Fan Duel Draft Kings shut down in NY

[ColtsBlueFL]

"A New York judge on Friday ruled that daily fantasy sports companies FanDuel and DraftKings must cease operating in the state for now, in what could be a crippling blow to the fast-growing, multibillion-dollar industry.New York Supreme Court Justice Manuel Mendez granted an injunction sought by Attorney General Eric Schneiderman after hearing arguments last month over whether daily fantasy sports games amounted to illegal games of chance or lawful ones involving skill."

New York is the second biggest DFS market behind only California.  Full stories here-

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/12/11/judge-orders-draftkings-shut-down-new-york/p4B99SqAYbaTFzsU2HhZNK/story.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fantasysports-new-york-idUSKBN0TU1UA20151211

{NFL General because it is based upon real NFL players, and the NFL is watching this one closely}

 

[jvan1973]

Just what we need,   more government interference in our lives

[BrentMc11]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Just what we need,   more government interference in our lives

Not going to argue that!!  I do think there is   something shady about them.  I actually wanted to try it...I would get hooked...so I did not.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, BrentMc11 said:

Not going to argue that!!  I do think there is   something shady about them.  I actually wanted to try it...I would get hooked...so I did not.

I would get hooked too so I stay away from Fantasy Sports when it involves money. It's all luck anyway IMO. It's like playing a slot machine, you could hit for a Thousand if you get the right machine and only put in 100 to do so on a dollar machine for example but then again you could also lose a Thousand if you aren't careful and get carried away by keeping going for hours thinking you will win.

[BrentMc11]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would get hooked too so I stay away from Fantasy Sports when it involves money. It's all luck anyway IMO. It's like playing a slot machine, you could hit for a Thousand if you get the right machine and only put in 100 to do so on a dollar machine for example but then again you could also lose a Thousand if you aren't careful and get carried away by keeping going for hours thinking you will win.

The best way to double your money?  Take a 1 dollar bill and fold it in half...:)

[ColtsBlueFL]

I get the feeling the NFL is also shady toward DFS.  They feel year long Fantsasy is great.  Interaction with the players of the league and getting closer to the sport and less about ultimate  victory.  I think they feel DFS is more about casting a lot, and raking in cash every week, and not so much interaction with the players and sport. More ephasis on making money than interaction with the League and its players.

Also the NFL wants distance from anything to do with their league and huge money that has even the slightest hint of shadiness to it, perceived or real.

[dw49]

58 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Just what we need,   more government interference in our lives

 

 

Pat of the story is the Indian Casinos and race tracks both contribute to the political parties and the casinos line certain "pockets" I'm sure. They don't want "their gamblers" losing their money to Fan Draft.

[ColtRider]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I get the feeling the NFL is also shady toward DFS.  They feel year long Fantsasy is great.  Interaction with the players of the league and getting closer to the sport and less about ultimate  victory.  I think they feel DFS is more about casting a lot, and raking in cash every week, and not so much interaction with the players and sport. More ephasis on making money than interaction with the League and its players.

Also the NFL wants distance from anything to do with their league and huge money that has even the slightest hint of shadiness to it, perceived or real.

Your last sentence couldn't have been written any better. The last thing the NFL needs is continued black eyes like we've seen over the past few seasons.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, BrentMc11 said:

The best way to double your money?  Take a 1 dollar bill and fold it in half...:)

I just don't really get that quote.  Is it supposed to just be a silly play on words?  Or is it some economical proverb that's way over my head?

[Moose Of Woe]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Just what we need,   more government interference in our lives

This is a rare case where I'm glad to have them meddle. The sole reason being not to be blasted with FanDuel commercials during EVERY.SINGLE.BREAK.

[Derakynn]

39 minutes ago, Moose Of Woe said:

This is a rare case where I'm glad to have them meddle. The sole reason being not to be blasted with FanDuel commercials during EVERY.SINGLE.BREAK.

What, they don't make your Sundays a lot more interesting? 

[jvan1973]

42 minutes ago, Moose Of Woe said:

This is a rare case where I'm glad to have them meddle. The sole reason being not to be blasted with FanDuel commercials during EVERY.SINGLE.BREAK.

