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Browns make staff hires


SkyBane

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Just an update on Pep, his official title is "Assistant head coach: Offense". Basically what Chud did while Pep was OC here in Indy, but he has also been given the responsibility of coaching up the QBs. I don't really understand the hierarchy in Jackson's offensive staff tbh.

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27 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

Just an update on Pep, his official title is "Assistant head coach: Offense". Basically what Chud did while Pep was OC here in Indy, but he has also been given the responsibility of coaching up the QBs. I don't really understand the hierarchy in Jackson's offensive staff tbh.

"Up" is the only direction their QB's can go. 

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2 hours ago, SkyBane said:

Just an update on Pep, his official title is "Assistant head coach: Offense". Basically what Chud did while Pep was OC here in Indy, but he has also been given the responsibility of coaching up the QBs. I don't really understand the hierarchy in Jackson's offensive staff tbh.

 

OMG........Pep Hamilton is the assistant head coach on offense there? 

 

Wow........

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Yes, Jules that is what I meant. I don't think Pep Hamilton was a good hire whatsoever. They also just hired a baseball guy as their new GM I read on Deadspin last month. 

 

 

I feel bad for their fans, I really do. They're loyal and they've been through the ringer every year for a long time now. 

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3 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

Yes, Jules that is what I meant. I don't think Pep Hamilton was a good hire whatsoever. They also just hired a baseball guy as their new GM I read on Deadspin last month. 

 

 

I feel bad for their fans, I really do. They're loyal and they've been through the ringer every year for a long time now. 

That's slightly inaccurate. They hired the moneyball guy as their new GM. Baseball fans have always kinda shunned the guy as not really knowing baseball in the traditional sense, as he's always relied heavile on sabremetrics and statistics to bring in guys and predict success based purely on a numbers game. In truth, he's always watched known more about football. 

 

I'm not sure bringing in a sabremetrics guy will work in the NFL, but it's a different approach at least.

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3 hours ago, SkyBane said:

I'm not sure bringing in a sabremetrics guy will work in the NFL, but it's a different approach at least.

 

I think you need football people in football positions { GM, Coaches, etc...}  and teams need Sabermetric / Analytic guys/gals in Quality Control / Advanced team Scouting departments.  A place for everything, and everything in it's place.

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42 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I think you need football people in football positions { GM, Coaches, etc...}  and teams need Sabermetric / Analytic guys/gals in Quality Control / Advanced team Scouting departments.  A place for everything, and everything in it's place.

I'm sure you realize, but the entire point of sabremetrics is that it's an entire scouting philosophy based on finding diamonds in the rough through advanced statistics and getting them while their cheap to maximize the talent to payroll balance. Hence the term moneyball.

 

Hiring their current GM is the Browns basically throwing up the white flag on traditional scouting, as they've proven time and time again to be bad at it, and going with a pure analytics approach.

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49 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

I'm sure you realize, but the entire point of sabremetrics is that it's an entire scouting philosophy based on finding diamonds in the rough through advanced statistics and getting them while their cheap to maximize the talent to payroll balance. Hence the term moneyball.

 

Hiring their current GM is the Browns basically throwing up the white flag on traditional scouting, as they've proven time and time again to be bad at it, and going with a pure analytics approach.

 

Yup, and my point is, while it may work in baseball, it won't work at the GM level in football.  As far as revamping the scouting department (both college and upcoming teams), I'm all for it.  It is another tool,not a replacement.

 

With so few games, and intangibles and emotion such a big part of the games, (especially where 1 play can mean the difference between a win or a loss) pure statistics can't always supply the right answer, IMHO.

 

I think analytics provides more information for a GM, they can't replace an NFL GM.

 

I can hardly wait t0 see the statistical models that will tell if a college athletes skills will translate to the Pro's.

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8 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yup, and my point is, while it may work in baseball, it won't work at the GM level in football.  As far as revamping the scouting department (both college and upcoming teams), I'm all for it.  It is another tool,not a replacement.

 

With so few games, and intangibles and emotion such a big part of the games, (especially where 1 play can mean the difference between a win or a loss) pure statistics can't always supply the right answer, IMHO.

 

I think analytics provides more information for a GM, they can't replace an NFL GM.

 

I can hardly wait t0 see the statistical models that will tell if a college athletes skills will translate to the Pro's.

 

I think we've already seen analytics can have a negative effect in some ways. People run a quick 40 and blow up the draft boards... run a slow time and drop like a stone. All of an arbitrary number that doesn't have as much of an direct application to football as you might think. 

 

I'm all for analysis of stats and measuring more things, but you still need football knowledge (i.e. watching a guy on film) to underpin the decision making process. 

