If both teams finish 8-8 who wins?

[JPFolks]

5 minutes ago, bap1331 said:

Because the Texans are going to go into new england and beat the patriots. !!!! And if they go the other route, we're gonna see the worst game ever with Bengals vs texans.

I'm pretty sure the colts deserve it if Luck comes back.

There's zero chance Houston loses to TN so it's all moot. 

[dw49]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not quitting on the season, but the Texans are better than us on strength of victory. My not quitting doesn't change the numbers.

 

You didn't mention that they also beat the Jets and Saints.

 

I went got that site. How do I navigate to where they say Houston has clinched that tie breaker ? 

[Superman]

Just now, dw49 said:

 

I went got that site. How do I navigate to where they say Houston has clinched that tie breaker ? 

 

You have to work the simulation yourself. Select Week 16, choose your winners in the HOU & IND games, then do the same for Week 17. I don't think any other games matter for our division, so you only have to select those two games each week. The site tells you which team wins the division, and it tells you why.

[dw49]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You have to work the simulation yourself. Select Week 16, choose your winners in the HOU & IND games, then do the same for Week 17. I don't think any other games matter for our division, so you only have to select those two games each week. The site tells you which team wins the division, and it tells you why.

 

 

how do you select the winners ? I'm not having luck figuring it out.

 

Don't you need to also enter Cinn , NO and the Jets losing out and the Broncos , Falcons (2 wins) and Dolphins winning week 17 ? 

[Superman]

Just now, dw49 said:

 

 

how do you select the winners ? I'm not having luck figuring it out.

 

Don't you need to also enter Cinn , NO and the Jets losing out and the Broncos , Falcons and Dolphins winning week 17 ? 

 

You just click on the team you think will win each game. So for Colts/Dolphins, you click on the Colts. 

 

I don't think those other games matter for our division.

[deedub75]

55 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

And the Texans do? They're just as bad as the Colts.

 

It's hard to say.  Colts were Superbowl favorites.  Texans weren't really expected to do much. 

[dw49]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You just click on the team you think will win each game. So for Colts/Dolphins, you click on the Colts. 

 

I don't think those other games matter for our division.

 

 

It's strength of victory of the teams you have beaten. So you take the teams that the Colts beat that the Titans didn't. Thats Denver , Atlanta and   Miami (must win game)   . You compare their overall record vs the teams the Texans beat that the Colts didn't . That would be New Orleans , Jets and Cinn. Whatever % is higher gives that team the tie breaker in strength of victory.

 

At least Im pretty sure works that way .

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

It's hard to say.  Colts were Superbowl favorites.  Texans weren't really expected to do much. 

 

That's one way of looking at it. But playoff berths have nothing to do with preseason expectations or style points. They suck, we suck, but it's all about the record and the tie breakers.

[dw49]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You just click on the team you think will win each game. So for Colts/Dolphins, you click on the Colts. 

 

I don't think those other games matter for our division.

I just ran it with us beating winning last two and houston winning one. They do not have tie breaker clinched for reasons I stated 

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

It's strength of victory of the teams you have beaten. So you take the teams that the Colts beat that the Titans didn't. Thats Denver , Atlanta and   Miami (must win game)   . You compare their overall record vs the teams the Texans beat that the Colts didn't . That would be New Orleans , Jets and Cinn. Whatever % is higher gives that team the tie breaker in strength of victory.

 

At least Im pretty sure works that way .

 

Yeah that's how it works. But I don't think the outcome with those teams you mention -- DEN, ATL, NO, NYJ, CIN -- will change the fact that the Texans have greater strength of victory. MIA is immaterial, because Houston beat them, and we have to beat them anyways, as you said.

 

I haven't worked out all the numbers. That's my assumption based on a couple glances at the W/L for both teams. I think they're more than enough games ahead in strength of victory that it won't matter.

