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Pagano agrees to a contract extension, Grigson retained [Mega-merge]


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10 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

All we can do is speculate since the Indy media doesn't seem to have very reliable sources. I for one don't really buy all the "Grigson is an evil dictator" talk. As far as I can tell, the media blew that way out of proportion. If it was anywhere near as bad as they made it sound, Pagano wouldn't have even wanted the extension, he would've just taken an offer somewhere else and washed his hands of Irsay and Grigson. Not only were they dead wrong about that, but were wrong about Chuck getting fired today as well. They were certain of it, reports coming out about it all over the place. That's 2 HUGE Colts stories within 7 days, fed from "sources close to the team," that basically ended up being completely wrong.

 

Players sources are pretty reliable though.  Numerous anonymous players said things.  Given that they are anonymous.

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12 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

I don't buy that for one second.  Every media outlet - national or local - was proclaiming there were issues between Grigson & Pagano.  Literally everyone had Pagano out of work.  I don't believe for a second that everyone had it wrong.  I just think the story changed throughout the day yesterday.  

 

Did any media divulge any real sources to their info? You could be right but I tend to think it snowballed with one so called "Source"  and all the other news outlets ran with it. I highly doublt Irsay is going to tell Krapitz or Doyel what his plans are. They hang out at the facility all day for 1 second of juicy information. To me they should have their media badges revoked for portraying something that started a media frenzy all over the NFL.

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11 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Irsay said there is no bullying his head coach not that it was stopping that's a big difference.

 

Also, I am assuming part of the reason Pagano looked so happy and Grigson so glum is Pagano won some control.  

 

Still, regardless they need to and I am sure will put their big boy pants on and work together to build a winner because Irsay made it very clear tonight they are now tied together so if one goes from now on the other probably goes.  It's now in their best interests to work together.  

 

1117151317_Fingers_crossed1_xlarge.jpeg

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I agree with you.  None of us knows how much of the rumors are actually true.  Regardless, you have to have a good reason to blow things up.  If mistakes were made then we have on our hands people who have learned from their mistakes and that is worth a lot.

 

Professionals work together and get the job done.  Looks like that is exactly what is expected.

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12 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

I don't buy that for one second.  Every media outlet - national or local - was proclaiming there were issues between Grigson & Pagano.  Literally everyone had Pagano out of work.  I don't believe for a second that everyone had it wrong.  I just think the story changed throughout the day yesterday.  

 

I think it was something out of middle school where two kids who have problems with each other get called into the office to discuss their behavior and rather than both of them get in trouble they agree to hash it out beforehand so they can convince the principle that everything is fine, and there's no reason to suspend anyone or call parents.

 

 The look both of them had on their faces says as much. 

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35 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

I don't buy that for one second.  Every media outlet - national or local - was proclaiming there were issues between Grigson & Pagano.  Literally everyone had Pagano out of work.  I don't believe for a second that everyone had it wrong.  I just think the story changed throughout the day yesterday.  

The story did change thru the day but most of the national media was following those clown's lead leading up to yesterday. No such thing as investigative reporting amongst those three.

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22 minutes ago, Blindside said:

 

Did any media divulge any real sources to their info? You could be right but I tend to think it snowballed with one so called "Source"  and all the other news outlets ran with it. I highly doublt Irsay is going to tell Krapitz or Doyel what his plans are. They hang out at the facility all day for 1 second of juicy information. To me they should have their media badges revoked for portraying something that started a media frenzy all over the NFL.

 

Yeah, that is a bunch of nonsense.

 

1) Are you suggesting the media should tell who their sources are?

2) I believe anyone who thinks this was one source spraying all the info is delusional

3) Revoking media badges - brilliant idea there.

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4 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

I think Jim's point wasn't so much to compare Grigson to Polian, but to point out that Polian/Manning had problems in their early years, too.  I've had the same thought -- and I think highly of Polian (not so much of Grigson).

 

I don't think the message was supposed to be Grigson > Polian.  I think the message was supposed to be: Polian's a hall of fame GM, and he had rough spots too.

This s correct. Way too many people have taken it way out of context.

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6 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Yeah, that is a bunch of nonsense.

 

1) Are you suggesting the media should tell who their sources are?

2) I believe anyone who thinks this was one source spraying all the info is delusional

3) Revoking media badges - brilliant idea there.

 

To your second point. Kravitz said he had 5 separate sources and Holder had something like that too. Also, former GM Joe Banner confirmed the rumors too. 

