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Peyton has handled things well


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30 minutes ago, Shane Bond said:

LOL

 

We saw what Brady can do without Gronk on the field.

 

I really feel bad for all the Patriots players who actually contributed ( without whining ) on the field like Malcolm Butler, Ty Law, McGinnest, Teddy and all the coaches like Wies, Crennel and Belichick who contributed for the win.

 

 

 

The majority of Brady's post-season wins have come without Gronk on the field ...

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11 hours ago, Jules said:

 

This. The defensive minded attitude and almost anger against those who have doubts on Manning are almost laughable.

 

And you can't even tell me that anyone who has real critical thinking skills isn't doubtful on Peyton in January vs. better teams. 

 

If Brock loses to the Steelers this weekend everyone will want to hang the kid here and say Peyton could have won even though they have no proof on that either. If he wins they will ignore it and say his stats were not good enough and it's still Peyton's chance to shine since he is a proven HOF guy with a rich past. Note key word......PAST.

 

I am trying to give Brock a shot here too. This guys potential actually legit scares me for the future in the AFC.

 

There is no anger. People cannot see the middle ground, on both sides. It has to be either "Peyton sucks" or "Peyton is GOAT", the truth as we always know is in the middle.

 

Right now, the 2015 Peyton does not give them the best chance and I will say it again, the Broncos are better off riding Brock. However, he has to win one of the Steelers or Bengals game for them to keep their division. Brock is in a tough position. While he is suited for Kubiak's system, he can tend to hold on to the ball a bit longer due to it being his first year. He is definitely not on the same rookie level as a Russell Wilson or Big Ben or a Brady backing up Bledsoe. However, with an entire offseason with Kubiak, no doubt he will be better.

 

Elway should have either parted with Peyton in the offseason instead of just working out a $4 million cut or Kubiak should have played the Peyton offense and see how far it got him with more runs thrown in. It was a marriage that was not going to work eventually and we have seen the bad results enough this year, IMO, with the Broncos not hitting 30 points even once this year. Not to mention their disastrous OL. 

 

As far as January goes, it is still Brock's job to lose and the Broncos have to treat it as such, IMO. Wins are the only thing that count since that is what Peyton fans said during their 6-0 stretch, I am going based on the same premise. Brock's stats, unless he is gifting the opponent TDs and points, shouldn't matter as long as the team is winning and he is making the plays that matter. Big Ben, during his SB run, rode his D and made the plays he had to but did not have even average stats. His rookie year, the year prior to his SB run, his stats were actually better.

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6 hours ago, amfootball said:

???? Even if you take out his first 9 wins, he is 12-8 in the post-season with one ring and 3 SB appearances and 5 AFCCG appearances, 2 one and done's.  Manning is 11-13 overall in his entire career with one ring and 3 SB appearances, 4 AFCCG appearances and 9 one and done's. So Brady's post-season career after his 3 rings is still better than Manning.

Never said it wasn't better (Pats fans are so sensitive when it comes to Tom LOL) but 12-8 isn't dominating and winning 1 Ring in 10 years isn't either. I was just pointing out that Brady is far from perfect and has had his Postseason problems like everyone else.

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On 12/15/2015 at 6:56 PM, oldunclemark said:

Looks like Brock Osweiler will start for the Broncos against Pittsburgh in Week 15 . No comment from Osweiler or Peyton Manning yet but more than once Denver web site says its Brock.  Some has suggested that Manning's injury had a one month rehab time which means he'd return vs. Cincinnati Dec. 28. We'll see.

I like the way you don't hear from Peyton. No daily or weekly updates on his injury. No comments on how Brock is playing.

Surely he hears many calling for him to give up and quit.  But he says nothing at all because nothing cant be easily misconstrued or twisted.

Any comments he makes puts added pressure on Kubiak and any updates he gives puts pressure on Brock, who he's spoken very highly of in the past..

As much as it must hurt not to be able to play, especially after a loss, and to hear in the media how the team is better off without him, Peyton is doing the right thing for all concerned by saying nothing.

 

When he comes back, his play will be his say.

