Hmmm. 8 - 8

[thecorn4]

The scariest thing about this whole offseason is this: we let Chuck walk, we keep Grigson, Big Jim needs to make a splash in his coaching search so he goes hard after Payton.  We end up giving draft picks to the Saints for Payton, who is still under contract.  Payton gets here and he wants personnel and coaching control, so Grigson is gone.  This thing could snowball quick..  Welcome to the offseason, COLTS NATION!!

[oldunclemark]

Remember when so many said 8-8 would win the division???

[John Waylon]

Well, I wish I could say it's a relief that it's over, but the truth is now it gets real tumultuous.

It'll be incredibly interesting to see the dirty laundry come out of the wood work now that the season has ended.

I'm betting Dwayne Allen will have some interesting comments about his time here, and this season in particular, before he begins training camp with a new team.

[mahagga73]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

Remember when so many said 8-8 would win the division???

Got to give the Texans credit, they pulled it together . 

[Jay Kirk]

10 hours ago, BrentMc11 said:

I am actually one of the few who do not slam on Greg Toler.  Yes he is injury prone, but the secondary, for what WE have as players: The defense is better with him than without him.  He HAS also had a bad year with coverage issues.

 

Hey, if I get to writing anymore I will totally agree with you!! HA HA HA!

When healthy is a jamming lock down type corner .Wouldn't have traded him and Davis combo last year for anyone.

[Port Adelaide]

In the words of Ken Hinkley "you get what you deserve"

[JPFolks]

17 hours ago, BOTT said:

A coaches record isn't always indicative of his talent.

 

 

Name a better indication of an NFL's coaches talent than his record, and then name one who is available and has that talent?

[krunk]

18 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Payton is bar far a better coach. To say otherwise is stupid.   There are many out there better.  Mike Shannahan, Adam Gase, Kyle Shannahan, Bill Cowher, Sean McDermott, Jim Harbaugh, Hue Jackson, Chud

 

The list is a mile long

if Payton were truly the better coach don't u think the results would show it at some point? Why is it they are missing the play offs again?

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Name a better indication of an NFL's coaches talent than his record, and then name one who is available and has that talent?

With that theory Robert Kraft shouldn't have hired Bill Belichick, Denver shouldn't have even considered Mike Shanahan, Seahawks should have passed over Pete Carroll, etc.... I'm not saying you don't look at their record, but you also have to look at the situation of each coach.

 

[BrentMc11]

18 hours ago, jaybird95 said:

 

He really proved his case getting blown out an unfathomable amount of times since he's been here.

Read what I wrote.  I did not imply anything here other than Grigson should go first.  Meddling GMs have no reason to tell the coach who to start.  The only GM that could do it IMO is Elway.

[BrentMc11]

17 hours ago, thecorn4 said:

The scariest thing about this whole offseason is this: we let Chuck walk, we keep Grigson, Big Jim needs to make a splash in his coaching search so he goes hard after Payton.  We end up giving draft picks to the Saints for Payton, who is still under contract.  Payton gets here and he wants personnel and coaching control, so Grigson is gone.  This thing could snowball quick..  Welcome to the offseason, COLTS NATION!!

I sure hope not!!  We have already given up draft choices....no more please!!

[JPFolks]

5 hours ago, BOTT said:

With that theory Robert Kraft shouldn't have hired Bill Belichick, Denver shouldn't have even considered Mike Shanahan, Seahawks should have passed over Pete Carroll, etc.... I'm not saying you don't look at their record, but you also have to look at the situation of each coach.

 

7 hours ago, JPFolks said:

Name a better indication of an NFL's coaches talent than his record, and then name one who is available and has that talent?

