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NFL.com says don't blame our Oline


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I explained it but will add that if we had JJ Watt on our team, we'd have said goodbye to nearly all our high profile free agents and be unable to sign many new ones with his and Luck's contracts on the books going forward. That is a busted contract. It does not supply wins and WATT is proving that even playing out of his mind last year, or like he is this year. You disagree, but that's fine, I still think that contract will not pay off... he's the best case scenario proving it doesn't work. Aren't massive contracts offered to sign players to deliver wins? He can't do it. He couldn't even beat our 40 year old back up QB. It is a bust. You and I almost never agree on anything so it's all good.

Lol you almost never agree with one of the most informed football posters on this board? That's not good.

Just an FYI massive contracts exist because those players are in high demand. You act like Houston purposely put a large sum of cap into a player who didn't deserve it. JJ Watt is playing at the level of one of the most dominate defensive players to ever play. It isn't his fault that Houston can't put anything around him.

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Don't post much but have to call this report nonsense. Comparing Luck's time to Brady's is like comparing apples to oranges.Brady's offense is a short quick offense that is designed to hit quick. What's amazing he has more than one open receiver in those two seconds and he has a clear throwing lane.

Luck's pocket is pushed back 5 to 6 yaeds almost immediately and he has no throwing lanes and no open receivers.No question Luck is making bad decisions but to say his OL is performing well is laughable.Every draft report goes into detail as to how bad our line is and how we need to draft linemen to protect Luck. NFL network has discussed this in detail.

Unless I'm watching the wrong games in LOS I've watched Luck get killed out there. I will say it has improved but it was brutal early on.

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Don't post much but have to call this report nonsense. Comparing Luck's time to Brady's is like comparing apples to oranges.Brady's offense is a short quick offense that is designed to hit quick. What's amazing he has more than one open receiver in those two seconds and he has a clear throwing lane.

Luck's pocket is pushed back 5 to 6 yaeds almost immediately and he has no throwing lanes and no open receivers.No question Luck is making bad decisions but to say his OL is performing well is laughable.Every draft report goes into detail as to how bad our line is and how we need to draft linemen to protect Luck. NFL network has discussed this in detail.

Unless I'm watching the wrong games in LOS I've watched Luck get killed out there. I will say it has improved but it was brutal early on.

Luck has thrown first INT vs. Carolina after 6 seconds in the pocket. Luck has fumbled the ball vs. Carolina after 3.85 seconds in the pocket. Almost immediately? No way...

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It's the play calling. Tom Brady gets the ball out at 2.13 seconds because his Offense is designed to throw short quick slants and screens 80% of the time. For some reason Pep could never grasp this and just expected Andrew to make deep throws more than anything. Hopefully Chud changes the scheme.  Another thing too that is noticeable is Andrew isn't running out of the pocket as much this season as he has in the previous 3. He's standing more in the pocket a lot. He needs to start running more and just slide if a big hit is coming. He is more than capable of running.

In some respects, clearly not all, he is more like Drew Bledsoe was except he couldn't even run so he was a statue waiting. to get sacked.

A lot of people think Brady got the job just because of Drew injury but that's not 100% accurate. He was coming in sooner than later because Drew could not hit the short ones- he just threw them too hard and they'd bounce off the WR.  Luck isn't as hard but can he throw that type of passing? We shall see...............

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In some respects, clearly not all, he is more like Drew Bledsoe was except he couldn't even run so he was a statue waiting. to get sacked.

A lot of people think Brady got the job just because of Drew injury but that's not 100% accurate. He was coming in sooner than later because Drew could not hit the short ones- he just threw them too hard and they'd bounce off the WR.  Luck isn't as hard but can he throw that type of passing? We shall see...............

 

Very good point, and it will be interesting to see with Luck. We need to get both the running game and the short passes to work if we want to compete in bad whether in the play offs. We need to copy the Pats as much as it hurts to say it.

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Very good point, and it will be interesting to see with Luck. We need to get both the running game and the short passes to work if we want to compete in bad whether in the play offs. We need to copy the Pats as much as it hurts to say it.

Can need to stop with wanting to copy the Pats at every turn? Unless you have the same exact players and coaching it's not going to happen.

And the Bledsoe analogy is off base anyway. Bledsoe some had to hit short passes because that's the type of offense Fatso was running. Luck, under Arians and Pep, takes more 5-7 step drops than anyone in the league.

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I didn't read the whole article but I will say this: The oline has been bad, was bad but they have played better the last 4 weeks. The criticism was justified. We all know that Luck is struggling and he's now taking his share of the blame. Bottom line, he needs to play better and the oline needs to keep getting better.

