Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Jim is the problem with this team


superrep1967

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

 

It will be quite adjustment...but I don't think you are understanding my point. The Colts don't change their philosophy in failure...and that is what I would be irate at if I was a fan. They have shown twice now in the last few years alone that if something goes wrong with their starting quarterback, the team folds up dies. You guys continue to use first round picks on offense when it's not their need and the coaches couldn't even make a baby cry. Build a team with some depth so that when one player does go down, it doesn't cripple you. You had two winning lottery tickets in your pocket, but instead of cashing it in you just keep buying the 2$ scratchers. 

Remember this, because it's important considering the criticism you are about to endure.......THEY CANNOT EAT YOU

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 130
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Dustin said this being sarcastic, but I'm going to say it seriously: The team went 6-3 with backup QBs this year. In what world does that equal 'folding up and dying'? 

 

If we weren't 2-5 with the starting QB, we probably win the division. Unlike 2011, we got the backup QB situation right this time. 

 

I was legitimately not being sarcastic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Superman said:

Dustin said this being sarcastic, but I'm going to say it seriously: The team went 6-3 with backup QBs this year. In what world does that equal 'folding up and dying'? 

 

If we weren't 2-5 with the starting QB, we probably win the division. Unlike 2011, we got the backup QB situation right this time. 

 

Perhaps that speaks to a bigger problem then...

 

My point is only this: Manning covered up a LOT of issues that this team had during his time here, and only when he was gone did they reveal themselves. So the Colts hit the jackpot and get the ultimate do-over by drafting Luck, yet here we are AGAIN this year talking about what needs to change. It doesn't even matter that the Colts went 6-3 with their backup...that's great...but you missed the playoffs in a *-poor division and fans were calling for changes all year long. You make it sound like that didn't happen, and hasn't happened over the years. What, all of a sudden when a Patriots fan says it that means it wasn't true?

 

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

Your team won 7 less games when Brady went down in 08. Ours won 5 less.

 

And not once did we ever talk about firing this guy or firing that guy or 'needing a change'...but unfortunately that has become the M.O. of the Colts fan on these forums over the years.

 

Derka derka, indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Perhaps that speaks to a bigger problem then...

 

My point is only this: Manning covered up a LOT of issues that this team had during his time here, and only when he was gone did they reveal themselves. So the Colts hit the jackpot and get the ultimate do-over by drafting Luck, yet here we are AGAIN this year talking about what needs to change. It doesn't even matter that the Colts went 6-3 with their backup...that's great...but you missed the playoffs in a *-poor division and fans were calling for changes all year long. You make it sound like that didn't happen, and hasn't happened over the years. What, all of a sudden when a Patriots fan says it that means it wasn't true?

 

 

And not once did we ever talk about firing this guy or firing that guy or 'needing a change'...but unfortunately that has become the M.O. of the Colts fan on these forums over the years.

 

Derka derka, indeed.

I think our franchises are in different positions, not every coach is Bill Belichick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

Perhaps that speaks to a bigger problem then...

 

My point is only this: Manning covered up a LOT of issues that this team had during his time here, and only when he was gone did they reveal themselves. So the Colts hit the jackpot and get the ultimate do-over by drafting Luck, yet here we are AGAIN this year talking about what needs to change. It doesn't even matter that the Colts went 6-3 with their backup...that's great...but you missed the playoffs in a *-poor division and fans were calling for changes all year long. You make it sound like that didn't happen, and hasn't happened over the years. What, all of a sudden when a Patriots fan says it that means it wasn't true?

 

I pulled out the part of your post that made the least sense to me. The Colts didn't fall apart because they lost their QB this year. You tried to point to that as a parallel, and it's not. Going .500 with a backup is a reasonable target. We did better than that.

 

As for the issues with the team, yeah, there are issues. As an optimistic fan, I don't think those issues are so dramatic that they can't be improved with some good decisions. 

 

What I don't believe is that just because the Colts stalled out in 2015 that their model is broken and they're doomed. No one was under the impression that this team was perfect and would have no issues and automatically win a SB just because we got to the AFCCG last year; at least I wasn't. As a matter of fact, I've been saying for two years now that 2015 would be critical. It didn't go the way I thought it would, and if I were Irsay, I would have been leaning toward replacing my staff entirely because of that. I'm not convinced Grigson and Pagano are the guys that we need to be perennial championship contenders. That doesn't mean I can't be convinced moving forward.

