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Patriots favored over Broncos by 3.5 points


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15 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

I don't think that's true. In our eyes the narrative shifted and stayed years ago. But just look at how people are talking about the game here. Patriots fans are talking about beating the Broncos to go to the Superbowl, Peyton/Colts fans are talking about beating Brady so that Peyton has a statistical edge. That's the entire mentality of this game. 

 

To be totally honest...if Peyton goes on to win the Superbowl this year, it's right up there with Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson in terms of how he earned it. The big bash on those guys is that they had great defenses and they didn't have to do anything but not screw up to win the title. This team won in spite of his play for the first half of the season, then he stubbed his toe and sat out for the 2nd half, only to come back at the end and play very average football. A 2nd ring would be huge for his legacy, and it will be hurt should he lose. WIth this defense, at home, in what...50 degree sun? All he has to do is not * up, and they should win.

 

Of course that's going to be the views of Patriots fans but that doesn't make it accurate. Spend some time on some Patriots boards and a lot of them are wanting this game because it is Manning V. Brady again.

 

No it's not. If anything, this vindicates his career in terms of how he didn't always have the complete team around him like Brady did. If we're discounting this run, you have to examine Brady's runs as well. Bledsoe playing significantly in the AFC Championship game. The Tuck Rule. Vinny's GW field goals. You can't nitpick and not have it go both ways. After carrying teams to the postseason for so many years, it'd only seem fitting that a team would finally carry its share on the way to a final Super Bowl for him. Brady has played plenty of average football during his playoff runs as well. Manning is in a prime spot. His legacy is already filled out. All this run will do is add to it. Especially considering he's not even the favorite to win. Brady's legacy has more at stake here. He clearly has the health and better offense on his side. Manning wins and he ends his career with more wins in the playoffs vs. Brady.

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19 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

 

 

To be totally honest...if Peyton goes on to win the Superbowl this year, it's right up there with Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson in terms of how he earned it.

 

 This team won in spite of his play for the first half of the season, then he stubbed his toe and sat out for the 2nd half, only to come back at the end and play very average football. A 2nd ring would be huge for his legacy, and it will be hurt should he lose. WIth this defense, at home, in what...50 degree sun? All he has to do is not * up, and they should win.

stubbed his toe....??? :scratch:     you're hilarious haha   and cynical.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

Of course that's going to be the views of Patriots fans but that doesn't make it accurate. Spend some time on some Patriots boards and a lot of them are wanting this game because it is Manning V. Brady again.

 

No it's not. If anything, this vindicates his career in terms of how he didn't always have the complete team around him like Brady did. If we're discounting this run, you have to examine Brady's runs as well. After carrying teams to the postseason for so many years, it'd only seem fitting that a team would finally carry its share on the way to a final Super Bowl for him. Brady has played plenty of average football during his playoff runs as well. Manning is in a prime spot. His legacy is already filled out. All this run will do is add to it. Especially considering he's not even the favorite to win. Brady's legacy has more at stake here. He clearly has the health and better offense on his side. Manning wins and he ends his career with more wins in the playoffs vs. Brady.

Brady did play some average football during playoff runs, you're right. However, in those instances, the team didn't go on to win the Superbowl. I'm talking about IF Peyton goes on to win, this has been a forgettable, forgettable season for him in terms of his play and it may show that he was just 'along for the ride'. 

 

In terms of both of their legacies, the home team has always won these matchups....so regardless of who is favored, the Broncos should win...at home...as the #1 seed. Brady's legacy is the one that can't be hurt here...assuming he doesn't come out and throw 4 picks and not give his team a chance. Hey, the Broncos may win...but Peyton's going to have to play a LOT better than he has if he wants to beat this team.

 

It's not worth a long debate, I'm just responding to those that are already taking their Peyton victory lap because he apparently came back and 'saved the Broncos'...and those who think we're only saying we have a better chance against him because we are scared of possibly losing to him. That's hogwash. Should be a great game!

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I'm going to want to know the excuses that Patriots fans will say if they lose this one. After reading all of this crap it seems as if the Patriots have already won and are celebrating. With that said, I hope the Broncos punch them straight in the mouth and send them packing.

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2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

I'm going to want to know the excuses that Patriots fans will say if they lose this one. After reading all of this crap it seems as if the Patriots have already won and are celebrating. With that said, I hope the Broncos punch them straight in the mouth and send them packing.

 

Who celebrated? The only one I've seen doing that is BestEver2006 for being 'vindicated' with his Manning claims. Patriots fans haven't guaranteed anything.

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8 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

Brady did play some average football during playoff runs, you're right. However, in those instances, the team didn't go on to win the Superbowl. I'm talking about IF Peyton goes on to win, this has been a forgettable, forgettable season for him in terms of his play and it may show that he was just 'along for the ride'. 

