UPDATE: Pep Hamilton is fired

[Semicolt]

As for Dungy unhappy with the Pep firing and that he will be a coach in the NFL. Maybe so but Dungy supported Caldwell as being the head coach for both the Colts and Lions and look at what track record he has. 

 

The Colts had to do something , the offense has been totally unprepared since the first game of the season and always gets off to a slow start putting extra pressure on the defense !

[Shane Bond]

Why? What immediate fix does this do?

 

IMHO this was the BEST and ONLY option for a mid seaosn firing. The playbook wont change, just the play calls and  that IMHO was our biggest flaw for the last 2 seasons.

Morale. Didn't he has a rift with Pagano which in turn affects the whole team.

[The Lucky Neck Beard]

Pep wasn't the problem he's being used as the scapegoat. Luck threw 40 TDs last year he's just regressed this year. Its not Pep fault that Luck is overthrowing Wr's and not targeting his TEs. Were 3-5 because of Luck's poor play not Pep playcalling.

i disagree.  I feel like the offensive game plan changed this year. to me it looked like the game plan was to bomb it down field with fast receivers and use that to open up the run game...  way to many plays where the receivers never turned around till 4-5 seconds out...  you have a hurt uncomfortable QB, you modify the gameplan to get him comfortable again...  not take away saftey valves on most plays and make him seek them out on others...  I expect more dink dunk plays, planned QB runs, and play-action plays with Chud at the helm.

 

The onus of good decision making by the QB CAN be placed on the OC.  You shouldnt expect your QB to make all of the decisions on the field, your scheme should dictate who should get open...  its why you have progressions you start with one and go through your reads. it starts with who should be open. 

 

Imagine if our QB was comfortable in the first quarter and played like it was the 4th quarter.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Aren't they probably going to continue to run the same offense?  They really can't change the system in a short amount of time.  I wouldn't expect much of a change vs Denver, especially if Luck is injured which it seems everyone on the flipping radio thinks he is.  Big Joe, Rodney Harrison, Dakich, blah blah blah.  

 

Can someone enlighten me on what they think Chud will do vs what Pep did/didn't do?  Obviously if Luck continues to play like crap, and the WRs can't get separation, the OL continues to get penalties and play maybe 1-2 solid quarters per game one would think we'd see the exact same issues.  

 

Well, nobody knows what Pep did, and what Chud will do.  i would like to say that having the same playbook / system doesn't limit changes in philosophy.   So many things go into it.  I do know some teams throw out part of the playbook week to week because those plays go right at the strength of the opposing team, so they implement and practice the plays that target the opponents weakness.  If your players are stronger/better, and you expect them to win their one on one matchups each play, then you run with your strength, even if your opponent is strong there as well. Game planning and scheming is part of this.  Play calling is adjusting to the flow of the game.

 

I have no idea which way we were preparing before, but Pep is on record saying our offense this year only looks good on paper.  I think he expected us to be better than our opponents and go into the teeth of their strengths and come out on top.  It isn't playing out that way.  Many D coordinators found the weak spot to our approach and have adapted their approach to attack that.  We seem to keep the 'Do what we do' approach, which is only successful when everyone is winning their battles.  They are not.  Receivers not getting open or separation (no zones to go sit in because blitz/man coverage works against us), and O linemen not doing their part (lots of holding ,pressures, sacks).  Because of this, Luck is handing the ball over like candy on Halloween night.  Tom Brady release time from snap this year?  2.13 seconds average.  Best n the NFL. Andrew Luck's release time?  2.68 seconds. Bottom 4. Over a half of a second longer.

 

Right now, no matter what we have done before, I feel we need to select the plays each week in the playbook that best targets the weakness of the opponent and at the same time accentuate the strengths of our offensive players abilities. Place them n a position to succeed. I want manageable 3rd downs, <5 yards, where the whole playbook is still in play- pass / run / play action pass.

 

I want trick plays only sparingly, and only attempted in the first half of the game, not in the second half where there's little chance to recover from an epic fail: like the famous "Faux Punt".  Let's truly get more balance in pass/run and also T.O.P.  These things can be done without re-doing the playbook, IMO.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Guys I'm serious, I would seriously consider Rob Chudzinski to be our next head coach. 

