Colts reportedly interested in Bears OC Adam Gase as HC candidate.

[throwing BBZ]

bla bla bla

So Irsay -Grigson already have these guys at the top of their list? And Andrew had several broken ribs. nonsense!

 It makes since that we will look at several options from the typical list of potential candidates.
 Chuck will be a FA i believe, and it is possible he comes back.
 And it makes since several members of his staff will be changed.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

As an offensive coordinator, sure why not. As a head coach, ehh... I'd prefer an experienced, long tenured, proven head coach that has the knowledge to help thos team progress.

 

I think that's what we'd all prefer. Unfortunately, those guys are currently employed, either by an NFL team in the midst of a playoff berth, or by a television network, i.e. not available for the Colts to hire.

[Superman]

Why not?  I don't know much about Gase, so I can't comment on how qualified he'd be as a head coach, but isn't Jay Cutler having a somewhat decent year under him?

 

I don't dislike him. I just don't think he has enough of his own portfolio. It was Mike McCoy that handled the Orton to Tebow to Manning transition. Gase took over in 2013 and the Broncos broke all kinds of records, but by that time it had become the Manning offense. Hard to give Gase credit for that. 

 

What really sticks out to me is the terrible gameplan against the Colts in the playoffs last year. They didn't attack any of our defensive weaknesses, and while that's definitely due in part to Manning being less than 100% and of course Manning processing defenses in his own way, Gase's gameplan should have had that offense prepared to strike across the middle all game long. Instead, they kept trying to throw to the outside, where Vontae was again having an incredible game. Bad work.

 

The most fair judgment would be what he does this year with the Bears. They've had a bunch of injuries, and now they have more. I'd still rather see more than just one year of him away from Manning.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I call nonesense.

 

It would be suicide for the team in its current state , if Irsay/Grigson was already talking to people about replacing Pagano. The only thing that is holding the team spirit together is that the players still like Pagano a lot and wants to try hard for him. If Irsay was already now implying that he wants somebody else, the team spirit would collapse totally.

 

And besides that, Irsay would want a proven HC next. No more chances on a up-and-maybe-coming OC/DC.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Oh, and I consider the "rumor" to be a hostile poke at the organization.

[BleedBlu8792]

yea because cutler looks like an all-pro in his system

I rather have josh mcdaniels and I know I know. coaches under BB suck, but his system has made QBs like kyle orton and even tim tebow look good. imagine what he could do with luck and yes part of me just wants to stick it to the pats

No, not an all-pro, but he's been hit less and has been much more decisive/confident with the ball than in the prior years under Trestman. He's also not making the mistakes he used to either. I'm not advocating for Gase but it's clear many of you are looking at Cutlers stat sheet instead of watching the game. Gase has helped Cutler tremendously this year, and that team is extremely deficient of talent yet they have been in every game this year that Cutler has played.

[Superman]

Same. Wouldn't be a fan of Gase at all. We need a QB friendly coach like Mike Shannahan who has also won two SBs. Maybe Gruden.

Can't afford to waste Luck with an unproven HC.

 

Not interested in Shanahan; you think Grigson meddles with coaching too much, Shanahan wants to run the whole front office, and he's not good at it. Not interested in Gruden; overrated.

 

We're going to have to find the next guy. Not try to recreate the glory years of a retread coach from more than a decade ago. 

 

All those guys were unproven, before they were proven. John Harbaugh was a STs coach. Sean Payton was a journeyman position coach and OC. We all know Belichick's story. 

[Defjamz26]

Not interested in Shanahan; you think Grigson meddles with coaching too much, Shanahan wants to run the whole front office, and he's not good at it. Not interested in Gruden; overrated.

We're going to have to find the next guy. Not try to recreate the glory years of a retread coach from more than a decade ago.

All those guys were unproven, before they were proven. John Harbaugh was a STs coach. Sean Payton was a journeyman position coach and OC. We all know Belichick's story.

Luck isn't going to be young forever. You don't need a coach to come into his own and learn as he goes along. You need a guy that with patience, can win you a championship in 5 years or so.

If Shannahan wants FO power let him have it. Worked well for the Broncos. But in Washington he got strapped with terrible QBs and a terrible GM who traded the house for RGIII.

I also think you're undervaluing Gruden. If a guy who went to an AFC championship with a mediocre QB and won a Super Bowl with another one is overrated then sign me up.

I get everyone has to start somewhere but this team doesn't need a startup coach.

[chad72]

Just because he worked for Mike Martz doesn't mean he has the same shortcomings. 

