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Scouting Colts OL for ZBS


Superman

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Chud prefers a zone blocking scheme, and Philbin is a zone blocking guy also. All signs point to the Colts moving to a lot more zone blocking in 2016. Many of us think that's a good adjustment, given the state of the game today, and will go a long way to jump starting the Colts run blocking, which is where the major changes will come.

 

The question I have is whether it's a good move given the state of the Colts roster. Will the linemen we have work well in a ZBS? As far as I understand, the differences between the two systems is more pronounced for interior linemen than tackles, but I'll give my thoughts on all the linemen we have under contract for 2016.

 

Tackles

Castonzo -- Originally drafted by a Colts team that was known for zone blocking, and is a great fit. He's spent four of his first five years working in a man blocking scheme, and has gotten pretty good. He's a plus athlete for an OL, he has the range and the length to get to the second level and engage defenders, finishes with power, and he is a heady player who knows his assignments. He also works well with his LG partners on combo blocks. If there's an issue with AC, it's his footwork sometimes breakdowns. No question about his ability to revert over to ZBS. 5/5

 

Reitz -- Another holdover from the previous era, a former basketball player who is also a plus athlete. Great range, good lateral movement ability, smart player, not overly physical, excellent footwork. Not as good at engaging or finishing at the second level. He's also tailor made for a ZBS. 4/5

 

Good -- A big mauler with power and heavy hands, but unfortunately also has heavy feet. He can move people, but he doesn't move well himself, especially in space. Not effective moving to the second level. He's still very raw, so his fundamentals and awareness aren't high level. His ability on double teams is still developing also. I don't think Good would ever be drafted by a team running a ZBS. 1/5

 

Guards

Mewhort -- He was a tackle in college, and it was an ambitious move to put him at RT to start 2015, but the staff is on record as thinking his best position is guard. It is. He's a big and powerful blocker who works well on double teams and does a reasonably good job of moving forward to the second level. However, his lateral movement and his pull blocking is lacking, severely. He's not good in space, sort of stiff and slow footed. There's less pulling in ZBS, so hopefully the idea is to move him straight forward and not side to side. He'll work, but he's not your ideal zone blocking guard. 3/5

 

Thornton -- I think he's the most physically gifted inerior lineman on the roster, a good mix of size/power and athleticism. He can combo block, he's a good puller, he gets to the second level well. His problem is with technique, fundamentals, sloppy footwork, and awareness. He sometimes gets out of control, but when he's on, he can finish well. I think he's a physical fit for any scheme, but needs to refine his skill set, and stay healthy. 3/5

 

Heenan -- We know basically nothing about him. He never got on the field for us. I saw a little of him in the CFL and the Shrine game, and he seemed to move reasonably well. He has experience playing in space. I think he'll be a decent option in camp and preseason. INC

 

O'Brien -- I know nothing about him, either. INC

 

Centers

Holmes -- Along with Thornton, I think Holmes is one of the great failures of the coaching staff. He has movement ability, awareness and does well on combo blocks. He's not powerful and he doesn't anchor well. I'm not sure why the Colts drafted him to play in a MBS, and then they continued to make him ride the bench. He's a ZBS prospect, always was, and if he gets a shot to play, we should see him use his positive traits more effectively, and negative traits will be less of an issue. 4/5

 

Harrison -- No athleticism, no range, lacks awareness, bad in space. Very powerful, has the tools to get to the second level, but despite his power, he rarely gets off the first man. Long enough arms to push off and move to the next man, but doesn't have the recognition to find the next man. I think he's just a bad lineman, no matter the scheme, but his traits don't make sense in a zone system. 1/5

 

Overall: 21/35, 60%, the Colts personnel has a reasonable fit for the new scheme, but this change doesn't mean we don't still need new talent and upgrades. While I think Holmes is a good fit, I think we need a new center. Young, improving talent is important as well.

