Whom is to blame for this train wreck Defense?

[Pacergeek]

Grigson, Pagano, or Manusky? 

Grigson is in charge of roster management, and our defense lacks playmakers and a pass rush. Should these players be better, or are the coaches doing a poor job developing our players?

Pagano is the HC, and was known for being a strong defensive coach. Is Pagano not doing his part, or are the players just that bad on defense?

Manusky is the DC. Not sure how is role is different from Pagano to be honest. Maybe he could be good if he had better players.

I guess it comes down to if the players are really this bad, or are the coaches not helping these guys play better

[AlanNC]

Grigson and Pagano.  Manusky has been a bad DC since he was hired.

[GoColts8818]

Coaches, players not playing well, the offense going three and out all of the third quarter, injuries.  Take your pick there is a lot to pick from.

[DougDew]

Who should replace them? 

Firing someone is a bad form of anger management.

[Coltfreak]

1 minute ago, Pacergeek said:

Grigson, Pagano, or Manusky? 

Grigson is in charge of roster management, and our defense lacks playmakers and a pass rush. Should these players be better, or are the coaches doing a poor job developing our players?

Pagano is the HC, and was known for being a strong defensive coach. Is Pagano not doing his part, or are the players just that bad on defense?

Manusky is the DC. Not sure how is role is different from Pagano to be honest. Maybe he could be good if he had better players.

I guess it comes down to if the players are really this bad, or are the coaches not helping these guys play better

Not sure why everyone labels Pags as a strong, great, guru or whatever on D.  He was a DB coach on the Ravens before being elevated to DC and had Ray Lewis Ndagta and Ed Reed for one yr. 

He really didnt have to do much with those guys.  Ray even said they coached themselves.

Pags is Herm Edwards...  King of the Cliche .... and a good DB coach  and that is all

[NBColtsFanatic]

All of them.

[NBColtsFanatic]

18 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Who should replace them? 

Firing someone is a bad form of anger management.

Fans felt the same way with Mora back in Peyton's 4th season. He was fired and Dungy was brought in...how did that work out? (Good) it's not anger management, it's frustration and the obvious answer.

[twfish]

4 minutes ago, NBColtsFanatic said:

Fans felt the same way with Mora back in Peyton's 4th season. He was fired and Dungy was brought in...how did that work out? (Good) it's not anger management, it's frustration and the obvious answer.

Tampa Bay did that with dungy, how did that work out for them? (Not so good)

[Mr.Debonair]

Everyone

[indyagent17]

The defense was great in the first half but when an offense struggles it takes a toll on the defense/

Also a sack,fumble,6 and a punt return changed the game and gave them confidence 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, indyagent17 said:

The defense was great in the first half but when an offense struggles it takes a toll on the defense/

Also a sack,fumble,6 and a punt return changed the game and gave them confidence 

That fumble was huge the Colts had the Jags on the ropes looking to go up either 20-3 or 16-3 before halftime and they let the Jags back into it.  They then went three and out to start the second half and the Jags got the homerun pass followed by another quick stop and the punt return and it was katy bar the door time at that point.

[Colts_Fan12]

All 3 suck clean the slate 

[DougDew]

37 minutes ago, NBColtsFanatic said:

Fans felt the same way with Mora back in Peyton's 4th season. He was fired and Dungy was brought in...how did that work out? (Good) it's not anger management, it's frustration and the obvious answer.

No.  Its venting anger when people demand firing the coach or GM but then not supplying the name of his replacement. 

I'd bet about 90% of the people calling for Grigsons job don't even know one name of a qualified candidate who would be available and better.

[NBColtsFanatic]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No.  Its venting anger when people demand firing the coach or GM but then not supplying the name of his replacement. 

I'd bet about 90% of the people calling for Grigsons job don't even know one name of a qualified candidate who would be available and better.

I'm sure Irsay could find a replacement within days or weeks. He did the same when firing Caldwell, and the Polians with the regime we had now, I don't see how it would be any different now. I already have one option-Nick Saban, he takes control of everything.. That took me less than 1 minute to think up.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, NBColtsFanatic said:

I'm sure Irsay could find a replacement within days or weeks. He did the same when firing Caldwell, and the Polians with the regime we had now, I don't see how it would be any different now. I already have one option-Nick Saban, he takes control of everything.. That took me less than 1 minute to think up.

He replaced Caldwell with Pagano and Polian with Grigson, both of whom you want to fire now. 

Nick Saban...I said better and available.  I'd hate to fire Grigson only to have Saban turn me down later.

Its easy to fire someone.  Its not so easy to hire someone better than the one you fired. 

