easiercto build and do well with.  Do the math.

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I certainly hope we go to a zone blocking scheme.  With what I've read about it, it seems like power man blocking schemes are pretty outdated and somewhat inferior.  

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5 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

I certainly hope we go to a zone blocking scheme.  With what I've read about it, it seems like power man blocking schemes are pretty outdated and somewhat inferior.  

 

I don't think it's a case of the power man blocking scheme being outdated and inferior as much as it is a case of being more difficult to find and pay players with the right skill set to make a power blocking scheme work.

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47 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I don't think it's a case of the power man blocking scheme being outdated and inferior as much as it is a case of being more difficult to find and pay players with the right skill set to make a power blocking scheme work.

 

I disagree. . . I read about Zone blocking schemes and it seems like they are more flexible.  The power man seems to be focused on opening up one hole for the back to run through, while a zone blocking scheme is more flexible and allows the back to look at 3 different holes and use his vision to pick the best one.

 

The only advantage to power man that I've found is that it's *slightly* less likely to lead to a back being brought down in the backfield then zone blocking.  However zone blocking seems far more likely then power man to lead to 5+ yard gains.  So it's a little bit more hit or miss then power.  And that makes sense, the point of zone seems to be to create holes for the RB while the point of power seems to be to push the opposing team off the ball. 

 

To me that only value power man has is sort of goal line running where the aim is to gain 1 or 2 yards and get the first down or TD.  And you can use power man blocking in these situation while still using zone on 1st and 2nd downs.  

 

Also I would point out that if a scheme like say Power blocking it's harder to find the right players to make it work and such a scheme doesn't give you a clear advantage on the field when you do find the right players then it's an inferior scheme for simply being harder to find the proper players to make it work.  

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I disagree. . . I read about Zone blocking schemes and it seems like they are more flexible.  The power man seems to be focused on opening up one hole for the back to run through, while a zone blocking scheme is more flexible and allows the back to look at 3 different holes and use his vision to pick the best one.

 

The only advantage to power man that I've found is that it's *slightly* less likely to lead to a back being brought down in the backfield then zone blocking.  However zone blocking seems far more likely then power man to lead to 5+ yard gains.  So it's a little bit more hit or miss then power.  And that makes sense, the point of zone seems to be to create holes for the RB while the point of power seems to be to push the opposing team off the ball. 

 

To me that only value power man has is sort of goal line running where the aim is to gain 1 or 2 yards and get the first down or TD.  And you can use power man blocking in these situation while still using zone on 1st and 2nd downs.  

 

Well, let's assume that everything you said is true....then why are there still teams that run Power Man blocking schemes?  

 

Quote

Also I would point out that if a scheme like say Power blocking it's harder to find the right players to make it work and such a scheme doesn't give you a clear advantage on the field when you do find the right players then it's an inferior scheme for simply being harder to find the proper players to make it work.  

 

The same has been said for Zone coverage defense vs. Press Man defense...it's easier to find guys that can play in zone than press man.  Does that mean press man is an inferior scheme?

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Hopefully Philbin can work his magic and help us land Lamar Miller this free agency. He would be a perfect back to run behind a ZBS.

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An OL coach who recognizes the best schemes the majority of his OL flourishes in will determine the schemes chosen to run. If I am Philbin, that is the first thing I do.

 

You can still run a power scheme with the same OL if you invest in some extra tackles and guards suited for the power run that can be used in goal line situations. Or, heck invest in power TEs which may give you more wham blocks and options than investing in power OLs for goal line situations.

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7 hours ago, Jules said:

 

I thought so too, I don't recall it being around as much since Edge left. But, I could be wrong and someone here can add more.

 

Sigh.......those old offenses on the Colts were so down right nasty.:sip: 

 

13 hours ago, peytonmanning18 said:

Does anyone run that play anymore?  Once Edge left we kind of went away from it.

No, we ran it with Addai all the time. Was watching old games yesterday. 

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ZBS opens up quite an array of offensive sets & plays, no matter if that's running or passing. It's very beneficial & serves as an advantage over most defensive sets. Keeps 'em guessing. And that's the name of the game. 

 

Unless you're the New England Patriots videotaping the plays before hand. :) 

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1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I disagree. . . I read about Zone blocking schemes and it seems like they are more flexible.  The power man seems to be focused on opening up one hole for the back to run through, while a zone blocking scheme is more flexible and allows the back to look at 3 different holes and use his vision to pick the best one.

 

The only advantage to power man that I've found is that it's *slightly* less likely to lead to a back being brought down in the backfield then zone blocking.  However zone blocking seems far more likely then power man to lead to 5+ yard gains.  So it's a little bit more hit or miss then power.  And that makes sense, the point of zone seems to be to create holes for the RB while the point of power seems to be to push the opposing team off the ball. 

 

To me that only value power man has is sort of goal line running where the aim is to gain 1 or 2 yards and get the first down or TD.  And you can use power man blocking in these situation while still using zone on 1st and 2nd downs.  

 

Also I would point out that if a scheme like say Power blocking it's harder to find the right players to make it work and such a scheme doesn't give you a clear advantage on the field when you do find the right players then it's an inferior scheme for simply being harder to find the proper players to make it work.  

 

 

I think youre putting this in terms of black and white when that's not the case. Any team that is ZBS also runs PBS looks aND vice versa. Tendencies will vary depending on the opponent, but you play them based on your teams strengths. It's easier to find OL to fit ZBS because it doesn't require (at least to the same extent), big powerful OL who move also move well - so what Jason said is true.

 

There is still value to teams who are predominantly ZBS to run power looks. Maybe they need a yard and PBS is the best way to get it or teams are over playing the edges and have been successful in closing the cutback. It's not an either or, and guys who fit zone schemes can still contribute in power plays, even if it's not their strong suit. The reverse also applies for linemen suited for power schemes. They may not move as well, but for a once in a series play, it could catch a D off guard and shift the momentum a bit.

 

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pretty sure pep would run the occasional stretch.  dont remember seeing any since he left 

 

i dont think gore favors stretch plays either 

 

it was a great fit for the talent we had back then.  manning, james, and the line were all really good at it

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1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

pretty sure pep would run the occasional stretch.  dont remember seeing any since he left 

 

i dont think gore favors stretch plays either 

 

it was a great fit for the talent we had back then.  manning, james, and the line were all really good at it

Gore isn't the ideal back to run "the stretch".

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7 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

 

No, we ran it with Addai all the time. Was watching old games yesterday. 

 

You're right, we did, but I don't think it was as lethal post Edge was it? I just remember a lot of fans in 2006 saying that to me but maybe they were overly critical. I heard a lot of "The stretch play lost it's luster without Edge."

 

My memory is very fuzzy for some reason with Addai/Rhodes and the stretch play. I know it happened.......but I am not getting as much lol.

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1 hour ago, Jules said:

 

You're right, we did, but I don't think it was as lethal post Edge was it? I just remember a lot of fans in 2006 saying that to me but maybe they were overly critical. I heard a lot of "The stretch play lost it's luster without Edge."

 

My memory is very fuzzy for some reason with Addai/Rhodes and the stretch play. I know it happened.......but I am not getting as much lol.

I was watching the game in 2007 against the Pats, where both teams were undefeated, and they were just gashing them with that stretch play, at least they were gashing them compared to what we do now...to see It, was a breath of fresh air. 

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