 

I saw a lot of the same issues when he was with the Broncos like not staying patient with the run when he falls behind (the same complaint we had with Pep, magnified by SB vs Seahawks). Mike McCoy established the run better than Adam Gase with the same Peyton led offense. Adam Gase does like to spread it out when he has the weapons, no doubt about that. 

 

If you also look at Forte, Trestman utilized him better than Adam Gase, for the few games we can compare (since Forte has been hurt for a while now).

[chad72]

Luck isn't going to be young forever. You don't need a coach to come into his own and learn as he goes along. You need a guy that with patience, can win you a championship in 5 years or so.

If Shannahan wants FO power let him have it. Worked well for the Broncos. But in Washington he got strapped with terrible QBs and a terrible GM who traded the house for RGIII.

I also think you're undervaluing Gruden. If a guy who went to an AFC championship with a mediocre QB and won a Super Bowl with another one is overrated then sign me up.

I get everyone has to start somewhere but this team doesn't need a startup coach.

 

Bill Parcells wanted to shop for the groceries, so why should Mike Shanahan not? He did draft Cutler and he did draft Brandon Marshall, the both of whom McDaniels ran out of town.

[chad72]

Not interested in Shanahan; you think Grigson meddles with coaching too much, Shanahan wants to run the whole front office, and he's not good at it. Not interested in Gruden; overrated.

 

We're going to have to find the next guy. Not try to recreate the glory years of a retread coach from more than a decade ago. 

 

All those guys were unproven, before they were proven. John Harbaugh was a STs coach. Sean Payton was a journeyman position coach and OC. We all know Belichick's story. 

 

Mike Shanahan's drafts have not been nearly as bad, here, take a look:

 

2006 draft - Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, Chris Kuper

 

2007 draft - Only had 4 picks, Ryan Harris was the only good one that lasted

 

2008 draft - Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Peyton Hillis were notable

[Superman]

Luck isn't going to be young forever. You don't need a coach to come into his own and learn as he goes along. You need a guy that with patience, can win you a championship in 5 years or so.

If Shannahan wants FO power let him have it. Worked well for the Broncos. But in Washington he got strapped with terrible QBs and a terrible GM who traded the house for RGIII.

I also think you're undervaluing Gruden. If a guy who went to an AFC championship with a mediocre QB and won a Super Bowl with another one is overrated then sign me up.

I get everyone has to start somewhere but this team doesn't need a startup coach.

 

If you want to be patient with a guy, then keep Pagano. We already put up with his learning curve. I think we're prematurely running him out of town, to be honest. The defense has no pass rushers, and the offense was handcuffed with Pep Hamilton. If this Chud offense gets going, I'd be in favor of holding on to Chuck.

 

Shanahan running Denver's FO had mixed results. And after Davis and Elway left, the Broncos didn't win a single playoff game. Shanahan had final say in football matters with Washington, and was fully onboard with the Griffin trade. Then he ran him into the ground.

 

Gruden allowed the Bucs to slowly deteriorate under his watch. After the SB, he had a losing record. Rich Gannon hit his absolute peak for about four years, and was even better after Gruden left. He wasn't mediocre when the Raiders were having success, he was actually one of the best QBs in the league. Let's not act like Gruden dragged a bum QB to playoff success. I give him credit for the success he had, but we have 7 years of mediocrity after that success. 

 

If the idea is that you want a proven and successful head coach, then we can do better than trying to reinvent '98 and '02. 

[Superman]

I saw a lot of the same issues when he was with the Broncos like not staying patient with the run when he falls behind (the same complaint we had with Pep, magnified by SB vs Seahawks). Mike McCoy established the run better than Adam Gase with the same Peyton led offense. Adam Gase does like to spread it out when he has the weapons, no doubt about that. 

 

If you also look at Forte, Trestman utilized him better than Adam Gase, for the few games we can compare (since Forte has been hurt for a while now).

 

Matt Forte had 29 touches in the opener, 166 yards. Was on his way to similar usage in the second game.

[CanuckColt]

What crap.

That would keep us in the business of having rookie coaches learning on the job and wasting a few more years.

We need a strong experienced Head Coach...one who won't stand for ANY interference from Grigson...and that's what Grigson is probably afraid of...he wants a HC who he can dominate.

[Superman]

Mike Shanahan's drafts have not been nearly as bad, here, take a look:

 

2006 draft - Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, Chris Kuper

 

2007 draft - Only had 4 picks, Ryan Harris was the only good one that lasted

 

2008 draft - Ryan Clady, Eddie Royal, Peyton Hillis were notable

 

Should we look at those 2010-2013 Washington drafts?