 

Just to belabor the point, here's what I think was most problematic with the Colts this year:

1) Bad offensive line play

2) Lack of defensive playmakers

3) Bad offensive coordinator

4) Luck playing poorly to start the season

5) Luck getting hurt

6) Friction with the staff

 

IMO, 3 thru 5 are taken care of, or will be. I'm hoping 6 is taken care of, but time will tell. I expect 1 and 2 to be fixed in the offseason. Lots of work to do, but I don't believe there's some unsolvable crisis going on here.

 

I do find the premise of your original post to be laughable. As was pointed out, it's not like the Pats' fortunes were turned around on the foundational decisions to hire Belichick and roll with Brady... Also, if the Colts don't draft Manning in '98, they do something else, just like other teams did. If they don't draft Luck, they do something else, just like other teams have done. Yes, history would be different, but it doesn't mean the team would be relegated to futility with no hope otherwise. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

And not once did we ever talk about firing this guy or firing that guy or 'needing a change'...but unfortunately that has become the M.O. of the Colts fan on these forums over the years.

 

Having a head coach who is also the GM means you'll never have tension between your head coach and GM. 

 

Also, having a head coach/GM who won three SBs in his first five years means that he has a lot of rope. He's also really good at what he does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Perhaps that speaks to a bigger problem then...

 

My point is only this: Manning covered up a LOT of issues that this team had during his time here, and only when he was gone did they reveal themselves. So the Colts hit the jackpot and get the ultimate do-over by drafting Luck, yet here we are AGAIN this year talking about what needs to change. It doesn't even matter that the Colts went 6-3 with their backup...that's great...but you missed the playoffs in a *-poor division and fans were calling for changes all year long. You make it sound like that didn't happen, and hasn't happened over the years. What, all of a sudden when a Patriots fan says it that means it wasn't true?

 

 

And not once did we ever talk about firing this guy or firing that guy or 'needing a change'...but unfortunately that has become the M.O. of the Colts fan on these forums over the years.

 

Derka derka, indeed.

LOL he does play along!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

Sometimes I wonder how much more fan outrage there would be if the Colts hadn't lucked into drafting at #1 the two years that it actually mattered. This franchise has been given two golden tickets over the last 20 years, and even with the advantage of rare stability at the quarterback position during that time, for one reason or another they just can't seem to figure out how to build the rest of the team. Can you even imagine how bad this franchise would have been during this time if they hadn't been gifted not one, but two franchise quarterbacks???

 

If a team like the Jets, for example, had Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck, they probably would have been the next great dynasty...instead they are stuck in a perennial search for a quarterback that can take them to that next step...much like 80% of the league. Don't be milquetoast...something just isn't working there.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Having a head coach who is also the GM means you'll never have tension between your head coach and GM. 

 

Also, having a head coach/GM who won three SBs in his first five years means that he has a lot of rope. He's also really good at what he does.

Including chea...

 

oh, never mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, GoColtsWin said:

It's comical how thin skinned some are in regards to Jim Irsay. I still remember how bad we were in the 80's. Count On Losing This Sunday! That's the acronym we as fans had to live with. Remember, that was the days when the Patriots were a laughing stock. These are good days, whether we are in the playoffs this year or not. We have allot to be thankful for now, and Jim Irsay is the reason. JMO

Robert Irsay was in charge in the 80's and FA and the cap were not part of football. The game has changed completely since then. Judge him on what he has done since he was in charge, and you may want to bring up some personal shortcomings if you don't like him, but his management of the team has been very good. Until Caldwell was fired and Polian left, we were considered a model franchise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, loudnproudcolt said:

Robert Irsay was in charge in the 80's and FA and the cap were not part of football. The game has changed completely since then. Judge him on what he has done since he was in charge, and you may want to bring up some personal shortcomings if you don't like him, but his management of the team has been very good. Until Caldwell was fired and Polian left, we were considered a model franchise.

Thank you. Got so caught up in responding, that I didn't catch that before posting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still stunned that Jim I-rsay retained the services of both Chuck Pagano & Ryan Grigson. Is it possible that these 2 men now have a newfound appreciation for each other & that are giving each other more independence & autonomy to do their jobs? You draft players & I'll coach them up & we won't blur those lines anymore? God, I sincerely hope so...

 

I will still love this team & follow them no matter what. I just want assurances that the coaching on the o-line is going to be addressed. We can't have Luck taking so many hits. I just don't want Andrew missing opportunities to compete for a ring from this point forward. I was too upset to even watch the press conference once I heard the news especially after Tom Coughlin resigned in the Big Apple. He was who I wanted to run the show in 2016. 

 

However, since that's no longer in the cards anymore, I will learn to digest this reality as long as both Pags & Grigs know that our o-line coaching needs to improve & no more excuses. Get an o-line specialist in here who can give Andrew a chance to climb the pocket & Gore the ability to reach the 2nd level before he is even touched. 

