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If Manning Is Healthy, Trade Down Is A Must!


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We dont need to have 2 QBs on the roster that can both start occupying 1/3rd of our cap space so with that in mind if Manning is healthy we need to trade down with Cleveland so that we can get the 4th overall pick and still have a shot at RGIII. We also would be in the running for drafting Justin Blackmon in that spot as well. We could get both of Cleveland's 1st round picks, their 2nd, and probably their 2013 1st as well. Id say that is a no brainer and still get a potential stud in RGIII to learn from Peyton for a year or 2.

We could then use the rest of those pics to solidify talent elsewhere in positions of need to turn this team around quickly.

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Sorry but this makes little sense. You are suggesting we trade down to #4 and get #26(I think), because you don't want 2 QB's occupying 1/3 of our cap space. Then you say draft RG3(who is a QB) and will make maybe a whopping 1 mil.$ less than Luck would. Then we would get somebody at #26 and another 2nd rder. and thats suppose to put us over the top on talent?

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Sorry but this makes little sense. You are suggesting we trade down to #4 and get #26(I think), because you don't want 2 QB's occupying 1/3 of our cap space. Then you say draft RG3(who is a QB) and will make maybe a whopping 1 mil.$ less than Luck would. Then we would get somebody at #26 and another 2nd rder. and thats suppose to put us over the top on talent?

You do make a valid point especially with QB'S occupying 1/3 of the cap space but, this is what i would do (i stated this in an earlier post) I think the solution is simple, trade the number one pick away to one of other teams in the top 5 of the draft like the Jags etc. Keep Manning if healthy, and hope RG3 drops to the 3, 4 or 5 (pick that u traded for). Then use all the picks you have aquired from trading away the number one to retool the team. This is the most logical answer i could come up with. All while keeping Manning, getting our qb of the future in RG3 and not dealing with all the media field day foolishness of Andrew Luck, then rebuilding through multitude of draft picks we acquired from the trade, all whiile staying a superbowl contender. Keepin all of Colts satisfied

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The biggest issue here is that Manning is coming off of 3 next surgeries, and will be 36 at the start of next season. It makes little since to sacrifice a potential once in a life time QB in Luck, for a few more years with Manning; all in the name of sentimentality (I think I spelled that right, haha).

I am a Colts fan first and a Peyton Manning fan second.

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If we are to take a QB with our first pick, i would MUCH rather it be Luck than RGIII or anyone else. If we trade the pick, i would much rather us wait to take a QB and use the top picks for OTHER areas of need. If we're going to take a QB with our first pick, we should take the best one. Lots of people say "but if Peyton is playing, we dont need a pro ready QB"...but then also say we "have to take a QB because we dont know if Peyton will stay healthy"....so, then if we take a QB, we SHOULD take the one best able to contribute if asked!

RGIII is a very talented athlete, but when its all said and done, Luck will likely be the MUCH better QB.

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Sorry but this makes little sense. You are suggesting we trade down to #4 and get #26(I think), because you don't want 2 QB's occupying 1/3 of our cap space. Then you say draft RG3(who is a QB) and will make maybe a whopping 1 mil.$ less than Luck would. Then we would get somebody at #26 and another 2nd rder. and thats suppose to put us over the top on talent?

we'd have #26, No. 33 and No. 37 (Cleveland's 2nd rounder)

3 of the Top-40???

That could put us over the top if Manning can play...

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we'd have #26, No. 33 and No. 37 (Cleveland's 2nd rounder)

3 of the Top-40???

That could put us over the top if Manning can play...

......but if you're drafting RG3 then you are only gaining 2 players(if you're convinced Manning will be back). Whats to say those players would even be significant contributions for the first 2 yrs.. I.E. Hughes, Brown, Moala, Ugoh all late first early 2nd rd. picks. There's no guarantee so why not just take the best guy in the draft?

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......but if you're drafting RG3 then you are only gaining 2 players(if you're convinced Manning will be back). Whats to say those players would even be significant contributions for the first 2 yrs.. I.E. Hughes, Brown, Moala, Ugoh all late first early 2nd rd. picks. There's no guarantee so why not just take the best guy in the draft?

Because there's no guarantee with Andrew Luck and, if Manning can play, he have 10 needs more than QB....