 

In terms of both of their legacies, the home team has always won these matchups....so regardless of who is favored, the Broncos should win...at home...as the #1 seed. Brady's legacy is the one that can't be hurt here...assuming he doesn't come out and throw 4 picks and not give his team a chance. Hey, the Broncos may win...but Peyton's going to have to play a LOT better than he has if he wants to beat this team.

 

It's not worth a long debate, I'm just responding to those that are already taking their Peyton victory lap because he apparently came back and 'saved the Broncos'...and those who think we're only saying we have a better chance against him because we are scared of possibly losing to him. That's hogwash. Should be a great game!

 

In 2001, Brady did look pretty average and they won the Super Bowl. Brady fans want to deny that his defense didn't lead the way for those Super Bowl runs but clearly, they did. What Manning will do here is really no different. Manning's stats may have been mediocre to down right bad at times this year, but the offense clearly was rejuvenated by his return. His mind is the most valuable part of his game now and that cannot be overlooked as him just being along for the ride.

 

They shouldn't win if they aren't favored. It's as simple as that. Brady has the better offense and is clearly in a better position health wise. Brady's legacy can take a hit here but the full hit wouldn't come unless Manning finishes the deal and wins the Super Bowl. Manning played fine against the Steelers but when your receivers have 9 drops, it'll make your numbers look pretty pedestrian. Don't expect the same this coming Sunday.

 

I agree there's too many illogical narratives going on.

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8 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Who celebrated? The only one I've seen doing that is BestEver2006 for being 'vindicated' with his Manning claims. Patriots fans haven't guaranteed anything.

C'mon, don't play stupid here. We can all read your posts. You're excited that they get to play Peyton Manning because he apparently doesn't scare anyone anymore and that he's not playing his best ball. That is basically celebrating. Not saying that you shouldn't root for your team but to act like you've got an easy win here is something else. Broncos are a fantastic TEAM, even with Peyton Manning and so are the Patriots. It's a TEAM game, remember that before singling out Peyton Manning, because there's 10 other guys on the field besides him.

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17 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

 

You think you know what Patriots fans think, but you really couldn't be more wrong. It's no different than what we said back in week 12 before playing the Broncos. Peyton Manning doesn't scare us. Stats aside, he just hasn't looked good. You make it sound like the Broncos were a rudderless ship losing left and right and then Peyton showed up and saved them and now we want no part of him. Nope, not the case.

 

Most of us don't care about the rivalry anymore. In our eyes, it's over. It's been over. If he beats us he beats us, but really we just want to go to another Superbowl. That's it. We welcome the opportunity to go into a place that we have struggled at and try to make that happen, but in no way are we 'covering up' our fears and our non-existent reluctance to face the supposed buzz-saw that is the Denver Broncos by saying we want to face Peyton. In all honestly though, Peyton Manning fans should be the ones with a little hesitation here. If he loses...at home...against the Patriots...and god forbid he looks bad doing it, well that does way way way more harm to his legacy and the way people view he and Tom in whatever debate it left. 

 

The truth is that Peyton fans are treating this like one last chance to close the gap between the two in terms of how people perceive them. But Patriots fans just don't care.

I would amplify this sentiment further by saying that I am hoping....scratch that...I'm actually pretty certain....that Bill is spending time prepping for Osweiller this week...because it won't surprise me one bit if he ends up in the game and I frankly think that would give Denver a better shot.

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1 hour ago, Bad Morty said:

I would amplify this sentiment further by saying that I am hoping....scratch that...I'm actually pretty certain....that Bill is spending time prepping for Osweiller this week...because it won't surprise me one bit if he ends up in the game and I frankly think that would give Denver a better shot.

 

I doubt it happens at this stage i.e. Brock playing. If Peyton's last rodeo ends with a loss to Brady, no shame in that. If Peyton had not gotten a chance to at least play in the playoffs, I felt he would be back one more year. Now, I feel this is it. He got to taste a playoff victory, nothing more he can do to change opinions in the eyes of non-Peyton fans, IMO. Whether he goes to the SB or not, I still think this is his last run. 

 

I am fine with it, as someone rooting for Peyton but all good things come to an end. Unless the Broncos play lights out, I do not see them beating the Panthers or Cardinals, even if they somehow get to the SB. Brady has only one way to go, and that is up in NFL History echelons. Peyton can only make a small dent at this point in his career, IMO. This would be the first time, as a fan in years, that I have come to terms with it and would be looking at this AFCCG as just a last chapter in the Peyton-Brady rivalry and enjoy the game however it goes.

 

Now, if that Brady guy at 38 throws like he is 28 or 29 for a few more years, I'd definitely join any bandwagon for HGH allegations against him, j/k :)

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2 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

 

 All he has to do is not * up, and they should win.

I disagree.  The pats seem to have the ability to win in spite of everything going wrong with them.  Their average players just seem to always be in the perfect position to make plays.  Now this could be because of belichick and patricia on defense, and brady and belichick on offense.  Overall, Belichick always has the best gameplan against every team.  Even with Manning at his best two years ago, this game would still be a difficult game for the Broncos.  I see it more so of a 60-40 game for the patriots.

