Brady Quinn And Andrew Luck

[tfrugal]

Well, apparently you don't have kids and aren't forced to watch these silly shows. If you don't get it and don't understand that it was a sarcastic joke at what has been said in this thread, well, I don't know what to tell ya! Except lighten up and get over yourself.

or what, you gonna turn me into a frog?

this is not sarcastic kiddie smartmouth forum.

[Balzer40]

it seems to me we have TWO processes at work here 1) time and 2) healing.

my example would be ali before and after his suspension for not going to vietnam. he had a few years off, and was NOT the fighter he was before.

i think its pretty obvious that skillsets erode over time. speed is the first to go.

time is working against all of us even manning.

however, an example of say an ACL injury might be a good example too. when a guy comes back, he might play, but not REALLY regain the form for what, close to two years? we dont know how much this injury was degrading him. it HAD to be degrading him, or he would not have had the surgeries.

mannings game is not speed, its timing and brains. he is on record saying how he barely could make the handoff in the stretch play a few seasons ago-- thats loss of speed. timing and brains is not going away if he has his practice time.

i dont think we can make a 'math' statement like he has had 4 dog years added to his career, but neither can we state 'two years left tops'.

doogan might have overreached, coffee might have too-- but the snide remarks posted afterwards are worse. if you think silly-billy wizard retorts qualify as legit debate, you are on the wrong forum.

Good God chief, IT WAS A JOKE, for crying out loud.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Coltssouth
Insulting another member

[Balzer40]

or what, you gonna turn me into a frog?

this is not sarcastic kiddie smartmouth forum.

You must be a fun guy to be around. :rolleyes:

[Coffeedrinker]

That isn't solid proof, though, that's you pulling numbers from thin air and taking them off his age. Surgery doesn't make somebody younger! As none of us are leading medical experts (and even if we were it's still impossible to look into the future) everything we say is speculation, not "solid proof".

Unless not playing for a year actually does grant you longer to play, in which case whenever someone gets close to retirement let's give them every other year off, then going by your theory they could play forever?

Age doesn't lie. Doesn't matter how many surgeries or years u take off. Ur body still ages. Don't be so naive

But thanks for the laugh though

Yes it does. When you plug in wrong or make believe numbers.

Peyton+magic fairy dust\age*fathertime(neck injury)=Peyton 31yrs old.

Bam. The physics world has been turned upside down.

. He renovated the game. He's a super bowl Champion and 4x MVP. But apparently Peyton's real contribution to this earth is the ability to reverse time.

it seems to me we have TWO processes at work here 1) time and 2) healing.

my example would be ali before and after his suspension for not going to vietnam. he had a few years off, and was NOT the fighter he was before.

i think its pretty obvious that skillsets erode over time. speed is the first to go.

time is working against all of us even manning.

however, an example of say an ACL injury might be a good example too. when a guy comes back, he might play, but not REALLY regain the form for what, close to two years? we dont know how much this injury was degrading him. it HAD to be degrading him, or he would not have had the surgeries.

mannings game is not speed, its timing and brains. he is on record saying how he barely could make the handoff in the stretch play a few seasons ago-- thats loss of speed. timing and brains is not going away if he has his practice time.

i dont think we can make a 'math' statement like he has had 4 dog years added to his career, but neither can we state 'two years left tops'.

doogan might have overreached, coffee might have too-- but the snide remarks posted afterwards are worse. if you think silly-billy wizard retorts qualify as legit debate, you are on the wrong forum.

I really thought I went enough over the line but with the number of people that took that post seriously, perhaps not.

Apparently sarcasm and jokes are not real apparent to some without some sort of emoticom.

[tfrugal]

Good God chief, IT WAS A JOKE, for crying out loud. Is that stick stuck up there so far that its interferring with your ability to have a little humor in your life?

maybe you are not funny 'chief'.

i dont go to this forum for lowbrow humor, or insults.

as far as your stick comment, perhaps you should edit it, as its not kosher.

[Balzer40]

I really thought I went enough over the line but with the number of people that took that post seriously, perhaps not.