You're still gonna get the commercials.    It's still legal in most states

[Moose Of Woe]

7 minutes ago, Derakynn said:

What, they don't make your Sundays a lot more interesting? 

It only fills my Sundays with rage.

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You're still gonna get the commercials.    It's still legal in most states

You raised my hopes and then dashed them in an instant.

[BrentMc11]

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I just don't really get that quote.  Is it supposed to just be a silly play on words?  Or is it some economical proverb that's way over my head?

It is a poor man's way of saying he won't gamble because he can lose it in a New York second.  At least he has that 1 dollar in his pocket.(Not a vagrant)

[OffensivelyPC]

6 minutes ago, BrentMc11 said:

It is a poor man's way of saying he won't gamble because he can lose it in a New York second.  At least he has that 1 dollar in his pocket.(Not a vagrant)

Ha!  Would have never have guessed, lol.  Thanks!

[18Manning]

4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

"A New York judge on Friday ruled that daily fantasy sports companies FanDuel and DraftKings must cease operating in the state for now, in what could be a crippling blow to the fast-growing, multibillion-dollar industry.New York Supreme Court Justice Manuel Mendez granted an injunction sought by Attorney General Eric Schneiderman after hearing arguments last month over whether daily fantasy sports games amounted to illegal games of chance or lawful ones involving skill."

New York is the second biggest DFS market behind only California.  Full stories here-

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/12/11/judge-orders-draftkings-shut-down-new-york/p4B99SqAYbaTFzsU2HhZNK/story.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-fantasysports-new-york-idUSKBN0TU1UA20151211

{NFL General because it is based upon real NFL players, and the NFL is watching this one closely}

 

I think there will be other states to follow.

[ColtRider]

8 minutes ago, 18Manning said:

I think there will be other states to follow.

Pretty sure you can count on that.

[ColtRider]

4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Just what we need,   more government interference in our lives

Geez-Lu-eez. Don't get me started on this. Arrgghh.

[ColtRider]

FanDuel & DraftKings claim there's strategy involved. I'd like to see how they use this to confirm. Even if it's a minuscule point of certainty and I'm assuming it's waaaay less than 50%, how can you not determine it's gambling? That's the problem. Can't see this going forward without some kind of regulation(s). And that's the point, isn't it? Hands in the till? You better believe it.

[southwest1]

11 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Just what we need,   more government interference in our lives

How is making sure that these sites are following state & federal laws a bad thing exactly? 

Or making sure that rival employees from NfL Draft Kings don't use their information on players to make a lopsided financial killing on Fan Duel acceptable to you? 

But, you're right Jvan, who needs fairness & a level playing field to ensure that the betting isn't being rigged?

Sarcasm intended. 

[pacolts56]

Looks like that ruling was overturned on appeal less than 6 hours later.

They're back in business for the time being....

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/14344676/appeals-court-grants-stay-allowing-draftkings-fanduel-continue-operating-new-york

[ColtsBlueFL]

Big money and Big lawyers  lining up.  The American way! Next up? For now the next major legal showdown will come sometime after Jan. 4, when a panel of five New York judges will decide whether to extend the freeze or allow Mendez’s shutdown order to go into effect.

"The most troubling development for DraftKings on Friday came early in the day when lower court Judge Manual Mendez ruled that Schneiderman was likely to prevail in arguing the contests are a form of gambling prohibited by state law. He issued an injunction order blocking the firms from operating in New York — an order that was overturned hours later.

In his ruling, Mendez said the balance of interests favored Schneiderman and the state “due to their interest in protecting the public, particularly those with gambling addictions.”

“The protection of the general public outweighs any potential loss of business,” Mendez wrote.

Moreover, Mendez expressed skepticism of the defenses DraftKings’ high-powered legal team had offered, including that the entry fees it charges are not bets and that its contests are legal games of skill. The judge noted that New York’s laws do not define gambling activity by the words “wagering or betting,” but rather, as risking “something of value.”