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15 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Do you think the refs would allow Denver to hit Brady late and hard as they did Luck ? I thought they were going to start using lead pipes.

 

I hate the refs all season, every ref team calls differently

 

every ref team seems to have different interpretation of a rule , like a defenseless player or a catch

 

there is no consistency and to me some games results were definitely the result of poor calls in key situations

 

I love when they ask Mike Pierra ( sp ) is asked what he thinks of a call being reviewed, there were many , not a high % though that he thought would be reversed & weren't , or upheld and were reversed

 

Or if something not called and not reviewed and he's asked his opinion and he cant explain why something wasnt called

 

at times when he does explain things refs call is answers though much netter than thev refs are also so hard to follow, at least to me, not always , but enough times to make it noticeable

 

I'd swear I know what a catch is when i see it , but it doesnt jive with the refs, and when they show the same thing from 2 games on a particular call as an example where in 1 game iis called 1 way & u hardly see anything wrong and in other game  a more blatant  violation of what was called ion first game isnt called at all 

 

One is left just scraching ones head

 

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1 minute ago, bayone said:

 

I hate the refs all season, every ref team calls differently

 

every ref team seems to have different interpretation of a rule , like a defenseless player or a catch

 

there is no consistency and to me some games results were definitely the result of poor calls in key situations

 

I love when they ask Mike Pierra ( sp ) is asked what he thinks of a call being reviewed, there were many , not a high % though that he thought would be reversed & weren't , or upheld and were reversed

 

Or if something not called and not reviewed and he's asked his opinion and he cant explain why something wasnt called

 

at times when he does explain things refs call is answers though much netter than thev refs are also so hard to follow, at least to me, not always , but enough times to make it noticeable

 

I'd swear I know what a catch is when i see it , but it doesnt jive with the refs, and when they show the same thing from 2 games on a particular call as an example where in 1 game iis called 1 way & u hardly see anything wrong and in other game  a more blatant  violation of what was called ion first game isnt called at all 

 

One is left just scraching ones head

 

 

I hear ya. It's really sad that you can probably look at any game that is close and point to a questionable call here or there that would have changed the result. I guess you have to live with it and just say in the end , it will all even out ? My point was in that particular game , the refs did not at all protect Andrew Luck. If that were Brady , he would have stopped that game multiple times to whine and complain to the officials. Bottom line is no way he would ever get brutalized like that . So many hits a tad late and way harder than they needed to be.

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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

I doubt it happens at this stage i.e. Brock playing. If Peyton's last rodeo ends with a loss to Brady, no shame in that. If Peyton had not gotten a chance to at least play in the playoffs, I felt he would be back one more year. Now, I feel this is it. He got to taste a playoff victory, nothing more he can do to change opinions in the eyes of non-Peyton fans, IMO. Whether he goes to the SB or not, I still think this is his last run. 

 

I am fine with it, as someone rooting for Peyton but all good things come to an end. Unless the Broncos play lights out, I do not see them beating the Panthers or Cardinals, even if they somehow get to the SB. Brady has only one way to go, and that is up in NFL History echelons. Peyton can only make a small dent at this point in his career, IMO. This would be the first time, as a fan in years, that I have come to terms with it and would be looking at this AFCCG as just a last chapter in the Peyton-Brady rivalry and enjoy the game however it goes.

 

Now, if that Brady guy at 38 throws like he is 28 or 29 for a few more years, I'd definitely join any bandwagon for HGH allegations against him, j/k :)

 

have to agree, last Rodeo, lets enjoy it

 

another injury just heard, may have been stated before Know CHris Harris will, play again with 1 arm due to shoulder, know mayo on IR'

 

now just heard Broncos kick & punt returner, omar bolden , who was out for most of year and first activated last game b, had a runback of 40+ yards, 10 minutes later while sitting at bench got pain  in knee and has torn PCL and on IR, calling it a non contact injury

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Just now, dw49 said:

 

I hear ya. It's really sad that you can probably look at any game that is close and point to a questionable call here or there that would have changed the result. I guess you have to live with it and just say in the end , it will all even out ? My point was in that particular game , the refs did not at all protect Andrew Luck. If that were Brady , he would have stopped that game multiple times to whine and complain to the officials. Bottom line is no way he would ever get brutalized like that . So many hits a tad late and way harder than they needed to be.

 

agreed

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3 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

 

I don't think that's true. In our eyes the narrative shifted and stayed years ago. But just look at how people are talking about the game here. Patriots fans are talking about beating the Broncos to go to the Superbowl, Peyton/Colts fans are talking about beating Brady so that Peyton has a statistical edge. That's the entire mentality of this game. 

 

To be totally honest...if Peyton goes on to win the Superbowl this year, it's right up there with Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson in terms of how he earned it. The big bash on those guys is that they had great defenses and they didn't have to do anything but not screw up to win the title. This team won in spite of his play for the first half of the season, then he stubbed his toe and sat out for the 2nd half, only to come back at the end and play very average football. A 2nd ring would be huge for his legacy, and it will be hurt should he lose. WIth this defense, at home, in what...50 degree sun? All he has to do is not * up, and they should win.

