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UPDATE: Rams moving to LA, Chargers pending decision


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1 minute ago, bap1331 said:

 

wait, what do you mean?

As a businessman, it never hurts to have another city to put an offer in, when you are negotiating with your current city. Even a veiled threat can get the politicians moving, or you end up like St. Louis. 

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Just now, Myles said:

I've never found anything to back that up.   The city pays lots of other expenses.   Traffic control, security and tax exceptions to name a few.  

I have to believe that St. Louis did the research to determine that it could not recoup the money for a new stadium. 

However, resident satisfaction is tough to determine.

Marion county collects 2% of all restaurant sales every day. The 7 of the 8 surrounding counties collect the same 2% and keep 1% of that money. There is also a base amount for every hotel-motel room that is rented. Irsay put up 100 million dollars of his money also. You speak of other expenses? Those expenses are paid to the residents of Indiana so that money is recouped by employment. The annual events hosted there pay into the fund. The NFL combine is one other money making deal. These are not all of the revenues that Lucas draws in. Oh, Lucas Oil pays 120 million for naming rights.

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26 minutes ago, The Old Crow said:

I don't think Jim really wanted to move to LA, but all these guys are businessmen, and are going to use all leverage available. 

With the contract and lease that Jim signed he really cant get out of them without some serious fines that would take up around 60% of his wealth.

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8 minutes ago, Myles said:

Not true.  

 

Yes it is. Cynics don't account for externalities in their studies, but when you have major development projects in tandem with pro sports venues -- assuming the costs and revenues are split properly -- cities see an economic benefit from having a pro sports team.

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1 hour ago, MTC said:

Sort of OT: I'm shocked a lot of people don't realize that the Jets and Giants share a stadium (also located in New Jersey).

 

29 minutes ago, Myles said:

Not true.  

That is not true when you add up all the revenue that is brought in. The list is too many for me to type out. What you don't seem to grasp is all the money made goes back into the local economy. All the people who make a living because of the stadium. Food, beverage, parking, conventions, security, electronics, hotel-motels and local taxation are just some of the money the local community makes.

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1 minute ago, The Old Crow said:

Sounds like the deal has worked out for Indy and ownership. 

I have read the numbers but I cant find the site it was on at this time. Jim did actually put up 100 million of Colts money to start. Lucas Oil also put up 120 million for naming rights. So a pretty good chunk of money was put up at the start. Irsay signed a 30 year lease so breaking that lease would not pay him at all.

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have read the numbers but I cant find the site it was on at this time. Jim did actually put up 100 million of Colts money to start. Lucas Oil also put up 120 million for naming rights. So a pretty good chunk of money was put up at the start. Irsay signed a 30 year lease so breaking that lease would not pay him at all.

You guys have a nice stadium, no reason to leave. Sounds like Shaw put many clauses in the lease when the Rams moved to St. Louis. Kroenke used these to get rolling to LA 

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So you dropped your allegiance for the Rams because they moved to St. Louis?

No. I haven't seen a NFL team in LA ever in my life. I only started to watch football for five years and the reason why I picked the colts because of #12. The Stanford vs USC game (watched with my family) is when I see his greatness.

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2 hours ago, The Old Crow said:

That is what the Redskins tried with Baltimore. It would be similar if Indy lost its team and the NFL told you that you had the Bears to root for because you were in their region. 

 

Are you trying to find my deepest fears?

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5 minutes ago, buccolts said:

 

Are you trying to find my deepest fears?

These were my deepest fears and they actually came to pass. The NFL force fed Redskin games into the Baltimore market whether we wanted to watch them or not. Cooke and later Synder planned, and finally put a stadium in Laurel MD closer to Baltimore to claim the market. We were dragged through the expansion process like a painted up lady of the night, and rejected tine and again, for 12 years. We had to host meaningless exhibition teams for other NFL teams to impress the league. Finally, Cooke ally Taglibue , suggested we forget football and build a museum. Poor St. Louis, that's all I can say. 

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52 minutes ago, IcEWoLF said:

LA is a big place, plus they will make way more money from LA than STL.

Advertisement, money, celebrities...