[Shive]

4 minutes ago, NBColtsFanatic said:

I already have one option-Nick Saban, he takes control of everything.. That took me less than 1 minute to think up.

Worst idea I've ever heard. A successful college coach that was average at best in the NFL with full control? See the Eagles for how well that goes. Hell, Nick Saban's not even on my list.

[sfergson727]

Well, Pagano is supposedly a defensive coach, and our defense has stunk since day one, so he is definitely to blame.  Grigson has farted away our roster, so he is to blame.  Manusky is the defensive coordinator so he is to blame as well.  So is Irsay for putting this coaching staff together.  So yes, they all are to blame.  

 

Time to fire the coaches and start fresh, because the air in here smells like an Indiana pig farm.

[Patagonia Chris]

All three of them. How many players on this defense would start for any contender in the NFL? Vontae Davis, but then who else? Robert Mathis isn't the player he once was. It's time to start over. Grigson inherited a franchise QB and for the last three years he had enough cap space to sign almost anyone he could want. He has squandered it all. The good news for him is that the Eagles should have a few openings in their front office next year.

[Gavin]

The players. Last I checked they are the ones that play

[ColtsBlueFL]

I heard a story once, I think it was Pat Kirwin who told it on his 'Moving the Chains" Sirius XM radio show..  It mentioned the day a new Head Coach started his job, he was directed to 3 envelopes in his upper right drawer.  Thinking the previous HC had left some extra gold nuggets of wisdom for him, he looked at the envelopes, and a note attached on them.  The note said, as long as you are winning, leave these envelopes alone.  But if the season goes really bad, open envelope number 1.

At some point, he opens #1.  Inside the note says  "Fire the Offensive Coordinator". "Do not open envelope #2 unless the season continues to go really poorly."

So later the HC opens envelope #2.  Inside the note says "Fire the Defensive Coordinator."  "Do not open #3 unless there's nothing else you can do and the season is winding down and is is atrocious."

A few games later he finally opens envelope / letter #3.  Inside the note says-

"Prepare 3 new envelopes and notes for the next new Head Coach."

 

 

[Patagonia Chris]

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I heard a story once, I think it was Pat Kirwin who told it on his 'Moving the Chains" Sirius XM radio show..  It mentioned the day a new Head Coach started his job, he was directed to 3 envelopes in his upper right drawer.  Thinking the previous HC had left some extra gold nuggets of wisdom for him, he looked at the envelopes, and a note attached on them.  The note said, as long as you are winning, leave these envelopes alone.  But if the season goes really bad, open envelope number 1.

At some point, he opens #1.  Inside the note says  "Fire the Offensive Coordinator". "Do not open envelope #2 unless the season continues to go really poorly."

So later the HC opens envelope #2.  Inside the note says "Fire the Defensive Coordinator."  "Do not open #3 unless there's nothing else you can do and the season is winding down and is is atrocious."

A few games later he finally opens envelope / letter #3.  Inside the note says-

"Prepare 3 new envelopes and notes for the next new Head Coach."

 

 

Bobby Valentine used to tell that story all of the time when he was hired as manager of the Boston Red Sox.

[ThaCaliColt]

Pagano doesn't have answers. I never felt he was particularly bright and I'm not sure what he has really accomplished to have ever been considered an NFL head coaching candidate. A great coach wouldn't tolerate blowout losses. He would show emotion and fire. He would instill fear in the minds of the players...not just respect. This team may respect him and he may be beloved (supposedly) in the locker room, but that is not what is translated on the field. And his post game comments, more and more, reveal he doesn't have any answers nor is he angry or upset when his team creates a highlight reel for the opposing team on a week in and week out basis. Clean house Irsay, for the love of God...

[ThaCaliColt]

5 minutes ago, ThaCaliColt said:

 

 

[Iancolts]

Grigson and manunsky!!  You know what I've support Pagano all year and the last two games kind of made me guess my support for him.  

[ThaCaliColt]

And the defense just flat out sucks hard. Can't manufacture a pass rush, can't cover, can't tackle. Poor coaching and average to below average talent. Bargain off 2/3 of this defense for a bag of Doritos and let's start building a legitimate team starting in the draft beginning with our top 10-15 draft pick we earn once the Texans embarrass us next week and rightfully take control of this miserable division.  

[ThaCaliColt]

Gee, can anyone tell I'm angry?

[lennymoore24]

I think all of the above, but I think Grigson gets the bulk of it.  I was thinking today watching Jabaar Sheard on the Patriots.  Pats got him for less then we got Trent Cole.  Sheard fits the role the Patriots use him in very well and gets heat.  He is young and will grow.  Cole is older, slower, and costs more. We make too many of those signings.