What would you say about me if I ran a team which averaged 12 points a game and had the worst defensive secondary in the NFL

and I drafted a guy No. 1 whose position on my team was already held by a four-time MVP...??

..and the guy I drafted for my 2-14 team never played one down in a real game the next year?

How stupid would you say I was????

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Because there's no guarantee with Andrew Luck and, if Manning can play, he have 10 needs more than QB....

What would you say about me if I ran a team which averaged 12 points a game and had the worst defensive secondary in the NFL

and I drafted a guy No. 1 whose position on my team was already held by a four-time MVP...??

..and the guy I drafted for my 2-14 team never played one down in a real game the next year?

How stupid would you say I was????

Well , when that 4 time MVP is 36 yrs. old and coming off 3 neck surgeries with no guarantee he ever takes another snap, I would say it's probably a pretty wise decision. Listen, we could go back and forth all day about this subject, but Polian said it himself , that he was fired for not having a good backup plan for the QB so I just don't see them passing on Luck for a couple extra picks this yr. and maybe a couple next yr.. I said it before, but it usually takes a couple yrs.(at least) for guys to find their way in the NFL so I really don't think getting some extra picks is going to dramatically improve the team in the time Manning has left.

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Wel , when that 4 time MVP is 36 yrs. old and coming off 3 neck surgeries with no guarantee he ever takes another snap, I would say it's probably a pretty wise decision. Listen, we could go back and forth all day about this subject, but Polian said it himself , that he was fired for not having a good backup plan for the QB so I just don't see them passing on Luck for a couple extra picks this yr. and maybe a couple next yr.. I said it before, but it usually takes a couple yrs.(at least) for guys to find their way in the NFL so I really don't think getting some extra picks is going to dramatically improve the team in the time Manning has left.

Polian was fired for a lot of reasons....That's the one he admits to....Polian has never been arrested for telling too much truth...

But if I cant convince you that 3 Top-40 picks (plus the return of Manning) could improve us dramatically....

....its a good place to call it a draw...

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Balzer I think RGIII is closer to Luck in potential than you may think. Its not a big dropoff between them and RGIII has just enough potential if not more than Luck. And seeing how successful Cam Newton was his first year, I dont think RGIII would be that bad if he had to step in if Manning were hurt next season.

I just made this thread simply on that its hard for me to decide on who I want at QB for the future of this team between Luck and RGIII so why not trade down and let the decision become easier while getting extra picks in the deal to revamp this team? It just makes too much sense to do this if Manning is healthy. Again if Manning is not healthy going into the year, then Luck has to be the pick since he is the most pro ready QB in years. But having RGIII sit behind Manning for a year or 2 could make Griffin scary good.

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Polian was fired for a lot of reasons....That's the one he admits to....Polian has never been arrested for telling too much truth...

But if I cant convince you that 3 Top-40 picks (plus the return of Manning) could improve us dramatically....

....its a good place to call it a draw...

fair enough.

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Balzer I think RGIII is closer to Luck in potential than you may think. Its not a big dropoff between them and RGIII has just enough potential if not more than Luck. And seeing how successful Cam Newton was his first year, I dont think RGIII would be that bad if he had to step in if Manning were hurt next season.

I just made this thread simply on that its hard for me to decide on who I want at QB for the future of this team between Luck and RGIII so why not trade down and let the decision become easier while getting extra picks in the deal to revamp this team? It just makes too much sense to do this if Manning is healthy. Again if Manning is not healthy going into the year, then Luck has to be the pick since he is the most pro ready QB in years. But having RGIII sit behind Manning for a year or 2 could make Griffin scary good.

RG3 might turn into a great QB, in fact, for his sake I hope he does. Im not so jaded to wish failure on the kid (like many here do with Luck), but im really just not convinced. It worries me that he's never read a defense and that he's had every single play called for him in his college career. Could he eventually learn that? Sure, but I would rather not take that chance that he won't be able to grasp it and just have to rely on athletic ability. We've seen that go wrong in the NFL too many times.

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This would help the Colts…

Trade down with Cleveland for their two firsts and second this year, and their first and second next year. Washington will want RGIII and give us there first and second round pick.