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13 hours ago, Bogie said:

 

Yes, Jules that is what I meant. I don't think Pep Hamilton was a good hire whatsoever. They also just hired a baseball guy as their new GM I read on Deadspin last month. 

 

I feel bad for their fans, I really do. They're loyal and they've been through the ringer every year for a long time now. 

 

Hue Jackson was one of the hottest candidates available. I think they made the best HC hire of anyone this offseason.

 

Pep Hamilton is QB coach and assistant head coach. Jackson will call the offense. He's also hired Al Saunders, long time offensive assistant in the NFL, who was with Jackson in Oakland. That's a pretty good offensive brain trust, despite how little I think of Hamilton.

 

Ray Horton is a hot defensive coordinator candidate, and a good hire.

 

They have not hired a GM. The baseball guy you're talking about is Chief Strategy Officer, not GM. His job is to help the personnel staff figure out the best and most efficient ways to improve the roster. The guy with final say is Sashi Brown, a big picture guy who has worked as a #2 for a decade in the NFL, who is familiar with administration, salary cap, player contracts, etc. They still plan to hire a 'football guy' as GM.

 

Depending on who gets that GM job, I think they're having a pretty good offseason.

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4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yup, and my point is, while it may work in baseball, it won't work at the GM level in football.  As far as revamping the scouting department (both college and upcoming teams), I'm all for it.  It is another tool,not a replacement.

 

With so few games, and intangibles and emotion such a big part of the games, (especially where 1 play can mean the difference between a win or a loss) pure statistics can't always supply the right answer, IMHO.

 

I think analytics provides more information for a GM, they can't replace an NFL GM.

 

I can hardly wait t0 see the statistical models that will tell if a college athletes skills will translate to the Pro's.

 

I just mentioned this, but they haven't hired a GM. DePodesta and Brown are big picture / administration guys, and they are still going to hire a personnel guy.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Hue Jackson was one of the hottest candidates available. I think they made the best HC hire of anyone this offseason.

 

Pep Hamilton is QB coach and assistant head coach. Jackson will call the offense. He's also hired Al Saunders, long time offensive assistant in the NFL, who was with Jackson in Oakland. That's a pretty good offensive brain trust, despite how little I think of Hamilton.

 

Ray Horton is a hot defensive coordinator candidate, and a good hire.

 

They have not hired a GM. The baseball guy you're talking about is Chief Strategy Officer, not GM. His job is to help the personnel staff figure out the best and most efficient ways to improve the roster. The guy with final say is Sashi Brown, a big picture guy who has worked as a #2 for a decade in the NFL, who is familiar with administration, salary cap, player contracts, etc. They still plan to hire a 'football guy' as GM.

 

Depending on who gets that GM job, I think they're having a pretty good offseason.

I was confused. I was under the impression DePodesta was the GM. I still kind of like that they have put some faith in him to try a different approach, it at least shows a willingness to try and fix things.

 

Edit: As I post this, I just read the Browns have hired Hal Hunter as their O line coach. 2 steps forward one back I guess.

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9 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

I was confused. I was under the impression DePodesta was the GM. I still kind of like that they have put some faith in him to try a different approach, it at least shows a willingness to try and fix things.

 

Edit: As I post this, I just read the Browns have hired Hal Hunter as their O line coach. 2 steps forward one back I guess.

 

I just found this article: http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-browns/cleveland-browns-1.270107/browns-head-of-football-operations-sashi-brown-addresses-johnny-manziel-josh-gordon-not-hiring-gm-1.656355

Quote

Talent evaluator search

Brown said the organization won't hire a general manager after all. Instead, it's seeking a vice president of player personnel and expects to hire one in a week or two.

After Haslam fired coach Mike Pettine and GM Ray Farmer on Jan. 3, the owner said the team would hire a GM.

"The position we’re looking at is vice president of player personnel," Brown said. "We are confident. We’ve interviewed a number of candidates. ... We will find a very talented evaluator. We’re confident in that."

Why hire a VP of player personnel and not a GM?

"First of all, we think the GM role has expanded a ton and as you see, we don’t think we can have enough talented people in the building," Brown replied. "We do feel like we want someone here who’s focused primarily on personnel and talent evaluation. It is critical to what we’ll be doing. So stretching him into other things was not something, in terms of when Jimmy and I sat back with [President] Alec [Scheiner], Paul and Dee [Haslam] to figure out what the structure [should] even look like, it was important to get someone who was primarily and almost exclusively focused on that."

Other teams can block the Browns from interviewing members of their player personnel departments because Brown has control of the 53-man roster. Brown acknowledged some teams have done that.