Apparently sarcasm and jokes are not real apparent to some without some sort of emoticom.

Now Coffee, according to tfrugal were not allowed to post any sarcasm or jokes on this forum. I must have missed it in the rules but he don't come here for that stuff. So shame on you. ;)

[Case]

I really thought I went enough over the line but with the number of people that took that post seriously, perhaps not.

Apparently sarcasm and jokes are not real apparent to some without some sort of emoticom.

[Dan]

I really thought I went enough over the line but with the number of people that took that post seriously, perhaps not.

Apparently sarcasm and jokes are not real apparent to some without some sort of emoticom.

I assumed more than one person was following the ridiculous level of thought, thinking about it I wouldn't be surprised if Doogan was joking because "durrrrrr three surgeries plus aging player equals younger player" is absurd. Sorry for missing your sarcasm!

[Coffeedrinker]

I assumed more than one person was following the ridiculous level of thought, thinking about it I wouldn't be surprised if Doogan was joking because "durrrrrr three surgeries plus aging player equals younger player" is absurd. Sorry for missing your sarcasm!

No need to apologize my man. I am not good at adding smilies.

[Horseshoe79]

No joking around, this must be a super serious thread.

[tfrugal]

Now Coffee, according to tfrugal were not allowed to post any sarcasm or jokes on this forum. I must have missed it in the rules but he don't come here for that stuff. So shame on you. ;)

gee, you got a post removed due to your inability to follow the rules. maybe you should let it go?

[mvbighead]

it seems to me we have TWO processes at work here 1) time and 2) healing.

my example would be ali before and after his suspension for not going to vietnam. he had a few years off, and was NOT the fighter he was before.

i think its pretty obvious that skillsets erode over time. speed is the first to go.

time is working against all of us even manning.

however, an example of say an ACL injury might be a good example too. when a guy comes back, he might play, but not REALLY regain the form for what, close to two years? we dont know how much this injury was degrading him. it HAD to be degrading him, or he would not have had the surgeries.

mannings game is not speed, its timing and brains. he is on record saying how he barely could make the handoff in the stretch play a few seasons ago-- thats loss of speed. timing and brains is not going away if he has his practice time.

i dont think we can make a 'math' statement like he has had 4 dog years added to his career, but neither can we state 'two years left tops'.

doogan might have overreached, coffee might have too-- but the snide remarks posted afterwards are worse. if you think silly-billy wizard retorts qualify as legit debate, you are on the wrong forum.

The reality of doogan's point is not specifically in age, but in HEALTH. That's it. You take a guy with a broken ankle, and ask him to run fast. He doesn't. You fix the broken ankle, let it heal, and then you ask him to run fast.

This same simple logic applies to Peyton. He's been struggling with a nagging neck issue over the past 2-3 seasons. If you want to look at it as an age thing, fine. You say at that point, he's playing like a 42 year old (or whatever math you want to use) because his body is in a degraded state. Now, you take that neck issue, and you fix it. You let it heal, and you bring your player back. Now, this nagging neck issue that is hopefully now gone, is no longer hindering his performance. He is now capable of playing to his age, and with a year off, he should be as healthy as he has been in the last 5 years.

That is the point Doogan was making. It's not foolish. About the only foolish part is suggesting that Manning has de-aged or whatever. The reality is, Manning very well could be more healthy at 36 than he was at 32/33. All that depends on how his rehab is going. But if he has healed, and his neck is better, he will be in a better position than he was 2-3 years ago.

As to all this and how it applies to Luck... well, you take a team and remove their starting QB, and they barely compete. That to me does not suggest that the QB is the issue. It's that the complementary pieces around him aren't good enough. Whether it is DT, CB, OL, WR, TE, HB or whatever, we would be a much better team if we put more pieces in place around Manning.

And for those that suggest we wouldn't be selecting a Manning successor, well, there are more QBs in the draft than just Luck and even RG3. The question is, can we get enough picks (and high enough picks at that) to make it worth it to pass on Luck. The Browns two firsts seem like the best bet, plus some other filler to go with it. If Luck is the prospect he is made out to be, you might see the Browns make the move, just as the Falcons did for Julio last year. This will be an interesting three months.