 

Off to watch the press conference now...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Perhaps that speaks to a bigger problem then...

 

My point is only this: Manning covered up a LOT of issues that this team had during his time here, and only when he was gone did they reveal themselves. So the Colts hit the jackpot and get the ultimate do-over by drafting Luck, yet here we are AGAIN this year talking about what needs to change. It doesn't even matter that the Colts went 6-3 with their backup...that's great...but you missed the playoffs in a *-poor division and fans were calling for changes all year long. You make it sound like that didn't happen, and hasn't happened over the years. What, all of a sudden when a Patriots fan says it that means it wasn't true?

 

 

And not once did we ever talk about firing this guy or firing that guy or 'needing a change'...but unfortunately that has become the M.O. of the Colts fan on these forums over the years.

 

Derka derka, indeed.

So, what's your point again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Somebody on here mentioned before that Jim was the problem and I agree.  I'm no longer a Colts fan our owner is a * and these losers who will never build a team that will compete with the likes of the Pats and Steelers.  It'll be the same old song and dance. Jim go home and pop your pills because it's odious you don't care about this team so I don't either. So I guess will be the Clippers of the NFL in the old days. Luck please don't resign with this team if you care about winning and your health. 

 

I would like to take a different approach than the rest of the forum posters.

 

Lets play a game "let's make a deal".

 

so what I want to know is what will it take to keep you out? We want quality insightful forum members who give some though to what is posted before posting. We also want real fans you know not them fickle kind...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I'm still stunned that Jim I-rsay retained the services of both Chuck Pagano & Ryan Grigson. Is it possible that these 2 men now have a newfound appreciation for each other & that are giving each other more independence & autonomy to do their jobs?

 

Jim Irsay does not like conflict.  There is no question he sat them both down and there was an likely an 'airing of grievances'.  I'm sure over time he brokered a truce, and likely by somehow politely inserting his desire(s) at times without actually demanding it.

 

I heard a story Bill Polian once told about the 2003 draft.  Tony Dungy and Bill were going over the draft board, and Jim Irsay comes in. Jim asks them to cover their boards lists.  Then he asks Tony who he wants in round 1.  Tony says a DE from some Colorado University. ( I think it might have been Tyler Brayton, not really sure ).  Irsay looks to Bill, and Polian says if the DE is there and they took him, he would be OK with that. Fine choice. That the player would make the defense better.  But if it were really up to him, he would take Dallas Clark, an every 6 year type TE and he would make the offense 'incrementally' better.

 

Jim Irsay says to them to continue to do what you're doing, that's why you get the big bucks in pay.  But as he was exiting, he slows down, turns around and says 'if it were me, I'd take Dallas Clark'  and then leaves the room.  BP and TD look at each other, and say, 'well, I guess we know who we are taking in round one now!'. 

 

Every time I hear an Irsay story, it shows me he is not rash, does not make hasty decisions, and is smart in his choices.  I do not believe it is any different now,

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Jim Irsay does not like conflict.  There is no question he sat them both down and there was an likely an 'airing of grievances'.  I'm sure over time he brokered a truce, and likely by somehow politely inserting his desire(s) at times without actually demanding it.

 

I heard a story Bill Polian once told about the 2003 draft.  Tony Dungy and Bill were going over the draft board, and Jim Irsay comes in. Jim asks them to cover their boards lists.  Then he asks Tony who he wants in round 1.  Tony says a DE from some Colorado University. ( I think it might have been Tyler Brayton, not really sure ).  Irsay looks to Bill, and Polian says if the DE is there and they took him, he would be OK with that. Fine choice. That the player would make the defense better.  But if it were really up to him, he would take Dallas Clark, an every 6 year type TE and he would make the offense 'incrementally' better.

 

Jim Irsay says to them to continue to do what you're doing, that's why you get the big bucks in pay.  But as he was exiting, he slows down, turns around and says 'if it were me, I'd take Dallas Clark'  and then leaves the room.  BP and TD look at each other, and say, 'well, I guess we know who we are taking in round one now!'. 

 

Every time I hear an Irsay story, it shows me he is not rash, does not make hasty decisions, and is smart in his choices.  I do not believe it is any different now,

 

I shared that story here at the forum yesterday afternoon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I missed it!  Cool that we both thought the same concerning the Grigson / Pagano issue and Irsay.

Yup, when I shared the story yesterday, it was in the context of making the point that it's a misnomer that Grigson has been unilaterally making player decisions to be imposed upon Pagano.  I view all that noise as a bunch of b.s. unsubstatiated hearsay.   I can see no world in which both Pagano and Grigson are not heavily involved in player decisions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

 

Perhaps that speaks to a bigger problem then...

