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Patriots favored over Broncos by 3.5 points


chad72

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This game is absolutely the Denver Broncos vs the Pats. 

 

All we need is for Manning to be efficient and take care of the ball. He doesn't have to do anything flashy or spectacular, just dont turn the ball over.  And we need to stop with all the drops. 

 

I feel like the Broncos are more of a "team" than in years past and it'll take all 3 phases to get this one. 

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44 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Go Broncos. I picked them to win the SB before the season started and I am a Truediehard Colts fan but just felt the Broncos and Pats both still had better teams coming into this season. Yes my Colts beat the Broncos last season in the Playoffs but Peyton was playing injured, I'll take it and it gave us a Final 4 berth but I could tell Peyton wasn't right. To Andrew's credit he did Good against the Broncos Defense which helped. I will always root for Peyton unless he plays the Colts. Just how my DNA is made up. Peyton has done a ton for our organization and city. We would not have a team here, let me repeat - we would not have a team here today if we hadn't drafted Peyton. Because of our success and winning a SB with him, it enabled us many options. Had we drafted Leaf instead, there would be no team here IMO.

 Yes, he was injured and it seemed like fox and co just threw in the towel before the game even started. The Colts came out to play and we just didnt deserve that one. I'm hoping Manning can go out on top this year and retire. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

Interesting that you use regular season numbers to back up Brady's mediocre playoff stats. You really don't want to go down this path of who was the statistically better quarterback. You say "so on" like Brady had so many instances of being statistically better than Manning but that's simply not factual. That's something you and I both know isn't true so don't go there unless you want to be forced to retreat to playoff wins like the countless other Patriots/Brady fans do.

 

My whole point is to show that Manning's playoff performance (last week and so forth if it continues), cannot be discounted simply because he's not putting up amazing numbers. Brady himself has had playoff runs with less than stellar stats as well.

 

Okay, I was under the impression that we were talking about both.  As a side note, some folks in the past have past over Brady's production in that period as being below average or just a game manager or system QB, when in fact he was not that, assuming there is one or that other are not in the same category, everyone has a system. 

 

As for his playoff production we need to remember a few things.  In those three playoff years 4 games were in Foxboro, three of them in the snow, and the fourth was the coldest game in the history of Foxboro.  The other 2 were in Pittsburgh and not exactly balmy. 

 

In the snow bowl game (oak '01) he threw for 350 yards in a blizzard and ran for a TD, in SBs 38 and 39, at a neutral and warm site, he PR was over 100 and needed to come through against Carolina where he set a record for pass completions.

 

So yes I do agree with you 100% the D/ST helped out in some of those games 01-04 and Brady was pedestrian in some games too.  But at the same time games were played not in ideal elements and Brady came through when needed to get a win for a team in some games in that period.

 

As for Peyton, I agree with you 100% on your point in that a offense can be situational and complimentary to a strong D, can not agree with you more Restored on that point.  And there is no shame in doing so either. :).  And agree with your analogy to Brady's '01-'04.  

 

Hopefully for the Broncos sake, if they need Peyton to do a tad more this Sunday or in the SB, he can be the Sheriff he has been in the past.

 

Time to get the popcorn ready for Sunday :popcorn:

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Just now, VDB said:

 Yes, he was injured and it seemed like fox and co just threw in the towel before the game even started. The Colts came out to play and we just didnt deserve that one. I'm hoping Manning can go out on top this year and retire. 

 

Everyone on Around the Horn today just pick the Pats. Is there going to be 1 freakin person on ESPN to pick Denver or is that network going to continue to be a Brady lovefest!  

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Everyone on Around the Horn today just pick the Pats. Is there going to be 1 freakin person on ESPN to pick Denver or is that network going to continue to be a Brady lovefest!  

Nope,  itll continue to be a brady lovefest. 

 

One thing that bothers me is that I don't think any of them realize just how good our defense is. They've shut a lot of offenses down this year despite having an offense that can't stay on the field. 

 

If Manning and the offense can sustain some drives and be efficient we have a good chance. 

