Hmmm. 8 - 8

[Jim H.]

Should the Colts win today...they will finish at 8 and 8 with:

-Starting QB out much of the season and playing hurt before going on IR

-Aging #1 running back, #2 back on IR (again)

-Bad/terrible starting CB in Toler

-Members of the secondary constantly injured

-Back-up QB's both beaten senseless behind bad OL

-Promising D-Line damaged by loss of Anderson

-Aging WR not playing to expectations

-#1 draft pick injured much of the year

 

So, although we all are yelling for wholesale changes...not so sure this is really a coaching/scheme problem.  The Colt's woes would really seem to be personnel (GM)/conditioning (CBA) related.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BrentMc11]

5 minutes ago, Jim H. said:

Should the Colts win today...they will finish at 8 and 8 with:

-Starting QB out much of the season and playing hurt before going on IR

-Aging #1 running back, #2 back on IR (again)

-Bad/terrible starting CB in Toler

-Members of the secondary constantly injured

-Back-up QB's both beaten senseless behind bad OL

-Promising D-Line damaged by loss of Anderson

-Aging WR not playing to expectations

-#1 draft pick injured much of the year

 

So, although we all are yelling for wholesale changes...not so sure this is really a coaching/scheme problem.  The Colt's woes would really seem to be personnel (GM)/conditioning (CBA) related.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jim I agree with almost all of this.  The next coach had better get a Super Bowl next year.(sarcasm)

 

I really think if we fired Grigson this would be the best.  Bring someone is who is not a pompous a** that can work with Pagano, and not meddle in game time.

 

It is really sad that at least 2 teams are already wanting Pagano.  We are riding him out of the town tarred and feathered.

 

People are tired of me saying saying this, but I will say it again.  "Be careful what you wish for..."

 

[JPFolks]

4 minutes ago, BrentMc11 said:

People are tired of me saying saying this, but I will say it again.  "Be careful what you wish for..."

 

Well, I have been saying it as well and we see things the same.  There are not any obvious upgrades to Pagano... so why get rid of him?  His record is outstanding and he'll be hired by the end of next week by Philly or TN or someone else who would LOVE to be in the playoffs and win 3 playoff games and have a horrible down year be 8-8, a better record than more than half the teams this year.  

[BOTT]

I'm sure Norv Turner made the argument that he made it to the AFC championship game with a backup QB.  There is more to look at when evaluating a coach than won/loss record and if they win a playoff game.

[Jim H.]

14 minutes ago, BrentMc11 said:

Jim I agree with almost all of this.  The next coach had better get a Super Bowl next year.(sarcasm)

 

I really think if we fired Grigson this would be the best.  Bring someone is who is not a pompous a** that can work with Pagano, and not meddle in game time.

 

It is really sad that at least 2 teams are already wanting Pagano.  We are riding him out of the town tarred and feathered.

 

People are tired of me saying saying this, but I will say it again.  "Be careful what you wish for..."

 

 

[Jim H.]

BMc - Which part do you disagree with?

[BrentMc11]

11 minutes ago, Jim H. said:

BMc - Which part do you disagree with?

I am actually one of the few who do not slam on Greg Toler.  Yes he is injury prone, but the secondary, for what WE have as players: The defense is better with him than without him.  He HAS also had a bad year with coverage issues.

 

Hey, if I get to writing anymore I will totally agree with you!! HA HA HA!

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, Jim H. said:

Should the Colts win today...they will finish at 8 and 8 with:

-Starting QB out much of the season and playing hurt before going on IR

-Aging #1 running back, #2 back on IR (again)

-Bad/terrible starting CB in Toler

-Members of the secondary constantly injured

-Back-up QB's both beaten senseless behind bad OL

-Promising D-Line damaged by loss of Anderson

-Aging WR not playing to expectations

-#1 draft pick injured much of the year

 

So, although we all are yelling for wholesale changes...not so sure this is really a coaching/scheme problem.  The Colt's woes would really seem to be personnel (GM)/conditioning (CBA) related.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what you saying?

Pagano's contract is up. He turned down a 1 year extension before season started. To bring him back it would take a multi-year contract, probably atleast 3 seasons.

You want the Colts to hitch their wagon to a coach that they think is in over his head for the next 3 or 4 seasons?