 

Los Angeles has been the #1 market in the NFL for quite some time. No team there for 21 years. I really think the NFL had-had enough of that to be honest. The largest market in the NFL now has a team back in the city. Ain't that surprising? The Almighty Dollar wins again.

 

"The Los Angeles Rams" - gotta get used to that, again! Good luck, L.A.! 

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6 minutes ago, ColtRider said:

 

Los Angeles has been the #1 market in the NFL for quite some time. No team there for 21 years. I really think the NFL had-had enough of that to be honest. The largest market in the NFL now has a team back in the city. Ain't that surprising? The Almighty Dollar wins again.

 

"The Los Angeles Rams" - gotta get used to that, again! Good luck, L.A.! 

Does it surprise anyone that Kroenke, with his big money, power , and mega plan , trumped Spanos and Davis ? The other two seem very angry,  so the last dominoes may not have fallen. 

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6 minutes ago, buccolts said:

Hmm, the St.Louis Raiders. 

I suppose we'll get used to it. At least the threat of it, anyway. 

They have a chance to get them if they get a stadium package together fast. Poor Oakland has no money. They are still paying off the Raider renovations from  20 years ago. 

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15 minutes ago, buccolts said:

Wasn't the issue that they couldn't support a team? A couple of times? 

What's changed? 

Population went up, but you still have a lot of transitional people out there , like Florida, who are fans of other teams. They leave games early to boot, to beat traffic. 

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1 hour ago, HiltonTD said:

I feel absolutely horrible for those fan bases that just had their home team ripped away from them.. i cant even imagine

I've been a Colts fan since 1966, so I CAN imagine, for as a Colts fan I went through it when the Colts left Baltimore for Indy.  (I also went through it when my home city lost our NHL Jets to Arizona - thankfully we got the Jets back a few years ago.)  

 

It IS horrible for fans.   Thankfully, I got over it regarding to the Colts and stuck with the shoe.  (As for hockey, I basically quit following the NHL cold turkey out of bitterness, & you gotta understand, I am Canadian and grew up playing hockey into my 40s and I lived and breathed NHL hockey, so giving up on a professional sport was HUGE.  Even now, with the Jets having returned, although I support and care about the Jets, once they're out, I still ignore the rest of the league due to the damage in goodwill caused when we lost the Jets.)

 

i feel really badly for St. Louis fans, but there's a bit of justice there, as the Rams were LA's team. Of all the teams wanting to move, the Rams made the most sense.   I'd hate to see the Chargers leave San Diego, but I was at a game at the Murph a few years ago and I have to say, the facility is utter crap by today's standards - the worst NFL stadium experience I've had (and I've been to a game in Oakland).

 

i really hope San Diego can come up with a late hour solution so they can keep the Chargers.   Also, when I think of the Raiders I think of Oakland.  I was so happy when they moved back to Oakland from LA.   I really hope the Raiders work things out so they stay in Oakland. 

 

I also hope St. Louis can get their stadium deal and that the NFL will grant a future expansion franchise to bring a team back, like they did with Cleveland after they lost their team to Baltimore.  

 

As for Los Angeles, I think one team is enough for LA and I like that it's the Los Angeles Rams. 

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3 hours ago, bap1331 said:

 

Yea, im just so glad the Colts didnt enter. I know that the Irsays choices were between moving to Indy or Los Angeles. Even though i live 45 miles from LA, Indy is the right place.

 

LA has had their chances with their teams and obviously thats why they left in the first place. The demographics show its just not a football city. Too much going on and i believe it will affect a players performance with the Hollywood scene.

 

Even Vontae Davis said it himself that Indy saved his career because the nightlife distracted him from his work. Its unexplainable but we will see a difference.

Los Angeles is definitely a football town. I don't know what "demographics" you're looking at. Teams left Los Angeles because of the stadium tax. People refused to pay the tax, so the teams got up and left. Had nothing to do with attendance.

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Well I kinda think this is stupid, but at least it wont screw up all the divisions considering they're both already west division teams. IMO only one team should have moved to LA if any did. Cant even imagine how mad Rams fans are. St. Louis is a sports town. They love their teams.