 

Edit: I just worked the scenarios. There's a way for the Colts to win the division if both teams finish 8-8. The strength of victory isn't decided yet. I was wrong.

[deedub75]

Yes, but they were talking about who deserves to be in. 

[dw49]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah that's how it works. But I don't think the outcome with those teams you mention -- DEN, ATL, NO, NYJ, CIN -- will change the fact that the Texans have greater strength of victory. MIA is immaterial, because Houston beat them, and we have to beat them anyways, as you said.

 

I haven't worked out all the numbers. That's my assumption based on a couple glances at the W/L for both teams. I think they're more than enough games ahead in strength of victory that it won't matter.

 

 

Miami scored like 44 in the first half . Think they held on to that one. Also it would never come down to strength of victory if one team had 3 and the other 2. So if they had beaten Miami , we wouldntbe talking about this .

 

I ran the program like you said and then clicked on tie breakers and it said Colts win. What I did is what I said , you've Miami , ATL ad Denver wins while you give Jets , Cin and NO losses. They no doubt have an advantage as of now .. especially if Pitt beats Denver.

 

But bottom line is they do not have it clinched . Are they going to win the division ? Yes . Do they have the tie breaker clinched  ? No

[VaAllDay757]

There's still a chance since yates is done for the season and weeden hasn't been there long enough to know the offense much and he's trash but the texans could lose their next two games if we can win our next two games we're back in it

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Miami scored like 44 in the first half . Think they held on to that one. Also it would never come down to strength of victory if one team had 3 and the other 2. So if they had beaten Miami , we wouldntbe talking about this .

 

I ran the program like you said and then clicked on tie breakers and it said Colts win. What I did is what I said , you've Miami , ATL ad Denver wins while you give Jets , Cin and NO losses. They no doubt have an advantage as of now .. especially if Pitt beats Denver.

 

But bottom line is they do not have it clinched . Are they going to win the division ? Yes . Do they have the tie breaker clinched  ? No

 

You're right, I just made an edit. SOV isn't decided yet. 

 

Miami's win over Houston doesn't affect Houston's SOV, though, because that's not a Houston victory.

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

Yes, but they were talking about who deserves to be in. 

 

And my point is that Houston doesn't deserve to be in any more than the Colts do. 

[runthepost]

No chance of making the playoffs as Houston wins next week while we don't know what colts team shows up

[dw49]

Just now, Superman said:

 

You're right, I just made an edit. SOV isn't decided yet. 

 

Miami's win over Houston doesn't affect Houston's SOV, though, because that's not a Houston victory.

 

 

No .. I never said it does. But it effects ours if we beat them .. so you would want them to win in week 17. Assuming we win 2 and Htn. losses 1 , the Miami game counts the same as the Jet game no ? It effects our SOV .. not theirs.

[deedub75]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

And my point is that Houston doesn't deserve to be in any more than the Colts do. 

 

We are in agreement.  That's what I was saying.  

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

No .. I never said it does. But it effects ours if we beat them .. so you would want them to win in week 17. Assuming we win 2 and Htn. losses 1 , the Miami game counts the same as the Jet game no ? It effects our SOV .. not theirs.

 

You're right. I'm dismissive of the MIA game because it's must win, but it still affects our SOV. 

[dw49]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

You're right. I'm dismissive of the MIA game because it's must win, but it still affects our SOV. 

 

 

You're a really smart dude but I think watching this Colt team the last few weeks dulled your senses.

[BOTT]

Not the NFL....

[Superman]

25 minutes ago, dw49 said:

You're a really smart dude but I think watching this Colt team the last few weeks dulled your senses.

 

Yeah, anything that's going wrong right now can be blamed on this awful Colts team. I'll take that. 