 

Okay, so using your theory, please name the candidate who has some criteria better than their record to use to hire them and who is available? That's the problem.  Pagano has the 5th best winning % in the NFL.. he'll be hired quickly should we fire him by another team.  Look, I have supported keeping Pagano all season until even I got fed up with him with 2 games to go... then he won those two games with less and less talent available and even when the playoff scenario was beyond hopeless week 17.  Sure, he wasn't the offensive coordinator nor did he work with those two couch potato QB's and make both look as sharp as most of the league's seasoned starters.  But I do believe he had a lot of input on the defense who played lights out and made the plays to win both those games.  He's got no star players outside our punter who didn't even make the pro bowl (nor did any Colt as far as I am aware).  Davis has been off all year and got hurt and was out leaving us with Toler and scrubs in the corner positions and they came through.  The team played hard and emotionally supported their coach.  41-23 and won 3 playoff games in his first three years.  Pagano may turn out to be like Marty Schottenheimer (sp?) who went 14-2 with the Chargers and was fired and they've been lousy ever since with a very solid Rivers at QB.  

 

I'd be for firing Pagano IF and only IF there were clearly better options clamoring to get here.  Not a trade for a heinously overrated Payton who is a bottom dweller, nor a 10 million dollar a year payout to ancient spoiled Saban who has won with NFL players on both lines and throughout the defense that are better than the Colts play with.  And those are likely the two best candidates that have been brought up by most.  Adam Gase?  Seriously? He wasn't ready in Denver and coached a mediocre Bears team this year.  All subpar options compared to a PROVEN Pagano... even with his flaws.  What he NEEDS is an upgraded GM who sticks to his own job and doesn't fail miserably on half or more of his picks especially in the early rounds.  His best work all happened in the first few months of his tenure when he drafted and also traded for Davis.  After that he's one of the weakest GM's in the league in my opinion and certainly not comparably good next to Pagano.  Realize that Luck was 2-5 this year.  Pagano took ancient or out of football backup QB's and a terrible line and overall roster to 6-3 without Luck around.  That's AMAZING! Had they squeaked into the playoffs where tiebreakers decided it, he'd be a Coach of the Year candidate.  

 

If he just fired the terrible guy who gives him the thumbs up on coaching challenges, I wouldn't have turned against him week 15.  Those bad moves were just egregious.  But in hindsight and past the frustration of those bad losses, heck, he's really a top notch coach and will a top candidate for most of the open jobs.  And he'll take Chud with him and if he has an average or better GM, he'll likely do well.  

[BOTT]

5 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

 

Okay, so using your theory, please name the candidate who has some criteria better than their record to use to hire them and who is available? That's the problem.  Pagano has the 5th best winning % in the NFL.. he'll be hired quickly should we fire him by another team.  Look, I have supported keeping Pagano all season until even I got fed up with him with 2 games to go... then he won those two games with less and less talent available and even when the playoff scenario was beyond hopeless week 17.  Sure, he wasn't the offensive coordinator nor did he work with those two couch potato QB's and make both look as sharp as most of the league's seasoned starters.  But I do believe he had a lot of input on the defense who played lights out and made the plays to win both those games.  He's got no star players outside our punter who didn't even make the pro bowl (nor did any Colt as far as I am aware).  Davis has been off all year and got hurt and was out leaving us with Toler and scrubs in the corner positions and they came through.  The team played hard and emotionally supported their coach.  41-23 and won 3 playoff games in his first three years.  Pagano may turn out to be like Marty Schottenheimer (sp?) who went 14-2 with the Chargers and was fired and they've been lousy ever since with a very solid Rivers at QB.  

 

I'd be for firing Pagano IF and only IF there were clearly better options clamoring to get here.  Not a trade for a heinously overrated Payton who is a bottom dweller, nor a 10 million dollar a year payout to ancient spoiled Saban who has won with NFL players on both lines and throughout the defense that are better than the Colts play with.  And those are likely the two best candidates that have been brought up by most.  Adam Gase?  Seriously? He wasn't ready in Denver and coached a mediocre Bears team this year.  All subpar options compared to a PROVEN Pagano... even with his flaws.  What he NEEDS is an upgraded GM who sticks to his own job and doesn't fail miserably on half or more of his picks especially in the early rounds.  His best work all happened in the first few months of his tenure when he drafted and also traded for Davis.  After that he's one of the weakest GM's in the league in my opinion and certainly not comparably good next to Pagano.  Realize that Luck was 2-5 this year.  Pagano took ancient or out of football backup QB's and a terrible line and overall roster to 6-3 without Luck around.  That's AMAZING! Had they squeaked into the playoffs where tiebreakers decided it, he'd be a Coach of the Year candidate.  