 

 

 

 

 He is quietly cashing those sweet checks.
 I would like to see him further solidify his Playoff record. :P

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37 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Never said it wasn't better (Pats fans are so sensitive when it comes to Tom LOL) but 12-8 isn't dominating and winning 1 Ring in 10 years isn't either. I was just pointing out that Brady is far from perfect and has had his Postseason problems like everyone else.

Brady's 12-8 mark would place him 5th all time for most post-season wins. It is not dominating when compared to Brady's first half of his career at 9-0 which is the judging stick you are using. And no one is saying Brady is perfect but he is the biggest post-season winner in NFL history and is still going ...

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Just now, amfootball said:

Brady's 12-8 mark would place him 5th all time for most post-season wins. It is not dominating when compared to Brady's first half of his career at 9-0 which is the judging stick you are using. And no one is saying Brady is perfect but he is the biggest post-season winner in NFL history and is still going ...

Like I said I have never once said Peyton is better in the Postseason over Tom. Peyton's 11-13 mark is shaky but he still has been to 3 SB's and is even 2-1 against Tom in the Title Game. All I was really doing with my initial Post was pointing out even Tom has had his struggles in the Postseason after his early run.

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8 minutes ago, amfootball said:

Brady's 12-8 mark would place him 5th all time for most post-season wins. It is not dominating when compared to Brady's first half of his career at 9-0 which is the judging stick you are using. And no one is saying Brady is perfect but he is the biggest post-season winner in NFL history and is still going ...

 

To me, it is a bit unfair as well taking out that 9-0 anyways.

 

He did win the 2004 AFCCG 41-27 vs the Steelers and the 2003 season SB 32-29 vs the Panthers. So, it is not like he was not putting up points in playoff games at the end of that 9-0 stretch and relying only on his D.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Like I said I have never once said Peyton is better in the Postseason over Tom. Peyton's 11-13 mark is shaky but he still has been to 3 SB's and is even 2-1 against Tom in the Title Game. All I was really doing with my initial Post was pointing out even Tom has had his struggles in the Postseason after his early run.

Sure. I think after going 9-0 anything less than perfection would be looked at as a struggle yet he went to 3 more SBs and 6 more AFCCGs after his first three titles and came within a miracle catch of going a perfect 19-0.

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7 minutes ago, amfootball said:

Sure. I think after going 9-0 anything less than perfection would be looked at as a struggle yet he went to 3 more SBs and 6 more AFCCGs after his first three titles and came within a miracle catch of going a perfect 19-0.

You even have to admit Tom played mediocre in that SB against the Giants. Talking about the first one. Putting up 14 points when you average 30 a game is pretty bad. I realize he took them down at the end with a sweet drive to go ahead but they should've blown the Giants out IMO. Not trying to nitpick but he has had several Playoff games like that over the last 10 seasons or so and that was my main point. When I say several before you ask, Jets, Ravens games, etc.. Peyton is shaky in the Playoffs overall so I already admit that but it's funny how Peyton haters just want to point to his record but they don't bring up he is 2-1 vs Tom in the Big one and has been to 3 SB's and won at least 1.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You even have to admit Tom played mediocre in that SB against the Giants. Talking about the first one. Putting up 14 points when you average 30 a game is pretty bad. I realize he took them down at the end with a sweet drive to go ahead but they should've blown the Giants out IMO. Not trying to nitpick but he has had several Playoff games like that over the last 10 seasons or so and that was my main point. When I say several before you ask, Jets, Ravens games, etc.. Peyton is shaky in the Playoffs overall so I already admit that but it's funny how Peyton haters just want to point his record but they don't bring up he is 2-1 vs Tom in the Big one and has been to 3 SB's and won at least 1.

I don't want to derail this thread so feel free to PM and we can discuss ...

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1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Rather than have this discussion with her,    just ram your head repeatedly against the hardest surface you can find.   You will gain more ground that way.   

Yeah really haha Even when I bring up facts it still doesn't matter like Tom playing mediocre against the Giants in 2007 and Peyton being 2-1 in the Title Game vs Tom.

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It is nice that the QB position situation in Denver has not gotten out of hand.  It must be tough for Peyton to sit on the sidelines and watch his team play and he can not contribute.  Glad to see that he is going along and there are no waves being made in Denver.