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The only reason this is such a big surprise is because the media concocted a new reality that was based on rumor, innuendo and unnamed sources.  Say it enough times, read it enough times,  and there you have your classic perception becoming reality.  Makes you wonder if we really went to the moon or not!

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14 hours ago, CR91 said:

I'm fine with grigs staying #keepchuck

I'm not.  Griggs is a cancer and needs to be gone.  Nobody, except Irsay likes this guy and his moves are so baffling.  OL has not been addressed properly to protect the franchise, this alone should have been enough for Irsay to fire this *.   

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9 minutes ago, Sting said:

I'm not.  Griggs is a cancer and needs to be gone.  Nobody, except Irsay likes this guy and his moves are so baffling.  OL has not been addressed properly to protect the franchise, this alone should have been enough for Irsay to fire this *.   

 

ugh im getting sick and tired of repeating myself. im gonna give you a list of olineman grigs has brought in

 

salate

mcgylnn

louis

mewhort

thornton

holmes 

harrison

john

good

anderson

thomas

essex

herramans

justice

 

Im missing a bunch of other olineman, but ive made my point. he has borught in olineman, unforunately they either dont pan out or their injured. it happens. you cant just ignore one area and not discuss all the good things hes done

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9 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

ugh im getting sick and tired of repeating myself. im gonna give you a list of olineman grigs has brought in

 

salate

mcgylnn

louis

mewhort

thornton

holmes 

harrison

john

good

anderson

thomas

essex

herramans

 

Im missing a bunch of other olineman, but ive made my point. he has borught in olineman, unforunately they either dont pan out or their injured. it happens. you cant just ignore one area and not discuss all the good things hes done

 

Everyone on your list, outside of Mewhort, and possibly Thornton suck.  Castanzo, the best Olineman was not even his pick.  You just made a great argument for actually getting rid of Griggs.  Thank You.

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1 minute ago, Sting said:

 

Everyone on your list, outside of Mewhort, and possibly Thornton suck.  Castanzo, the best Olineman was not even his pick.  You just made a great argument for actually getting rid of Griggs.  Thank You.

 

my argument is about how you said he hasnt tried to address the o-line which is wrong. he has tried. youre not gonna get it right with every player

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5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

my argument is about how you said he hasnt tried to address the o-line which is wrong. he has tried. youre not gonna get it right with every player

Grigg's Oline destroyed our 2nd and 3rd string QB's and couldn't run block for crap.  I guess my expectations are much higher than yours. Griggs is not good, Irsay made a mistake in retaining him.  To me, his number one job was protecting the franchise, he failed miserably.  Most of the guys you mentioned were journeymen or lower round draft picks, that doesn't cut it when trying to protect the best player and only hope for this franchise to win a SB.

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1 minute ago, Sting said:

Grigg's Oline destroyed our 2nd and 3rd string QB's and couldn't run block for crap.  I guess my expectations are much higher than yours. Griggs is not good, Irsay made a mistake in retaining him.  To me, his number one job was protecting the franchise, he failed miserably.  Most of the guys you mentioned were journeymen or lower round draft picks, that doesn't cut it when trying to protect the best player and only hope for this franchise to win a SB.

 

no its just your expectations are unrealistic. you cant expect everything to be addressed. the dline and run defense was huge complaint on this forum and guess what it was address and now our dline is stacked. the oline isnt bad either. all we really need is a center. thornton and reitz are solid lineman

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33 minutes ago, cbear said:

The only reason this is such a big surprise is because the media concocted a new reality that was based on rumor, innuendo and unnamed sources.  Say it enough times, read it enough times,  and there you have your classic perception becoming reality.  Makes you wonder if we really went to the moon or not!

You had me until the very end.  Then I took the mouse off the like button lol

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6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

no its just your expectations are unrealistic. you cant expect everything to be addressed. the dline and run defense was huge complaint on this forum and guess what it was address and now our dline is stacked. the oline isnt bad either. all we really need is a center. thornton and reitz are solid lineman

I like Reitz, but he is made of glass.  We need a center and a RT.  There is really no argument for keeping Griggs.  TRich and Werner were also two huge mistakes where we couldn't afford mistakes in trying to rebuild this franchise.  The grease ball needs to be gone.

