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Whom is to blame for this train wreck Defense?


Pacergeek

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OP,

 

If Pep was the DC, I know who everyone would blame...................

 

Blame Pep for the offense not playing well but Grigs for the defense falling apart?  I don't get fans sometimes.  I understand people like certain guys more than others but let's be honest, Grigs and Pagano are the reason for this season.  This team is lacking personnel and youth at key positions and this team NEVER plays a full 60 minutes of solid/disciplined football.  Doesn't matter the outcome, this team always has a very sloppy quarter or half.

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I think the run defense has drastically gone down the drain after the loss of Henry Anderson.  The run defense was the biggest issue in the Jags game.  It was terrible and the biggest factor in the Jags extending drives.  Combine that with the offense going 3 and out all the time, special teams touchdown, strip sack fumble and other offensive blunders and you get what we got.  I didn't see anything special about the Jags offense period.  I think if you give a team enough opportunities they will eventually beat you and that's exactly what we did.

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8 hours ago, bavanlan said:

Got Vontae Davis for a 2nd round pick.

Signed Pro Bowler Mike Adams off the discard pile.

Drafted Henry Anderson and David Parry in mid rounds of the draft.

Got Darius Butler for a song at NB.

Brought in Langford and Lowery at a salary below their current levels of performance.

But sure, let's blame Grigson because Toler is overpaid and Cole hasn't worked out; batting 1.000 is the standard around here.

 

 Zibikowski, Satelle, MvGlynn, Seth Olson, Vaughn,
Cherilous, Laron Landry, RJ Francois, Hakeem Nicks, DH Bay, 

TRENT RICHARDSON, Bjeorn Werner, Greg Toler, Donald Thomas, Josh Cribbs
Trent Cole, Andre Johnson, Todd Heremans, Chapman, M Hughes, K Holmes
 

 Bolded are some of our GM`s $$$ FA `s or #1 draft picks and other misses we have had (to watch)
 or are now dealing with.

The batting a1.000 comment is quite comical And perhaps out of touch. JMO of course.
 Go Colts!
 

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20 minutes ago, tikyle said:

OP,

 

If Pep was the DC, I know who everyone would blame...................

 

Blame Pep for the offense not playing well but Grigs for the defense falling apart?  I don't get fans sometimes.  I understand people like certain guys more than others but let's be honest, Grigs and Pagano are the reason for this season.  This team is lacking personnel and youth at key positions and this team NEVER plays a full 60 minutes of solid/disciplined football.  Doesn't matter the outcome, this team always has a very sloppy quarter or half.

If you would stop the Pep apology tour and just stick to the topic at hand people might see that you have some valid points..but man get off the Pep thing...he wasn't doing a good job. Sure he was a scapegoat to try to salvage a bad season to turn things around but realize everyone is going to be out at the end of the season...he was not going to be our OC next year anyways so why does it matter?

 

As per the topic...the offensive woos have put this defense behind the 8 ball all year long. Not sustaining drives...bad field position...turnovers...and just demoralizing them has hurt us a lot. Combine that with the fall off in play from Toler and some of our secondary and some injuries to this DL and them wearing down as the season has gone along has hurt. I do put some blame on Grigson for two things for this team. He hasn't put enough emphasis on the OL and he hasn't found us a pass rush...granted those may be the two most difficult things in football to build but he was given a franchise qb from the start...he just hasn't got the right personnel here to fix the other two. We need some disruptive forces on that defense if we want to get back to the defense we saw the last couple years.

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4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Zibikowski, Satelle, MvGlynn, Seth Olson, Vaughn,
Cherilous, Laron Landry, RJ Francois, Hakeem Nicks, DH Bay, 

TRENT RICHARDSON, Bjeorn Werner, Greg Toler, Donald Thomas, Josh Cribbs
Trent Cole, Andre Johnson, Todd Heremans, Chapman, M Hughes, K Holmes
 

 Bolded are some of our GM`s $$$ FA `s or #1 draft picks and other misses we have had (to watch)
 or are now dealing with.

The batting a1.000 comment is quite comical And perhaps out of touch. JMO of course.
 Go Colts!
 

Olsen was here before Grigson

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Which game did we lose Henry Anderson? The Broncos game?

 

2013 Broncos game - we lose Reggie Wayne

 

2015 Broncos game - we lose Henry Anderson and Andrew Luck (for several weeks now)

 

Man, the Broncos game really takes a lot out of us.

 

I do think Manusky has to be let go if we let the Texans score anywhere close to 30 points. So should the OL coach. 

 

I am fine with retaining Pagano and having an entire offseason of Chud and his playbook with Luck healthy. But we need new blood on the DC side and the OL side. If Pagano wants to go down with Manusky, it would be his fault.