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16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That game was actually in 2002. It was real snowy and Peyton played great in Denver. I just looked it up. 23-20 Colts won. Peyton does have 13 Playoff losses but has been to 3 SB's and won 1 + he and the great Tom Brady's QBR in the Playoffs is close. Tom has such a fabulous record because in his first 3 Playoffs he was 9-0 otherwise he has been mortal for the most part and has had his share of puzzling Playoff losses as well like to the Jets and Ravens at home. I just wouldn't trust Brock against the Patriots on the road in a Playoff game, sorry. If I am losing I am losing with a Top 5 QB of all-time and that is Peyton. 

 

I just wanted to jump into this conversation to make a quick point for your future reference.  I understand where you are coming from regarding Brady's playoff performance outside of his SB winning years, and agree that he has not won SBs in those other years and has had some games that have been subpar, so agreed.   No argument.

 

I do find however that sometimes folks will unintentionally (some knowingly (i.e. the cherry pickers) but not you here) lump other players overall career (which includes SBs wins) against Brady's non SB years and try to make a comparison.  When we take a look at some notable QBs and their playoff records outside of their SB winning season we have the following:

 

9-8 Brady

10-11 Favre

3-5 Brees

3-5 Big Ben

7-14 Peyton

4-7 Montana

2-4 Rodgers

0-3 Eli

 

One notices that only Brady is above 0.500 in his non SB years.   Also, he has won more games than 4 of the QBs listed actually played, and just two short of Montana's 11 games.  Surely a career record is helped by 3-0 or 4-0 records from SB years; as such, it is nice to look at things apples to apples if you will.

 

As for the 2009 and 2010 one and done, I was not too worried about 2009 as that was likely our worst playoff team that we fielded, followed closely by our 2013 team.  The 2010 team lost to a divisional rival Jets that had also beaten us earlier in the year, yah we were 14-2 but sometimes you loose to a division rival.

 

As for SB42, one must remember a hidden point in that game is that the Pats only had 8 meaningful possessions in that game and scored on two and got the team in FG range on a 3rd, so the offense was in scoring position on 3/8 possession, almost 50%.  Had each team has a few more possessions that one would find in a typical game, the game might of ended 24-21 Giants or something close to that score. 

 

Yes Brady has had is share of subpar playoff games but at the same time has had more than his share of wins during the same time period.  As he has had more of the latter, I am not so sure one can say he has struggled as much as other QBs.     

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12 minutes ago, Shane Bond said:

 

When you talk facts, the conversation need to be taken to PM :)

Yeah no need to go to PM. I think she knows anything she throws at me wont phase me because I have already admitted Peyton has a mediocre record in the Playoffs and is shaky in the Playoffs  and I am 100% right about Tom playing mediocre against the Giants in 2007 and Peyton being 2-1 against Tom in the AFC Title Game. Also I am right that after his 9-0 start in the Playoffs he has not been near as dominant in the Playoffs since then, all are facts. She responded to my Post last night so I merely responded back with more facts. Really all Patriots fans have as ammo against Peyton is he is 11-13 in the Playoffs but they never mention how he has managed to go to 3 SB's and win 1 though and his 2-1 record against Tom when it really counts. Also it's really a team game as well so a QB's record doesn't always tell the story. Peyton doesn't and cant play Defense last I checked. The Patriots had awesome Defenses in Tom's early days.

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7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah no need to go to PM. I think she knows anything she throws at me wont phase me because I have already admitted Peyton has a mediocre record in the Playoffs and is shaky in the Playoffs  and I am 100% right about Tom playing mediocre against the Giants in 2007 and Peyton being 2-1 against Tom in the AFC Title Game. Also I am right that after his 9-0 start in the Playoffs he has not been near as dominant in the Playoffs since then, all are facts. She responded to my Post last night so I merely responded back with more facts. Really all Patriots fans have as ammo against Peyton is he is 11-13 in the Playoffs but they never mention how he has managed to go to 3 SB's and win 1 though and his 2-1 record against Tom when it really counts. Also it's really a team game as well so a QB's record doesn't always tell the story. Peyton doesn't and cant play Defense last I checked. The Patriots had awesome Defenses in Tom's early days.