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25 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

ugh im getting sick and tired of repeating myself. im gonna give you a list of olineman grigs has brought in

 

salate

mcgylnn

louis

mewhort

thornton

holmes 

harrison

john

good

anderson

thomas

essex

herramans

justice

 

Im missing a bunch of other olineman, but ive made my point. he has borught in olineman, unforunately they either dont pan out or their injured. it happens. you cant just ignore one area and not discuss all the good things hes done

 

He swung and missed on everyone of those guys except for Mewhort as starters. Huge part of being a GM is to find starting caliber guys but none of them stuck. We can't rely on Joe Reitz to be our savior. We're not saying Grigson ignored the offensive line. He just didn't do a good enough job scouting these players.

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2 minutes ago, Sting said:

I like Reitz, but he is made of glass.  We need a center and a RT.  There is really no argument for keeping Griggs.  TRich and Werner were also two huge mistakes where we couldn't afford mistakes in trying to rebuild this franchise.  The grease ball needs to be gone.

 

and what about all the good players he got us

 

hiton

fleener

allen

vontae

freeman

jackson

adams

langford

parry

anderson

walden

mewhort

thornton

moncrief

butler

 

again youre ignoring all the good hes done

 

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2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

He swung and missed on everyone of those guys except for Mewhort as starters. Huge part of being a GM is to find starting caliber guys but none of them stuck. We can't rely on Joe Reitz to be our savior. We're not saying Grigson ignored the offensive line. He just didn't do a good enough job scouting these players.

 

you cant expect to get everyone you bring in the building to be correct. its hard to find starting caliber talent

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Just now, CR91 said:

 

you cant expect to get everyone you bring in the building to be correct. its hard to find starting caliber talent

 

That can be agreed on to a certain extent but by his 4th year, he should have more than 2 starting caliber offensive linemen by now. We had Castonzo already before Grigson. 4 years later, we have Mewhort. He can't afford to not find starting caliber talent anymore. He has ran the well dry.

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I may be wrong, but I believe with both of them staying, and the one goes, both go tie down will force them to get along.  I think Grigson overstepped boundaries, and tried doing the best thing in his mind rather the best for the team.  Again, I may be wrong, but I see this as a turning point for this franchise.  Regardless, who was going to be GM or HC, Colts ARE going to protect Luck from here on out.  They finally understand a (very talented QB) means nothing without a solid OL.  Not only did he get hurt, but they never had time to throw the ball downfield and make plays with the playmakers they have.

 

IMO, finding an elite pass rusher should be #1 priority this season, but I wouldn't bat an eye to go "all-in" with OL talent this offseason.  I'm talking C, RG, & RT.  I do think we should move Reitz to G draft a T in the first and perhaps a C in the 3rd.  Throw big money at somebody who fits our 3-4 scheme as a pass rusher in FA, then maybe drafting another in the 2nd.  I know there are other needs, but it's a sticky situation we have been in for far too long.  With fixing these 2 areas (assuming most players stay healthy), and staff working TOGETHER, I don't see why this team doesn't have the same expectations as they did this season, and be able to reach it.

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27 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

my argument is about how you said he hasnt tried to address the o-line which is wrong. he has tried. youre not gonna get it right with every player

If Incognito or Collins were on that list I wouldn't be as angry as I am now. Didn't take a single meeting with Incognito or use that 7th on Collins. "Protect 12" my foot. Should read "CFL and diamonds in the rough only".

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I believe all the reports even more now since it seems Pagano was not blamed for many of the bad things that happened and I think my point I made to several on here was also correct, which was:  

 

Q. Who out there has more wins or success and is available to coach this team? 

 

A. Obviously no one.  Thus Chuck stays.  

 

Now I wish we'd dumped Grigson, but common sense suggests that with a 4 year contract, no matter what you believed in the past about Grigson taking unfair/inappropriate control, it is far less likely that behavior will continue going forward.  Perhaps Grigson will now focus on what needs to be done to fix this very flawed team.  And next year, even with a brutal schedule,  we can win the division and after playing so many playoff teams, we'll be ready to win in the playoffs.  

 

Let's all hope.  Now on to the draft talk while most of us root for whoever is playing against the Patriots.  

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34 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

and what about all the good players he got us

 

hiton

fleener

allen

vontae

freeman

jackson

adams

langford

parry

anderson

walden

mewhort

thornton

moncrief

butler

 

again youre ignoring all the good hes done

 

 

 

Well jury is still out on guys like Parry, Anderson and Moncrief. Others like Butler are serviceable guys but not great players. Fleener for example wasn't that productive blame it on misuse of the coaching staff but he isn't in the same league with Gronk and Co. Don't get me wrong Grigson made some good decisions but if you compare the good and the bad moves it results in a C at best for Grigson. He is an average GM but somehow people still think the Colts are a better team than they are. They are not. And if they can't fix the Offensive Line next season they should show Grigson the door. 