[coltsorioles]

Like I said in an earlier post. If Houston loses both and the colts lose to Miami but beat Tenn the colts win the division.  If Houston splits and the colts win BOTH it comes down to strength of victory. Colts want Denver, Atlanta, Miami to win, saints, jets, Bengals to lose. Basically you add up the wins for each team. Now if that ends in a tie I think the colts win the next tiebreaker. 2 huge games are Denver/ Cincinnati. And falcon/ saints.   So Monday we want the lions, next week the patriots, etc.   I don't see Houston winning both..   goto yahoo playoff generator. It's easy to use

[DalTXColtsFan]

As crazy as it seems, the Colts are still not out of it.  Obviously they no longer control their own destiny, but they're not out of it.

 

If Houston has to start Weeden against a Tennessee team that starts Mariota, that's a losable game for them.

 

Ditto Jacksonville - they can score points and play defense.  Brandon Weeden is going to have a tough time beating them.

 

We get a healthy Luck back for the playoffs and it's a whole new season.

[dw49]

35 minutes ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

As crazy as it seems, the Colts are still not out of it.  Obviously they no longer control their own destiny, but they're not out of it.

 

If Houston has to start Weeden against a Tennessee team that starts Mariota, that's a losable game for them.

 

Ditto Jacksonville - they can score points and play defense.  Brandon Weeden is going to have a tough time beating them.

 

We get a healthy Luck back for the playoffs and it's a whole new season.

 

Man.... we're 6-8 . Luck is in street cloths and we have a 40 year old QB so banged up , teams only need to defense around 15 yards of the field. It's over .. no whole new season on the horizon.

[Yehoodi]

If both teams end up 8-8, yes it would come down to Strength of Victory.  As all teams play the same amount of games one only needs to look at wins, well most wins, and not worry about percentage as the total number of wins will give you the same answer.  Also, one can eliminate any games in which the team beat the same team, as those will cancel out.  Lastly, it is fixed at the end of the year, so things could change, unless of course one team has opponents with so many wins the other guys can not catch them by the end of the year.

 

So we just need to add the wins for games in which each team beat a different opponent.

 

If Indy wins out and Houston looses to Tenn, the different opponents will be as follows:

 

Indy: (Den, Atl, Mia, Tenn), present number of wins is 25.  As Indy would have beaten Mia and Tenn, those four teams can only get 6 wins by the end of the season maxing out Indy wins as 31.

 

Hou: (Cin, NYJ, NO, Jax): present number of wins is 30, all those teams could loose their last two games stalling Houston's win total at 30.

 

If my math is correct there are ten games remaining in this scenario that are not presently accounted for (Ten/Jax games are fixed now, the Mia loss to Indy, and Cin/Den play each other).  So out of 10 remaining game results possible, they basically all have to go right with Indy only having a one game cushion, 31 wins to 30.  

 

 

If Indy wins out and Houston looses to Jax, we have.

 

Indy (Den, Atl, Mia), present number of wins 22, and with Mia loosing to Indy those three teams can only get 5 wins bringing Indy's wins to 27 in this scenario.

 

Houston (Cin, NYJ, NO) present number of wins is 25, and would stay at 25 if they all lose. 

 

Here again we have 10 possible games remaining (with Cin/Den playing each other and a Mia a loss to Indy).  Indy would have a two game cushion of 27 to 25.

 

So bottom line all we need to do is figure out which different teams each team won, add their respective wins and the most wins wins the tiebreaker.  As there are more games to play and wins and losses all we can do is get a rough estimate.  Indy does have a shot with an 8-8 tie and above we have the two examples, one with Houston beating Jax and then one with them beating Tenn.  One last point, the reason why ten and jax appear in the first scenario is because Indy would have beaten Tenn one more time and Houston beaten Jax one more time.

 

I hope this helps.  I believe my math is correct.

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

 

That's what I saw when I looked last week . Tied on the first 4 tie breakers . I knew Houston was ahead on the 5th (SOV) but is it clinched with 2 weeks left on the schedule. Do you have a link to them clinching that tie breaker as we speak ? Colts were helped a bit today with NO and Atl wins... but Cinn winning. You're probably right.