 

My point is only this: Manning covered up a LOT of issues that this team had during his time here, and only when he was gone did they reveal themselves. So the Colts hit the jackpot and get the ultimate do-over by drafting Luck, yet here we are AGAIN this year talking about what needs to change. It doesn't even matter that the Colts went 6-3 with their backup...that's great...but you missed the playoffs in a *-poor division and fans were calling for changes all year long. You make it sound like that didn't happen, and hasn't happened over the years. What, all of a sudden when a Patriots fan says it that means it wasn't true?

 

 

And not once did we ever talk about firing this guy or firing that guy or 'needing a change'...but unfortunately that has become the M.O. of the Colts fan on these forums over the years.

 

Derka derka, indeed.

 

If you're saying some fans here are spoiled and will grumble about anything, then yes, I agree with you.  NE is fortunate that you have the team and organization you do.  But start to lose and your fan base will soon be showing the same colors as ours.  That's just what fans do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Jim Irsay does not like conflict.  There is no question he sat them both down and there was an likely an 'airing of grievances'.  I'm sure over time he brokered a truce, and likely by somehow politely inserting his desire(s) at times without actually demanding it.

 

I heard a story Bill Polian once told about the 2003 draft.  Tony Dungy and Bill were going over the draft board, and Jim Irsay comes in. Jim asks them to cover their boards lists.  Then he asks Tony who he wants in round 1.  Tony says a DE from some Colorado University. ( I think it might have been Tyler Brayton, not really sure ).  Irsay looks to Bill, and Polian says if the DE is there and they took him, he would be OK with that. Fine choice. That the player would make the defense better.  But if it were really up to him, he would take Dallas Clark, an every 6 year type TE and he would make the offense 'incrementally' better.

 

Jim Irsay says to them to continue to do what you're doing, that's why you get the big bucks in pay.  But as he was exiting, he slows down, turns around and says 'if it were me, I'd take Dallas Clark'  and then leaves the room.  BP and TD look at each other, and say, 'well, I guess we know who we are taking in round one now!'. 

 

Every time I hear an Irsay story, it shows me he is not rash, does not make hasty decisions, and is smart in his choices.  I do not believe it is any different now,

 

Your Dallas Clark story is a clever one about how NFL owners can & do drop such not so subtle hints CBFL. Jim certainly knows how to let people who work for him what is & what is not acceptable to him on a daily basis that's for sure. I'm just glad we have an owner who is driven to win & he isn't afraid to step in when he is unhappy about a bump in the road that's not being addressed to his satisfaction. 

 

I just want Pags & Grigs to know that our AFC South competition is getting better & our team can't rest on our division title laurels anymore. Plus, I want to find a way to beat Pittsburg & NE without getting defeated soundly by them almost every time we face them making darn sure we have a qualified backup QB in 2016 since Hasselbeck is gone now. I want results not cheap slogans & pep rally talk nonsense. 

 

Ryan Grigson if you draft yet another WR in the draft again...I will personally strangle you myself. Christmas is over & business is business: Give Luck & Gore a respectable line for 16 weeks next season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just watched the joint Colts press conference with Chuck, Ryan, & Jim. Here are my thoughts...

 

--I wanted Jim to elaborate on the "We need to get younger" statement. What positions are we talking about exactly? Are we bringing in a proven o-line specialist? 

 

--It is possible to separate likability for a person vs whether you think that head coach can cross the finish line & have the confetti fall off his shoulders. Do I like Chuck? Sure. Do I think he can lead us to the Promise Land? The nicest thing I can say is I have my reservations. 

 

--Is Grigson's ability to save us from salary cap dead money hades in 2012 enough to keep him in the fold as GM? No, not in my mind. But, I'm not signing his check either Jimmy is. 

 

--The Presser was basically a love feast group hug among 3 grown men & not much else to me. Chuck survived cancer, is humbled by Hoosier compassion, & his owner runs an organization where nobody gets bullied. Okay. Just find a way to keep Chewy upright, beat NE, & find a way to not get humiliated by the Steelers please. That's all I care about. Leave the bro m-ance stuff at home. JMO. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, dynasty13 said:

Sometimes I wonder how much more fan outrage there would be if the Colts hadn't lucked into drafting at #1 the two years that it actually mattered. This franchise has been given two golden tickets over the last 20 years, and even with the advantage of rare stability at the quarterback position during that time, for one reason or another they just can't seem to figure out how to build the rest of the team. Can you even imagine how bad this franchise would have been during this time if they hadn't been gifted not one, but two franchise quarterbacks???