Round One (6)- Dre Kirpatrick CB

Round Two (25)- Zach Brown WLB

Round Two (33)- Dontari Poe or Best Available NT

Round Two (36)- Mark Barron SS

Round Two (38)- Stephon Gilmore CB

Round Three (65)- Vinny Curry DE

Round Four- Amini Silatoulo G

Round Five- Case Keenum QB

Round Five (Compensatory)- Jeff Fuller or Ryan Broyles WR

Round Six- Marcus Zusevkis G/T

Round Seven- Scott Wedige C

Round Seven (Compensatory)- Terrance Ganaway RB

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This would help the Colts…

Trade down with Cleveland for their two firsts and second this year, and their first and second next year. Washington will want RGIII and give us there first and second round pick.

Round One (6)- Dre Kirpatrick CB

Round Two (25)- Zach Brown WLB

Round Two (33)- Dontari Poe or Best Available NT

Round Two (36)- Mark Barron SS

Round Two (38)- Stephon Gilmore CB

Round Three (65)- Vinny Curry DE

Round Four- Amini Silatoulo G

Round Five- Case Keenum QB

Round Five (Compensatory)- Jeff Fuller or Ryan Broyles WR

Round Six- Marcus Zusevkis G/T

Round Seven- Scott Wedige C

Round Seven (Compensatory)- Terrance Ganaway RB

Id rather stay at the 4 spot and get RG3 to learn from Peyton for a year or 2 and then we will have our future beast at QB. Or I wouldnt mind getting WR Justin Blackmon. I think the 6th overall spot is too high for Kirkpatrick. Then with the rest of the draft get a stud TE like Dwayne Allen, and defensive help in the secondary and NT spot along with another OG.

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Id rather stay at the 4 spot and get RG3 to learn from Peyton for a year or 2 and then we will have our future beast at QB. Or I wouldnt mind getting WR Justin Blackmon. I think the 6th overall spot is too high for Kirkpatrick. Then with the rest of the draft get a stud TE like Dwayne Allen, and defensive help in the secondary and NT spot along with another OG.

There is plenty of talent coming out at the QB position, don't need RGIII. Keenum can sit and learn, while addressing the D. Kirpatrick can play man or zone that's the benefit of him. Blackmon will be gone by pick #4, Claiborne isn't a zone corner. I would rather trade down again and pick up and additional second rounder. If the Colts got my mock draft, that would seriously infuse the team with talent.

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Id rather stay at the 4 spot and get RG3 to learn from Peyton for a year or 2 and then we will have our future beast at QB. Or I wouldnt mind getting WR Justin Blackmon. I think the 6th overall spot is too high for Kirkpatrick. Then with the rest of the draft get a stud TE like Dwayne Allen, and defensive help in the secondary and NT spot along with another OG.

Don't need Allen with Clarke and Tamme on the roster. Why waist a second round pick on him? Look at that revamped defense I gave you! A CB, SS, NT, WLB.. all with the first five picks! Then you have a WR in there and two guards and a center, and a pass rushing phenom to add to the rotation. That's a solid mock with a trade down.

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If we were to trade with cleveland then we still might have to draft Luck first, then wait to see if RG3 makes it down to Cleveland then do the swap at that point. There is a good chance that some team will jump up to the 2nd or 3rd pick and still him away from us. This is assuming that the colts would either get Luck or RG3 at any cost. If not then get Claiborne/Blackmon and pick up a developmental QB in the 2nd or 3rd round.

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Balzer I think RGIII is closer to Luck in potential than you may think. Its not a big dropoff between them and RGIII has just enough potential if not more than Luck. And seeing how successful Cam Newton was his first year, I dont think RGIII would be that bad if he had to step in if Manning were hurt next season.

I just made this thread simply on that its hard for me to decide on who I want at QB for the future of this team between Luck and RGIII so why not trade down and let the decision become easier while getting extra picks in the deal to revamp this team? It just makes too much sense to do this if Manning is healthy. Again if Manning is not healthy going into the year, then Luck has to be the pick since he is the most pro ready QB in years. But having RGIII sit behind Manning for a year or 2 could make Griffin scary good.

I understand exactly what you're saying because I find myself doing the same thing. RG3 has the potential to be freaky good in the nfl and I definately wouldn't be upset if we drafted him. The thing is there's soo many experts out there that know much more than I do about evaluating a qb that say Luck is the best thing since sliced bread so I think you gotta go with him. I think the only way you don't go with him is if Manning says he won't play in indy if you take Luck. If thats the case I think you either trade down and pick up RG3 since he is more of a project for manning or you pick up Luck and trade him to some team for the whole farm! Like to Dallas for ware and bryant.