 

If he just fired the terrible guy who gives him the thumbs up on coaching challenges, I wouldn't have turned against him week 15.  Those bad moves were just egregious.  But in hindsight and past the frustration of those bad losses, heck, he's really a top notch coach and will a top candidate for most of the open jobs.  And he'll take Chud with him and if he has an average or better GM, he'll likely do well.  

That post is too long for me to read.  No offense....I'm a notoriously lazy forum member.

 

 

[jaybird95]

3 hours ago, BrentMc11 said:

Read what I wrote.  I did not imply anything here other than Grigson should go first.  Meddling GMs have no reason to tell the coach who to start.  The only GM that could do it IMO is Elway.

 

What makes you think I didn't read what you wrote? Read what I wrote. Maybe Grigson has been involved because Pagano has no idea what he's doing. The fact is, the years that Grigson has been involved in the lineup, we've went 11-5, and the year Pagano got some more autonomy, we went 8-8, and lost more games when we had Andrew. Couple that with Griff repeatedly going out on the field to fumble and Matt repeatedly starting when it was glaringly obvious he was out of gas (we would have won more games if we started Whitehurst), and it shows that Pagano doesn't quite understand who should be starting and who shouldn't be. How many times did we have to hear about lunch-pail guys and guys with grit? Seems like he would be a hard coach to manage when no one can do anything wrong and all are worthy of being praised as all-stars.

[JPFolks]

9 minutes ago, jaybird95 said:

 

What makes you think I didn't read what you wrote? Read what I wrote. Maybe Grigson has been involved because Pagano has no idea what he's doing. The fact is, the years that Grigson has been involved in the lineup, we've went 11-5, and the year Pagano got some more autonomy, we went 8-8, and lost more games when we had Andrew. Couple that with Griff repeatedly going out on the field to fumble and Matt repeatedly starting when it was glaringly obvious he was out of gas (we would have won more games if we started Whitehurst), and it shows that Pagano doesn't quite understand who should be starting and who shouldn't be. How many times did we have to hear about lunch-pail guys and guys with grit? Seems like he would be a hard coach to manage when no one can do anything wrong and all are worthy of being praised as all-stars.

Read my last long post that was too long for BOTT to read.  Perhaps it will offer another opinion supporting Jaybird.  

[throwing BBZ]

On 1/3/2016 at 0:34 PM, MB-ColtsFan said:

I believe those that wanted that got it...Pep got fired.

 

The Denver game with a transition OC and our franchise QB played what was arguably, the best showing of the season.  The very next game the franchise gets hurt and we're not able to compensate for that.  The knee-jerk reaction is that the HC has to go since we didn't make the playoffs, we have over achieved the last few years and we're really not that good.  I don't agree.

 

Pags has made his share of gaffs, and we have not beaten the elite teams in the playoffs, I agree.  I just think ChuckZinski deserves a full year to take this team to the next level.

 

My worst fear is we bring in a new HC who wants to convert to a 4-3.  We require staying in the hybrid 3-4 so we're not taking another 3-4 years building his defense.  Ugh...!

 

 Dude i gotta chuckle. We already are desperate for a speed rusher and better ILB`s and we Have a bad defense.  A lot of changes will come before we have a SB caliber D.
 I`ll take an excellent coordinator and build a Real D!

[MB-ColtsFan]

7 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Dude i gotta chuckle. We already are desperate for a speed rusher and better ILB`s and we Have a bad defense.  A lot of changes will come before we have a SB caliber D.
 I`ll take an excellent coordinator and build a Real D!

Did you respond to the correct post?  Nowhere in my post did i say we had a SB caliber D.  I merely stated that I didn't want us to convert back to a 4-3.  I wouldn't mind a new DC, but I wouldn't be mad if we stayed with Greg.