 

If a team like the Jets, for example, had Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck, they probably would have been the next great dynasty...instead they are stuck in a perennial search for a quarterback that can take them to that next step...much like 80% of the league. Don't be milquetoast...something just isn't working there.

Actually I don't have to imagine. All I need to do is remember.

From 1978, end of healthy Bert Jones era to 1998 Manning era we had only 5 winning seasons and never won more than 9 games! And had a span of 9 consecutive losing seasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/5/2016 at 9:56 PM, superrep1967 said:

Somebody on here mentioned before that Jim was the problem and I agree.  I'm no longer a Colts fan our owner is a * and these losers who will never build a team that will compete with the likes of the Pats and Steelers.  It'll be the same old song and dance. Jim go home and pop your pills because it's odious you don't care about this team so I don't either. So I guess will be the Clippers of the NFL in the old days. Luck please don't resign with this team if you care about winning and your health. 

:facepalm: Say what what you want about Jim's issues outside of the game but as an NFL owner I think Jim has a lot of respect. Yes, he's different. He isnt your typical owner but make no mistake about it he's a smart guy with a ton of football knowledge. I'm quite sure that Jim explored every option available prior to deciding to retain Grigson and Chuck. I think the fact of the matter is that there just wasnt a glaringly better option at HC than Chuck. This isnt a situation like 2002 when Tony Dungy fell into their laps. Time will tell how this decision ends up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, theanarchist said:

:facepalm: Say what what you want about Jim's issues outside of the game but as an NFL owner I think Jim has a lot of respect. Yes, he's different. He isnt your typical owner but make no mistake about it he's a smart guy with a ton of football knowledge. I'm quite sure that Jim explored every option available prior to deciding to retain Grigson and Chuck. I think the fact of the matter is that there just wasnt a glaringly better option at HC than Chuck. This isnt a situation like 2002 when Tony Dungy fell into their laps. Time will tell how this decision ends up.

I'm certainly not saying Jim Irsay does not have a lot of football knowledge. I think he does. How did he come by all that knowledge? I mean, who was it that gave up 2 first round draft picks (in different years) for LB Fredd Young when HE was GM? Part of knowledge is learning from your mistakes. Some of the best lessons are "fail early, fail often and fail small" on your way to success. The important point is "fail small". We'll see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching PTI the other day and they both point to Irsay as the problem with the Colts.  Of course, neither give any reason why.  

 

He's an easy target because of his tweets and past issues with drugs and certainly his eclectic penchants, but if you look at him as what he does as an owner, I think he's one of the best.  He doesn't burn through coaches and GMs.  His team has been stable and a consistent winner for going on a couple decades (let that one sink in).  He's not a glory grabber like Jones or interferes with the running of the team (as far as I can tell).  He seems to treat people well as I have not heard any stories of him acting the jerk with someone.

 

Again, it's just lazy journalism that has given him a bad rep.  He had one public indiscretion and that was it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

52 minutes ago, cbear said:

Watching PTI the other day and they both point to Irsay as the problem with the Colts.  Of course, neither give any reason why.  

 

He's an easy target because of his tweets and past issues with drugs and certainly his eclectic penchants, but if you look at him as what he does as an owner, I think he's one of the best.  He doesn't burn through coaches and GMs.  His team has been stable and a consistent winner for going on a couple decades (let that one sink in).  He's not a glory grabber like Jones or interferes with the running of the team (as far as I can tell).  He seems to treat people well as I have not heard any stories of him acting the jerk with someone.

 

Again, it's just lazy journalism that has given him a bad rep.  He had one public indiscretion and that was it.

 

I don't have any specifics, but I heard several years ago that Wilbon has some sort of issue with Irsay anyway. I'm thinking he's probably always willing to point the finger in Irsay's direction regardless of the issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Indygal1218 said:

 

 

I don't have any specifics, but I heard several years ago that Wilbon has some sort of issue with Irsay anyway. I'm thinking he's probably always willing to point the finger in Irsay's direction regardless of the issue.

Bingo! Wilburn has always had a problem with Irsay and the Colts. It magnified this season with how the media put forth the deflate issue and skewed the facts that turned it into the Colts fault.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Bingo! Wilburn has always had a problem with Irsay and the Colts. It magnified this season with how the media put forth the deflate issue and skewed the facts that turned it into the Colts fault.

 

The constant ragging on the team was part of what made me quit watching that show a few years ago.

 

I know that opinions and debates are part of the whole premise but sometimes you have to quit punishing yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...