 

 

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Well, lets make this simple. The team is essentially being out coached every week. Unprepared offensively and defensively. Unable to adjust at half time. Special teams giving up distressingly big chunks of yardage and a couple of TD's recently. 

 

That screams Pagano and Manusky. The team needs to go in a new direction with a coach who has experience as a winner and who will bring top caliber assistants with him. 

 

Ryan Grigson is on the chopping block too, but maybe not immediately. His draft this year was solid; Langford and Gore were very good FA pickups as well; Lowrey just ok; Johnson, Herreman and Cole are done in this league, and were bad choices. 

 

To sum up: Pagano is a good guy who is in over his head. He and his under-performing tribe of coaches must go. 

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Let's see, the defense has played well early and given our offense the ball with early turnovers and the chance to go up big in the first or second quarter two games in a row. However, the offense has said, no thanks,  we prefer to kick a fg or just give it right back. So then the D says, HA! gonna need to  score 50 then gentleman. Plus remember this is still Peps offense, just a different guy ruining it. This is a collective effort to suck as of late, not one particular side. Tough to watch. 

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10 hours ago, bavanlan said:

Got Vontae Davis for a 2nd round pick.

Signed Pro Bowler Mike Adams off the discard pile.

Drafted Henry Anderson and David Parry in mid rounds of the draft.

Got Darius Butler for a song at NB.

Brought in Langford and Lowery at a salary below their current levels of performance.

But sure, let's blame Grigson because Toler is overpaid and Cole hasn't worked out; batting 1.000 is the standard around here.

Toler

Cole

Andre

Frank Gore has been iffy, but I think a lot of that falls on the OL/OC

OL isn't that great even though he's been here a few years and has had enough time to get talent (especially for a former OL)

Defense is inconsistent.

Trent Richardson

LaRon Landry

Gosder Cherilus

Ricky Jean-Francois

Werner

Still not a fan of the Dorsett pick

 

Grigson has made some good moves, but let's not act like he doesn't deserve any blame here.

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30 minutes ago, Farmer colt said:

Plus remember this is still Peps offense, just a different guy ruining it.

Wow.

58 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If you would stop the Pep apology tour and just stick to the topic at hand people might see that you have some valid points..but man get off the Pep thing...he wasn't doing a good job.

See why I brought up Pep.  Now we are blaming his "offense."  First it was his play calling.  Now that he's "dead" and gone his "offense" still lingers?  Really.  That's the reason for us being outscored 26-96 in two weeks......the corpse of Pep Hamilton's offense?  You can't make this stuff up if you tried!!  I'm done.

 

When will people just admit this team is not that good this year AND poorly coached.  Admit it.  You can still love the team and admit it's failures and not have to blame it on one guy as a way of making sense of it.

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So... we are gonna blame the defense for the offense only being able to put up 16 points (which 7 was scored by the defense..)?  We are gonna blame the defense for turning the ball over and consistently putting the defense in positions to fail? 

 

Lol. The logic of this board is ridiculous.  I've never been a fan of Manusky.  Never have thought he was a great DC.  But its pretty apparent that this defense is being severely handicapped by the inept ability of the offense all year.  That and we lost our star D-lineman which has completely changed the front aspect of the defense.  You can fire everyone you want but until our QB's start to actually play good QB play then we will continue to have these problems.  Want a better defense yea ok I get that.  But no defense will last long when the offense is putting them with only 20 yards at their back and/or turning over the ball on their own side of the field.  It just doesn't happen.  We need to be able to actually move the ball.  I'm not even talking scoring I just want this defense to be able to move the ball without getting lucky on one single deep throw to TY.

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16 minutes ago, tikyle said:

Wow.

See why I brought up Pep.  Now we are blaming his "offense."  First it was his play calling.  Now that he's "dead" and gone his "offense" still lingers?  Really.  That's the reason for us being outscored 26-96 in two weeks......the corpse of Pep Hamilton's offense?  You can't make this stuff up if you tried!!  I'm done.

 

When will people just admit this team is not that good this year AND poorly coached.  Admit it.  You can still love the team and admit it's failures and not have to blame it on one guy as a way of making sense of it.

Fact is it is still his offense. You can't just change the names and all the plays midseason on the fly. They are still running primarily his offense with a few of Chuds wrinkles thrown in. It takes a whole preseason and training camp to install a NEW offense..sometimes longer...so this is still Peps offense....and while Pep isn't calling the plays that is about all we can change right now. Pep did an awful job....that's a fact. Chud hasn't done much better but his hands are still tied to what the offense allows. That said....Pep is gone..not coming back...and wouldn't have even if he survived the season (which he didn't deserve to do). Regardless if Chuck or Ryan should be gone as well Pep was just as much a part of the problem as any of them. Like I said...you are right with the bolded part....but your obsession with trying to say Pep didn't deserve to go clouds any good points you are making. I don't think anyone thinks ALL our problems was Pep...but that doesn't also mean firing him wasn't a good thing.