[Jim H.]

29 minutes ago, BrentMc11 said:

I am actually one of the few who do not slam on Greg Toler.  Yes he is injury prone, but the secondary, for what WE have as players: The defense is better with him than without him.  He HAS also had a bad year with coverage issues.

 

Hey, if I get to writing anymore I will totally agree with you!! HA HA HA!

:^)

 

[BrentMc11]

1 minute ago, Jim H. said:

:^)

 

HA HA!  Good stuff...:)

[CanuckColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jim H. said:

Should the Colts win today...they will finish at 8 and 8 with:

-Starting QB out much of the season and playing hurt before going on IR

-Aging #1 running back, #2 back on IR (again)

-Bad/terrible starting CB in Toler

-Members of the secondary constantly injured

-Back-up QB's both beaten senseless behind bad OL

-Promising D-Line damaged by loss of Anderson

-Aging WR not playing to expectations

-#1 draft pick injured much of the year

 

So, although we all are yelling for wholesale changes...not so sure this is really a coaching/scheme problem.  The Colt's woes would really seem to be personnel (GM)/conditioning (CBA) related.

Im just blown away that there is such a call to fire a coach who has never had a losing season, coached a team with obvious talent holes. Ron Rivera got to stick around. I don't see a coach to replace Pags that is an obvious upgrade. This is garbage plain and simple. This team is going to turn into Cleaveland if we're not careful. There is something to be said for consistency.

1 hour ago, Jim H. said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jim H.]

6 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

So what you saying?

Pagano's contract is up. He turned down a 1 year extension before season started. To bring him back it would take a multi-year contract, probably atleast 3 seasons.

You want the Colts to hitch their wagon to a coach that they think is in over his head for the next 3 or 4 seasons?

Just saying I believe the majority of issues are personnel-related and not necessarily to be placed at the feet of the coaching staff.  Who will the Colts find that is better than Pagano (don't say Chuckie, Cowher or any of that ilk - they are not what the team needs...and will never leave their cushy gigs)?  I'm not saying keep the current staff...just be sure you have realistic upgrades (by name) in mind.

[CR91]

personally I want pagano to be resign, but someone has to be the scape goat

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I think there are personnel issues as well as coaching. I don't think pagano should be rewarded just because griggs has not done his job too well.

As far as who we can we replace him with that is better should not be much of a problem. I really, really think it would be hard to hire a coach that is not more competent.

Hopefully we don't replace him with someone slightly better but a coach who can lead us to multiple championships. That should be the mind set for Irsay.

Let franchises like the browns, lions, dolphins etc... hire coaches like pagano.

[adubb84]

9 minutes ago, CR91 said:

personally I want pagano to be resign, but someone has to be the scape goat

Same here. The more I think about it the more obvious it is that there isn't really and available upgrade over him. I think it would speak volumes for our organization if we gave someone who had his hands tied more time to develop. Not really excited about having another new coach

[DougDew]

As I've said in my own thread that got merged into the saga thread.  No organization's progress has ever gone up in a straight line trajectory.  They usually always take a step backwards.  There is really no football reason to change HCs or GMs at this point...unless a better HC and/or GM is available.

 

The team got off to a bad start because the Jets and Bills attacked our QB and our QB and OC was not able to adjust.  The rest of the NFL has mirrored that strategy and the failure to handle or adjust to that has been the root of the problems all year.

 

People want heads to roll for that...when really all that is needed is a more flexible offensive scheme, better QB play, and probably a Center.

[Coltfreak]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Well, I have been saying it as well and we see things the same.  There are not any obvious upgrades to Pagano... so why get rid of him?  His record is outstanding and he'll be hired by the end of next week by Philly or TN or someone else who would LOVE to be in the playoffs and win 3 playoff games and have a horrible down year be 8-8, a better record than more than half the teams this year.  

you cant be serious

[JPFolks]

18 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

you cant be serious

100% serious and others seem to agree.  Who has a better coaching record in the NFL as a head coach than Pagano and is available?  Please name them.... 

[Coltfreak]

3 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

100% serious and others seem to agree.  Who has a better coaching record in the NFL as a head coach than Pagano and is available?  Please name them.... 