Clearly you have no idea what plantar fascititis is or how painful it can be

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3 hours ago, Restored said:

 

Of course that's going to be the views of Patriots fans but that doesn't make it accurate. Spend some time on some Patriots boards and a lot of them are wanting this game because it is Manning V. Brady again.

 

No it's not. If anything, this vindicates his career in terms of how he didn't always have the complete team around him like Brady did. If we're discounting this run, you have to examine Brady's runs as well. Bledsoe playing significantly in the AFC Championship game. The Tuck Rule. Vinny's GW field goals. You can't nitpick and not have it go both ways. After carrying teams to the postseason for so many years, it'd only seem fitting that a team would finally carry its share on the way to a final Super Bowl for him. Brady has played plenty of average football during his playoff runs as well. Manning is in a prime spot. His legacy is already filled out. All this run will do is add to it. Especially considering he's not even the favorite to win. Brady's legacy has more at stake here. He clearly has the health and better offense on his side. Manning wins and he ends his career with more wins in the playoffs vs. Brady.

This Dynasty dude saying if Peyton wins, it is like Dilfer, LMAO. If Dilfer JR beats Tom that will really be embarrassing. Peyton played Good and smart last week and made some good throws. Pats fans in general are so stuck up and obnoxious that they just think they have the only team that is any good. I cant wait for Peyton and Denver to wipe this team out.

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10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Clearly you have no idea what plantar fascititis is or how painful it can be

 

 

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This Dynasty dude saying if Peyton wins, it is like Dilfer, LMAO. If Dilfer JR beats Tom that will really be embarrassing. Peyton played Good and smart last week and made some good throws. Pats fans in general are so stuck up and obnoxious that they just think they have the only team that is any good. I cant wait for Peyton and Denver to wipe this team out.

 

Medically speaking and treating enough of them , ( though years back, still take CME credits with active license though cant practice due to disabilities) he wont be better till way after the season, Broncos happy he lasted the entire game as that was a question mark, now without a weeks rest its still a question mark

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1 minute ago, bayone said:

 

 

 

Medically speaking and treating enough of them he wont be better till way after the season, Broncos happy he lasted the entire game as that was a question mark, now without a weeks rest its still a question mark

Yeah, we will have to see as the game goes on. I am sure he isn't 100% as you would know but it's still Peyton. If that Denver Defense fails me I am going to be really disappointed. They owe Peyton 1 great game when it counts as Peyton carried them the last 3 seasons.

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32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This Dynasty dude saying if Peyton wins, it is like Dilfer, LMAO. If Dilfer JR beats Tom that will really be embarrassing. Peyton played Good and smart last week and made some good throws. Pats fans in general are so stuck up and obnoxious that they just think they have the only team that is any good. I cant wait for Peyton and Denver to wipe this team out.

 

Just a little perspective here for all.

 

Brady : 30 Playoff games. 55 TDs. 26 INTs. So yeah, he's got 4 rings with the help of his defenses & FG kickers. But, Brady is also vulnerable. Very vulnerable at times in the Playoffs.

 

If Denver plays close to mistake-free football & Peyton is just 80% on, Broncos can beat New England, and have a very good-to-great chance of advancing to SB 50.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This Dynasty dude saying if Peyton wins, it is like Dilfer, LMAO. If Dilfer JR beats Tom that will really be embarrassing. Peyton played Good and smart last week and made some good throws. Pats fans in general are so stuck up and obnoxious that they just think they have the only team that is any good. I cant wait for Peyton and Denver to wipe this team out.

 

Never said anything about the Patriots being the only team that is good. I'm simply saying that your love for Peyton has blinded you a bit from how he has actually looked. As I've said in every one of my posts, he may beat us, the Broncos may win, but he has NOT looked good and I certainly don't think that he has been the difference maker for this Broncos team the way you'd have us believe based on your cheerleading and your constant reminders that you 'called this'. 

 

Of course no one knows how this will end. I have not guaranteed anything, I have not spoken in absolutes. I've only said that I am more confident because of how Peyton has looked and that he doesn't scare me. Does that mean he is incapable? That the Broncos have no chance? No, of course not. But I'm also not the one saying things like "I cant wait for Peyton to wipe this team out"....that makes it sound more like YOU are the one making proclamations about how the game will go. 

 

You're very confident in your-....errr....I mean, Denver's team...and that's good. No one will tell you not to be. They've made it this far for a reason. I'm just not willing to say that Peyton Manning has been that reason, and I feel like he is more 'along for the ride' (Dilfer, Johnson, etc.) than he is playing a big role in getting them here.

 

That may all change Sunday, i'll be the first to admit it...but really, you can't blame me for liking the Patriots chances. He just hasn't looked good.