[Defjamz26]

If you want to be patient with a guy, then keep Pagano. We already put up with his learning curve. I think we're prematurely running him out of town, to be honest. The defense has no pass rushers, and the offense was handcuffed with Pep Hamilton. If this Chud offense gets going, I'd be in favor of holding on to Chuck.

Shanahan running Denver's FO had mixed results. And after Davis and Elway left, the Broncos didn't win a single playoff game. Shanahan had final say in football matters with Washington, and was fully onboard with the Griffin trade. Then he ran him into the ground.

Gruden allowed the Bucs to slowly deteriorate under his watch. After the SB, he had a losing record. Rich Gannon hit his absolute peak for about four years, and was even better after Gruden left. He wasn't mediocre when the Raiders were having success, he was actually one of the best QBs in the league. Let's not act like Gruden dragged a bum QB to playoff success. I give him credit for the success he had, but we have 7 years of mediocrity after that success.

If the idea is that you want a proven and successful head coach, then we can do better than trying to reinvent '98 and '02.

I don't agree that Shannahan was in on the RGIII trade. He had no qualms about benching him. I've heard it was Snyder who made the ultimate decision. I think it was one time he came in an overrided Shannahan. This is the same Shannahan who in an article from 2 months ago said that he thinks Luck can be the GOAT and absolutely raved about him. You're telling me he was on board with drafting RGIII? Especially when they drafted Cousins the same draft? I don't buy it. But he also drafted a HOF player in the 7th, and a soon to be HOF guy in the 6th.

And you really should look into how bad the cap situation was in Tampa Bay. A lot of big contracts coupled with expiring contracts. The GM was terrible. Then when he finally got the GM he wanted, the Bucs showed marked improvement. There's a lot more to the story if you look it up, but Gruden was basically the fall guy for a crippling organization. Dungy escaped in the nick of time and went to a team with the best QB in the NFL and the rest is history.

[chad72]

If Mike Shanahan is not in charge of cap decisions and has a say in just the players drafted, it may not be a bad choice, IMO.

[dgambill]

I get it, but I'm not a fan.

I wouldn't be a fan either....a lot of veterens on this team and a team with SB asperations and bring in a rookie head coach....sorry..not buying it even 1%. Also I don't think Grigson will be here to select the next head coach. HC/GM usually come together. What HC is going to come in and work for a GM on the hot seat. I don't think Grigson has that kinda relationship in Indy to select another HC. I imagine we get a new GM and they would select a new HC and staff.

[Superman]

I don't agree that Shannahan was in on the RGIII trade. He had no qualms about benching him. I've heard it was Snyder who made the ultimate decision. I think it was one time he came in an overrided Shannahan. This is the same Shannahan who in an article from 2 months ago said that he thinks Luck can be the GOAT and absolutely raved about him. You're telling me he was on board with drafting RGIII? Especially when they drafted Cousins the same draft? I don't buy it. But he also drafted a HOF player in the 7th, and a soon to be HOF guy in the 6th.

And you really should look into how bad the cap situation was in Tampa Bay. A lot of big contracts coupled with expiring contracts. The GM was terrible. Then when he finally got the GM he wanted, the Bucs showed marked improvement. There's a lot more to the story if you look it up, but Gruden was basically the fall guy for a crippling organization. Dungy escaped in the nick of time and went to a team with the best QB in the NFL and the rest is history.

 

Shanahan's own words: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/18/shanahan-i-wanted-peyton-settled-for-rg3-trade/

 

“I said, ‘Hey, yeah, I would take the chance. But I want you to know that he’s really going to have to commit to what we’re doing.'”

 

Let's not try to remove Shanahan from this decision. He was on board up until Griffin started giving him trouble. Then Snyder started undermining him by siding with Griffin, but Shanahan was the final say on football decisions up until then. He could have said no to the Griffin trade.

 

Either way, doesn't change the fact that Shanahan hasn't won a playoff game since 1998. I'm really not interested in retreading a guy because he won a couple SBs 17 years ago. He drafted TD 20 years ago; he didn't draft Sharpe, and even if he had, that was 25 years ago.

 

Gruden wasn't the fall guy. He lost the team, and they had a losing record over seven seasons after the SB. And the team he took over was already knocking on the door.