[Horseshoe79]

Take Luck and use the rest of those picks on defense.

[Malakai432]

Yes it does. When you plug in wrong or make believe numbers.

Peyton+magic fairy dust\age*fathertime(neck injury)=Peyton 31yrs old.

Bam. The physics world has been turned upside down.

. He renovated the game. He's a super bowl Champion and 4x MVP. But apparently Peyton's real contribution to this earth is the ability to reverse time.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice +1, you forgot to throw in divided by Pi.....

Ohh and then you take the derivative and circumference, then add in a and a , then you get Manning = 31 years old.

[JTcardscolts]

IMO the two aren't comparable all........

Quinn acted highly unprofessional at the draft and was also absent from training camp (10 days) ruining his potential starting job thus riddling him with inconsistent play time. His unprofessional attitude led him to third on the depth chart. In 2007 he started week 17 and went 3 out of 8. 2008 he played weeks 10,11,12 before breaking his finger side lining him foe the rest of the year. After more inconsistent play time in 2009 he also was injured again late in the season. He did have ample time to play in 2009 though.

Unprofessionalism, being drafted by a terrible franchise, inconsistent play and injuries all contributed to his downfall. Noone knows how good the guy really is or could be due to all those negative contributing factors. I can't see anything similar happen with Luck. If Luck even has to sit and learn under Manning for a couple year or so, Luck would more than likely eventually become a full time starter. If the Colts decide to trade Luck, whatever team he goes to will most likely place him #1 on the dc and he will become a full time starter, baring injuries ofc. Two complete different stories and two completely different players. Luck is a very professional person and low key, while Quinn seemed like more of a glitz and glamour pretty boy party type, ala fratboy.

Your entire judgement is based on Quinn during the draft and in the NFL. Physically, statistically, and the Pros about there game play, and what experts said are very similar. This is based on facts and numbers to back it up, tho Quinn, I will admit, did have a few more conserns about his play, but it is still early in the pre-draft process, much more work needs to be done.

But that's another point I make too, is how much of a pass this kid gets because of the hype the experts put on him. Oh this kid his great so take him #1. You talk about Quinn not being professional, well when Luck was asked what he thought about backing up Peyton next year, "such is life" that didn't sound to professional to me. "I would do it happily" now that's a professional response, by Robert Griffin, on the same subject.

[JTcardscolts]

And as for all u other jokesters out there, who watched an always hurt(cause he was always on the ground) Brett Frave have the best season of his career at the age of 39-40. We will see.....

FYI Frave taken in the 2nd round. Looks like he turned out pretty well and no one compared him to Elway.

[Malakai432]

Your entire judgement is based on Quinn during the draft and in the NFL. Physically, statistically, and the Pros about there game play, and what experts said are very similar. This is based on facts and numbers to back it up, tho Quinn, I will admit, did have a few more conserns about his play, but it is still early in the pre-draft process, much more work needs to be done.

But that's another point I make too, is how much of a pass this kid gets because of the hype the experts put on him. Oh this kid his great so take him #1. You talk about Quinn not being professional, well when Luck was asked what he thought about backing up Peyton next year, "such is life" that didn't sound to professional to me. "I would do it happily" now that's a professional response, by Robert Griffin, on the same subject.

You make some valid points but Luck was asked that question after taking a very tough loss after a bowl game, being hounded by the media. I think most athletes would've acted the same way. Peyton acts the exact same way when he gets asked many questions he doesn't really feel like answering, especially after losing a game. In many cases Peyton has shrugged the question off and or turned the subject. I think most athletes in his situation would respond the way Luck did, it's nothing comparable to Quinn's childish actions @ the draft and how he missed time with training camp (However as you said with Luck though, much is remained to be seen). We all know Quinn CAN act like the arrogant fratboy. At the same time I do like RGiii and think he is going to be a great player in the NFL, he's smart, unbelivably athletic, and seems respectful as we know. At the same time RGiii won the heisman and his bowl game, thus probably being much happier with the ending to his college carreer than Luck.

[Malakai432]

Double post