 

His record as OC is quite good, but like Norv Turner, Todd Haley, and Josh McDaniels before him, 'turrible, just turrible' at HC.  No thanks.

 

[OffensivelyPC]

That implies he did nothing wrong.

No it doesn't.  It just means that he's the one that's taking the blame for a collective problem.  In this case, or at least in my estimation, he's also the one that just so happens to have the largest share of the blame.  Of course, there's enough blame to go around.  But I think a lot of our problems improve as long as Chud himself is an improvement.

[RockThatBlue]

This whole "Pep is a scape goat" thing is stupid.

[JColts72]

This whole "Pep is a scape goat" thing is stupid.

Only the football political correct commentators think so. I'm so sick of PC world. I miss the old days of non-PC.

[NewColtsFan]

Actually, at the end of the year, Pagano's contract will have run out, so they wouldn't be able to fire him at that point. ;)  

 

DOH!!!              

 

(Lol)     That's pretty funny!    (Whoops!)

 

Well....  to modify it just a bit....   at the end of the year,  they can always announce an amicable parting of the ways.....

[NewEra]

Only the football political correct commentators think so. I'm so sick of PC world. I miss the old days of non-PC.

Exactly, sorry he was fired cause he wasn't cutting it. Truth hurts in this day and age

[Superman]

His record as OC is quite good, but like Norv Turner, Todd Haley, and Josh McDaniels before him, 'turrible, just turrible' at HC. No thanks.

He got one year in Cleveland, and they weren't THAT bad. Especially on offense. I'm not eager to make him the head coach again, but he got blown out of there a lot faster than anyone expected.

[throwing BBZ]

i disagree.  I feel like the offensive game plan changed this year. to me it looked like the game plan was to bomb it down field with fast receivers and use that to open up the run game...  way to many plays where the receivers never turned around till 4-5 seconds out...  you have a hurt uncomfortable QB, you modify the gameplan to get him comfortable again...  not take away saftey valves on most plays and make him seek them out on others...  I expect more dink dunk plays, planned QB runs, and play-action plays with Chud at the helm.

 

The onus of good decision making by the QB CAN be placed on the OC.  You shouldnt expect your QB to make all of the decisions on the field, your scheme should dictate who should get open...  its why you have progressions you start with one and go through your reads. it starts with who should be open. 

 

Imagine if our QB was comfortable in the first quarter and played like it was the 4th quarter.

 

 It is like you don`t watch the games. Andrew and progressions... uh... what`s that. 

 

 Andrew is playing as if he doesn`t like the idea of making $22M.  I like it.

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

This whole "Pep is a scape goat" thing is stupid.

Agree Pep stinks been calling for this for 2 years now, he actually regressed this year. With all the weapons he had he is TERRIBLY UNIMAGINATIVE IMO! He is not a skillful NFL play caller. Bring on Chud, its about time. If Paggono is going to go down, do it with your own guy! And shame on Griggson if he forced Pep on Chuck!!

[ColtsBlueFL]

He got one year in Cleveland, and they weren't THAT bad. Especially on offense. I'm not eager to make him the head coach again, but he got blown out of there a lot faster than anyone expected.

 

Everyone has their opinions.  But they were 4 - 12, last in the AFC North.  Their roster had players- McGahee, TRich (before he quit on us), Josh Gordon, Jordon Cameron, Alex Mack, Joe Thomas, T.J. Ward, Buster Skrine, D'Qwell Jackson, Paul Kruger, Joe Haden...

 

Granted, Hoyer, Weeden, J.Campbell weren't the triumvirates of QB domination, but they lost their last 7 games to end the year, and 10 of their last 11 were losses.  That's bad in my book.

 

Now only getting 1 year at HC?  That was bush league, IMO.  But I'm not sure their record would improve with him in 2014 or not.  I agree with you I'm not eager to make him a HC again at this time.