“The payment of an ‘entry fee’ as high as $10,600.00 on one or more contests daily could certainly be deemed risking ‘something of value,’ ” Mendez wrote in his decision. “The language [of the law] is broadly worded and as currently written sufficient for finding that [daily fantasy sports] involves illegal gambling.”

PayPal an BoA have restarted processing payments in NY, but are watching the courts / case closely.

[ReMeDy]

One other thing that distinguishes this from gambling is you can't do this all year long. Once football season is over, you're done, unless you hopscotch to another sport. For those who can't suppress their gambling addictions, off-season is a nice reprieve.

[jvan1973]

14 hours ago, southwest1 said:

How is making sure that these sites are following state & federal laws a bad thing exactly? 

Or making sure that rival employees from NfL Draft Kings don't use their information on players to make a lopsided financial killing on Fan Duel acceptable to you? 

But, you're right Jvan, who needs fairness & a level playing field to ensure that the betting isn't being rigged?

Sarcasm intended. 

The employees are no longer allowed to play.    So what is unfair exactly?   

 

And what laws were they not following exactly? 

[DougDew]

I think this is a good ruling, and I would like to see the activity outlawed and the companies disbanded.

A state lottery is supposed to be a generator of revenue for government projects, although it certainly does have its problems of attracting those who generally cant afford to play.  At least the goal is a nonforprofit benefit to society.

Sports betting blends an addictive quality to a private profit generating company.  Not a lot different than tobacco companies spiking cigs to make them more addictive and compel people to spend 5 bucks a pack. 

I'm sure there can be many arguments made against my position, but the entire business seems sleezy to me because it seems to prey on our personality weaknesses....even though people are enjoying themselves.

[southwest1]

4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

The employees are no longer allowed to play.    So what is unfair exactly?   

 

And what laws were they not following exactly? 

I see no problem with forbidding employees that work for the same company no betting privileges actually because the employees might be privy to insider information namely how either Fan Duel or NFL Draft kings crunches or compiles their statistical numbers.

You honestly don't see the conflict of interest here which could place an employee at a decided advantage when placing an online bet that a customer who doesn't work for either site would never have? Come on Jvan. You're a smart man. You know this. Companies restrict their employees all the time when they deal with highly sensitive financial matters. You can't expect either site to monitor themselves fairly can you? You need the federal government to perform independent fiscal audits annually to remove the threat of corruption, bribery, & deter the possibility of hiding lucrative transactions off shore outside US jurisdiction laws both domestically & internationally. 

How do we know what laws may or may not be followed without independent oversight being conducted first? I don't trust gambling sites to behave themselves personally. 

What you initially termed "government interference" I call establishing common sense regulations that protect the average consumer from fraud, deception, & being taken to the cleaners with no independent watch dog agency designed to ensure that both Fan Duel & Draft Kings is above board with no ties to say organized crime. JMO. 

In addition, I would presume that 1 employee used their company's computer data to place bets on their competitor's site so can't we safely assume that employees have already proven that they will use information incorrectly to line their own pockets for personal financial gain already? 

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think this is a good ruling, and I would like to see the activity outlawed and the companies disbanded.

A state lottery is supposed to be a generator of revenue for government projects, although it certainly does have its problems of attracting those who generally cant afford to play.  At least the goal is a nonforprofit benefit to society.

Sports betting blends an addictive quality to a private profit generating company.  Not a lot different than tobacco companies spiking cigs to make them more addictive and compel people to spend 5 bucks a pack. 

I'm sure there can be many arguments made against my position, but the entire business seems sleezy to me because it seems to prey on our personality weaknesses....even though people are enjoying themselves.

There are legal casinos in new York.    What is the difference?   Why limit what citizens can do?   If a person has a gambling addiction,   they are going to get their fix no matter what laws are put in place.   Illegal gambling is far more dangerous than going to a casino or playing daily fantasy

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I see no problem with forbidding employees that work for the same company no betting privileges actually because the employees might be privy to insider information namely how either Fan Duel or NFL Draft kings crunches or compiles their statistical numbers.