The thread is not about Brady, but Manning and how he has handled being on the sideline this year. Like I said, feel free to PM and we can discuss. I have been told by moderation that threads cannot be derailed so I am being respectful to the rules, not avoiding the discussion. Would love to discuss just not on this thread.

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49 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

It is nice that the QB position situation in Denver has not gotten out of hand.  It must be tough for Peyton to sit on the sidelines and watch his team play and he can not contribute.  Glad to see that he is going along and there are no waves being made in Denver.

 

Just the still shot of this grainy footage sure makes Peyton look older than he is:

 

http://photos.denverpost.com/2015/12/16/video-denver-broncos-peyton-manning-returns-to-broncos-practice/

 

Brock, in this video, is saying all the right things and it has to be weird for Peyton to take scout team reps like Brock mentions. But contrary to what is being rumored, speculated and said out there, Peyton is a team player, and his actions of being a scout team QB speaks louder than words, IMO.

 

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4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Just the still shot of this grainy footage sure makes Peyton look older than he is:

 

http://photos.denverpost.com/2015/12/16/video-denver-broncos-peyton-manning-returns-to-broncos-practice/

 

Brock, in this video, is saying all the right things and it has to be weird for Peyton to play scout team QB like Brock mentions. But contrary to what is being rumored, speculated and said out there, Peyton is a team player, and his actions of being a scout team QB speaks louder than words, IMO.

lol. That still is brutal.

 

Kubiak is still dancing a tight rope. Will be interesting to see what happens next week when Manning should be able to practice more ...

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4 minutes ago, amfootball said:

lol. That still is brutal.

 

Kubiak is still dancing a tight rope. Will be interesting to see what happens next week when Manning should be able to practice more ...

 

My gut tells me Brock will at least get the Bengals game at home to prove more against a quality opponent at the very least. It will be interesting.

 

What is the fun in any team's activities if there is no QB controversy? The media needs some fodder after all :thmup:, they will bludgeon this issue till the Broncos season ends. I feel for Kubiak and Brock in a sense. 

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Just now, chad72 said:

 

My gut tells me Brock will at least get the Bengals game at home to prove more against a quality opponent at the very least. It will be interesting.

 

What is the fun in any team's activities if there is no QB controversy? The poor media needs some fodder after all :thmup:, they will bludgeon this issue till the Broncos season ends. I feel for Kubiak and Brock in a sense. 

The longer Kubiak goes without naming a starter the worse it is going to get. It is also important for the team to know who their QB is going into the post-season. But I agree, I think he wants to see Brock vs quality teams. He has the win vs the Pats where he had a great 4th quarter to lead the comeback. So have to see what he can do now vs Pitt and then Cincy.

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If you pay attention to the Broncos you would know that Peyton has been nothing but classy to Brock and the organization during the whole situation. He has let Kubiak handle it and Kubiak has done that quite well. Broncos insiders also seem quite certain that Brock will play out the season unless he is injured or has a really bad game. Oakland doesn't come close to qualifying as a bad game for him. There was also photos of Brock and Peyton laughing together during warm ups. Two classy professionals right there.

My guess is that Peyton is back at practice (looking spry in a few clips that have leaked out) and is simply waiting to see if Brock does get hurt or play poorly and is probably sending out a message that he is healthy for his future team next year. Call me crazy but it would not surprise me one bit to see him suit up for Houston or St Louis next year running his own system. Teams with indoor stadiums and decent defenses. 

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Chad72, thanks for posting that video.  Yah it must be tough for Peyton to have to work back through his injuries and work with the scout team.  But you got to start somewhere. I can imagine as he gets closer to getting back to the field he must be getting anxious as its getting near the end of the year.

 

And agreed, we can not listen to the noise and what the media tries to drum up.  Peyton is handling the situation with class.

 

As a side note tried to reply to your post and got my last post again.  Was able to delete it and made a fresh post.

 

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4 minutes ago, 19colt said:

If you pay attention to the Broncos you would know that Peyton has been nothing but classy to Brock and the organization during the whole situation. He has let Kubiak handle it and Kubiak has done that quite well. Broncos insiders also seem quite certain that Brock will play out the season unless he is injured or has a really bad game. Oakland doesn't come close to qualifying as a bad game for him. There was also photos of Brock and Peyton laughing together during warm ups. Two classy professionals right there.