[SteelDragon]

Grigson is the architect of this unmitigated disaster. Start there. 

[ReMeDy]

6 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

I think all of the above, but I think Grigson gets the bulk of it.  I was thinking today watching Jabaar Sheard on the Patriots.  Pats got him for less then we got Trent Cole.  Sheard fits the role the Patriots use him in very well and gets heat.  He is young and will grow.  Cole is older, slower, and costs more. We make too many of those signings.

 

And I'm noticing that's a huge trend with Grigson. We went from being one of the youngest teams in the NFL under the Polians to one of the oldest teams. We went with old veterans to anchor a young team of upstarts, since Jim Irsay cleaned house while a lot of the other players went their separate ways.

[Gavin]

A mix of injuries and Grigson. He has put some talent out there so he can not be all to blame, Its not like we are playing with 2 Greg Tolers at Corner and Mike Adams has played well overall and Lowery. Grigsons missed on some talent however or traded away some (Hughes). Its a mix despite many people wanting to head hunt

[bavanlan]

Got Vontae Davis for a 2nd round pick.

Signed Pro Bowler Mike Adams off the discard pile.

Drafted Henry Anderson and David Parry in mid rounds of the draft.

Got Darius Butler for a song at NB.

Brought in Langford and Lowery at a salary below their current levels of performance.

But sure, let's blame Grigson because Toler is overpaid and Cole hasn't worked out; batting 1.000 is the standard around here.

[GoColts8818]

48 minutes ago, bavanlan said:

Got Vontae Davis for a 2nd round pick.

Signed Pro Bowler Mike Adams off the discard pile.

Drafted Henry Anderson and David Parry in mid rounds of the draft.

Got Darius Butler for a song at NB.

Brought in Langford and Lowery at a salary below their current levels of performance.

But sure, let's blame Grigson because Toler is overpaid and Cole hasn't worked out; batting 1.000 is the standard around here.

I think it's a mistake to blame it all on Grigson or anyone person for that matter.  I think the whole thing this year has had some failure across the board rather it be Grigson, Pagano, other coaches, or players.  

I also think sometimes things just happen and it's not your year.  The Colts have caught very few breaks this year especially in the injury department and I just don't think it's their year.  

I agree with you people need to be more fair in pointing out the good that Grigson has done rather than just tossing it out because it doesn't support the Grigson sucks narrative.

[Malakai432]

At first I was like, "Hey, we got a good game here at the half."  I thought the Colts were poised to win.  Then BAM out scored 42-3 in the second half and my dreams were crushed.  

[Dustin]

Reminder that some literal who journey-man we picked off the street was starting above our 2nd round pick cornerback. Grigson is mostly to blame. Can't wait til he's gone too

[BrentMc11]

I think it is a HUGE problem when a team does not come to play for 60 minutes.  That is not the coaches job to get these guys to give more effort.  Sure before the game some rah rah.   

 

When the defense is on the field the majority of the second half....you've got some tired football players.

[Defjamz26]

Just now, DougDew said:

No.  Its venting anger when people demand firing the coach or GM but then not supplying the name of his replacement. 

I'd bet about 90% of the people calling for Grigsons job don't even know one name of a qualified candidate who would be available and better.

 

Eric DeCosta

[Coffeedrinker]

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

No.  Its venting anger when people demand firing the coach or GM but then not supplying the name of his replacement. 

I'd bet about 90% of the people calling for Grigsons job don't even know one name of a qualified candidate who would be available and better.

I'm not saying the Colts should replace Grigson but there are some qualified candidates out there.  Tom Heckert in Denver could be a good one,   Jeff Ireland with the Saints has experience and could be ready for another shot at GM.

 

So there are people out there.

[krunk]

I think the offense right now is the hugest difference maker for the defensive performance.  Offense is doing jack crap nothing right now. Defense is on the field too long and having to overcome too much.  Then of course there are the injury guys we have missing, and this dumb bell defensive coordinator who has left me scratching my head as of late.  Why are UDFA players starting over guys you have drafted, or given up draft picks to obtain?  Put them in the game and let them play dummy!

[throwing BBZ]

11 hours ago, twfish said:

Tampa Bay did that with dungy, how did that work out for them? (Not so good)

 

 They won the SB the 1st year he was gone. So ...

[Jonathan24]

Grigs.. Not investing into the defense...and chuck wanted to compare this jax lost to the one of 2006...lol that team had a pass rush and this one doesnt..