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18 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

That may all change Sunday, i'll be the first to admit it...but really, you can't blame me for liking the Patriots chances. He just hasn't looked good.

 

He's fine. There's more than just him on that football team just in case you didn't realize that.

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26 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Never said anything about the Patriots being the only team that is good. I'm simply saying that your love for Peyton has blinded you a bit from how he has actually looked. As I've said in every one of my posts, he may beat us, the Broncos may win, but he has NOT looked good and I certainly don't think that he has been the difference maker for this Broncos team the way you'd have us believe based on your cheerleading and your constant reminders that you 'called this'. 

 

Of course no one knows how this will end. I have not guaranteed anything, I have not spoken in absolutes. I've only said that I am more confident because of how Peyton has looked and that he doesn't scare me. Does that mean he is incapable? That the Broncos have no chance? No, of course not. But I'm also not the one saying things like "I cant wait for Peyton to wipe this team out"....that makes it sound more like YOU are the one making proclamations about how the game will go. 

 

You're very confident in your-....errr....I mean, Denver's team...and that's good. No one will tell you not to be. They've made it this far for a reason. I'm just not willing to say that Peyton Manning has been that reason, and I feel like he is more 'along for the ride' (Dilfer, Johnson, etc.) than he is playing a big role in getting them here.

 

That may all change Sunday, i'll be the first to admit it...but really, you can't blame me for liking the Patriots chances. He just hasn't looked good.

Brady's numbers looked pretty Dilfer-esque during these two SB runs too do they not?

 

Screen Shot 2016-01-20 at 2.52.33 PM.png

Screen Shot 2016-01-20 at 2.53.19 PM.png

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31 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Never said anything about the Patriots being the only team that is good. I'm simply saying that your love for Peyton has blinded you a bit from how he has actually looked. As I've said in every one of my posts, he may beat us, the Broncos may win, but he has NOT looked good and I certainly don't think that he has been the difference maker for this Broncos team the way you'd have us believe based on your cheerleading and your constant reminders that you 'called this'. 

 

Of course no one knows how this will end. I have not guaranteed anything, I have not spoken in absolutes. I've only said that I am more confident because of how Peyton has looked and that he doesn't scare me. Does that mean he is incapable? That the Broncos have no chance? No, of course not. But I'm also not the one saying things like "I cant wait for Peyton to wipe this team out"....that makes it sound more like YOU are the one making proclamations about how the game will go. 

 

You're very confident in your-....errr....I mean, Denver's team...and that's good. No one will tell you not to be. They've made it this far for a reason. I'm just not willing to say that Peyton Manning has been that reason, and I feel like he is more 'along for the ride' (Dilfer, Johnson, etc.) than he is playing a big role in getting them here.

 

That may all change Sunday, i'll be the first to admit it...but really, you can't blame me for liking the Patriots chances. He just hasn't looked good.

Ummmm.  Not so sure.  He was out for an extended period.  Came back in the second half of a toss-up, much-needed game, and made all the right plays to secure the win.  After two more weeks of rest, he comes back and makes all the right calls and plays to keep his team within striking distance until the needed turnover comes.  He then drives his team downfield, making some good throws and adjustments at the line, and leads the team to the winning score...against a team no one wanted to take on. I think - all things considered - he has looked just fine. 

 

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1 hour ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Never said anything about the Patriots being the only team that is good. I'm simply saying that your love for Peyton has blinded you a bit from how he has actually looked. As I've said in every one of my posts, he may beat us, the Broncos may win, but he has NOT looked good and I certainly don't think that he has been the difference maker for this Broncos team the way you'd have us believe based on your cheerleading and your constant reminders that you 'called this'. 

 

Of course no one knows how this will end. I have not guaranteed anything, I have not spoken in absolutes. I've only said that I am more confident because of how Peyton has looked and that he doesn't scare me. Does that mean he is incapable? That the Broncos have no chance? No, of course not. But I'm also not the one saying things like "I cant wait for Peyton to wipe this team out"....that makes it sound more like YOU are the one making proclamations about how the game will go. 

 

You're very confident in your-....errr....I mean, Denver's team...and that's good. No one will tell you not to be. They've made it this far for a reason. I'm just not willing to say that Peyton Manning has been that reason, and I feel like he is more 'along for the ride' (Dilfer, Johnson, etc.) than he is playing a big role in getting them here.

 

That may all change Sunday, i'll be the first to admit it...but really, you can't blame me for liking the Patriots chances. He just hasn't looked good.

I told you so, just kidding but I have said all a long Denver would win the SB. Hey if your Patriots win on Sunday you can come back in here and rub it in. You deserve that right and I will say I am wrong. I have no problem with that. I am a man of my word. I'll be here. I was so confident that Denver would beat the Packers I even bet a person in here my signature to his that I would change it if Denver lost. I back up my talk. Hey it is all in fun, I am glad you are here posting so at least I have a Pats here to debate with. You also come here in enemy territory to express your views and support your team so I respect that. I am a Colts fan but I do love Peyton as well because he was the Colts best player in franchise history. So I still root for him with Indy being out of it.