[colts8718]

May be he is the secret child

 Quiet don't let    that out

[colts8718]

This, to me, is only true if Grigson was dictating coaching staff and personnel to Pagano.

 

At this point, if any of that was true, it could seem like Irsay is, in a sense, giving Pagano the keys on the coaching side and stripping them from Grigson.  If it plays out, we could retain both through additional seasons.  If not, it would seem a front office refresh is in store.

 

When I look at what Grigson has done, you have to give him credit for his personnel:

 

1. Luck was of course a gimme, though the talking heads were clamoring for RG-ME and he stuck with Luck
2. Vontae Davis
3. TY Hilton
4. Donte Moncrief
5. Fleener
6. Allen
7. Mewhort
8. D Jackson
9. Freeman
10. Langford
11. Parry
12. Anderson
13. Mathis (he could have let him walk... he didn't)
14. Wayne (he brought him back, possibly at Pagano's insistence)
15. Gore

 

Sure, he has had some misses, but he is a guy throwing darts at the board with guys that have solid talent levels.  Some don't pan out for the long haul (Cherilus/Landry).  Some are not as good as we would like (Toler).  But by and large he has brought in talent and not really cap struck this team to the point we can't try new talent.

 

If you take away any influence he has on the coaching and starters and such (if any of that is true), and leave that aspect to the coaches, he could be a good asset for years to come.  But if he is truly trying to retain power of all aspects, and continues to try to dictate that in the future, he needs to go.  The only time a GM should have full control over the coaching aspects is when he is the head coach himself, ala Bill Bellicheck.  Right now, noone we have is in that caliber, so Pagano's job should be reasonably safe if any of that was true.  Our offense is a shell of what it used to be, but our defense, which is Pagano's background, is middle tier if it wasn't for all those turnovers, and we'd be in good shape to be above middle tier if our offense was worth speaking of.

He has done a terrible job with the offensive line and its been 4 years and not getting better

[mvbighead]

He has done a terrible job with the offensive line and its been 4 years and not getting better

 

Terrible is a stretch.  They're definitely not world beaters, but when you have an OC that prefers to run plays with 7 step drops...

 

Looking at the line right now, they could be better, but they're not THAT bad.  On most of Luck's INTs, he was at ease in the pocket for a good 4-5 seconds without pressure.  It is simply a matter of no one getting open.

 

I am not going to say that Grigson did well on the offensive line.  His selection of Dorsett is widely viewed as one that should have been an offensive lineman.  I don't recall if there were any standout prospects available at our spot, but suffice it to say, we'll have no idea how good that pick is until years 2 or 3.  Thus far, he's been underwhelming, but he hasn't had enough time to really be evaluated.  From what I have seen, Mewhort has been a solid pickup and Thornton seems to be coming along.  Reitz is decent, but not a long term solution.  Holmes has been injured far too much.

 

Terrible?  No.  Below average?  Pretty much.

[Superman]

Everyone has their opinions.  But they were 4 - 12, last in the AFC North.  Their roster had players- McGahee, TRich (before he quit on us), Josh Gordon, Jordon Cameron, Alex Mack, Joe Thomas, T.J. Ward, Buster Skrine, D'Qwell Jackson, Paul Kruger, Joe Haden...

 

Granted, Hoyer, Weeden, J.Campbell weren't the triumvirates of QB domination, but they lost their last 7 games to end the year, and 10 of their last 11 were losses.  That's bad in my book.

 

Now only getting 1 year at HC?  That was bush league, IMO.  But I'm not sure their record would improve with him in 2014 or not.  I agree with you I'm not eager to make him a HC again at this time.

 

McGahee was 32. Richardson was traded after two games. Josh Gordon had a great season, as did Jordan Cameron. Mack and Thomas did what they do, Ward had a good year, Skrine wasn't that good back then, Jackson had a good year, Kruger was a bad signing (bounced back in 2014), Haden did what he does.

 

What about everyone else? You mention the QBs in passing, but really, that's a bad QBing group. Best of the bunch at the time was probably Hoyer, and they went 3-0 when he started, then he tore his ACL. They were 3-2 at that point. Weeden and Campbell led them to 1-10 the rest of the way.