"The hubbub of back and forth about guys getting blocked is fairly natural," Brown said. "It’s just kind of one of the oddities of an NFL schedule. At the same time, people are building their draft boards and going into free agency and relying on their personnel guys, teams are trying to pluck them out of there. So it wasn’t a surprise to us. Frankly, we expected it. A lot of these guys are really talented and vital to their organizations. We weren’t surprised to know that some of the GMs around the league weren’t excited about having their guys walk out the door right now, particularly because some of these teams have set their draft boards already. So there’s a lot of proprietary information."

Brown, a graduate of Harvard Law School who has primarily been a salary-cap manager and contract negotiator until his latest big promotion, was asked why he's qualified to have final say on the 53-man roster.

"This is my 12th [NFL] season coming up, and I’ve been involved in a lot of the decisions in terms of how do you build a roster," Brown said. "And we think that’s as strategic as it is important to have the evaluations of players right, and that’s the strength that I bring, in terms of the strategy of it. And we’ll rely heavily, we already have, with talented personnel staff and will bring in a vice president of player personnel, and he and I will work together with Paul and Hue collaboratively to make sure that we make the best possible decisions for our organization moving forward."

 

 

So they're not going to hire a GM, they're going to hire a VP of Player Personnel. Still, the point is that they want to hire a football personnel guy who will presumably be in charge of scouting, drafting, etc. That's not the big picture guy (Brown), and it's not the 'basebally guy' (DePodesta) either. 

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12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I just found this article: http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-browns/cleveland-browns-1.270107/browns-head-of-football-operations-sashi-brown-addresses-johnny-manziel-josh-gordon-not-hiring-gm-1.656355

 

So they're not going to hire a GM, they're going to hire a VP of Player Personnel. Still, the point is that they want to hire a football personnel guy who will presumably be in charge of scouting, drafting, etc. That's not the big picture guy (Brown), and it's not the 'basebally guy' (DePodesta) either. 

Between this and the coach going no offensive coordinator, Cleveland is just breaking all the rules. It will be interesting to see how the front office functions.

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1 hour ago, SkyBane said:

Between this and the coach going no offensive coordinator, Cleveland is just breaking all the rules. It will be interesting to see how the front office functions.

 

I think the no OC deal is just semantics. Several teams have OCs who don't call the plays because the head coach does, and that's pretty much what the Browns are doing. I don't really like that setup, but it's not revolutionary.

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25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think the no OC deal is just semantics. Several teams have OCs who don't call the plays because the head coach does, and that's pretty much what the Browns are doing. I don't really like that setup, but it's not revolutionary.

I think it's particularly not something a new head coach should try, but is more likely too because they are used to that responsibility and just think it'll be easier to juggle both than manage an extra person.

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5 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

I think it's particularly not something a new head coach should try, but is more likely too because they are used to that responsibility and just think it'll be easier to juggle both than manage an extra person.

 

Bruce Arians said he was going to keep calling plays until he found someone that's better at it than he is. Mike McCarthy gave up play calling, then took it back. Sean Payton has been calling plays for a decade, Andy Reid, etc. I don't like it for a lot of reasons, but I see why some coaches prefer it that way.

 

I think Hue Jackson is setting up a staff where he spends 90% of his time working with the offense, lets his defensive staff and special teams staff work on their stuff, and then he'll have input into the gameplanning and game day decisions. But he's an offensive guy, he got the job because of his ability to coach offense, and he plans to stick to his strengths. I get it. I think that's kind of what Pagano wanted, and what he got when he hired Arians. I think it's what Arians did when he took over for Pagano. 

 

I prefer the CEO guy who oversees everything. But pretty much every coach is going to have a leaning to one side of the ball or the other.

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28 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Bruce Arians said he was going to keep calling plays until he found someone that's better at it than he is. Mike McCarthy gave up play calling, then took it back. Sean Payton has been calling plays for a decade, Andy Reid, etc. I don't like it for a lot of reasons, but I see why some coaches prefer it that way.

 

I think Hue Jackson is setting up a staff where he spends 90% of his time working with the offense, lets his defensive staff and special teams staff work on their stuff, and then he'll have input into the gameplanning and game day decisions. But he's an offensive guy, he got the job because of his ability to coach offense, and he plans to stick to his strengths. I get it. I think that's kind of what Pagano wanted, and what he got when he hired Arians. I think it's what Arians did when he took over for Pagano. 

 

I prefer the CEO guy who oversees everything. But pretty much every coach is going to have a leaning to one side of the ball or the other.

They can't all be Belichick with the mind and OCD to control everything lol.

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