 

To be clear, I don't think either of these guys are bad coaches. I just don't think they're worthy of consideration. I think we could definitely do better, even if we're looking for a retread. Pry Payton away from St. Louis, go after Saban, make Harbaugh a King of the Castle offer, Urban Meyer, Gary Patterson, etc., etc. Guys who have had success in the last ten years, for instance. Can't go digging up relics and trying to recreate decades-old success. 

[grmasterb]

I wouldn't trust Grigson to pick a head coach

I think there's a decent chance Grigson won't be around to select the next HC.

[ThatOneColtFan]

Luck becoming Cutler would be full circle

[Bubbz]

 

 

If the idea is that you want a proven and successful head coach, then we can do better than trying to reinvent '98 and '02. 

who?

 

edit: nvm i just saw this

 

 

Shanahan's own words: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/18/shanahan-i-wanted-peyton-settled-for-rg3-trade/

 

“I said, ‘Hey, yeah, I would take the chance. But I want you to know that he’s really going to have to commit to what we’re doing.'”

 

Let's not try to remove Shanahan from this decision. He was on board up until Griffin started giving him trouble. Then Snyder started undermining him by siding with Griffin, but Shanahan was the final say on football decisions up until then. He could have said no to the Griffin trade.

 

Either way, doesn't change the fact that Shanahan hasn't won a playoff game since 1998. I'm really not interested in retreading a guy because he won a couple SBs 17 years ago. He drafted TD 20 years ago; he didn't draft Sharpe, and even if he had, that was 25 years ago.

 

Gruden wasn't the fall guy. He lost the team, and they had a losing record over seven seasons after the SB. And the team he took over was already knocking on the door.

 

To be clear, I don't think either of these guys are bad coaches. I just don't think they're worthy of consideration. I think we could definitely do better, even if we're looking for a retread. Pry Payton away from St. Louis, go after Saban, make Harbaugh a King of the Castle offer, Urban Meyer, Gary Patterson, etc., etc. Guys who have had success in the last ten years, for instance. Can't go digging up relics and trying to recreate decades-old success. 

 

there havent been many recent successes of college HCs jumping to the nfl

[Superman]

who?

 

edit: nvm i just saw this

 

 

 

there havent been many recent successes of college HCs jumping to the nfl

 

Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh beg to differ.

[Defjamz26]

Shanahan's own words: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/18/shanahan-i-wanted-peyton-settled-for-rg3-trade/

“I said, ‘Hey, yeah, I would take the chance. But I want you to know that he’s really going to have to commit to what we’re doing.'”

Let's not try to remove Shanahan from this decision. He was on board up until Griffin started giving him trouble. Then Snyder started undermining him by siding with Griffin, but Shanahan was the final say on football decisions up until then. He could have said no to the Griffin trade.

Either way, doesn't change the fact that Shanahan hasn't won a playoff game since 1998. I'm really not interested in retreading a guy because he won a couple SBs 17 years ago. He drafted TD 20 years ago; he didn't draft Sharpe, and even if he had, that was 25 years ago.

Gruden wasn't the fall guy. He lost the team, and they had a losing record over seven seasons after the SB. And the team he took over was already knocking on the door.

To be clear, I don't think either of these guys are bad coaches. I just don't think they're worthy of consideration. I think we could definitely do better, even if we're looking for a retread. Pry Payton away from St. Louis, go after Saban, make Harbaugh a King of the Castle offer, Urban Meyer, Gary Patterson, etc., etc. Guys who have had success in the last ten years, for instance. Can't go digging up relics and trying to recreate decades-old success.

It wouldn't be trying to re-create old success. It would be giving guys with proven track records as coaches a fresh start. This doesn't have to be the 98 Broncos or '01 Bucs.

I think they are both coaches who could help Luck immensely and bring needed discipline and experience to the Colts team.

[BProland85]

Don't want Gase. Peyton basically made him look good. I would like a guy that is a proven HC. Someone like Sean Payton, or a great college coach.

[Coltsfan1284]

I would love if we went after Bill Cowher as my number one choice.  Mike Shannahan would be a good fit.  First and most important if somehow Grigson makes it through the house cleaning we need a coach to tell him to back the * off or make Irsay drastically cut his role.  

[Bubbz]

Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh beg to differ.

Carol wasnt succesful his first stint in the NFL, and Harbaugh is no longer in the NFL.

[Bubbz]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2015/11/04/doyel-andrew-luck-reason-pep-hamilton-fired/75185696/

[Jason_]

Carol wasnt succesful his first stint in the NFL, and Harbaugh is no longer in the NFL.