You honestly don't see the conflict of interest here which could place an employee at a decided advantage when placing an online bet that a customer who doesn't work for either site would never have? Come on Jvan. You're a smart man. You know this. Companies restrict their employees all the time when they deal with highly sensitive financial matters. You can't expect either site to monitor themselves fairly can you? You need the federal government to perform independent fiscal audits annual to remove the threat of corruption, bribery, & deter the possibility of hiding lucrative transactions off shore outside US jurisdiction laws both domestically & internationally. 

How do we know what laws may or may not be followed without independent oversight being conducted first? I don't trust gambling sites to behave themselves personally. 

What you initially termed "government interference" I call establishing common sense regulations that protect the average consumer from fraud, deception, & being taken to the cleaners with no independent watch dog agency designed to ensure that both Fan Duel & Draft Kings is above board with no ties to say organized crime. JMO. 

Draftkings and Fanduel do not allow their employees to play daily fantasy.  So that advantage is not an option. 

 

Also,  they have no reason to be shady with their business ethics.  They are making huge money and don't want to be reason for their own demise.  Im sure both companies have very strong legal teams to make sure everything is on the up and up.

 

Bottom line is,   the state wants a bigger piece of the pie and are trying to shut them down.   This action has nothing to do with protecting the people

[crazycolt1]

14 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

One other thing that distinguishes this from gambling is you can't do this all year long. Once football season is over, you're done, unless you hopscotch to another sport. For those who can't suppress their gambling addictions, off-season is a nice reprieve.

The hopscotch as you call it has been going on already. The MMA is also huge in the betting sites.

[southwest1]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Draftkings and Fanduel do not allow their employees to play daily fantasy.  So that advantage is not an option. 

 

Also,  they have no reason to be shady with their business ethics.  They are making huge money and don't want to be reason for their own demise.  Im sure both companies have very strong legal teams to make sure everything is on the up and up.

 

Bottom line is,   the state wants a bigger piece of the pie and are trying to shut them down.   This action has nothing to do with protecting the people

Greed knows no bounds Jvan. If a company made 50 million last quarter, they wanna triple their profits in the next quarter by any means necessary. Personal wealth & company solidarity & strength seldom co-exist with 1 another when it comes to betting websites. 

If a corporation resides within NY city why should they be exempt from contributing to the local economy? They still drive across state roads & bridges do they not to come into work everyday correct? So, you think these companies are entitled to sovereign nation status like a casino on reservation land then? Why? 

[jvan1973]

8 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Greed knows no bounds Jvan. If a company made 50 million last quarter, they wanna triple their profits in the next quarter by any means necessary. Personal wealth & company solidarity & strength seldom co-exist with 1 another when it comes to betting websites. 

If a corporation resides within NY city why should they be exempt from contributing to the local economy? They still drive across state roads & bridges do they not to come into work everyday correct? So, you think these companies are entitled to sovereign nation status like a casino on reservation land then? Why? 

I'm quite positive they pay taxes on there profits.  That isn't why they were shut down

[southwest1]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I'm quite positive they pay taxes on there profits.  That isn't why they were shut down

You're probably right, but according to your last quote: 

"the state wants a bigger piece of the pie and are trying to shut them down.   This action has nothing to do with protecting the people"

I would say that protecting US citizens comes in many forms: Independent oversight, frequent audits by Uncle Sam that are not broadcast to Fan Duel or Draft Kings in advance, & if a company building resides in Manhattan, they should contribute to the community & state that they live & work in, especially when a portion of property taxes goes to say road maintenance, zoning fees, & water & sewer fees etc. etc. 

No ones knows not you, not me, not the NY public what taxes either company has paid until the IRS audits them. At my age, I take nothing at face value anymore. 

[DougDew]

39 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

There are legal casinos in new York.    What is the difference?   Why limit what citizens can do?   If a person has a gambling addiction,   they are going to get their fix no matter what laws are put in place.   Illegal gambling is far more dangerous than going to a casino or playing daily fantasy

I think having to drive to a casino makes it much more of an entertaining "night out" and less of an addictive preying type of arrangement than is being able to bet from your home computer.  Its kind of like an alcoholic having a steady supply in his fridge instead of having to go to a bar to get it.  Not a perfect analogy, but there is a difference in the risk of addiction when there is more effort and expense to getting the fix than having it one easy click away.

