Gruden/Shanahan interested in colts HC job [Merge]

[OffensivelyPC]

42 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

I'm always leery of a Coach that isn't coaching by his own choice for a prolonged absence.  It went well for Vermeil, but I don't have an overall positive association with it.  A coach can't not coach...you get off schedule and your mind/body doesn't really want to pay the price it used to once you get out of rhythm.  Or, they get used to an easier rhythm. 

 

Cowher left for the right reasons, family reasons, but I think the reason he doesn't come back is that he knows he doesn't want to pay that price anymore.

Yeah, I'm not saying its my first choice.  I was just illustrating that the fact he's not in coaching isn't because he is unable to coach.  What my concern is, not only what you stated, but how he adapts and how long it would take him to adapt to all that he's missed over the past 6 years. For instance, we could utilize elements of the Tampa 2, but it shouldn't be the focal point, otherwise, we'd just set ourselves back another couple years going back to our old defense.

[iLoveMyBoys]

#ChuckStrong

[King Colt]

Tried to paste the www.cbssports.com article on the Colts talking to Sean Peyton and Nick Saban written today but it did not work. So go to it  to read.

 

 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Like you, and not that it matters one iota, am not afraid of his failings in Denver.  I can't imagine that he went through that experience and failed to learn from it.  That has to make him a better coach for his next stop.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27405001/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-admits-mistakes-when-broncos-coach

 

I assume he did learn from it, and he's said as much. He walked in trying to run his program the way Belichick had run the Pats, and he didn't have any standing with which to do so. There's another thread talking about how Belichick won 3 SBs in his first five years in New England, basically earning him the right to do whatever he wanted, personnel-wise.

 

McDaniels was a 32 year old with no resume. He came in and immediately alienated the young, promising QB and his favorite receiver. The locker room was fractured from the beginning. I imagine he'd do things differently if he had a do-over.

 

However, more concerning to me is his one year in St. Louis. Not that he had any talent on the offense, but they were terrible when he was there.

[ztboiler]

On 1/4/2016 at 10:32 PM, OffensivelyPC said:

Yeah, I'm not saying its my first choice.  I was just illustrating that the fact he's not in coaching isn't because he is unable to coach.  What my concern is, not only what you stated, but how he adapts and how long it would take him to adapt to all that he's missed over the past 6 years. For instance, we could utilize elements of the Tampa 2, but it shouldn't be the focal point, otherwise, we'd just set ourselves back another couple years going back to our old defense.

I'll double right back and say that Gruden remains a very intriguing coach to me despite all of that.

[cbear]

4 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Lol and what has Pagano done? We just want proven winners; guys that went to the big game and won it instead of blowing their load early in the playoffs.

 

You tell me what Pagano's done.  You know as well as I do.  But I get it.  Those who want him out will probably have expected him to win the SB with Hasselback as QB this season.

[krunk]

Hue Jackson runs variations of the Air Coryell along with some other stuff.  Wondering if he'd keep Chudzinski or would he call his own plays?  I do like that Jackson likes to run the football.  I know with Marvin Lewis they run a 4-3 with bigger personnel on the D line.  Not sure if he'd move us to that or stay with the 3-4.  I don't know if I see enough success on a head coaching level to make me feel comfortable overall.

[jskinnz]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_27405001/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-admits-mistakes-when-broncos-coach

 

I assume he did learn from it, and he's said as much. He walked in trying to run his program the way Belichick had run the Pats, and he didn't have any standing with which to do so. There's another thread talking about how Belichick won 3 SBs in his first five years in New England, basically earning him the right to do whatever he wanted, personnel-wise.

 

McDaniels was a 32 year old with no resume. He came in and immediately alienated the young, promising QB and his favorite receiver. The locker room was fractured from the beginning. I imagine he'd do things differently if he had a do-over.

 

However, more concerning to me is his one year in St. Louis. Not that he had any talent on the offense, but they were terrible when he was there.

 

i think you are in California, right?  One of the real treats in Indy Sports talk is Rick Venturi.  On 1070 the Fan several times per week.  I assume you know him but find his podcasts if not.  He said last week that the 3 brightest football minds that he has ever worked with are Saban, BB, & Gruden.

 

I would love to see Saban in Indy.

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

i think you are in California, right?  One of the real treats in Indy Sports talk is Rick Venturi.  On 1070 the Fan several times per week.  I assume you know him but find his podcasts if not.  He said last week that the 3 brightest football minds that he has ever worked with are Saban, BB, & Gruden.

 

I would love to see Saban in Indy.

 

I listen to Venturi from time to time online. Nothing revolutionary, but he talks about basic football stuff, without all the nonsense that the hosts like to focus on. I like that. He was right on from the beginning of the season on a lot of stuff about this team, including them just not being good enough to be talking about the SB the way they were.

 

As for Saban, I've heard Venturi talk about how much he respects him. The guy is obviously a good football coach. But I think he's more Parcells than Belichick, in terms of his ideal approach to the game. I just look at the guys he sends to the NFL, and aside from the WRs, it's big, thick, power players, guys who are good inside the numbers, but struggle in space. Mark Barron moving to linebacker is a perfect representation of what I'm talking about.

 

And pretty much every team that has beat Alabama has done so by spreading them out on defense and forcing their LBs to try to catch your athletic QB; then on defense, you just have to try to trade blows for long enough. It's great for SEC matchups, but it's not ideal for the NFL. It's pretty much what Pagano started off talking about in Indy, and then adjusted over time. I think the Colts are pretty good in a phone booth already (a Venturi phrase), maybe would be better with Saban since he's probably better than Pagano. I just don't like that style. 

 

I think we should be stretching the field in all directions on offense, and we should have athletes, particularly in the middle of the field, on defense. Not guys like Donta Hightower, but guys like Eric Kendricks. I don't think that's Saban's style.