 

I guess who cares anyway. This is a very bad Colt football team 

 

Actually, if we are tied head to head and finish with odentical division records (4-2), the Texans win on the third tiebreaker- Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.  They beat the Bucs, Saints, and Jets where we only beat the Bucs (you can leave out the division games if we are both 4-2 in division) in common games.  We both lost to the Bills, Pats, Panthers, and Texans the Dolphins.  So even if we beat the Phins, we are 2-5 and they are 3-4 in those common games.  Texans get in over us if we both end up at 8-8.  Wish it were not so.  This game to was crucial, and we didn't finish the job. Period.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, coltsorioles said:

Like I said in an earlier post. If Houston loses both and the colts lose to Miami but beat Tenn the colts win the division.  If Houston splits and the colts win BOTH it comes down to strength of victory. Colts want Denver, Atlanta, Miami to win, saints, jets, Bengals to lose. Basically you add up the wins for each team. Now if that ends in a tie I think the colts win the next tiebreaker. 2 huge games are Denver/ Cincinnati. And falcon/ saints.   So Monday we want the lions, next week the patriots, etc.   I don't see Houston winning both..   goto yahoo playoff generator. It's easy to use

 

Good call on the first part!  If we both end up 7 - 9 that way, we win based upon a 4-2 Division record vs. the Texans 3 - 3!   (Tiebreaker #2)

 

But the second part, if Houston splits,   Then Record, Head to head, and division record are the same.  It comes down to tiebreaker #3

 

Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.

 

Assuming we are both 4-2 in division, that cancels.  We only had 7 other common opponents.  Colts are 1-5 with one game left (Miami).  Texans are already 3-4 and played all.  We beat Miami, we are still short at 2 - 5.  Texans win in tiebreaker.

 

2 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

If both teams end up 8-8, yes it would come down to Strength of Victory.  As all teams play the same amount of games one only needs to look at wins, well most wins, and not worry about percentage as the total number of wins will give you the same answer.  Also, one can eliminate any games in which the team beat the same team, as those will cancel out.  Lastly, it is fixed at the end of the year, so things could change, unless of course one team has opponents with so many wins the other guys can not catch them by the end of the year.

 

So we just need to add the wins for games in which each team beat a different opponent.

 

If Indy wins out and Houston looses to Tenn, the different opponents will be as follows:

 

Indy: (Den, Atl, Mia, Tenn), present number of wins is 25.  As Indy would have beaten Mia and Tenn, those four teams can only get 6 wins by the end of the season maxing out Indy wins as 31.

 

Hou: (Cin, NYJ, NO, Jax): present number of wins is 30, all those teams could loose their last two games stalling Houston's win total at 30.

 

If my math is correct there are ten games remaining in this scenario that are not presently accounted for (Ten/Jax games are fixed now, the Mia loss to Indy, and Cin/Den play each other).  So out of 10 remaining game results possible, they basically all have to go right with Indy only having a one game cushion, 31 wins to 30.  

 

 

If Indy wins out and Houston looses to Jax, we have.

 

Indy (Den, Atl, Mia), present number of wins 22, and with Mia loosing to Indy those three teams can only get 5 wins bringing Indy's wins to 27 in this scenario.

 

Houston (Cin, NYJ, NO) present number of wins is 25, and would stay at 25 if they all lose. 

 

Here again we have 10 possible games remaining (with Cin/Den playing each other and a Mia a loss to Indy).  Indy would have a two game cushion of 27 to 25.

 

So bottom line all we need to do is figure out which different teams each team won, add their respective wins and the most wins wins the tiebreaker.  As there are more games to play and wins and losses all we can do is get a rough estimate.  Indy does have a shot with an 8-8 tie and above we have the two examples, one with Houston beating Jax and then one with them beating Tenn.  One last point, the reason why ten and jax appear in the first scenario is because Indy would have beaten Tenn one more time and Houston beaten Jax one more time.