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49 minutes ago, Restored said:

Brady's numbers looked pretty Dilfer-esque during these two SB runs too do they not?

 

Screen Shot 2016-01-20 at 2.52.33 PM.png

Screen Shot 2016-01-20 at 2.53.19 PM.png

 

Yup, they certainly do.

 

But then again, I haven't once said anything about statistics. I never once made the claim that Brady's were better or worse. All I've said is that Peyton Manning hasn't looked good and therefor he doesn't scare me. What's wrong with that? It's my opinion based on how he's looked. People say his statistics would be better if his receivers didn't drop the ball so often, I say they dropped the ball because it looks like he's throwing wobbling duds. It doesn't matter who is right, the simple fact is that I don't have to fear him, and his play has given me no reason to think the Patriots can't go into Denver and win. 

 

In those two years you posted though , Brady ended up being outstanding in the Superbowl...especially in 2003. Which is exactly why I keep saying we'll see what happens. The Broncos may win on Sunday and Peyton may play great in the Superbowl. But right now, Peyton Manning hasn't been the difference maker that many are trying so hard to convince everyone that he is...and for some reason, I'm not allowed to say it. 

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35 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I told you so, just kidding but I have said all a long Denver would win the SB. Hey if your Patriots win on Sunday you can come back in here and rub it in. You deserve that right and I will say I am wrong. I have no problem with that. I am a man of my word. I'll be here. I was so confident that Denver would beat the Packers I even bet a person in here my signature to his that I would change it if Denver lost. I back up my talk. Hey it is all in fun, I am glad you are here posting so at least I have a Pats here to debate with. You also come here in enemy territory to express your views and support your team so I respect that. I am a Colts fan but I do love Peyton as well because he was the Colts best player in franchise history. So I still root for him with Indy being out of it.

 

I have zero desire to 'rub it it' at all. That's not what I'm about and besided, this isn't even a Bronco forum, who would I rub it in to??? ;)

 

I believe the Patriots will win and I am more confident going into this game than I was in say, 2013 for example. And much of that stems from how Peyton has looked since coming back. I am not bragging, I am not saying Denver has no chance...I'm simply giving my prediction. This has remained civil and it's been fun to discuss...it should be a great game Sunday!

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I haven't posted here in quite a while, but I do browse quite often to see what you guys have to say. 

I think this will be a very tough game for both teams and it won't be a cakewalk like so many pats fans love to believe. They have flooded our boards and all I want is for the Broncos to go out and smack the pats in the mouth

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15 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Yup, they certainly do.

 

But then again, I haven't once said anything about statistics. I never once made the claim that Brady's were better or worse. All I've said is that Peyton Manning hasn't looked good and therefor he doesn't scare me. What's wrong with that? It's my opinion based on how he's looked. People say his statistics would be better if his receivers didn't drop the ball so often, I say they dropped the ball because it looks like he's throwing wobbling duds. It doesn't matter who is right, the simple fact is that I don't have to fear him, and his play has given me no reason to think the Patriots can't go into Denver and win. 

 

In those two years you posted though , Brady ended up being outstanding in the Superbowl...especially in 2003. Which is exactly why I keep saying we'll see what happens. The Broncos may win on Sunday and Peyton may play great in the Superbowl. But right now, Peyton Manning hasn't been the difference maker that many are trying so hard to convince everyone that he is...and for some reason, I'm not allowed to say it. 

 

You've said that Manning is "along for the ride" based on his play and that if the Broncos win the whole thing, it'll be because of that, implying that they are winning in spite of him. My point in showing those stats is that the Patriots have largely done the same thing with Brady in his career. Receivers dropping wobbly passes is not an excuse. They are paid professionals. It doesn't matter if they are perfect spirals or the most wobbly of passes. They need to be caught. Broncos WR's actually had problems catching Brock's "perfect" passes too.

 

1 game out of 6 isn't exactly inspiring playoff performance. But Manning has been the difference maker. Statstically he may not be putting up the kind of numbers to inspire that notion, but clearly he has.

 

All I'm saying is, you can't discount this run Manning is on due to him not putting up insane numbers. Doing so would require you to say the same thing about Brady's past playoff performances if you wanted to stay logically consistent.

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13 minutes ago, VDB said:

I haven't posted here in quite a while, but I do browse quite often to see what you guys have to say. 

I think this will be a very tough game for both teams and it won't be a cakewalk like so many pats fans love to believe. They have flooded our boards and all I want is for the Broncos to go out and smack the pats in the mouth

Go Broncos. I picked them to win the SB before the season started and I am a Truediehard Colts fan but just felt the Broncos and Pats both still had better teams coming into this season. Yes my Colts beat the Broncos last season in the Playoffs but Peyton was playing injured, I'll take it and it gave us a Final 4 berth but I could tell Peyton wasn't right. To Andrew's credit he did Good against the Broncos Defense which helped. I will always root for Peyton unless he plays the Colts. Just how my DNA is made up. Peyton has done a ton for our organization and city. We would not have a team here, let me repeat - we would not have a team here today if we hadn't drafted Peyton. Because of our success and winning a SB with him, it enabled us many options. Had we drafted Leaf instead, there would be no team here IMO.