My guess is that Peyton is back at practice (looking spry in a few clips that have leaked out) and is simply waiting to see if Brock does get hurt or play poorly and is probably sending out a message that he is healthy for his future team next year. Call me crazy but it would not surprise me one bit to see him suit up for Houston or St Louis next year running his own system. Teams with indoor stadiums and decent defenses. 

 

If the Rams do move to LA to become the LA Rams, and you have to sell tickets to a new fan base, guess who Jeff Fisher will go after? He wore Peyton's #18 for crying out loud, when he was the Titans head coach, at a charity event. :)

 

Jeff Fisher is the kind of coach that is run heavy that would let Peyton run his system but rein in the pass-run ratio, IMO. Only time will tell. 

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I have a feeling Peyton will retire after this season. He probably should with the recent injuries he has had and his arm strength has got much worse over the last 2 seasons. I still think if he gets healthy this season let the guy go for it one last time. His IQ and experience could get the Broncos a SB win in the end as long as that Defense plays like they have all season.

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Brock is the Broncos future regardless AND HE IS GOOD IMO so I say let Peyton have 1 last crack at it if he's healthy because Peyton has the experience in big games. When was the last time a QB who has had 3 starts win a SB, answer is = never. Brock IMO is the future but no way he leads the Broncos to a SB win. My prediction of the Broncos winning it all hinges on Peyton coming back.

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21 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

Like I said way earlier in this thread...wait til am gets a hold of this. And this time I don't blame her. You asked for it!

@Bloody I already seen your initial Post so why delete it? I love chatting with AM and have no problem with her takes. She is very knowledgeable. It is what it is. Sometimes you agree with people and sometimes you don't.

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19 hours ago, Jules said:

 

In what universe has Peyton often been the guy who has been known for automatic playoff wins? I am honestly curious why more don't want to see what Brock can do in the playoffs when it's all on the line......

Do we want Denver to win here or do we want to just see Peyton?

No one guarantees automatic wins in any universe..as I know you know.

What is the theory that Brock Osweiler can QB his team to 3 consecutive playoff wins when he's never QB'd his team to 3 consecutive regular season wins.  Does that make sense?

The goal is not to 'see what Brock can do in the playoffs'    That's just curiosity.

 

No franchise that has brought in 10 vets to win now will go into into the post-season with someone who has never played in the post-season if you have an option. If you start Brock, who has struggled now for 2 games, you're not giving your side the best chance to win and your vets on the roster know it.

 

You must go with someone who has won playoff games before. That's hard to argue, isnt it?

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3 hours ago, Yehoodi said:

It is nice that the QB position situation in Denver has not gotten out of hand.  It must be tough for Peyton to sit on the sidelines and watch his team play and he can not contribute.  Glad to see that he is going along and there are no waves being made in Denver.

That was basically my point. 'Y'

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On 12/17/2015 at 7:20 PM, Jules said:

 

Holy crap do you guys get touchy at times with this Peyton stuff. 

 

  We get it your tired of it.  But there's little to no reason to bash all Colts fans for sticking up for the greatest QB to ever lace up for the Colts.  

 

There was a post about Manning that was literally and blatantly false and you jumped all over everyone saying THEY were being touchy on the subject.  The irony.

 

Then you go on your Block Osweiler love fest for 2 pages and how you are scared of him being the future, which (imo) is just an attempt to degrade the conversation in the first place since you know it was about Manning originally.  

 

BTW don't hold your breath on Brock.  He isn't going to be anything special.  He has horrible arm motions, has almost 0 pocket presence and for being as tall as he is his crap mechanics makes him throw like he's Drew Brees. But hey don't let your disdain for Manning cloud your judgement too much.

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2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Just the still shot of this grainy footage sure makes Peyton look older than he is:

 

http://photos.denverpost.com/2015/12/16/video-denver-broncos-peyton-manning-returns-to-broncos-practice/

 

Brock, in this video, is saying all the right things and it has to be weird for Peyton to take scout team reps like Brock mentions. But contrary to what is being rumored, speculated and said out there, Peyton is a team player, and his actions of being a scout team QB speaks louder than words, IMO.