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why do people keep saying we need to trade the #1 pick, because we need to fill so many holes....and that we cant have a #1 pick QB sitting behind Manning, and that it would also cost too much....then almost ALL of them have us taking RGIII with our first pick after the trade? The money tied up in QB will be almost identical with RGIII vs Luck...and Luck is better and more ready, and if he's our back up for Manning, wouldnt you want the best/most ready player, in case he has to play?

Not to mention the fact that Collins/Painter/Orlovski made more this past year than Luck would anyhow!

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why do people keep saying we need to trade the #1 pick, because we need to fill so many holes....and that we cant have a #1 pick QB sitting behind Manning, and that it would also cost too much....then almost ALL of them have us taking RGIII with our first pick after the trade? The money tied up in QB will be almost identical with RGIII vs Luck...and Luck is better and more ready, and if he's our back up for Manning, wouldnt you want the best/most ready player, in case he has to play?

Not to mention the fact that Collins/Painter/Orlovski made more this past year than Luck would anyhow!

Well mine doesnt include a QB until Keenum in the 5th round.

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I understand exactly what you're saying because I find myself doing the same thing. RG3 has the potential to be freaky good in the nfl and I definately wouldn't be upset if we drafted him. The thing is there's soo many experts out there that know much more than I do about evaluating a qb that say Luck is the best thing since sliced bread so I think you gotta go with him. I think the only way you don't go with him is if Manning says he won't play in indy if you take Luck. If thats the case I think you either trade down and pick up RG3 since he is more of a project for manning or you pick up Luck and trade him to some team for the whole farm! Like to Dallas for ware and bryant.

This pick cannot be based on Manning's personal feelings. Sure he's meant and done more for this team than anyone, but this has to be a business decision and not an emotional decision.

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RG3 might turn into a great QB, in fact, for his sake I hope he does. Im not so jaded to wish failure on the kid (like many here do with Luck), but im really just not convinced. It worries me that he's never read a defense and that he's had every single play called for him in his college career. Could he eventually learn that? Sure, but I would rather not take that chance that he won't be able to grasp it and just have to rely on athletic ability. We've seen that go wrong in the NFL too many times.

That's one of the strongest reasons I would take Luck over RG3. Luck is fed three plays and has a fourth option of choosing his own. This reminds me of Peyton and why he is the best. It makes me think he can grasp the colts system better. Supposedly RG3 is also very bright but that doesn't always transfer into football bright. I just think if he had that same ability Baylor would be utilizing it more like Stanford does with Luck.

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Well mine doesnt include a QB until Keenum in the 5th round.

I wasnt talking about you, just all of the people saying we have to trade the pick and take RGIII

I was on the trade the pick and fill other holes band wagon...but now, if we take Luck and he's willing to sit and learn, i'm ok with it. But i just dont want RGIII at all. He's the over rated flavor of the month/caught in the moment player that rises on the draft boards every single year, yet isnt anything special once he gets in the NFL.

And before anyone says "but they said the same about Cam Newton...", yes they did...but they only had ONE year to base their opinions on, on Newton.

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This pick cannot be based on Manning's personal feelings. Sure he's meant and done more for this team than anyone, but this has to be a business decision and not an emotional decision.

I understand that it is a buisness decision. I don't say this because of emotion I say it in the best interest of winning. I fully believe that Manning gives us the best opportunity to win another title in the next few years over anyone you pick in the draft. However, despite what the analysts on TV say, if we pick Luck and Manning is unhappy I think this will effect his play a great deal simply because what makes him great is his mind and I feel he would be distracted. Not only that but I think it would also effect how he mentors the qb of the future. And in the long run I would rather have an RG3 mentored by Peyton than Luck behind a disgruntled Manning. Either way you go about it I think you still keep Manning because we can get a lot of value out of him even after a few more years.

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I know I will get ridiculed for saying this but I really think if we could get Tebow to learn behind Peyton and use our first round pick to build on our defense or pick up someone like richardson at rb we would be doing pretty good. Tebow could fix what has plauged us for years in our short yard game right off the bat and his persona fits our organization to the T. At the very least with him playing behind Peyton his stock would rise tremendously while we are using our draft picks to revamp the rest of our team and we would most likely be able to pull an andy reid and trade him for a lot more than he is worth!