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1 minute ago, Restored said:

 

You've said that Manning is "along for the ride" based on his play and that if the Broncos win the whole thing, it'll be because of that, implying that they are winning in spite of him. My point in showing those stats is that the Patriots have largely done the same thing with Brady in his career. Receivers dropping wobbly passes is not an excuse. They are paid professionals. It doesn't matter if they are perfect spirals or the most wobbly of passes. They need to be caught. Broncos WR's actually had problems catching Brock's "perfect" passes too.

 

1 game out of 6 isn't exactly inspiring playoff performance. But Manning has been the difference maker. Statstically he may not be putting up the kind of numbers to inspire that notion, but clearly he has.

 

All I'm saying is, you can't discount this run Manning is on due to him not putting up insane numbers. Doing so would require you to say the same thing about Brady's past playoff performances if you wanted to stay logically consistent.

 

Can I just ask what 'run' you are talking about Peyton Manning being on? 

 

For the first 9 games of the season, I would say that absolutely the Denver Broncos were winning in spite of him. Even the biggest of Peyton Manning supporters have to agree with that assessment. It's just not even a question. He has since come back and gone 5 for 9 for 69 yards against the 4-win Chargers, and a respectable 21 for 37 for 222 yards against the Steelers. 

 

That's a total of 26-46 for 231 yards and zero touchdowns. 

 

As I've said, that's fine....I just don't see how anyone can say that he came back and 'saved' the Broncos...that he came back and has played a big role in their success.

 

What run is he on?

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1 hour ago, Restored said:

Brady's numbers looked pretty Dilfer-esque during these two SB runs too do they not?

 

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Screen Shot 2016-01-20 at 2.53.19 PM.png

 

Brady numbers were not as bad as some like to make out.  During 2001-2004, Brady was in the top ten and top 5 in many of the traditional QB categories, yards, completions, attempts, comp %, int %, TDs, passer rating, etc.   He lead the league in passing TDs in 2002 and yards in 2005 (one year later).   He lead the league in GWD in 2001 with 5 and had 7 in 2003. 

 

He was the offensive player of the week 6 times in that period, while Manning, who many consider was more productive during that period, was just one more at 7.  In 2001 Brady had a higher passer rating than Manning.  And so on.    

 

So he was not chump change nor Trent Dilfer who career he has more ints than TDs.

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Just now, dynasty13 said:

 

Can I just ask what 'run' you are talking about Peyton Manning being on? 

 

For the first 9 games of the season, I would say that absolutely the Denver Broncos were winning in spite of him. Even the biggest of Peyton Manning supporters have to agree with that assessment. It's just not even a question. He has since come back and gone 5 for 9 for 69 yards against the 4-win Chargers, and a respectable 21 for 37 for 222 yards against the Steelers. 

 

That's a total of 26-46 for 231 yards and zero touchdowns. 

 

As I've said, that's fine....I just don't see how anyone can say that he came back and 'saved' the Broncos...that he came back and has played a big role in their success.

 

What run is he on?

 

Playoff run. If he beats Brady and wins the Super Bowl, that's considered a run. If he does that, you cannot come back and say it was in spite of him without saying the exact same thing about Brady's past playoff runs.

 

Yes, Manning was hurt and not playing well the 9 games he played in this year.

 

But he has rejuvenated that offense and brought a level of consistency back. Manning is simply the better fit for the offense right now.

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13 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

Brady numbers were not as bad as some like to make out.  During 2001-2004, Brady was in the top ten and top 5 in many of the traditional QB categories, yards, completions, attempts, comp %, int %, TDs, passer rating, etc.   He lead the league in passing TDs in 2002 and yards in 2005 (one year later).   He lead the league in GWD in 2001 with 5 and had 7 in 2003. 

 

He was the offensive player of the week 6 times in that period, while Manning, who many consider was more productive during that period, was just one more at 7.  In 2001 Brady had a higher passer rating than Manning.  And so on.    

 

So he was not chump change nor Trent Dilfer who career he has more ints than TDs.

 

Interesting that you use regular season numbers to back up Brady's mediocre playoff stats. You really don't want to go down this path of who was the statistically better quarterback. You say "so on" like Brady had so many instances of being statistically better than Manning but that's simply not factual. That's something you and I both know isn't true so don't go there unless you want to be forced to retreat to playoff wins like the countless other Patriots/Brady fans do.

 

My whole point is to show that Manning's playoff performance (last week and so forth if it continues), cannot be discounted simply because he's not putting up amazing numbers. Brady himself has had playoff runs with less than stellar stats as well.