 

and Kubiak has said that when Peyton is 100% healthy, he's coming back.

If he's practicing, his foot is OK...which means he's on track to come back Dec. 28 against Cincinnati...which is a pivotal game to eabn a bye and clinch the AFC West

 

You have to find out if Manning can play in the playoffs and the only way to do that is to play him

 

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15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I was just messing with you, most of you guys know my sense of humor by now so I am sure you knew I was just having fun with that Post.

 

 

See that time out came "that mistakes" lol! Atleast it's not in somebody else's quote bubble this time.

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1 minute ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

 

See that time out came "that mistakes" lol! Atleast it's not in somebody else's quote bubble this time.

I don't Post from my phone because I have read where a lot of people have had problems doing so. I just use my laptop. I still have had problems when it comes to quotes so that isn't even full proof. I like the old format better.

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25 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

You are almost as annoying as another certain poster when it comes to Brady and Manning.  We get it your tired of it.  But there's little to no reason to bash all Colts fans for sticking up for the greatest QB to ever lace up for the Colts.  

 

There was a post about Manning that was literally and blatantly false and you jumped all over everyone saying THEY were being touchy on the subject.  The irony.

 

Then you go on your Block Osweiler love fest for 2 pages and how you are scared of him being the future, which (imo) is just an attempt to degrade the conversation in the first place since you know it was about Manning originally.  

 

BTW don't hold your breath on Brock.  He isn't going to be anything special.  He has horrible arm motions, has almost 0 pocket presence and for being as tall as he is his crap mechanics makes him throw like he's Drew Brees. But hey don't let your disdain for Manning cloud your judgement too much.

 

If Jules is annoying over Manning, you haven't meet several Pats fans yet lol! Atleast you straight up admitted that this was about shamelessly sticking up for Manning because he was such a dang good Colt. Other people are trying to justify it without admitting it. That's what brings people like me and Jules to say some of things we've said.

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4 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

If Jules is annoying over Manning, you haven't meet several Pats fans yet lol! Atleast you straight up admitted that this was about shamelessly sticking up for Manning because he was such a dang good Colt. Other people are trying to justify it without admitting it. That's what brings people like me and Jules to say some of things we've said.

I agree with Jules 99% of the time and she is cool but she is wrong on this one. Have to roll with #18 if he's healthy, JMO. If he plays and goes one and done again feel free to be critical of my takes but I think with Denver's Defense and if 18 is healthy it's doomsday for every team out there. We will see? We beat them last year but Peyton wasn't right, I will take it because that put us in the Final 4 but everyone knows Peyton wasn't right. I think this rest right now will allow him to get right. If Brock plays Denver has no chance at winning the SB.

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People have a right to disagree with Jules on an opinion she may have about Manning just like they can disagree with me if they want. Is Peyton Manning a great NFL QB? Yes, absolutely. His SB ring, 2 other appearances, multiple MVP Awards, countless division titles, & more 4,000 yard throwing seasons than I can count proves & validates that undeniable fact. 

 

But Jules is 100% right about 1 thing regarding Peyton: His biggest knock against him is that when he does lose in the Playoffs the NFL media loves to focus on his records collectively rather than his shortcomings on the field individually in the post season that no other elite QB in this league gets a pass on. Translation: Why can't Peyton's playoff losses be dissected on a game by game basis as opposed to treating the man like a lifetime achievement award? 

 

Granted evaluating a QBs greatness doesn't simply stop at Lombardi trophies. I get that & Peyton anticipates throws better than any field general I have ever seen in my lifetime, but that's the point, why did I feel the need to constructively criticize 18 SB stumbling blocks & then send him a nice complement to cushion the blow? Translation: Peyton Manning is so beloved by the masses that if anybody dares point out a minor flaw they go from a fan to a pariah in under 15 seconds. It's not popular to say that, but it's the truth & I respect Jules for have the courage to say something truthful & unpopular in INDY & Denver at the same time. JMO. 

 

Yes, you are free to disagree with me too. That's fine by me. No need to dip this wanna be record producer & film critic in a chocolate cat mold either, but you can try a Chewbacca Star Wars mold made out of Reeses Peanut Butter Cups if you want. haha

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