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I know I will get ridiculed for saying this but I really think if we could get Tebow to learn behind Peyton and use our first round pick to build on our defense or pick up someone like richardson at rb we would be doing pretty good. Tebow could fix what has plauged us for years in our short yard game right off the bat and his persona fits our organization to the T. At the very least with him playing behind Peyton his stock would rise tremendously while we are using our draft picks to revamp the rest of our team and we would most likely be able to pull an andy reid and trade him for a lot more than he is worth!

I'm going to be nice since you admitted that you would get ridiculed but the image of Tebow ever taking a snap for the Colts makes me want to burn my Colts jersey.

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RG3 might turn into a great QB, in fact, for his sake I hope he does. Im not so jaded to wish failure on the kid (like many here do with Luck), but im really just not convinced. It worries me that he's never read a defense and that he's had every single play called for him in his college career. Could he eventually learn that? Sure, but I would rather not take that chance that he won't be able to grasp it and just have to rely on athletic ability. We've seen that go wrong in the NFL too many times.

The Cam Newton/RG III discussion is getting old fast. I was one of the people who didn't think Cam Newton would come close to doing what he is and I will be the first to admit, I was dead wrong. But one thing people have to account for is Newton's size. He is able to play his style of QB in this league because of it. RGIII has tons of natural talent, don't get me wrong. He just has alot farther to go to get the NFL level of QB play than Luck. It's understandable because RGIII hasn't been playing QB as long and came into college as a track star. What RGIII has done in the last three years is nothing short of amazing. But it's still a big risk and a long leap for him to learn this position and become the next starting QB for the Colts. Also Cam Newton is an exception to the rule. Obviously QBs have came out of nowhere and proved the scouts wrong before, look at Brady. But looking at QBs in the past and who has been rated as high as Luck before him, they have become solid NFL QBs at worst and at best great QBs. Luck is the safest pick to make and atleast a sure thing to be a solid QB. Don't bring Jeff George and Jamarcus Russell into the conversation, they weren't rated as high by NFL scouts, they were just picked first in the draft. It's a huge difference.

As far as trading the pick, you have to pick Luck for the future. The Colts probably won't get another first pick, especially if Manning is healthy. The QB selection this year is one of the best classes overall in a while. It also means that we might not get what you think for trading the pick. Another thing to remember is Matt Flynn's performance for Green Bay and him being a free agent next year. The only trade that even looks halfway worth it is Cleaveland if they are willing to give up both first round picks, otherwise it's pointless. The question is Cleaveland going to give them up for Luck or sign Flynn and use those picks to build their team.

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The Cam Newton/RG III discussion is getting old fast. I was one of the people who didn't think Cam Newton would come close to doing what he is and I will be the first to admit, I was dead wrong. But one thing people have to account for is Newton's size. He is able to play his style of QB in this league because of it. RGIII has tons of natural talent, don't get me wrong. He just has alot farther to go to get the NFL level of QB play than Luck. It's understandable because RGIII hasn't been playing QB as long and came into college as a track star. What RGIII has done in the last three years is nothing short of amazing. But it's still a big risk and a long leap for him to learn this position and become the next starting QB for the Colts. Also Cam Newton is an exception to the rule. Obviously QBs have came out of nowhere and proved the scouts wrong before, look at Brady. But looking at QBs in the past and who has been rated as high as Luck before him, they have become solid NFL QBs at worst and at best great QBs. Luck is the safest pick to make and atleast a sure thing to be a solid QB. Don't bring Jeff George and Jamarcus Russell into the conversation, they weren't rated as high by NFL scouts, they were just picked first in the draft. It's a huge difference.

Was this directed towards me? I feel the same way. RG3 has a ton of talent but I just don't think he will be able to transfer his skills to the NFL. The NFL isn't the Big 12 conference, The players in the NFL are bigger, stronger, and more athletic than anything he's seen at Baylor. They have him listed at 6'2" but most people think thats a very generous listing. He is closer to 6'0" than he is to 6'2", very similar to Vick. He won't be nearly as dominating in the NFL as he was at Baylor and still, my biggest worry with him is that in 3 yrs. at Baylor he wasn't able to learn reading defenses. That does not bode well for him in the NFL and espesially with the Colts.