 

Lance Louis is a free agent guard. He's probably a good scheme fit for a ZBS, but like Harrison, I don't think he's a good player. 2/5

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7 hours ago, Superman said:

Chud prefers a zone blocking scheme, and Philbin is a zone blocking guy also. All signs point to the Colts moving to a lot more zone blocking in 2016. Many of us think that's a good adjustment, given the state of the game today, and will go a long way to jump starting the Colts run blocking, which is where the major changes will come.

 

The question I have is whether it's a good move given the state of the Colts roster. Will the linemen we have work well in a ZBS? As far as I understand, the differences between the two systems is more pronounced for interior linemen than tackles, but I'll give my thoughts on all the linemen we have under contract for 2016.

 

Tackles

Castonzo -- Originally drafted by a Colts team that was known for zone blocking, and is a great fit. He's spent four of his first five years working in a man blocking scheme, and has gotten pretty good. He's a plus athlete for an OL, he has the range and the length to get to the second level and engage defenders, finishes with power, and he is a heady player who knows his assignments. He also works well with his LG partners on combo blocks. If there's an issue with AC, it's his footwork sometimes breakdowns. No question about his ability to revert over to ZBS. 5/5

 

Reitz -- Another holdover from the previous era, a former basketball player who is also a plus athlete. Great range, good lateral movement ability, smart player, not overly physical, excellent footwork. Not as good at engaging or finishing at the second level. He's also tailor made for a ZBS. 4/5

 

Good -- A big mauler with power and heavy hands, but unfortunately also has heavy feet. He can move people, but he doesn't move well himself, especially in space. Not effective moving to the second level. He's still very raw, so his fundamentals and awareness aren't high level. His ability on double teams is still developing also. I don't think Good would ever be drafted by a team running a ZBS. 1/5

 

Guards

Mewhort -- He was a tackle in college, and it was an ambitious move to put him at RT to start 2015, but the staff is on record as thinking his best position is guard. It is. He's a big and powerful blocker who works well on double teams and does a reasonably good job of moving forward to the second level. However, his lateral movement and his pull blocking is lacking, severely. He's not good in space, sort of stiff and slow footed. There's less pulling in ZBS, so hopefully the idea is to move him straight forward and not side to side. He'll work, but he's not your ideal zone blocking guard. 3/5

 

Thornton -- I think he's the most physically gifted inerior lineman on the roster, a good mix of size/power and athleticism. He can combo block, he's a good puller, he gets to the second level well. His problem is with technique, fundamentals, sloppy footwork, and awareness. He sometimes gets out of control, but when he's on, he can finish well. I think he's a physical fit for any scheme, but needs to refine his skill set, and stay healthy. 3/5

 

Heenan -- We know basically nothing about him. He never got on the field for us. I saw a little of him in the CFL and the Shrine game, and he seemed to move reasonably well. He has experience playing in space. I think he'll be a decent option in camp and preseason. INC

 

O'Brien -- I know nothing about him, either. INC

 

Centers

Holmes -- Along with Thornton, I think Holmes is one of the great failures of the coaching staff. He has movement ability, awareness and does well on combo blocks. He's not powerful and he doesn't anchor well. I'm not sure why the Colts drafted him to play in a MBS, and then they continued to make him ride the bench. He's a ZBS prospect, always was, and if he gets a shot to play, we should see him use his positive traits more effectively, and negative traits will be less of an issue. 4/5

 

Harrison -- No athleticism, no range, lacks awareness, bad in space. Very powerful, has the tools to get to the second level, but despite his power, he rarely gets off the first man. Long enough arms to push off and move to the next man, but doesn't have the recognition to find the next man. I think he's just a bad lineman, no matter the scheme, but his traits don't make sense in a zone system. 1/5

 

Overall: 21/35, 60%, the Colts personnel has a reasonable fit for the new scheme, but this change doesn't mean we don't still need new talent and upgrades. While I think Holmes is a good fit, I think we need a new center. Young, improving talent is important as well.

 

Lance Louis is a free agent guard. He's probably a good scheme fit for a ZBS, but like Harrison, I don't think he's a good player. 2/5

Very informative post.