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3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I'm not saying the Colts should replace Grigson but there are some qualified candidates out there.  Tom Heckert in Denver could be a good one,   Jeff Ireland with the Saints has experience and could be ready for another shot at GM.

 

So there are people out there.

I'm sure there are.  But people around here act like better options are walking the streets.  I think Irsay has to determine if better options are available before he fires what he has.

 

And there are two options: 

 

Hire a former GM...the key word being "former" in that he was already fired as GM once.

Hire an up an coming personnel guy...which Irsay already did 4 years ago from the Eagles.

 

Its easy to fire.  Its not so easy to be certain you'll do better next time.

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2 hours ago, Hoose said:

Well, lets make this simple. The team is essentially being out coached every week. Unprepared offensively and defensively. Unable to adjust at half time. Special teams giving up distressingly big chunks of yardage and a couple of TD's recently. 

 

That screams Pagano and Manusky. The team needs to go in a new direction with a coach who has experience as a winner and who will bring top caliber assistants with him. 

 

Ryan Grigson is on the chopping block too, but maybe not immediately. His draft this year was solid; Langford and Gore were very good FA pickups as well; Lowrey just ok; Johnson, Herreman and Cole are done in this league, and were bad choices. 

 

To sum up: Pagano is a good guy who is in over his head. He and his under-performing tribe of coaches must go. 

I'm picking on you just to illustrate a broader point to the board. 

 

Who would have been better?  Maybe the pool of FA safeties out there were ALL just OK (which they were).  So were going to put Lowry into the fire Grigson category just because he had no ability to sign someone better? 

 

Maybe also the FA guard pool, the pass rush 34 DE pool, and the WRs pool too (although I wanted Cecil Shorts for less money)  

 

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I haven't the slightest idea of why people are absolving Manusky, the cold hard facts is that he has NEVER in his entire NFL CAREER fielded a top 10 defense... once again EVER!

 

He even took the #1 Ranked SD defense and turned it into trash in ONE season.

 

He needs to go, his play calling and defensive philosophies are comparable to a tickle me elmo.

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1 minute ago, SilentHill said:

I haven't the slightest idea of why people are absolving Manusky, the cold hard facts is that he has NEVER in his entire NFL CAREER fielded a top 10 defense... once again EVER!

 

He even took the #1 Ranked SD defense and turned it into trash in ONE season.

 

He needs to go, his play calling and defensive philosophies are comparable to a tickle me elmo.

 

I'm starting to get a bit worn out on Manusky myself.

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18 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I haven't the slightest idea of why people are absolving Manusky, the cold hard facts is that he has NEVER in his entire NFL CAREER fielded a top 10 defense... once again EVER!

 

He even took the #1 Ranked SD defense and turned it into trash in ONE season.

 

He needs to go, his play calling and defensive philosophies are comparable to a tickle me elmo.

ROASTIN!! lol

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3 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Zibikowski, Satelle, MvGlynn, Seth Olson, Vaughn,
Cherilous, Laron Landry, RJ Francois, Hakeem Nicks, DH Bay, 

TRENT RICHARDSON, Bjeorn Werner, Greg Toler, Donald Thomas, Josh Cribbs
Trent Cole, Andre Johnson, Todd Heremans, Chapman, M Hughes, K Holmes
 

 Bolded are some of our GM`s $$$ FA `s or #1 draft picks and other misses we have had (to watch)
 or are now dealing with.

The batting a1.000 comment is quite comical And perhaps out of touch. JMO of course.
 Go Colts!
 

Also thinking he could roll into this season with an aging Gore, Tipton, and 2 rookies while Bradshaw sat at home.

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13 hours ago, bavanlan said:

Got Vontae Davis for a 2nd round pick.

Signed Pro Bowler Mike Adams off the discard pile.

Drafted Henry Anderson and David Parry in mid rounds of the draft.

Got Darius Butler for a song at NB.

Brought in Langford and Lowery at a salary below their current levels of performance.

But sure, let's blame Grigson because Toler is overpaid and Cole hasn't worked out; batting 1.000 is the standard around here.

 

We don't have a single defensive player with range, and no one in the front seven that can make a play in the passing game. Four years later, this defense is still lacking talent, and devoid of a high quality pass rusher.

 

I'm not an anti-Grigson zealot, as you know, but this defense is poorly constructed for what the coaches want it to do. Ravaged with injuries, sure, but still not built very well. 