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Since they have gone to the "new" line the play has vastly improved. The two major problems for the offense have been penalties and turnovers. They did a much better job with the penalties part Minday night, however the turnovers are still killing them.

As for Luck, he looks lost out there and frankly he's faced some nasty defenses this year and missed two of the games where he had a chance to regain some confidence. With that said he looked as lost as he has all year against the Saints who might be the worst defense in the league. I think he's thinking way too much out there which is causing the problems. At the end of the games when he has to take shots and just plays he reverts back to the Andrew we know and love. They need to figure out why he's thinking so much out there and help him think less and get him back to just playing, if they do that Luck will be fine. Hopefully the defenses not being as strong after the Broncos game will help.

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He also has been playing with fractured ribs. That can't be a factor, right?

 

holding the ball, being inaccurate, taking unnecessary sacks and chances, not reading the defense and taking what they give you, those have nothing to do with fractured ribs

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I didn't read the whole article but I will say this: The oline has been bad, was bad but they have played better the last 4 weeks. The criticism was justified. We all know that Luck is struggling and he's now taking his share of the blame. Bottom line, he needs to play better and the oline needs to keep getting better.

Agreed. Shoulders and ribs don't injure themselves after all. Average still isn't good. If the line can't play any better, then that means we have to get better players, which I expect to happen in 2016.

Luck having to release the ball sooner is a given though.

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The media is crazy, and people are slobbering all over them. I like them downgrading 12 after throwing him in elite status.

Personally I know he will improve and learn from this downfall. And watchful the media jump right back on.

What are you saying? The big bad media has an agenda for the Colts and Andrew? Why?

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So those two plays proves the point that the OL is not the problem?

Ok, Luck has thrown 2nd INT still staying in clean pocket... and it were 5 seconds from the beginning of the play. And he choose to force the football to Fleener staying in the pocket for 4 seconds... and the pocket was still there (3rd INT). Stop stare at Luck when he stares his WR. Take a look at timer.

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In some respects, clearly not all, he is more like Drew Bledsoe was except he couldn't even run so he was a statue waiting. to get sacked.

A lot of people think Brady got the job just because of Drew injury but that's not 100% accurate. He was coming in sooner than later because Drew could not hit the short ones- he just threw them too hard and they'd bounce off the WR.  Luck isn't as hard but can he throw that type of passing? We shall see...............

I think Luck is better than Bledsoe because of his running ability and scrambling ability but I get your point being can Luck adapt to the style Brady can play. I don't see why he cant with TY, Moncrief, and Dorsett + Fleener is no slouch. We have the weapons I think to adapt but haven't utilized them yet to the fullest. Over Luck's career it seems like only Reggie and TY has been the only 2 guys he's really trusted. Bradshaw has been his best safety valve but never can stay healthy. The Colts Offense looked unstoppable when Bradshaw was healthy. Luck reminds me of Big Ben more than anyone, Big Ben has had a couple of bad seasons too and has been injured off and on in his career.

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When I say Luck reminds me of Big Ben, = both are big and strong, can throw the deep ball well, take punishment, can scramble and run and throw on the run really well, both have had suspects lines over their career's, both usually find ways to win too. Ben has 2 SB wins so it's not a bad thing for me to compare Luck to Ben (on the field of course haha). Main difference is Ben has had some outstanding Defenses in his career and it has helped win the big one, Luck has yet to have a Great Defense. Give Luck a Great Defense and I bet he could win a SB or 2.

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Are you saying WATT is playing the best of his career, or simply about what you'd expect.  I say he's playing an average WATT season, far from the crazy year with the INT's. Pick 6, Offensive TD's etc. of his top year.  So, yes, I say he is playing average.  Nothing out of the ordinary for JJ WATT.  As for the rest of your comment, you are making a mistake to pay a non skilled player position the same as a skilled player, preferably a QB who can WIN games in spite of the players around them.   So let's see how these long term big money deals work out for their teams records and compare WIN results later.  As I said before, they are a luxury contract, not a winning football move. 

So JJ Watt has to play the best of his career each year or he's just playing average?

 

The rest of your post is based on something that is just not true.... QBs cannot win (or WIN if you prefer) games in spite of the players around them.

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So JJ Watt has to play the best of his career each year or he's just playing average?

 

The rest of your post is based on something that is just not true.... QBs cannot win (or WIN if you prefer) games in spite of the players around them.

Brady has been winning games with less talent than the average team, especially in 2013 when he had bad rookie FA's at WR and Gronk was hurt part of the season and he still whooped us.  He DOES have coaching, but not really the players to match the success he's had.  And Luck DEFINITELY won in spite of the players around him his rookie year.  Few in the league, media or fans disagreed when it was happening.  But we disagree and you keep rehashing it.  We'll see how well that investment in Watt pays off for Houston.  So far, not so good.  