Bill Belichick wasn't successful his first stint either.

[southwest1]

To assume Arians would have two super bowls with this team is a stretch of the imagination. Matter of fact he has just as good a team if not better where he is at and no super bowls. So you honestly think the Arians would have coached this team to two wins over the Patriots? Sorry, I just don't see it. I do agree with you about the firing of Pep and it's impact on this season. Only time will tell. IMO if the Colts do start clicking and do make the playoffs Pagano will be extended. I, just like everyone else can only voice my opinion but it is ultimately up to Irsay.

I agree 100% with half of your statement CC1. It is way too far fetched on JPF's part to think that INDY would have SB hardware under Arian's guidance. But, like BOTT said, Chuck Pagano is gone. There's no way he's gonna be on the sidelines next year or be extended. Chuck knows it, Jim knows it, & the entire Colts fan base knows it.  

[Bubbz]

Bill Belichick wasn't successful his first stint either.

right, hiring first time NFL coaches is risky, with not much proven track record of paying off

[cranium cramp]

I say wait the season out. There are many, too many issues to play themselves out. I'm interested to see how the offense looks under Chud. I don't mean this Sunday. That is to soon and unfair to Chud. We have to give him till to instill a few of his own plays. However we all should pay close attention to his situational play calling.

[crazycolt1]

I agree 100% with half of your statement CC1. It is way too far fetched on JPF's part to think that INDY would have SB hardware under Arian's guidance. But, like BOTT said, Chuck Pagano is gone. There's no way he's gonna be on the sidelines next year or be extended. Chuck knows it, Jim knows it, & the entire Colts fan base knows it.  

You might be right, who knows. Only Irsay knows for sure and he may not be sure.

[southwest1]

You might be right, who knows. Only Irsay knows for sure and he may not be sure.

Out of respect for you CC1 & what Tom Coughlin & Eli Manning did in 2007, I will concede that if Chud, Chuck, & Chewbacca get hot at the right time going on a deep winning streak...Our HC has a 10-12% chance of remaining intact, by the door is only slightly ajar right now. 

 

Yep, Jimmy's got the last call on Pagano's final Hoosier State Fate my friend. 

[bradgt04]

Meh....

Let's see what happens sans Pep and then the HC position can be considered.

I like the idea of Pags telling Grigs, "we need OLB/Pass rush, a guard, and a tackle. Here's my short list of candidates who fit our scheme, just to help you out a little in your dealings."

Oh buddy that would ruffle grigson a feathers (sarcasm). "How dare you come up to me with a piece of paper saying this is who you want! I pick the players and everything!". Sorry. My knee is a little jerky the past couple days.

[Jason_]

right, hiring first time NFL coaches is risky, with not much proven track record of paying off

 

But Harbaugh was very successful his first stint.  Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton are 2 others that immediately come to mind who were successful in their first HC stints.  And hiring retread coaches is just as risky. 

[Superman]

But Harbaugh was very successful his first stint.  Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton are 2 others that immediately come to mind who were successful in their first HC stints.  And hiring retread coaches is just as risky. 

 

McCarthy had his growing pains. That's why I hesitate to blow out a coach too quickly.

[Superman]

Carol wasnt succesful his first stint in the NFL, and Harbaugh is no longer in the NFL.

 

Harbaugh not being in the NFL is immaterial. He did a good job when he was.

 

And Carroll wasn't a college coach coming into the NFL when he had his first two NFL HC gigs. So his lack of success previously is also immaterial. As a college coach coming to the NFL, he's done well.

[Superman]

It wouldn't be trying to re-create old success. It would be giving guys with proven track records as coaches a fresh start. This doesn't have to be the 98 Broncos or '01 Bucs.

I think they are both coaches who could help Luck immensely and bring needed discipline and experience to the Colts team.

 

It's time to move on, IMO. Gruden and Shanahan can take their places beside Parcells and Cowher and Landry and Walsh and all the other guys from past years.

 

I'd rather have Josh McDaniels, and you know how I feel about Belichick assistants.

[NewColtsFan]

I've said it before, but I think it's worth repeating.....

 

If/when we fire Pagano,  it is far from a certainty that we hire someone who turns out to be better.

 

We might.     But it's not a slam dunk.

 

Hiring a very good coach is one of the hardest thing to do in all of sports -- not just football.

 

So,  we could let Pagano go and wind up with someone who turns out to be not as good.

 

Obviously I hope that doesn't happen.      I'm just saying be careful what you wish for,  you might just get it..............