 

I do think we're gonna see some new faces on the OL, at least 2 if not 3 starters. Whether that's FA or Draft, we're gonna find out 

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Superman, this is a terrific post...it looks like something I would write on a hockey forum, as I have a far greater knowledge of scouting and tactics in hockey than I do football...with that said, my cursory knowledge of football schemes and tactics does not provide for enough detail on this subject. I think I, and many others, would benefit from just a brief explanation of the principles/ideas behind a zone-blocking scheme vs. what the Colts have been doing. You seem extraordinarily knowledgeable about it as it is (it's one thing to know tactics, the second-level knowledge is identifying who would be a fit and why), care to provide just a little something for us to grasp on to?

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@Superman


Great write up, I'm not as sold on Holmes as you, but I'm willing to see how shifting schemes works out for him. I think we can all agree the Harrison experiment is over.

 

Thornton has all the tools to be very good for us, but as you say every time he seems to be making progress and building up some form he gets injures. 

 

Would you say a ZBS vs MBS is more conducive to keeping guys like Thornton healthier? 

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Very interesting post Supe.  Especially your opinion on Holmes and Thornton.  I hope you're right.  

 

I have always said that we should sell out to get the best Oline possible, through free agency and overdrafting.  But on the flip side I see how the Patriots make it work with whoever they use.  Scheme, coaching, and using a players strengths.

 

Again, I hope you're right.  It would mean we're not far off with better scheme and coaching.

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http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/5/27/4363750/zone-blocking-running-football-breakdown-highlights-analysis-diagram

 

http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2014/2/18/5394212/seahawks-marshawn-lynch-zone-blocking-scheme-tom-cable

 

The two links above do a good job of going into detail of explaining what Zone Blocking is and the principles and different footwork needed to operate and execute the scheme

 

Man/Power blocking is simply every O Lineman has a assigned/man to block be  it the man in front of ya or ya have a BACKSIDE Guard pulling from his LG spot (can be RG if they go the opposite way) moving around the Center

 

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Mikey287 said-

I think I, and many others, would benefit from just a brief explanation of the principles/ideas behind a zone-blocking scheme

****************************************************************8

 

The zone blocking scheme can be distilled down to two plays: the inside, or tight zone run, and the outside, or wide zone run.  The players are blocking in an area, or zone.  How to determine who to block?  Once lined up, he answers these questions-

 

Am I lined up to on the play-side or weak-side of the play?  Am I covered, or lined up in front of a defensive player? Is my teammate, who is next to me, covered or lined up in front of a defensive player?

 

Once this is determined, Alex Gibbs (likely the Godfather of the ZBS)  says-

 

"If you are UNCOVERED, zone with your teammate to the playside. If you are COVERED, look at your backside (away from playside) teammate. If he is COVERED, you will block your defender man-on-man. If he is UNCOVERED, he will double team/combo block with you towards the LB."

 

Here is an example:

ibkYipbSf8xNrp.gif

 

If an uncovered lineman helps block and feels his teammate has his opponent under control, he breaks off and heads downfield to block. On the backside of the play, you cut block. Also check out Russell Wilson.  It is very important.  The bootleg play is very important to the ZBS.  (IE: Mike Shannahan / Gary Kubiak)  Alex Gibbs says:

 

"One of the big problems for the wide zone play is the chaser from the backside. The easiest way to control the chaser is to run the quarterback on keeper plays out of the backside. Offensive coordinators do not call enough bootlegs and nakeds to slow down the backside rush."

 

Wilson's threat of running a naked boot froze the safety (back side chaser) just long enough to allow a cut back to the inside by the RB.  When the safety or corner backside never respects the boot and chases the RB exclusively, the QB only need keep the ball and run out and around into the open which will keep the safety honest for later runs.

 

"The quarterback puts the ball into the back's pocket and bursts out the other side on a naked action away from the play. He takes two quick steps in that action every time he runs the play. He has to make sure he does not bump the running back as he bursts away from the handoff."