 

To me, the deal was that Banner and Haslam hired Chud directly, then hired Lombardi a week after. Lombardi and Banner were both undermined immediately, and Haslam replaced the entire front office and coaching staff he had just hired. It was a complete housecleaning, and evidently Haslam didn't like the team that had been put together as he was taking over ownership. Totally Haslam's prerogative; but I don't think Chud was fired because he did a bad job in his one year. I think it was all about personalities and politics.

 

We agree, though, that he doesn't have this sterling record that demands he be considered as a head coach. I'd be fine with him interviewing and being considered; that would make sense. But I think there are better candidates. My hope is that he helps salvage this season.

[wesd2890]

Sit down, let me talk to you about the 2012 Baltimore Ravens.

One team in nfl history just furthers my idea of it never turning out good..

[Superman]

One team in nfl history just furthers my idea of it never turning out good..

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/never

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Also slightly unrelated note: Why did Pagano not fire Manusky? Still 29th ranked defense. Does that live up to standards for Pagano and co.?

If you watched any of the game Monday night you know why our defense is ranked as low as they are. . . When your on the field for 40 mins it's easy to give up tons of yds..... manusky to me has nothing to worry about. .. For once defense is the least of our problems

[Jason_]

His record as OC is quite good, but like Norv Turner, Todd Haley, and Josh McDaniels before him, 'turrible, just turrible' at HC.  No thanks.

 

 

 

You're basing that on the one year Chud had as a HC?

 

**edit...I see this has already been addressed.  I'm also not in any hurry to make Chud the next HC...in fact my hope is that the Colts begin to turn things around, and Pagano is signed long-term with Chud staying on as the OC until he gets another HC opportunity.  Still, I don't think proclaiming Chud as a bad HC in the same category as the others you mentioned simply because he was only given a one year opportunity with a very bad QB group.

[NewEra]

If you watched any of the game Monday night you know why our defense is ranked as low as they are. . . When your on the field for 40 mins it's easy to give up tons of yds..... manusky to me has nothing to worry about. .. For once defense is the least of our problems

Multiple 3 and outs, fumbles and picks. It's all on the offense

[Jason_]

Multiple 3 and outs, fumbles and picks. It's all on the offense

 

Hey now, it wasn't all on the offense...Special teams has helped as well.

 

lol

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Multiple 3 and outs, fumbles and picks. It's all on the offense

Agree totally! This defense isn't that bad, with all you said plus the cruddy field position because of the fumbles & Int's. Not much to say. I would prefer a little better pass rush but other than that, not bad!

[ColtsBlueFL]

McGahee was 32. Richardson was traded after two games. Josh Gordon had a great season, as did Jordan Cameron. Mack and Thomas did what they do, Ward had a good year, Skrine wasn't that good back then, Jackson had a good year, Kruger was a bad signing (bounced back in 2014), Haden did what he does.

 

What about everyone else? You mention the QBs in passing, but really, that's a bad QBing group. Best of the bunch at the time was probably Hoyer, and they went 3-0 when he started, then he tore his ACL. They were 3-2 at that point. Weeden and Campbell led them to 1-10 the rest of the way.

 

To me, the deal was that Banner and Haslam hired Chud directly, then hired Lombardi a week after. Lombardi and Banner were both undermined immediately, and Haslam replaced the entire front office and coaching staff he had just hired. It was a complete housecleaning, and evidently Haslam didn't like the team that had been put together as he was taking over ownership. Totally Haslam's prerogative; but I don't think Chud was fired because he did a bad job in his one year. I think it was all about personalities and politics.

 

We agree, though, that he doesn't have this sterling record that demands he be considered as a head coach. I'd be fine with him interviewing and being considered; that would make sense. But I think there are better candidates. My hope is that he helps salvage this season.

 

Hoyer was 2-0 (making Browns 2 - 2 at that point) and started his 3rd game.  But Kiko Alonso hit him on a QB slide in the firs quarter and he was out for the year (ACL).  Weeden played over 3/4 that game and won it, but Hoyer started the game so gets credit. But were picking nits.  We know what Hoyer, Weeden, and Jason Campbell were/are.  And we know the fail that organization seems to have been in recent years.