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Just now, Superman said:

 

Bradshaw lasted a month. 

Bradshaw could have gotten us a win against the Jets and not have to rely on us stopping a 2 point conversion at the end of the Titans game or rely on two missed field goals at the end of the first Jags game. Bradshaw's month was more productive than Tipton, Robinson, and Varga combined.

 

Herron should not have been in the game when he got hurt.

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53 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I haven't the slightest idea of why people are absolving Manusky, the cold hard facts is that he has NEVER in his entire NFL CAREER fielded a top 10 defense... once again EVER!

 

He even took the #1 Ranked SD defense and turned it into trash in ONE season.

 

He needs to go, his play calling and defensive philosophies are comparable to a tickle me elmo.

Manusky has his faults no doubt but the defense was ranked 11th just last year in yards allowed a game. Also I think your not taking into account that the Corners position was a mess for us a couple games with guys off the street starting at one point this year

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Just now, Gavin said:

Manusky has his faults no doubt but the defense was ranked 11th just last year in yards allowed a game. Also I think your not taking into account that the Corners position was a mess for us a couple games with guys off the street starting at one point

We beat up on our division plus the Bengals so bad it really inflated our stats.

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2 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Bradshaw could have gotten us a win against the Jets and not have to rely on us stopping a 2 point conversion at the end of the Titans game or rely on two missed field goals at the end of the first Jags game. Bradshaw's month was more productive than Tipton, Robinson, and Varga combined.

 

Herron should not have been in the game when he got hurt.

 

Yeah, okay... I disagree.

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15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

We don't have a single defensive player with range, and no one in the front seven that can make a play in the passing game. Four years later, this defense is still lacking talent, and devoid of a high quality pass rusher.

 

I'm not an anti-Grigson zealot, as you know, but this defense is poorly constructed for what the coaches want it to do. Ravaged with injuries, sure, but still not built very well. 

 

Let it be known: The first time Superman has criticized Grigson.

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5 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 They won the SB the 1st year he was gone. So ...

Soooo different. Gruden took over Dungy's roster that was already built, didn't change anything, and got to coach against the team that fired him one year prior in the SB. After that the Bucs were basically a .500 team for the rest of Gruden's tenure.

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16 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Manusky has his faults no doubt but the defense was ranked 11th just last year in yards allowed a game. Also I think your not taking into account that the Corners position was a mess for us a couple games with guys off the street starting at one point this year

 

There are a lot of contributing factors, but his hiring has simply been a bust and you can't argue that.

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17 hours ago, Shive said:

Worst idea I've ever heard. A successful college coach that was average at best in the NFL with full control? See the Eagles for how well that goes. Hell, Nick Saban's not even on my list.

We should get Spurrier!!!!  HAHAHAHA!  Sorry, couldn't help myself...You're right, Saban is not built for the NFL.

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55 minutes ago, bababooey said:
43 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:
39 minutes ago, SilentHill said:
39 minutes ago, SilentHill said:
39 minutes ago, SilentHill said:
39 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

There are a lot of contributing factors, but his hiring has simply been a bust and you can't argue that.

There are a lot of contributing factors, but his hiring has simply been a bust and you can't argue that.

There are a lot of contributing factors, but his hiring has simply been a bust and you can't argue that.

There are a lot of contributing factors, but his hiring has simply been a bust and you can't argue that.

Besides the fact that he don't have much talent on the defense to work with, The offense has been missing in action this year, The run game has been non existant.....well....for years now then no your right I cant argue that and these numbers:

 

2011-4th in yards allowed a game average with the 49ers

2010-13th (49ers)

2009-15th (49ers)

2008-13th (49ers)

 

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You want a coach that will make a difference, give the team or their side of the ball some identity. I really can't think of anything that we are doing better than we did the years before Pagano & Manusky too over the D. Run D still is appalling. We still give up to many 3rd down conversions. We still give up too many big plays. We still have trouble rushing the QB. We still show a real lack of overall toughness. We don't do anything exceptionally well. Our scheme doesn't cause offenses any particular trouble. 

I don't know, maybe we aren't all that bad, but we definitely aren't good at any particular thing. Scheme, coaching, personnel, probably some of all three, which to me is worse than it being just one thing. At least if it was all on coaching or scheme or personnel, then making a change, one change, you think, would really make a difference.

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18 hours ago, DougDew said:

No.  Its venting anger when people demand firing the coach or GM but then not supplying the name of his replacement. 

I'd bet about 90% of the people calling for Grigsons job don't even know one name of a qualified candidate who would be available and better.

Eric DeCosta

Eliot Wolf 

 

 

 

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