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I'm going to be nice since you admitted that you would get ridiculed but the image of Tebow ever taking a snap for the Colts makes me want to burn my Colts jersey.

Hahaha I hear you loud and clear! I'm not saying have him as our future QB unless somehow manning manages to transform him drastically! I'm saying use him right now as a short yard back (how many 3rd and 1's have we watched our team struggle with?) then trade him for great value like reid did with Kolb since learning under peyton would definately improve his stock! Ultimately though I would like to see manning suck up his pride and mentor Luck since after watching irsays press conference seems to be who we are going to be picking up.

One thing that scares me is irsay mentioning the salary cap in that press conference. With peyton eating up what is it like 28 million if we keep him? To me that sounds like he is ready to get rid of him and move on! If we just cut manning and don't get anything for him we will be the laughing stalk of the league!

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I think we should trade to more picks. Every one is concerned about the QB of the future, that they are willing to take the flavors of the month. There are good QBs lower in the draft that nobody is talking about. Tannahill from Texas A&M, Manuel from Florida State, and one really not being talked about is Nick Foles from Arizona to name a few. The College people that grade draft positions have him 5/6 or Late 2nd round/ early 3rd rounder. Has all the skills and football IQ of Luck, but will be willing to sit and learn.

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I think we should trade to more picks. Every one is concerned about the QB of the future, that they are willing to take the flavors of the month. There are good QBs lower in the draft that nobody is talking about. Tannahill from Texas A&M, Manuel from Florida State, and one really not being talked about is Nick Foles from Arizona to name a few. The College people that grade draft positions have him 5/6 or Late 2nd round/ early 3rd rounder. Has all the skills and football IQ of Luck, but will be willing to sit and learn.

If he has all have the same skills and football IQ as Luck, then why is he a late round projections?
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me thinks if another fan base said they were trading one of the best qb prospects ever because they already have a great 36 year old qb coming off three neck surgeries we would laugh our arses off.....

Pats didn't give up on Brady when he tore his ACL, oh cause they couldn't, cause they had the rest of the team who could play and they did well that year. Don't matter what QB u but I'm that system and they'll succeed.
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With the idea of Manning being totally healthy I say we trade the pick and draft Claiborne in the first. We need a corner that can actually shut down WRs. You team Claiborne up with the pass rush of Frathis and you have a deadly combo. This makes Powers are number two and he would be a great number two corner.

Then you take the rest of the draft to and try to fill the holes at OLB, DT, and safety.

You re-sign Dan to a one year deal to back up Peyton and then you are going to have a top 10 pick next year and Landry Jones, Matt Barkley, Tyler Bray, or Tyler Wilson will all probably be in the 2013 draft.

I have always said if Manning is healthy and ready to go by March then just go all in with him for these next two years and get a real defense. You build a defense and get some OL help and then in 2013 you draft the replacement. Then when he is ready he has a defense and OL to protect him.

The biggest problem we have is that we are so reliant on our QB. We went from a perennial playoff team to 2-14 because we lost one player. We need get a defense that can stand on its own even if we are not having a great day offensively. We need to be able to run the darn ball so our QB does not have to do everything. We need to create a team not a one man show like Manning was.

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I like the trade down idea if its to take RG3. Either way its time to pickup a young QB for the future and to provide some talent at the backup spot. Will make tough decisions pop up down the road but atleast the team has options for the future incase things dont work out with Manning.

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Pats didn't give up on Brady when he tore his ACL, oh cause they couldn't, cause they had the rest of the team who could play and they did well that year. Don't matter what QB u but I'm that system and they'll succeed.

u lost me....

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Polian was fired for a lot of reasons....That's the one he admits to....Polian has never been arrested for telling too much truth...

But if I cant convince you that 3 Top-40 picks (plus the return of Manning) could improve us dramatically....

....its a good place to call it a draw...

Back in '98, would any1 say that 3 Top-40 picks(or even 4 or 5) would be a Better Choice than drafting Manning?

There are only a small handful of elite QB's in a QB driven league like the NFL and you can't pass up on them when you have a chance to get one. Just ask Dolphin fans how replacing Marino has gone.

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