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3 hours ago, IcEWoLF said:

LA is a big place, plus they will make way more money from LA than STL.

Advertisement, money, celebrities...

Just because the market is bigger on the west coast, it doesn't mean that fans are going to show up or even celebrities if the Rams suck. 

 

I was hoping the Chargers could have stayed in San Diego. I liked them there & I feel bad for HOF QB Dan Fouts who became a legend in that city. I heard an interview he did during the 'Rich Einsen Show on the phone & he seemed very depressed about the prospect of his team moving to LA. I felt horrible for the man who's a superb play by play NFL announcer & just hilarious too. 

 

I get it. If this is the only way to get a new stadium, then okay, but I like Philip Rivers & the gang where they are & how can you do the San Diego Superchargers jingle in LA? It doesn't work man. Sigh...My condolences to all the loyal bolt fans out there. 

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8 hours ago, Nadine said:

Blackmailed? Shiftless? and the fans are completely innocent victims? 

I think it's more complicated than that

 

Well, on the first point it is hard to deny that owners blackmail their host cities into building new stadiums with the threat of moving constantly.  For a city like Indy, I think the investment has (or will going forward) pay off, but it isn't always the case.  We have tremendous convention business and our tight/close downtown allows any type of event to enjoy what their is of our smallish downtown within walking distance or a 5 dollar cab ride.  Oakland, on the other hand could not build a stadium and San Diego, which is a wealthy town compared to other NFL markets, simply chose not to be pushed into it.  The burden on St. Louis was just too much for them to bite off to keep an owner, who frankly had no interest in remaining in St. Louis anyway, didn't cut them any breaks in their efforts.  Both the Pacers and Colts have threatened our local politicians to give them what they want.  For a top 12 city Indianapolis has very little to hang it's hat on outside of a clean friendly and easy to get around downtown and without our Pro Teams and stadiums and smart convention/tourism board we'd be a wide spot where 70, 69, 65 & 74 highways pass through.  Blackmail happens with every new stadium built or demanded. 

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1 hour ago, Bogie said:

 

Are they going to be switching back to the retro awesome yellow and blue uniforms? 

I know I always say this: But, I love their powder blue uniforms. The best throw back jerseys in the NFL & my personal favorite. 

 

If I was ever to buy another team's jersey outside of a current INDY one, Philip Rivers in that retro look would be it. If 17 wasn't available or out of stock, I'd roll with a Danny Woodhead jersey in that cool shade of blue as my second choice. 

 

Now, I know what you're thinking. How can you complement Dan Fouts as an analyst & not want his jersey? A fair question. Answer: I didn't grow up watching Dan. I just always liked Philip's toughness. Yeah, I know he hasn't won a ring. So what? He's still one hades of a quarterback & why management fired Marty Schottenheimer in 2007 with a 14-2 record was beyond asinine to me. 

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You know it's interesting. For a long time, I was opposed to new stadium construction if a team underperformed a lot, but as the years have gone by & I've gotten older, I appreciate that the league understands that the shield is only as strong as it's weakest link. Therefore, by making sure all franchises either get new digs or upgrades, all 32 owners grasp that their product is better when not just 4 teams are always on top. They get that all franchises must share in the financial pie for success. 

 

Now, don't get me wrong, it still infuriates me that state legislatures are stuck with a large portion of the stadium costs. Something that most fans can't afford for all regular season games by the time you factor in parking, food, tickets, & merchandise. I just appreciate that the NFL unlike MLB tries to level the playing field among all the franchises vs just a select few clubs overall. 

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7 hours ago, rockywoj said:

I've been a Colts fan since 1966, so I CAN imagine, for as a Colts fan I went through it when the Colts left Baltimore for Indy.  (I also went through it when my home city lost our NHL Jets to Arizona - thankfully we got the Jets back a few years ago.)  

 

It IS horrible for fans.   Thankfully, I got over it regarding to the Colts and stuck with the shoe.  (As for hockey, I basically quit following the NHL cold turkey out of bitterness, & you gotta understand, I am Canadian and grew up playing hockey into my 40s and I lived and breathed NHL hockey, so giving up on a professional sport was HUGE.  Even now, with the Jets having returned, although I support and care about the Jets, once they're out, I still ignore the rest of the league due to the damage in goodwill caused when we lost the Jets.)