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1 minute ago, VDB said:

Nope,  itll continue to be a brady lovefest. 

 

One thing that bothers me is that I don't think any of them realize just how good our defense is. They've shut a lot of offenses down this year despite having an offense that can't stay on the field. 

 

If Manning and the offense can sustain some drives and be efficient we have a good chance. 

I think Peyton will bring his A game this week. He looks healthy and yes your Defense is the best in the league!

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7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Stephen A Smith

Skip Bayless

Blackistone

Torre

J. Hill

B. Jones

Golic

Greeny

D. Woodosn

M. Irvin

D. Sanders

M. Faulk

T. Bruschi

-all 13 pick the Pats. Well I pick Denver/ a nobody and all of these people make 6 figures on National TV but will be wrong.

Dont quote me on this but I believe the Broncos were underdogs at home against the Packers, Pats, and Bengals this year, and we came out on top. Just more motivation!

 

While I agree with the people who say Manning has looked bad this year, because he has, he was pretty good in the second half against the Chargers and he was pretty good against the Steelers. He had some zip and winds were up to 30 miles an hour which doesnt help. And all those drops kind of skewed the stats. The official number of drops was 7 but I could probably go back and count at least 10 that should have been caught. We really need to work on that this week. 

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34 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

I'm missing something here. I'm really trying to not have a Brady/Manning comparison, but you keep pushing this so ill respond to it.

 

If the Denver Broncos win the Superbowl and Peyton Manning doesn't throw a single touchdown and looks overall mediocre for all 3 playoff games, why do I need to say the same thing about Brady's playoff runs in which that has never been the case???

 

I want to understand your angle, I really do...I just don't get it. 

 

 

To your second paragraph: Actually it was the case and I've already listed the stats from two of those runs to back that up. All I'm asking for is consistency.

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6 minutes ago, Blue Horseshoe said:

I just think it is ridiculous how the media prattles on about what an offensive juggernaut the Patriots were this weekend and how anemic the Broncos were.  The Patriots scored 27 points.  The Broncos 24.

27 points at home against a team that came out uninspired and flat and they still gave up 20. 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Blue Horseshoe said:

I just think it is ridiculous how the media prattles on about what an offensive juggernaut the Patriots were on Sunday and how anemic the Broncos were.  The Patriots scored 27 points.  The Broncos 24.

 

Yes sir, BH! I've gone on record here & a couple of other threads saying ... If Denver plays close to a mistake-free football game they have an excellent chance of winning this thing v. N.E. Brady has thrown 55 TDs & "26 INTs" in 30 Playoff games. He has been vulnerable. Peyton is certainly capable of taking advantage of this. So is their defense. If Denver's D shows up, it's gonna be a lot closer than most think. 

 

Go Broncos!

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1 hour ago, Yehoodi said:

 

Okay, I was under the impression that we were talking about both.  As a side note, some folks in the past have past over Brady's production in that period as being below average or just a game manager or system QB, when in fact he was not that, assuming there is one or that other are not in the same category, everyone has a system. 

Well statistically, Brady's numbers reflected that of a game manager during that stretch. In the same way people are attaching that label to Manning now.

 

1 hour ago, Yehoodi said:

 

As for his playoff production we need to remember a few things.  In those three playoff years 4 games were in Foxboro, three of them in the snow, and the fourth was the coldest game in the history of Foxboro.  The other 2 were in Pittsburgh and not exactly balmy.

And some of Manning's worst playoff performances (statistically speaking atleast) have also come in weather. We can't start attaching superlatives to stats however because then we'd be creating a whole other animal in evaluating both of them.

 

1 hour ago, Yehoodi said:

 

In the snow bowl game (oak '01) he threw for 350 yards in a blizzard and ran for a TD, in SBs 38 and 39, at a neutral and warm site, he PR was over 100 and needed to come through against Carolina where he set a record for pass completions.

 

So yes I do agree with you 100% the D/ST helped out in some of those games 01-04 and Brady was pedestrian in some games too.  But at the same time games were played not in ideal elements and Brady came through when needed to get a win for a team in some games in that period.