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Just now, austriancolt said:

 

 

Well jury is still out on guys like Parry, Anderson and Moncrief. Others like Butler are serviceable guys but not great players. Fleener for example wasn't that productive blame it on misuse of the coaching staff but he isn't in the same league with Gronk and Co. Don't get me wrong Grigson made some good decisions but if you compare the good and the bad moves it results in a C at best for Grigson. He is an average GM but somehow people still think the Colts are a better team than they are. They are not. And if they can't fix the Offensive Line next season they should show Grigson the door. 

I don't think the jury is out on any of them. They've all shown flashes of brilliance and every fan is excited about them all reaching their potential.

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15 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

I think this is the best decision right now. Don't need a new regime tearing apart the decent team that is built now. Hopefully Grigson seeing his star quarterback go down makes him go all out on the offensive line. Let Chud run his own offense next year. Defense was a lot better this year and hopefully with a more efficient offense and a good second corner , it will be even better. Either way I'm sticking with the team no matter what and I'm not going to overreact.

I agree.

 

I've seen MANY years as a Colts fan worse than this, and I didn't stop watching them then when they truly sucked. I won't stop now. For those wanting to "boycott" the season, go for it, we won't miss you.

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38 minutes ago, bababooey said:

If Incognito or Collins were on that list I wouldn't be as angry as I am now. Didn't take a single meeting with Incognito or use that 7th on Collins. "Protect 12" my foot. Should read "CFL and diamonds in the rough only".

 

You people that still think the Colts should have been the one team to use a draft pick on Collins

make me want to hurl.
 And Incognito did not fit our culture. Period!
He is a 32 year old FA now, and i doubt we look at him this time around.

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9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He made an ill-advised comparison with Ryan Grigson and Bill Polian.     Basically said Grigson's first four years as GM are better than Polians.

 

I'm very, very sorry he said that.    He looks terrible for saying that.   And Grigson looks bad too.     No one compares those two.     Goodness,  that's a bad, bad mistake.

 

Here's one story about it...........

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/1/5/10713744/jim-irsay-says-ryan-grigson-has-outdone-bill-polian-to-start-tenure-with-colts

 

I don't get it. The Colts from 2012-15 have accomplished more than the Colts from 1998-2001. It's not debatable. 

 

The 2001 Colts lost Edgerrin James and then went 6-10. Irsay fired Mora and hired Dungy. He did NOT fire Polian, or even consider it.

 

The 2015 Colts lost Andrew Luck, and went 8-8. Irsay considered his staff, and decided to stay put. All things being equal -- and of course, they're not -- the accomplishments of the guys in place now justify his decision.

 

Irsay did NOT say Grigson is a better GM than Polian. To me, it's not even a controversial statement. 

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19 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

You people that still think the Colts should have been the one team to use a draft pick on Collins

make me want to hurl.
 And Incognito did not fit our culture. Period!
He is a 32 year old FA now, and i doubt we look at him this time around.

Do NOT ever tell me no one fits our culture. That's such a stupid excuse. The guy was out of football. If Grigson takes a meeting and tells him he doesn't want ANY screwing around, the guy who learned his lesson will toe the line, as evidenced by him being a good teammate and contributor in Buffalo, playing the position we definitely would have benefitted from him in. You act like bullying is the worst thing in the world considering some of the atrocities (Vick, Burress, Hardy) that have been committed by NFL players. If you can play and win then that's all forgotten, he did his time, apologized, learned his lesson and was humbled, and then was given a second chance and you didn't hear anything bad about him.

 

As for Collins there was the chance he wasn't in trouble at all as he wasn't a suspect he just had bad timing when he wanted to be spoken to. Either way, don't use the 7th on an OL you can sign a day later when he goes undrafted, use it on Collins so we have his exclusive rights. Call his bluff about sitting out and doing nothing, possibly getting out of shape, opening himself up to get in trouble, and hurting his draft stock during the next year. Either way no one else can use him against you like if he goes to a division or conference opponent. At least then you have done all you can to "Protect 12".

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5 hours ago, SilentHill said:

 

But, they were Chris's draft picks.... so.....

 

I know that Bill had turned over a lot of duties to Chris by that time.  But the notion that Bill didn't retain final say over draft picks?

 

Yeah, I'm not buying that at all.  If so, then why were the Colts still paying Bill?

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