 

Now here is an important part of the equation.  The running back must take what the defense gives and read the defense quickly from the outside in and make a decision.  More from Alex:

 

"The quarterback gives the ball to the running back between the back's first and second step. The running back has one good step, and he is about to hit the ground with his second foot when the quarterback begins to seed the ball. On the third step, the runner has to make a decision. If the runner does not make the decision on the third step, you have the wrong running back for this offense."

 

You have to have a guy that can get to the outside, or cut back in behind.  All in a split second decision.  So we not only need the lineman to execute this, but the running backs as well. Because on that 3rd step, the runner is either going out wide, or going downhill.  There is no time to dilly dally and discuss it in committee. It must be decisive and correct.

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2 hours ago, Gavin said:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/5/27/4363750/zone-blocking-running-football-breakdown-highlights-analysis-diagram

 

http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2014/2/18/5394212/seahawks-marshawn-lynch-zone-blocking-scheme-tom-cable

 

The two links above do a good job of going into detail of explaining what Zone Blocking is and the principles and different footwork needed to operate and execute the scheme

 

Man/Power blocking is simply every O Lineman has a assigned/man to block be  it the man in front of ya or ya have a BACKSIDE Guard pulling from his LG spot (can be RG if they go the opposite way) moving around the Center

 

 

Keep these links handy!  

 

I think you're going to need them many, many times during the first year or two of this conversion....

 

I don't expect a smooth transition....    and many posters will have many questions when there are bumps in the road....

 

 

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Great write up Supe. I think we'll have 2 new starters on the OL next year. RG and C. I know Thornton has all pro potential, but I don't think we should gamble on him reaching it. I think we need to replace him and if he looks good we could move Mewhort back out to RT.

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Good write up!  During my playing time it was just hit'um and clear the hole or play called run area.  No explanation just clear that area, no who, what, where, why            and how!  The only question that was answered is when, just clear it now!  Thanks again guys!

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44 minutes ago, 100GFB said:

Good write up!  During my playing time it was just hit'um and clear the hole or play called run area.  No explanation just clear that area, no who, what, where, why            and how!  The only question that was answered is when, just clear it now!  Thanks again guys!

 

Ha ha. That's awesome. Did you play college?

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14 hours ago, Superman said:

I don't think Good would ever be drafted by a team running a ZBS.

I think from everyone's reaction on draft day, no one would have thought he would ever be drafted period. 

 

Thornton's struggles with technique will make him a liability in a zone scheme even more so than a power scheme IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if Reitz (or some drafted/free agent) is at RG once the season starts.

 

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10 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

@Superman


Great write up, I'm not as sold on Holmes as you, but I'm willing to see how shifting schemes works out for him. I think we can all agree the Harrison experiment is over.

 

Thornton has all the tools to be very good for us, but as you say every time he seems to be making progress and building up some form he gets injures. 

 

Would you say a ZBS vs MBS is more conducive to keeping guys like Thornton healthier? 

 

I don't think it will mean anything for anyone's health. There's still plenty of impact and plenty of pile ups. 

 

I think my grade on Holmes might be confusing. I'm ready to move on from him, for sure. But his skill set is basically perfect for a ZBS, with the exception of some sloppy footwork, but usually the bad footwork is when he's trying to anchor. He'd still need to anchor in pass pro, but not so much in the run game, especially at the center position. So I think his weaknesses are minimized and the things that are positives would fit well.

 

I really, really hope the Harrison project is over. He's just not a good player. 

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6 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

Great write up Supe. I think we'll have 2 new starters on the OL next year. RG and C. I know Thornton has all pro potential, but I don't think we should gamble on him reaching it. I think we need to replace him and if he looks good we could move Mewhort back out to RT.

 

I agree on everything but Mewhort. I think we should leave him at LG, and always have.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I agree on everything but Mewhort. I think we should leave him at LG, and always have.

 

I agree. I think he's best suited at guard. But what if we sign a big time guard and draft a center, and Thornton looks really, really impressive in preseason etc, but Reitz and Good struggle at RT? I mean I know that's kind of an unlikely scenario but still possible. And also what if we sign Osemele? Would you think Mewhort would stay at LG or move to RG?

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I agree on everything but Mewhort. I think we should leave him at LG, and always have.