 

I understand that and that's why I'm saying that now that Manning is in basically the same position (manage the game and make plays when needed to win), people want to somehow discount it like Brady didn't do it for the playoff games his teams won.

1 hour ago, Yehoodi said:

 

As for Peyton, I agree with you 100% on your point in that a offense can be situational and complimentary to a strong D, can not agree with you more Restored on that point.  And there is no shame in doing so either. :).  And agree with your analogy to Brady's '01-'04.  

 

Hopefully for the Broncos sake, if they need Peyton to do a tad more this Sunday or in the SB, he can be the Sheriff he has been in the past.

 

Time to get the popcorn ready for Sunday :popcorn:

Should be a good one!

 

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1 hour ago, Restored said:

 

 

To your second paragraph: Actually it was the case and I've already listed the stats from two of those runs to back that up. All I'm asking for is consistency.

Except that's totally false.

 

Neither of those two Super Bowl runs that you listed saw Brady throw zero touchdowns. If you're asking for consistency, then please provide comparable examples. 

 

You want me to 'admit' that Brady played just as 'eh' through an entire playoff run as Peyton has looked through the small sample size we have since his return, and I'm sorry but nothing you have posted 'backs up' that claim at all.

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15 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

Except that's totally false.

 

Neither of those two Super Bowl runs that you listed saw Brady throw zero touchdowns. If you're asking for consistency, then please provide comparable examples. 

 

You want me to 'admit' that Brady played just as 'eh' through an entire playoff run as Peyton has looked through the small sample size we have since his return, and I'm sorry but nothing you have posted 'backs up' that claim at all.

 

Actually, in 2001, Brady didn't throw for a TD in both the Raiders and Steelers games. But to not hold you to such a ridiculous notion of zero TD's, let's just stick to the "mediocre" term we have been using so far. Manning has been "mediocre" now as Brady was in 5 of those 6 games I listed.

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14 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

Actually, in 2001, Brady didn't throw for a TD in both the Raiders and Steelers games. But to not hold you to such a ridiculous notion of zero TD's, let's just stick to the "mediocre" term we have been using so far. Manning has been "mediocre" now as Brady was in 5 of those 6 games I listed.

Brady may not have thrown one...but he ran one in during the Raiders game.

 

Or does that not count?

 

And I know you don't want to reference the 2003 Super Bowl as a 'comparable example' of mediocre postseason play...right?

 

Its fine, it's not worth an argument and definitely not a big deal...I just don't think the examples you provided are really proving the point you think they are, that's all. 

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4 minutes ago, Mrs. Misunderstood said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread...  Just thought I'd pass through and add some humor :drama:

 

10644853_10152757153068403_5465764406287

 

carry on....

 

 

I love when Gramz says she's staying away from a thread but then just can't....quite....do it!!! ;)

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2 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

I love when Gramz says she's staying away from a thread but then just can't....quite....do it!!! ;)

haha  touche'  but to be clear,   I said I wasn't going to comment on the game anymore until after the game.. 

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21 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

Brady may not have thrown one...but he ran one in during the Raiders game.

 

Or does that not count?

 

And I know you don't want to reference the 2003 Super Bowl as a 'comparable example' of mediocre postseason play...right?

 

Its fine, it's not worth an argument and definitely not a big deal...I just don't think the examples you provided are really proving the point you think they are, that's all. 

 

You are the one who said passing touchdowns.. Nevertheless, he didn't have one in the AFCCG and only had 1 in the Super Bowl so you have a total of 2 TD's in 3 games. Seems pretty mediocre to me.

 

One game over a 6 game stretch hardly makes up for the rest of the mediocrity.

 

You can say that but the statistical evidence clearly proves otherwise. Carry on if you wish.

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2 hours ago, Blue Horseshoe said:

I just think it is ridiculous how the media prattles on about what an offensive juggernaut the Patriots were this weekend and how anemic the Broncos were.  The Patriots scored 27 points.  The Broncos 24.