[buccolts]

21 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

i think you are in California, right?  One of the real treats in Indy Sports talk is Rick Venturi.  On 1070 the Fan several times per week.  I assume you know him but find his podcasts if not.  He said last week that the 3 brightest football minds that he has ever worked with are Saban, BB, & Gruden.

 

I would love to see Saban in Indy.

 

I just really couldn't stomach Gruden.

 

I'm mixed on Saban, and that has nothing to do with his stint in Miami, but I just can't put my finger on it. Perhaps, it's the personallity he shares with BB. 

 

Anyway, sticking on the Saban thought, some mention they're not thrilled with his age. Would you think Kiffin comes with him? I'm really mixed on him. He's seemed to have done a great job with the 'Bama offense, but he seems like such a slime back from his past. He'd be young enough to take the reigns over once Saban retired. 

 

Yeah, thinking WAAAAAY down the road.

 

To the topic: Big no to Gruden. Shanahan? Not Mike, but what about his son (forgot first name)?

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, buccolts said:

Shanahan? Not Mike, but what about his son (forgot first name)?

 

He's with the Falcons, and he's been pretty terrible, IMO.

[Defjamz26]

3 hours ago, loudnproudcolt said:

Everybody talking about how Gruden won with Dungy's players. True, but Dungy was let go because he could not get those players to the Superbowl. He did it the first year with Brad Johnson as his QB. With that QB, quite amazing. Also he would have had the Raiders in the SB the year before, if not for the terrible call on the field reversing Brady's fumble, the reason why the tuck rule was founded. He did that with Rich Gannon, who had a fantastic year. Also, remember the Buc's had to trade a first round pick to get Gruden.

 

What is undeniable is he can coach QB's while making teams very good according to the past!

There were also other coaches who were told not to take the job because of the salary cap issues that were looming. And they actually traded 2 first round picks to get him.

 

Gruden literally boarded a sinking Titanic and got blamed for hitting an iceberg. 

[gacoop1]

If anyone, Shanahan is the unanimous choice. At least he recognizes talents better than our GM, HC and his staff put together.  

[Gavin]

Pass on both

[CanuckColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Jim H. said:

Gave this a bit of thought.  What term would be used to describe "less than worthless?"  LOL

Debt

[IinD]

I'd understand if Irsay went with a retread successful coach honestly. 

 

There are a lot of unproven first time candidates and unsuccessful retreads out there, but I'd totally understand if he brought in a proven winner, even if it's a guy that's been away from the game.

 

Someone who understands and knows already what it takes to win and will have no learning curve.

[Colts_Fan12]

I'd take Gruden with a DC of Mike Pettine or Ray Horton and the 3-4 they run 

[chrisfarley]

Gruden's last year or two (can't remember if it was just one year after winning it all or if it was two) were awful.  He lost players, the team was falling apart at the seams, just general bad-ness (as I recall).  So not sure what caused the decay and decline but I bet someone remembers that or can look it up (I'm too upset at our season right now to look it up).

[IinD]

15 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

Gruden's last year or two (can't remember if it was just one year after winning it all or if it was two) were awful.  He lost players, the team was falling apart at the seams, just general bad-ness (as I recall).  So not sure what caused the decay and decline but I bet someone remembers that or can look it up (I'm too upset at our season right now to look it up).

They were definitelyh headingt towards cap hell towardst he end of his tenure.

 

Also people forget Tampa gave up something like 2 firsts and 2 seconds and possibly more I think to acquire him. That will definitely put a dent in the talent you can obtain.

 

What they did was ride it into the ground. Similar to someone driving a car until the wheels fell off. That train wreck at the end was most likely going to happen regardless of who was at the helm because of bad cap and draft pick handling.

[Introspect]

8 hours ago, IVORYsDAD said:

#ChuckStrong

 

Can't live in the past dawg

[Valpo2004]

I'm not a huge fan of either of them but I'd rather have Shanny.

 

Shanny is at least well known for making a run game happen which is something we need.  

 

Only thing Gruden is known for is taking Dungy's team to the SB.  

[buck_hunter21]

12 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Yes he can because if he stays he's still under the same contract so if he isn't with indy he's fired

No

11 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

His contract is over.    

This

[jvan1973]

56 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

I'm not a huge fan of either of them but I'd rather have Shanny.

 

Shanny is at least well known for making a run game happen which is something we need.  

 

Only thing Gruden is known for is taking Dungy's team to the SB.  

You may want to look at Grudens time with the raiders

[ColtRider]

I'll also pass on both Shanahan & Gruden. Two dicy picks IMO. NFLfan pointed out Brian Billick. I agree. Don't know if he'll come out of broadcasting or not (his last 8 years). He's 61 and has a tremendous coaching background in the NFL. If not him, someone like him. The Colts should go after a hard-pounding HC that speaks softly & carries a big stick. Experienced, disciplined, and a thundering velvet hand. Billick has all of that. Just my 2 cents.

[Defjamz26]

10 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

Gruden's last year or two (can't remember if it was just one year after winning it all or if it was two) were awful.  He lost players, the team was falling apart at the seams, just general bad-ness (as I recall).  So not sure what caused the decay and decline but I bet someone remembers that or can look it up (I'm too upset at our season right now to look it up).

Look at my earlier posts in this topic. I layd it out.

 

The biggest mistake people make is acting like Gruden had all this control over the team and just did what he want, but he didn't. The GM that was there when he got there drove the team into the ground. Gruden was the fall guy even though they started making the playoffs again once he got a better GM.

 

As soon as you see someone say "all he did was take Dungy's team to the Super Bowl" you should automatically dismiss their opinion because they are clearly uninformed. Most of the anti-Gruden know very little about him