 

I hope this helps.  I believe my math is correct.

 

 

 

But tiebreaker number 3 is record in common games, as below.  Texans beat 2 opponents Colts lost to- Saints and Jets.  We both beat Bucs and lost to the rest (not division which is immaterial when both are 4-2 which mean we beat Titans)  We only play Miami and thus can make up only one of those.  Texans get in.

***********************************************************************

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION

If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

[Yehoodi]

15 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Actually, if we are tied head to head and finish with odentical division records (4-2), the Texans win on the third tiebreaker- Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.  They beat the Bucs, Saints, and Jets where we only beat the Bucs (you can leave out the division games if we are both 4-2 in division) in common games.  We both lost to the Bills, Pats, Panthers, and Texans the Dolphins.  So even if we beat the Phins, we are 2-5 and they are 3-4 in those common games.  Texans get in over us if we both end up at 8-8.  Wish it were not so.  This game to was crucial, and we didn't finish the job. Period.

You guys beat atl and the fins and hou beat the jets and saints, so each beat two teams that the other did not, so that would be a push.  If my math is correct.

 

[Yehoodi]

5 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Good call on the first part!  If we both end up 7 - 9 that way, we win based upon a 4-2 Division record vs. the Texans 3 - 3!   (Tiebreaker #2)

 

But the second part, if Houston splits,   Then Record, Head to head, and division record are the same.  It comes down to tiebreaker #3

 

Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.

 

Assuming we are both 4-2 in division, that cancels.  We only had 7 other common opponents.  Colts are 1-5 with one game left (Miami).  Texans are already 3-4 and played all.  We beat Miami, we are still short at 2 - 5.  Texans win in tiebreaker.

 

 

But tiebreaker number 3 is record in common games, as below.  Texans beat 2 opponents Colts lost to- Saints and Jets.  We both beat Bucs and lost to the rest (not division which is immaterial when both are 4-2 which mean we beat Titans)  We only play Miami and thus can make up only one of those.  Texans get in.

***********************************************************************

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION

If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

Thanks for the list.  If my math is correct, outside of the head to head, there are 14 games, 12 of which are common with Indy (den/Pitt), Houston (kc/cinn), being the two respective non common games.  Aren't you both 6-6 in the 12 common games. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

You guys beat atl and the fins and hou beat the jets and saints, so each beat two teams that the other did not, so that would be a push.  If my math is correct.

 

 

That's right!  Missed the Falcons!  Nice catch there, upset my applecart.

 

 

So does that mean #4 is the same too?

 

Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

 

If Texans split, the both are 6-6 in conference.  Strength of victory it becomes. I stand corrected.

[achcolts]

I dont see weeden winning either games to be honest

[chrisfarley]

4 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Colts are done.  People need to give up the ghost already. Just not our year. 

No doubt.  The fork is not just on the table, it is positioned in the hand, pointed down at the Colts, and is traveling at light speed toward its destination.

[runthepost]

Brian Boyer will be back not Weeden and besides we will lose to Miami

[Yehoodi]

37 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

That's right!  Missed the Falcons!  Nice catch there, upset my applecart.

 

 

So does that mean #4 is the same too?

 

Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

 

If Texans split, the both are 6-6 in conference.  Strength of victory it becomes. I stand corrected.

Yah, you had me going for a bit, I thought I had my math wrong. :-)

 

Best odds for colts, imo, is for the Texans loose two and the colts win out.  Which is a possibility. Good luck. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

33 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

Yah, you had me going for a bit, I thought I had my math wrong. :-)

 

Best odds for colts, imo, is for the Texans loose two and the colts win out.  Which is a possibility. Good luck. 

 

I'll even settle for Texans losing out and we just beat the Titans.  We're still in, even if we lose to the Dolphins!  Luck might be ready soon too!  As long as there is a chance, I'll hold on to that possibility.