 

i feel really badly for St. Louis fans, but there's a bit of justice there, as the Rams were LA's team. Of all the teams wanting to move, the Rams made the most sense.   I'd hate to see the Chargers leave San Diego, but I was at a game at the Murph a few years ago and I have to say, the facility is utter crap by today's standards - the worst NFL stadium experience I've had (and I've been to a game in Oakland).

 

i really hope San Diego can come up with a late hour solution so they can keep the Chargers.   Also, when I think of the Raiders I think of Oakland.  I was so happy when they moved back to Oakland from LA.   I really hope the Raiders work things out so they stay in Oakland. 

 

I also hope St. Louis can get their stadium deal and that the NFL will grant a future expansion franchise to bring a team back, like they did with Cleveland after they lost their team to Baltimore.  

 

As for Los Angeles, I think one team is enough for LA and I like that it's the Los Angeles Rams. 

 

The hard thing when your team leaves is to deal with the loss and anger. It is much easier for the fan that doesn't live in the home city where the team left. A Rams fan that lives in Denver will be less likely to mind the move then someone in St . Louis. You may like the Rams logos , history, or players, and the city where they go to is less of a problem. If you are a native of that city where a team leaves , it is much more difficult because it is your community that has been rejected. Trust me , I know how you felt about the Jets. 

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This is terrible for the fans who have invested their time, money and emotions in a team. The new owner of the Bills should be commended for keeping the Bills in Western NY. Those fans love their team and it would have crushed them to lose the Bills.

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4 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Well, on the first point it is hard to deny that owners blackmail their host cities into building new stadiums with the threat of moving constantly.  For a city like Indy, I think the investment has (or will going forward) pay off, but it isn't always the case.  We have tremendous convention business and our tight/close downtown allows any type of event to enjoy what their is of our smallish downtown within walking distance or a 5 dollar cab ride.  Oakland, on the other hand could not build a stadium and San Diego, which is a wealthy town compared to other NFL markets, simply chose not to be pushed into it.  The burden on St. Louis was just too much for them to bite off to keep an owner, who frankly had no interest in remaining in St. Louis anyway, didn't cut them any breaks in their efforts.  Both the Pacers and Colts have threatened our local politicians to give them what they want.  For a top 12 city Indianapolis has very little to hang it's hat on outside of a clean friendly and easy to get around downtown and without our Pro Teams and stadiums and smart convention/tourism board we'd be a wide spot where 70, 69, 65 & 74 highways pass through.  Blackmail happens with every new stadium built or demanded. 

 

Let me preface this by saying I think Indy is a great city and sports town. I travel a lot , and really enjoy it there. Very polite NFL fans , and politicians that get it, and understand what you have to do to get or keep a team. They know the benefit of professional sports franchises. 

 

You guys will probably lose the combine, and that stinks. We all like it in Indy, but with these owners, it's all about how much more obscene profits can we squeeze out. Part of me understands it because it's big business, and I have no problem with guys taking risks making profits. But what gets lost in the shuffle is fans, and the communities. They are great until an owner can get more profit elsewhere. My other concern is all of us may eventually have to boot the costs of future mega stadiums these guys all will want. It could be a scary future. 

 

I I know this will never happen but when these teams move, I would like to see the logos and team histories stay in the cities. I'm not picking on you guys because it's a done deal with the Colts, and we have the Ravens, but moving forward it would be a good thing. I watched Eric Dickerson excited as he is known primarily as a LA Ram . I saw Kurt Warner wondering what his legacy will be in LA, as he was a St. Louis Ram. Will Kurt Warner be the Johnny Unitas of St. Louis ?

 

If if a team has to move that's one thing, but just make a clean break. Start over in another city with an exciting new history, not something that happened elsewhere. The new logos will sell as good as the old ones if you win. In the Rams case, they are moving back to a place they are best known. Still, you have that 21 year history in St Louis. Is Kroenke going to fly the St Louis banners in LA ? Always sticky with these moves historically. 

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