 

I agree about leaving him at guard. But what makes me wonder about his exact position on the line is that his skill set seems better suited to RG than LG. Whenever I've listened to former NFL guards describe the differences between playing the position on the right side vs the left side, it seems like Mewhort's strengths are suited to the right. Mostly because his one on one pass protection skills are really good, his mobility is not a strength. The only reason I can see leaving him at LG would be continuity. Are there other reasons you think he's more of an LG than RG?

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38 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

I agree. I think he's best suited at guard. But what if we sign a big time guard and draft a center, and Thornton looks really, really impressive in preseason etc, but Reitz and Good struggle at RT? I mean I know that's kind of an unlikely scenario but still possible. And also what if we sign Osemele? Would you think Mewhort would stay at LG or move to RG?

 

Lots of unknowns could come up. I'm just saying I think Mewhort is best at guard, and that's where we should project him. Center to RT are the positions that need serious evaluation and potential improvement, IMO.

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27 minutes ago, Track Guy said:

 

I agree about leaving him at guard. But what makes me wonder about his exact position on the line is that his skill set seems better suited to RG than LG. Whenever I've listened to former NFL guards describe the differences between playing the position on the right side vs the left side, it seems like Mewhort's strengths are suited to the right. Mostly because his one on one pass protection skills are really good, his mobility is not a strength. The only reason I can see leaving him at LG would be continuity. Are there other reasons you think he's more of an LG than RG?

 

IMO, power schemes usually pull the LG more than the RG, but I think that's overblown. We pulled RG more, mostly because our RG was most mobile. We started with Louis at LG and Herremans at RG, and pulled Louis more. I personally think it's interchangeable, or should be.

 

In a zone scheme, that's less of an issue. I'm sure we'll still run some power stuff, but the pulling guard stuff won't be such a big part of the offense. 

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13 hours ago, mikey287 said:

Superman, this is a terrific post...it looks like something I would write on a hockey forum, as I have a far greater knowledge of scouting and tactics in hockey than I do football...with that said, my cursory knowledge of football schemes and tactics does not provide for enough detail on this subject. I think I, and many others, would benefit from just a brief explanation of the principles/ideas behind a zone-blocking scheme vs. what the Colts have been doing. You seem extraordinarily knowledgeable about it as it is (it's one thing to know tactics, the second-level knowledge is identifying who would be a fit and why), care to provide just a little something for us to grasp on to?

I played hockey for over 20 years and was a player coach for the last 7 years. I agree this looked like a scouting report on +/- numbers and rating the ability to forecheck and keep pressure on the goal

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11 hours ago, gacoop1 said:
  • The Oline has a year under their belt, so it's time for Philbin to earn his paycheck. Besides that's why they brought him here in the first place.  Keep the Oline intact and draft some playmakers on the Defense.

That was my take last year, when I had high hopes Herremans would do well, and Thorton and Holmes would mature.  I was wrong, and Luck can't afford another year of running for his life and battling through injuries because he is poorly protected.

 

Not to be too pragmatic, but bad D causes hurt pride, bad O line causes hurt players.

 

I'm anxious to see the D get better after YEARS of embarrassing play, but not at the cost of addressing the O-line's woes.

 

PLEASE, Jim, Ryan, et al...  protect the franchise.

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On 1/17/2016 at 1:49 AM, Superman said:

Chud prefers a zone blocking scheme, and Philbin is a zone blocking guy also. All signs point to the Colts moving to a lot more zone blocking in 2016. Many of us think that's a good adjustment, given the state of the game today, and will go a long way to jump starting the Colts run blocking, which is where the major changes will come.

 

The question I have is whether it's a good move given the state of the Colts roster. Will the linemen we have work well in a ZBS? As far as I understand, the differences between the two systems is more pronounced for interior linemen than tackles, but I'll give my thoughts on all the linemen we have under contract for 2016.