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3 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

Playoff run. If he beats Brady and wins the Super Bowl, that's considered a run. If he does that, you cannot come back and say it was in spite of him without saying the exact same thing about Brady's past playoff runs.

 

Unless of course, he does exactly what he has in his 2 games back and looks mediocre while throwing for zero touchdowns. 

 

I don't know how many times I can say that he's certainly capable, I just haven't seen anything since he's been back that leads me to believe that he's anything other than just along for the ride. 

 

I'll say it one more time anyway, just in case: We will wait and see. He may win on Sunday and go on to play a great game in the Superbowl. But right now, I wouldn't be so quick to make the claim that he's been any better than 'just fine'.

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1 minute ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Unless of course, he does exactly what he has in his 2 games back and looks mediocre while throwing for zero touchdowns. 

 

I don't know how many times I can say that he's certainly capable, I just haven't seen anything since he's been back that leads me to believe that he's anything other than just along for the ride. 

 

I'll say it one more time anyway, just in case: We will wait and see. He may win on Sunday and go on to play a great game in the Superbowl. But right now, I wouldn't be so quick to make the claim that he's been any better than 'just fine'.

 

If he does do that, and wins the Super Bowl, you need to come back and say the same thing about Brady's playoff runs as well. But you and I both know that won't happen.

 

Manning doesn't need to play great to win the Super Bowl so it doesn't really matter. He has the team around him to do the heavy lifting. Much like how Brady had during his Super Bowl runs.

 

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6 hours ago, Restored said:

 

In 2001, Brady did look pretty average and they won the Super Bowl. Brady fans want to deny that his defense didn't lead the way for those Super Bowl runs but clearly, they did. What Manning will do here is really no different. Manning's stats may have been mediocre to down right bad at times this year, but the offense clearly was rejuvenated by his return. His mind is the most valuable part of his game now and that cannot be overlooked as him just being along for the ride.

 

They shouldn't win if they aren't favored. It's as simple as that. Brady has the better offense and is clearly in a better position health wise. Brady's legacy can take a hit here but the full hit wouldn't come unless Manning finishes the deal and wins the Super Bowl. Manning played fine against the Steelers but when your receivers have 9 drops, it'll make your numbers look pretty pedestrian. Don't expect the same this coming Sunday.

 

I agree there's too many illogical narratives going on.

 

Yes the D did help out in 2001, as did Bledsoe in the AFCCG, no argument from this quarter.  The D also helped out in 2003 and 2004.  But at the same time there were games in which the offense needed to win the game. 

 

I think the bigger picture for me regarding Brady and Pats D of the early 2000s and the "championship" defense of the same time period is how we won those rings and how Brady has helped the Pats from 2005-2014.

 

Without going into long details the Pats were a few bounces away from losing to Oak in '01 and Tenn '03 on one hand but on the other hand were a bounce or two away from winning in '07, '11 and even '06.   Had those bounces gone the other way in those years, the pats do not win in '01 and '03, but win in '07 and '11, so one would have wins in '01, '07, '11 and '14, and the narrative of the '01-'04 championship D would be different as it only has one win and wins in '07, and '11 and '14 will look more like Brady is more behind the victory.

 

The bottom line of my point is that agreed the pats had a solid D in the early 2000s, but from a standpoint of getting a team in position to win a ring and let lady luck take over Brady has been to that table more than just 01-04.  And its that body of work that I look at when thinking of Brady.   Bounces that are for the most part out of ones control can distribute the wins they way they fell.   Its the doing what is necessary to be in position to win that one can look at and Brady has done that more from '01 to '14 than any other player in the NFL imo.

 

Regarding Manning, no he has not played well and whether it is due to age or injury or both, it has and will happen to all players, so no shame in that regard.   But one has to admit that Denver has been blessed in many games this year in its wins and had a backup QB that could hold serve which Manning was recovering.

 

We still do not know what we will get out of Manning on Sunday, he could be lights out and win going away, or play on par as he has this season, or somewhere in between, we will just have to wait and see.    Given the fact that Manning has played below his normal self this season and there is a chance he will do so on Sunday, it takes some of the pressure off the Pats and they are not facing the same Manning from 2013.   Which brings some level of comfort to Pats fans.

 

Agreed, Peyton does have a solid D this season.

 

It will be fun to watch, hope its a good and close game on Sunday.

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3 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

If he does do that, and wins the Super Bowl, you need to come back and say the same thing about Brady's playoff runs as well. But you and I both know that won't happen.

 

Manning doesn't need to play great to win the Super Bowl so it doesn't really matter. He has the team around him to do the heavy lifting. Much like how Brady had during his Super Bowl runs.

 

I'm missing something here. I'm really trying to not have a Brady/Manning comparison, but you keep pushing this so ill respond to it.

 

If the Denver Broncos win the Superbowl and Peyton Manning doesn't throw a single touchdown and looks overall mediocre for all 3 playoff games, why do I need to say the same thing about Brady's playoff runs in which that has never been the case???

 

I want to understand your angle, I really do...I just don't get it. 

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