 

Any of them would with Luck.  How did he with a QB the equivalent of what the other available coaches had available to them?

 

Arians proved that Pags is over rated

 

[MB-ColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As I've said in my own thread that got merged into the saga thread.  No organization's progress has ever gone up in a straight line trajectory.  They usually always take a step backwards.  There is really no football reason to change HCs or GMs at this point...unless a better HC and/or GM is available.

 

The team got off to a bad start because the Jets and Bills attacked our QB and our QB and OC was not able to adjust.  The rest of the NFL has mirrored that strategy and the failure to handle or adjust to that has been the root of the problems all year.

 

People want heads to roll for that...when really all that is needed is a more flexible offensive scheme, better QB play, and probably a Center.

I believe those that wanted that got it...Pep got fired.

 

The Denver game with a transition OC and our franchise QB played what was arguably, the best showing of the season.  The very next game the franchise gets hurt and we're not able to compensate for that.  The knee-jerk reaction is that the HC has to go since we didn't make the playoffs, we have over achieved the last few years and we're really not that good.  I don't agree.

 

Pags has made his share of gaffs, and we have not beaten the elite teams in the playoffs, I agree.  I just think ChuckZinski deserves a full year to take this team to the next level.

 

My worst fear is we bring in a new HC who wants to convert to a 4-3.  We require staying in the hybrid 3-4 so we're not taking another 3-4 years building his defense.  Ugh...!

[JPFolks]

Arians is not available.  So you can't name a single one that is better.  Payton has HOFer Drew Brees and still bottom dwells in a bad division won with a losing record last year and not by them. 

[JPFolks]

3 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

 

Any of them would with Luck.  How did he with a QB the equivalent of what the other available coaches had available to them?

 

Arians proved that Pags is over rated

 

Arians is not available.  So you can't name a single one that is better.  Payton has HOFer Drew Brees and still bottom dwells in a bad division won with a losing record last year and not by them. 

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

I believe those that wanted that got it...Pep got fired.

 

The Denver game with a transition OC and our franchise QB played what was arguably, the best showing of the season.  The very next game the franchise gets hurt and we're not able to compensate for that.  The knee-jerk reaction is that the HC has to go since we didn't make the playoffs, we have over achieved the last few years and we're really not that good.  I don't agree.

 

Pags has made his share of gaffs, and we have not beaten the elite teams in the playoffs, I agree.  I just think ChuckZinski deserves a full year to take this team to the next level.

 

My worst fear is we bring in a new HC who wants to convert to a 4-3.  We require staying in the hybrid 3-4 so we're not taking another 3-4 years building his defense.  Ugh...!

Agreed.  The issue with Pagano is that his contract expires and has already rejected a one year extension.  I think the type of change that I and maybe you are proposing would be easier if Pagano was in the middle of his contract.

 

The issue is that the Colts need to find a HC because of current contract issues.....but everybody is reacting the way that we normally react when NFL teams are looking for a HC...that the team HC and GM suck.  That is simply not the case.

[jameszeigler834]

10 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

 

Any of them would with Luck.  How did he with a QB the equivalent of what the other available coaches had available to them?

 

Arians proved that Pags is over rated

 

I sh we would ve kept Arians maybe we would have that superbowl by now he is good with game plans Pagano is terrible which is why I don't see all the praise with him I know it sucked he had that issue with leukemia his first year but that is not an excuse for being terrible at your job. Also he cant game plan to save his life so give me a good reason to keep him I think there is atleast one coach out there I think would be a big upgrade over pagano I would take sean payton I know what yo are going to say he is terrible but the saints woes are not his fault they have a severe talent problem and an aging QB.

[jameszeigler834]

Correction wish my bad.

[gacker65]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

So what you saying?

Pagano's contract is up. He turned down a 1 year extension before season started. To bring him back it would take a multi-year contract, probably atleast 3 seasons.

You want the Colts to hitch their wagon to a coach that they think is in over his head for the next 3 or 4 seasons?

I say yes.  Give Coach Pagano a 3 year extension.  Let Pags choose his on staff.  Get a GM that will work with Pags.

[BOTT]

32 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

100% serious and others seem to agree.  Who has a better coaching record in the NFL as a head coach than Pagano and is available?  Please name them...