I think its a fair statement. While the overall scores are close, the Patriots had 21 points through touchdowns and extra points, and 6 points from field goals. The Broncos had 15 points from field goals and 8 points from a TD and 2 point conversion. Others may disagree, but in my opinion the offensive performance from the Pats was ten fold better than the Broncos. The Patriots offense went out and dominated. The Broncos offense did what it needed to do to win the game. 

 

If if the Broncos are only able to muster up ONE TOUCHDOWN all game against this Patriots team, they're gonna have a bad time. 

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15 minutes ago, Kyle234 said:

I think its a fair statement. While the overall scores are close, the Patriots had 21 points through touchdowns and extra points, and 6 points from field goals. The Broncos had 15 points from field goals and 8 points from a TD and 2 point conversion. Others may disagree, but in my opinion the offensive performance from the Pats was ten fold better than the Broncos. The Patriots offense went out and dominated. The Broncos offense did what it needed to do to win the game. 

The Patriots also scored their points against the #3 defense in the league (based on points per game) who by the way were coming off a shutout in the wildcard round. And as someone else pointed out, they did it while losing the time of possession battle 38 mins to 22.

 

Denver's defense is very good...they are perfectly capable of making life very difficult for the Pats offense. But I think when people handicap this game, it comes down to this...an elite offense (Pats) versus an elite defense (Broncos) on one side, a below average offense (Broncos) vs a good defense on the other. That tilts the odds towards the Pats in most peoples minds. Doesn't mean anything is a "lock" or that the Broncos can't win...it's just an objective handicapping of the two teams. My jaw won't be hitting the floor if the Broncos win this game.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Restored said:

Well statistically, Brady's numbers reflected that of a game manager during that stretch. In the same way people are attaching that label to Manning now.

 

And some of Manning's worst playoff performances (statistically speaking atleast) have also come in weather. We can't start attaching superlatives to stats however because then we'd be creating a whole other animal in evaluating both of them.

 

 

I understand that and that's why I'm saying that now that Manning is in basically the same position (manage the game and make plays when needed to win), people want to somehow discount it like Brady didn't do it for the playoff games his teams won.

Should be a good one!

 

 

I hear yah Restored and we agree on a few things and will have to agree to disagree on a few others.  I think folks are labeling Peyton as a game manager this season as for the most part the D has helped them a great deal this season in some of the teams wins and Peyton's number are down and frankly near the bottom. 

 

I think we just disagree on Brady's performance (regular season) '01-'04 in that I am not so sure I would describe someone in the top 5-10 in nearly all the categories as a game manager.  Surely, in 2001 when he was cutting his teeth in the league and was more on the "do not make a mistake" tour I can understand why some would think this, but after leading the league in TDs in 2002 and being near the top of the league through till '04 not sure if one can attached that label after 2001, although in the end its just a label.

 

As for the playoff performances, yes there was help from the other phases of the team, but I would like to reiterate a few things, just in case I was not clear/forgot to the first time.  Of the first 8 AFCs playoff games from '01 to '05, 6 of them were below freezing and two were in the 50's, '01 AFCCG (where he only played a half) and '05 divisional in Denver.   You and I both recognize that teams, and Peyton and Tom, may not have the best of numbers in cold weather, and given that 6/8 of his early games where in this type of weather, we just need to take that into consideration in qualifying some of the results when looking at them. 

 

Also, the Pats O did help and fill in when needed in those games in that run.  No not every game but enough games to keep the run going.  In the Oakland '01 game (where MVP Gannon only threw for 160 yards or so in the storm), Brady put up 10 points and 100 yards in the 4th qtr to tie the game and then won it in OT, with three scoring drives.  In the '03 SB against Carolina the pats had to put up 32 points to secure a SB victory in SB38 where the D yielded 4 TDs and a FG. 

 

Peyton played a solid game on Sunday, did not turn the ball over, and when fortune gave the Broncos a turnover by the D in the 4th, Peyton lead the Broncos on a 4th qtr drive (completing at least one 3rd down by the air) for a TD.  The fact that it was rushing TD and not a passing TD does not matter to me as I am more concerned about help leading the drive down field and not worried as much as how the TD is scored.