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Lol you almost never agree with one of the most informed football posters on this board? That's not good.

I am sure that Coffeedrinker must sleep much better knowing he has you at the top of his Fanboy list.  Congrats to you both! 

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When I say Luck reminds me of Big Ben, = both are big and strong, can throw the deep ball well, take punishment, can scramble and run and throw on the run really well, both have had suspects lines over their career's, both usually find ways to win too. Ben has 2 SB wins so it's not a bad thing for me to compare Luck to Ben (on the field of course haha). Main difference is Ben has had some outstanding Defenses in his career and it has helped win the big one, Luck has yet to have a Great Defense. Give Luck a Great Defense and I bet he could win a SB or 2.

Ben did have some outstanding defences but everyone forgets the trash he had at oline during those times he had those great defenses. If you think Luck's oline was ever as bad as his you need to rewatch Pitt from 05 to 08. Plus Arians playcalling made them look worse.

The best thing to ever happen to Ben was Haley. He now can throw from the pocket and the organization has invested in his oline while also having a good defense.

My point is you can't have those outstanding defenses without sacrifices on the other side of the ball and Luck right now has a perfect balance of a team.

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holding the ball, being inaccurate, taking unnecessary sacks and chances, not reading the defense and taking what they give you, those have nothing to do with fractured ribs

 

He was like that the past 3 years but still found ways to win. AKA: Kansas City Playoff game. However, this year he has busted ribs and looks very noticeably terrible.

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He was like that the past 3 years but still found ways to win. AKA: Kansas City Playoff game. However, this year he has busted ribs and looks very noticeably terrible.

 

his rookie year and you can say his second year too, but that was mostly because of the lack of weapons. third year luck you saw him get away from those things though

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Brady has been winning games with less talent than the average team, especially in 2013 when he had bad rookie FA's at WR and Gronk was hurt part of the season and he still whooped us.  He DOES have coaching, but not really the players to match the success he's had.  And Luck DEFINITELY won in spite of the players around him his rookie year.  Few in the league, media or fans disagreed when it was happening.  But we disagree and you keep rehashing it.  We'll see how well that investment in Watt pays off for Houston.  So far, not so good.  

If you say so.  You're wrong about the Patriots talent level BTW but it doesn't really matter.  Patriots just about always have talented players that fit what they do very well.  Just because the average fan does not think they are talented does not make it so.  And then the coaching helps to get the best out of those players...

 

But I'm sure the only reason they have won is because of Brady.

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This OL is going to get Andrew seriously hurt if it can't protect him better. He got rid of the ball quickly on most all plays he threw on and still got hit 11 times, sometimes being sandwiched by two guys. There are only a couple of QBs in the NFL that can sustain that type of punishment but eventually they going to get hurt (Andrew already has this year at least once). NFL.com can use all the stats they want but the proof is on the field. Anyone that thinks Andrew is well protect don't know what they are talking about.

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If you say so.  You're wrong about the Patriots talent level BTW but it doesn't really matter.  Patriots just about always have talented players that fit what they do very well.  Just because the average fan does not think they are talented does not make it so.  And then the coaching helps to get the best out of those players...

 

But I'm sure the only reason they have won is because of Brady.

It's funny how many people will acknowledge that football is the ultimate team sport, but when it comes to analyzing the success or failure of a program, that notion is thrown out the door and people want to isolate success or failure to singular issues.

 

I think you are right.  The Patriots offense works because (i) they have a great QB, (ii) a solid line, (iii) solid RBs, (iv) very good TEs', (v) good WRs and (vi) very good coaching.  It works because all of these elements work well together.

 

Out in SF, everyone wants to blame Kaep for the 49ers woes, but and certainly some significant responsibility sits on his shoulders, but Vernon Davis has been a dog for most of the past 2 years, the line couldn't consistently maintain their blocks, the play calling has been suspect, and so on.  Bad offenses are usually bad because of a team effort at sucking, not because one person is falling short.

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This OL is going to get Andrew seriously hurt if it can't protect him better. He got rid of the ball quickly on most all plays he threw on and still got hit 11 times, sometimes being sandwiched by two guys. There are only a couple of QBs in the NFL that can sustain that type of punishment but eventually they going to get hurt (Andrew already has this year at least once). NFL.com can use all the stats they want but the proof is on the field. Anyone that thinks Andrew is well protect don't know what they are talking about.

 

The Broncos blitzed like crazy, all game long. I didn't see blown protections, I saw well designed blitzes. 

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