 

We agree 1 years was too short, but nothing from that year demand we look at him for HC.  We need to stop experiments and get a long term HC.  Steelers and Pats success have much to do with HC longevity / philosophy to go with the rest.  I so much want to avoid a turnstile of Head Coaches and coordinators flowing through the organization.

[ColtsBlueFL]

You're basing that on the one year Chud had as a HC?

 

**edit...I see this has already been addressed.  I'm also not in any hurry to make Chud the next HC...in fact my hope is that the Colts begin to turn things around, and Pagano is signed long-term with Chud staying on as the OC until he gets another HC opportunity.  Still, I don't think proclaiming Chud as a bad HC in the same category as the others you mentioned simply because he was only given a one year opportunity with a very bad QB group.

 

Fair enough.  But he was not good in his only year as HC.  He has no HC experience.  He presents no winning credentials as a head coach. And the Colts cannot afford to fail on a project / experiment head coach; which he would most certainly be.

 

There, I feel better now.  How about you?

[indyspeed13]

ive got this feeling this is the part where we score alot of touchdowns...

[Superman]

Fair enough.  But he was not good in his only year as HC.  He has no HC experience.  He presents no winning credentials as a head coach. And the Colts cannot afford to fail on a project / experiment head coach; which he would most certainly be.

 

There, I feel better now.  How about you?

 

He should have just turned the Browns down.

[ColtsBlueFL]

He should have just turned the Browns down.

 

I agree!  Chip Kelly talks broke down, and they also chatted with Bill O'Brien, Marc Trestman, Ken Whisenhunt and others.  Chudz bringing Norv Turner and Ray Horton in along with him won the job, but NFL (Thanks Jerry Glanville!).  He should have passed, but Browns were hoping for another Bruce Arians.

[Coffeedrinker]

Agree totally! This defense isn't that bad, with all you said plus the cruddy field position because of the fumbles & Int's. Not much to say. I would prefer a little better pass rush but other than that, not bad!

To support your point:  Colts D is 12th in the league in yards per drive at 30.98.  But they are 21st in points per drive and they are 29th in the league in average LOS/drive.

 

One area where the Colts need to improve is turn overs.

 

Source

[will426]

This is huge. This is my 30,000-ft summary re: the ineptitude of our offense:

Andrew Luck did not forget how to be a good QB overnight.

Even without seeing the all-22 tape, it is obvious that our receivers/tight ends are not getting enough separation.

When they're not getting separation, the route combinations are so poorly designed that our WRs are clustered together in areas where there are a plethora of CBs, Safeties, and LBs.

Luck is constantly faced with situations where he has to fit the ball into coverage. While elite QBs can sometimes hit those incredibly difficult throws, no elite QB can do so every time.

The offense becomes way too vertically oriented at times, but that's another discussion in and of itself.

Are the receivers the problem? Nope. The route concepts/combinations in this offense leave me absolutely baffled at times.

Certain "staple" routes are completely ignored. Pep will try 1 screen and if it doesn't work, he quits going to it.

There are virtually no designed roll-out passes for Luck. There aren't enough crossing routes (including shallow crosses), quick ins, quick outs, WR screens, RB screens.

Does anyone else notice how Ted Ginn Jr. (not an elite WR - at all; although he has good speed) was wide open on several occasions (thanks to single coverage)?

Greg Olsen was also left completely by himself on multiple occasions. And Newton was put in a position where he could hit those plays because the plays/routes were well designed.

This offense, as currently designed, gives Luck almost no "layups."

If the Colts can get a great offensive mind at the helm, I have no doubt that Luck will be able to turn his game around. This offense needs a major overhaul.

The only personnel problem, with respect to the offense, is that there aren't enough quality OL.

With the right coordinator, the Colts offense has plenty of weapons at the RB/WR/TE positions.

love this post because I've been yelling this about peps basic playcalling and route concepts

[jvan1973]

Fair enough. But he was not good in his only year as HC. He has no HC experience. He presents no winning credentials as a head coach. And the Colts cannot afford to fail on a project / experiment head coach; which he would most certainly be.