 

So yes that game was circa Pats '01-'04.  And certainly the Broncos could win again on Sunday in a similar fashion.   I think the only issue that might come up is if the D faulters and needs help like the 01-04 pats D did, will the Broncos O be able to come to the rescue and keep the run going this year.  We will see.        

  

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I would not touch this game with the feet of Rex Ryan.

 

My head says the Patriots roll with a smooth offense. But, on the flip side who the heck plays with the fire and passion vs. the Broncos that the Colts always do with Luck?

 

It's like the Colts with Luck LIVE to play Denver, it's odd. Nobody else at times in the AFC comes close to the same intensity we show vs. Denver.

 

My gut says the Broncos probably win being that it's at home and defensively they might get to Brady a few times.

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I just want a competitive game since this is the last time Manning & Brady go toe to toe in the NFL ever again. No, I have no proof of that as a concrete fact of course. It's just a feeling I have. I just wanna see Peyton finish strong. Will that happen? Who knows. There's just something to the fact that so many commentators are not picking the Broncos & treating Peyton like his last rites are being administered at his NFL funeral though. 

 

Usually, when experts stick a fork in a QB, the exact opposite happens just like when nobody gave the Bills a shot in the post season & they pulverized the NY Jets. Am I predicting a lopsided Denver victory? No, just sayin' that universal favoritism for a successful outcome on 1 side rarely works out or is anything but a cake walk. 

 

Split practice reps with Brock though Gary Kubiak this week. Trust me. Manning can start the game, but I want Osweiler prepared in reserves just in case 18 needs a 4th qtr reprieve. Not on knock on the 'Sheriff' I just wanna win the game by any means necessary' in Mile High. 

 

Destined to be an NFL Classic game for the ages either way. 

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2 hours ago, Jules said:

I would not touch this game with the feet of Rex Ryan.

 

My head says the Patriots roll with a smooth offense. But, on the flip side who the heck plays with the fire and passion vs. the Broncos that the Colts always do with Luck?

 

It's like the Colts with Luck LIVE to play Denver, it's odd. Nobody else at times in the AFC comes close to the same intensity we show vs. Denver.

 

My gut says the Broncos probably win being that it's at home and defensively they might get to Brady a few times.

For some reason, teams play some teams better than others. I cant really explain why we play Denver so well? Could have a lot to do with Peyton's play as well. He doesn't seem to have a killer instinct when he plays us, it could be because he played here for so long and he was playing injured last season in the Playoffs. Andrew also is maybe more motivated playing Peyton than most others to prove he was the right choice for us. We beat them but cant beat the Steelers to save our lives?? Even the Patriots have their teams they struggle against like the Ravens, which is tough to explain because we usually beat them too and the Patriots almost always struggle in Denver.

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Watching the Mike and Mike show and Greenberg said the only way he would take Denver is if someone gave him 9 points, Golic agreed. I will tell you what there is no why in heck they would bet anyone a significant of money and give 8.5 points and go with the Pats. I would take 8.5 points and bet anyone period. ESPN gets more comical for the moment. 9 points really guys, I am lmao at these guys so hard I spit my coffee out. If I called that show right now and told them you bet your paycheck vs mine but you have to give me 8.5 points those dudes would clam up and start stuttering. Go Broncos. Nobody has picked them yet on ESPN! 9 points lmao, they only beat KC by 7.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Watching the Mike and Mike show and Greenberg said the only way he would take Denver is if someone gave him 9 points, Golic agreed. I will tell you what there is no why in heck they would bet anyone a significant of money and give 8.5 points and go with the Pats. I would take 8.5 points and bet anyone period. ESPN gets more comical for the moment. 9 points really guys, I am lmao at these guys so hard I spit my coffee out. If I called that show right now and told them you bet your paycheck vs mine but you have to give me 8.5 points those dudes would clam up and start stuttering. Go Broncos. Nobody has picked them yet on ESPN! 9 points lmao