[BOTT]

32 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

100% serious and others seem to agree.  Who has a better coaching record in the NFL as a head coach than Pagano and is available?  Please name them.... 

A coaches record isn't always indicative of his talent.

 

32 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

100% serious and others seem to agree.  Who has a better coaching record in the NFL as a head coach than Pagano and is available?  Please name them.... 

 

[Coltfreak]

50 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Arians is not available.  So you can't name a single one that is better.  Payton has HOFer Drew Brees and still bottom dwells in a bad division won with a losing record last year and not by them. 

Payton is bar far a better coach. To say otherwise is stupid.   There are many out there better.  Mike Shannahan, Adam Gase, Kyle Shannahan, Bill Cowher, Sean McDermott, Jim Harbaugh, Hue Jackson, Chud

 

The list is a mile long

[aaron11]

Its not grigson's fault luck was hurt running 10 yards down the field.

[Coltfreak]

16 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

Its not grigson's fault luck was hurt running 10 yards down the field.

Whoa   be careful you cant blame Luck for anything on this board.  Its always Peps fault even now

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Im just blown away that there is such a call to fire a coach who has never had a losing season, coached a team with obvious talent holes. Ron Rivera got to stick around. I don't see a coach to replace Pags that is an obvious upgrade. This is garbage plain and simple. This team is going to turn into Cleaveland if we're not careful. There is something to be said for consistency.

 

Yep. I don't think we need to be like Cincy and keep around a guy that hasn't won a playoff game in 13 seasons, but firing a guy after his first "bad" season is a knee-jerk reaction that could have very dangerous long-term implications. There's no guarantee that Sean Payton would be as good of a fit as everyone seems to think. Saban's NFL tenure has been well-documented, and it wasn't pretty, so I'm not sure he'd be an upgrade either. I really hope that Irsay thinks long and hard about the decisions that he makes after today's game.

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

This ain't hard.  Grigson must go.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, Coltfreak said:

Payton is bar far a better coach. To say otherwise is stupid.   There are many out there better.  Mike Shannahan, Adam Gase, Kyle Shannahan, Bill Cowher, Sean McDermott, Jim Harbaugh, Hue Jackson, Chud

 

The list is a mile long

Wayne Fontes

[krunk]

Like I said keep Pagano, Keep Chudzinski as the OC.  Bring in Pettine, or Horton as the DC because I'm tired of Manusky.. I doubt you can keep Grigson in the fold unless you reduce his power.  If so then I don't have huge problems with him staying.  If you don't go that route then you need to look at a new Gm.

 

The rest is just is just adding one or two more O lineman and spending the rest of the draft on defense for the most part.

[AlanNC]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

Its not grigson's fault luck was hurt running 10 yards down the field.

No but it is Grigson's fault that Andrew had to run for his life almost on every drop back.  Andrew had his faults this year but most all point to Grigson's poor picks and poor signings on offence.

[HGRekks]

Keep Pagano, fire Grigson, give Jimmy Raye III the GM power and see how that goes.

 

But that's just me.

[jaybird95]

5 hours ago, BrentMc11 said:

Jim I agree with almost all of this.  The next coach had better get a Super Bowl next year.(sarcasm)

 

I really think if we fired Grigson this would be the best.  Bring someone is who is not a pompous a** that can work with Pagano, and not meddle in game time.

 

It is really sad that at least 2 teams are already wanting Pagano.  We are riding him out of the town tarred and feathered.

 

People are tired of me saying saying this, but I will say it again.  "Be careful what you wish for..."

 

 

He really proved his case getting blown out an unfathomable amount of times since he's been here.

[deedub75]

There has to be a reason Chuck was only offered a 1 year extension.  They obviously see that the team has feasted on the the bad AFC South teams, played near .500 against teams outside of the AFC South, and gotten blown out numerous times under Chuck.  That and the numerous slow starts and seeming lack of adjustments can't be overlooked.  The measuring stick for Chuck is the poor play outside of the AFC South.  He wasn't offered a long term deal last season after making it to the AFCCG so what has he done to deserve one now?

[Introspect]

I thought we would finish 10-6 this season. And then make a playoff run.

 

OMG... What the XXXX Happened?