 

Tackles

Castonzo -- Originally drafted by a Colts team that was known for zone blocking, and is a great fit. He's spent four of his first five years working in a man blocking scheme, and has gotten pretty good. He's a plus athlete for an OL, he has the range and the length to get to the second level and engage defenders, finishes with power, and he is a heady player who knows his assignments. He also works well with his LG partners on combo blocks. If there's an issue with AC, it's his footwork sometimes breakdowns. No question about his ability to revert over to ZBS. 5/5

 

Reitz -- Another holdover from the previous era, a former basketball player who is also a plus athlete. Great range, good lateral movement ability, smart player, not overly physical, excellent footwork. Not as good at engaging or finishing at the second level. He's also tailor made for a ZBS. 4/5

 

Good -- A big mauler with power and heavy hands, but unfortunately also has heavy feet. He can move people, but he doesn't move well himself, especially in space. Not effective moving to the second level. He's still very raw, so his fundamentals and awareness aren't high level. His ability on double teams is still developing also. I don't think Good would ever be drafted by a team running a ZBS. 1/5

 

Guards

Mewhort -- He was a tackle in college, and it was an ambitious move to put him at RT to start 2015, but the staff is on record as thinking his best position is guard. It is. He's a big and powerful blocker who works well on double teams and does a reasonably good job of moving forward to the second level. However, his lateral movement and his pull blocking is lacking, severely. He's not good in space, sort of stiff and slow footed. There's less pulling in ZBS, so hopefully the idea is to move him straight forward and not side to side. He'll work, but he's not your ideal zone blocking guard. 3/5

 

Thornton -- I think he's the most physically gifted inerior lineman on the roster, a good mix of size/power and athleticism. He can combo block, he's a good puller, he gets to the second level well. His problem is with technique, fundamentals, sloppy footwork, and awareness. He sometimes gets out of control, but when he's on, he can finish well. I think he's a physical fit for any scheme, but needs to refine his skill set, and stay healthy. 3/5

 

Heenan -- We know basically nothing about him. He never got on the field for us. I saw a little of him in the CFL and the Shrine game, and he seemed to move reasonably well. He has experience playing in space. I think he'll be a decent option in camp and preseason. INC

 

O'Brien -- I know nothing about him, either. INC

 

Centers

Holmes -- Along with Thornton, I think Holmes is one of the great failures of the coaching staff. He has movement ability, awareness and does well on combo blocks. He's not powerful and he doesn't anchor well. I'm not sure why the Colts drafted him to play in a MBS, and then they continued to make him ride the bench. He's a ZBS prospect, always was, and if he gets a shot to play, we should see him use his positive traits more effectively, and negative traits will be less of an issue. 4/5

 

Harrison -- No athleticism, no range, lacks awareness, bad in space. Very powerful, has the tools to get to the second level, but despite his power, he rarely gets off the first man. Long enough arms to push off and move to the next man, but doesn't have the recognition to find the next man. I think he's just a bad lineman, no matter the scheme, but his traits don't make sense in a zone system. 1/5

 

Overall: 21/35, 60%, the Colts personnel has a reasonable fit for the new scheme, but this change doesn't mean we don't still need new talent and upgrades. While I think Holmes is a good fit, I think we need a new center. Young, improving talent is important as well.

 

Lance Louis is a free agent guard. He's probably a good scheme fit for a ZBS, but like Harrison, I don't think he's a good player. 2/5

I think this is an excellent post!  At the risk of sounding nuts, I wonder how some zone blocking principles in the passing game could work with a QB as good on his feet as Andrew.  What I mean is for the O-line to take a lick on passing plays and then drop into a pocket protection mode that only an NFL coach could dream up.  It maybe nuts, but I can also just about visualize it.

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31 minutes ago, jet1968 said:

Castonzo, Mewhort, and Reitz are retainable in my opinion. Any and all of the rest could be upgraded.

 

As long as Mewhort can conform to the footwork & sync along with the speed, yeah, as Superman suggests. Castonzo & Reitz already have these aspects IMO. To me, it's the Colts call on Jack. Adding new blood to a ZBS takes some doing especially from a tranfer status at MBS. I'm looking quite forward to seeing what can target from the draft, FA, and undrafted candidates.

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