I know the last game between these teams means nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's probably factoring into a lot of these predictions as well. If you remember, the Pats were well on their way to a blowout in Denver without Edelman, without Amendola, and without Gronk in the 4th quarter. The muffed punch changed everything, and even with that huge swing in momentum, the Patriots were still in a spot to win the game until a couple of highly highly questionable calls went the other way and totally changed the game again. And even then it still took overtime. I think a lot of people feel that unless Peyton comes out and looks GOOD...not just 'ok'...but GOOD, then Denver is going to need a lot of help against this team that is, for all intents and purposes, a heck of a lot more healthy than last time they played. 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am going to take so much satisfaction watching everyone on Monday morning that says Denver has no chance when Denver wins. I may enjoy this more than when the Giants beat them in 2007.

 

You're setting yourself of up for HUGE potential letdown with this type of talk!!!

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2 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

I know the last game between these teams means nothing in the grand scheme of things, but it's probably factoring into a lot of these predictions as well. If you remember, the Pats were well on their way to a blowout in Denver without Edelman, without Amendola, and without Gronk in the 4th quarter. The muffed punch changed everything, and even with that huge swing in momentum, the Patriots were still in a spot to win the game until a couple of highly highly questionable calls went the other way and totally changed the game again. And even then it still took overtime. I think a lot of people feel that unless Peyton comes out and looks GOOD...not just 'ok'...but GOOD, then Denver is going to need a lot of help against this team that is, for all intents and purposes, a heck of a lot more healthy than last time they played. 

Denver is better with Peyton in this situation + he's healthy. If Brock was playing the Pats would win by 10-14 points.

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3 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

You're setting yourself of up for HUGE potential letdown with this type of talk!!!

Nah, If I am wrong I am wrong. I will say this if the Broncos do lose it's not like it's the Colts losing but because I have talked some trash and picked the Broncos to win it all and back up Peyton, of course I will be disappointed. I would be shocked if the Patriots won by more than 7 points if they win.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Denver is better with Peyton in this situation + he's healthy. If Brock was playing the Pats would win by 10-14 points.

 

Ah ok. So now you should understand where people are coming from when they are picking the Patriots without hesitation. I know you don't agree, but many people DO think that Brock gives the Broncos a better chance to win...many aren't on this 'Peyton Manning saved the Broncos' wagon...so with that understanding, the fact that you think it would be a blowout with Brock in there, well....thats why people feel the way they do.

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Just now, dynasty13 said:

 

Ah ok. So now you should understand where people are coming from when they are picking the Patriots without hesitation. I know you don't agree, but many people DO think that Brock gives the Broncos a better chance to win...many aren't on this 'Peyton Manning saved the Broncos' wagon...so with that understanding, the fact that you think it would be a blowout with Brock in there, well....thats why people feel the way they do.

I wouldn't call losing by 10 a blowout but I think Brock's inexperience would just kill the Broncos. I could see him turning it over at bad times etc.. With Brock the Pats would win 30-20 IMO, with Peyton Denver wins 27-24, JMO.

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12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nah, If I am wrong I am wrong. I will say this if the Broncos do lose it's not like it's the Colts losing but because I have talked some trash and picked the Broncos to win it all and back up Peyton, of course I will be disappointed. I would be shocked if the Patriots won by more than 7 points if they win.

It's not like it matters who comes out ofthe AFC, they'll likely be crushed by whoever comes out of the NFC.  Patriots or Broncos, doesn't matter, neither of them can match up with the fire power of those teams.

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7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I wouldn't call losing by 10 a blowout but I think Brock's inexperience would just kill the Broncos. I could see him turning it over at bad times etc.. With Brock the Pats would win 30-20 IMO, with Peyton Denver wins 27-24, JMO.

The interesting thing to watch in this game I think, is IF the Patriots go up early and that forced Peyton to throw more, does that lead to some turnovers? As a Patriots fan that's what I'm hoping for...if the Patriots can get up early then I like our chances. Years ago I would say the game is never over against Peyton no matter how ahead we may be...but now I think that if we force him to throw and get away from that run game a bit...I like our chances.

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