But I have a problem with casinos too, because of the business model that allows profits to go up as a person's defenses get weaker.  I also have a problem with food companies spiking food with a bunch of substances that simply make it taste good so that we treat food as a fun recreational activity as opposed to simple sustenance, a situation that promotes gluttony.

I'm not advocating anything specific.  I just think it should all go away.

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think having to drive to a casino makes it much more of an entertaining "night out" and less of an addictive preying type of arrangement than is being able to bet from your home computer.  Its kind of like an alcoholic having a steady supply in his fridge instead of having to go to a bar to get it.  Not a perfect analogy, but there is a difference in the risk of addiction when there is more effort and expense to getting the fix than having it one easy click away.

But I have a problem with casinos too, because of the business model that allows profits to go up as a person's defenses get weaker.  I also have a problem with food companies spiking food with a bunch of substances that simply make it taste good so that we treat food as a fun recreational activity as opposed to simple sustenance, a situation that promotes gluttony.

I'm not advocating anything specific.  I just think it should all go away.

If you don't want to participate,   don't.   But let people live their lives and spend their money the way they want

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

You're probably right, but according to your last quote: 

"the state wants a bigger piece of the pie and are trying to shut them down.   This action has nothing to do with protecting the people"

I would say that protecting US citizens comes in many forms: Independent oversight, frequent audits by Uncle Sam that are not broadcast to Fan Duel or Draft Kings in advance, & if a company building resides in Manhattan, they should contribute to the community & state that they live & work in, especially when a portion of property taxes goes to say road maintenance, zoning fees, & water & sewer fees etc. etc. 

No ones knows not you, not me, not the NY public what taxes either company has paid until the IRS audits them. At my age, I take nothing at face value anymore. 

No one is suggesting they shouldn't pay taxes.    No idea where you got that from

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Bottom line is,   the state wants a bigger piece of the pie and are trying to shut them down.   This action has nothing to do with protecting the people

Where did you read that? I have been searching  online for anything that would corroborate that but I have been unsuccessful. Please share that with me. Thanks.

Daily fantasy is not allowed in Arizona, Montana, Iowa, Nevada, Washington State, and Louisiana. Why is New York being singled out? 

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

Where did you read that? I have been searching  online for anything that would corroborate that but I have been unsuccessful. Please share that with me. Thanks.

Daily fantasy is not allowed in Arizona, Montana, Iowa, Nevada, Washington State, and Louisiana. Why is New York being singled out? 

Why else would they shut it down yet allow casinos to do business? 

[southwest1]

44 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No one is suggesting they shouldn't pay taxes.    No idea where you got that from

The inference in what I quoted above from you Jvan from my vantage point was this: 

I don't automatically assume gambling websites do everything by the book. Call me biased if you want that's fine,but it wouldn't be the first time a gambling entity tried to hide their assets & corporate worth. 

I can see why some regulatory agencies what to shut Fan Duel & Draft Kings down because those who are up to no good probably know where the loopholes exist online & offshore that the IRS & the FBI haven't caught up to yet in terms of cyber crime & manipulation. 

You're assuming everything is kosher with both gambling websites. Whereas, I do not. 

[NFLfan]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why else would they shut it down yet allow casinos to do business? 

That does not answer my question. You expressed that as fact when it was conjecture.

According to the NY Attorney General, daily fantasy is illegal gambling according to NY law. A judge agreed with him. I really don't care one way or the other. I just wondered where you got that information that the AG  is somehow looking to extort money from the daily fantasy industry.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

That does not answer my question. You expressed that as fact when it was conjecture.

According to the NY Attorney General, daily fantasy is illegal gambling according to NY law. A judge agreed with him. I really don't care one way or the other. I just wondered where you got that information that the AG  is somehow looking to extort money from the daily fantasy industry.

I think it's a pretty easy leap to make.   Casinos,   horse racing,  lottery,  all fine.   Daily fantasy,   illegal