There, I feel better now. How about you?

What coach with an established successful head coaching record will be availible

[DougDew]

If you watched any of the game Monday night you know why our defense is ranked as low as they are. . . When your on the field for 40 mins it's easy to give up tons of yds..... manusky to me has nothing to worry about. .. For once defense is the least of our problems

Yes.  The Dline got fixed and transformed in one offseason.  The secondary is missing one good piece.  Lets hope the LB corps can get up to speed this spring.

[will426]

I think neither Grigson nor Pagano need to be fired one thing that needs to be changed tho is grigsons POWER. His power should not exceed that of his head coach he isn't in charge of finding the staff that'll work for Pagano..pagano should be finding his own staff that is what should be done. Pagano has been hands on with the defense now we have a solid defence excluding toler and pass rush lol. Grigson has drafted well this year and has helped us out of cap hell thats all he needs to be focused on. If everyone focuses on their OWN job we will do fine but until then we'll have this drama

[RockThatBlue]

Everyone has their opinions. But they were 4 - 12, last in the AFC North. Their roster had players- McGahee, TRich (before he quit on us), Josh Gordon, Jordon Cameron, Alex Mack, Joe Thomas, T.J. Ward, Buster Skrine, D'Qwell Jackson, Paul Kruger, Joe Haden...

Granted, Hoyer, Weeden, J.Campbell weren't the triumvirates of QB domination, but they lost their last 7 games to end the year, and 10 of their last 11 were losses. That's bad in my book.

Now only getting 1 year at HC? That was bush league, IMO. But I'm not sure their record would improve with him in 2014 or not. I agree with you I'm not eager to make him a HC again at this time.

Weeden was the starting QB for most of the year. Nobody would win many games with him at QB. Cleveland was also competitive in almost every game that year, they probably would have had a winning record if Weeden wasn't so awful. I don't think its fair to fully judge him off of that year. If Hoyer stayed healthy they probably would have won 8 or 9 games. I'm not saying to hire him, but the browns weren't that bad that year.

[Bluefire4]

This was my response to the question of "Was Pep Hamilton a scapegoat?" in a recently locked thread which I thought should have stayed open because it's a different topic from his firing.

 

 

I definitely think he had his issues but I understand why people outside (and even inside) the fan base could think that way. 

 

In Pep's first year as coordinator, we achieved fewest penalties and turnovers in the entire NFL. 

 

Last season we were the number one offense for most of the season. 

 

This year Luck gets hurt and has played terribly while leading the league in interceptions and when Hasselbeck is in the offense runs smoothly, but it's the complete opposite with Luck.

 

Non Colts fans seem to think we are trying to find a scapegoat out of anybody that can keep the blame off of Luck's shoulders.

[NewEra]

This was my response to the question of "Was Pep Hamilton a scapegoat?" in a recently locked thread which I thought should have stayed open because it's a different topic from his firing.

I definitely think he had his issues but I understand why people outside (and even inside) the fan base could think that way.

In Pep's first year as coordinator, we achieved fewest penalties and turnovers in the entire NFL.

Last season we were the number one offense for most of the season.

This year Luck gets hurt and has played terribly while leading the league in interceptions and when Hasselbeck is in the offense runs smoothly, but it's the complete opposite with Luck.

Non Colts fans seem to think we are trying to find a scapegoat out of anybody that can keep the blame off of Luck's shoulders.

No doubt Luck isn't playing well. What bothers me especially is the fact that our offense would be different with MH in there versus Luck. Should be the same for both. Because our line is not going to hold and protect Luck for 6+ seconds. Run, short passes, get D on their heels then hit them big. Worked for MH will work for Luck. Granted at times Luck is the problem and is not hitting his check downs but they are running long developing plays in the first place.

[COLTS449]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

[COLTS449]

Then Irsay's gonna clean the rest of the mess up this offseason, and bring in a big name coach and a big name GM that will go all in in free agency. but man. Pep Hamilton may be the worst OC I've ever seen.