Report: Irsay, Grigson had “heated conversation” in locker room

[Superman]

As for poor play conception, from the Patriots game, I give you the 3rd and short the play BEFORE the disaster of a fake punt attempt.

 

 if memory serves correctly, it was 3rd and about 2 or so yards.  There was no play action, Luck drops back to pass, and every receiver runs routes deep, like ten yards or more down field.  Nobody is open and there is NO outlet pass option for about the 2 - 3 yards needed.  I have not reviewed the play since, but I am sure Luck had NO check down option.

 

Yup, it was 3rd and 3, and Gore had already gashed the Pats defense for gains of 6, 5 and 6 on that drive, and we didn't even act like we might pretend that we might consider possibly contemplating a run play.

 

Perfect time for Y Banana, but I think they tore that play out of the play book because it worked too well against the Titans. We have to go the hard way...

[krunk]

Just to piggyback on the bolded, there have been plenty of times when there were underneath options open, and Luck missed them. That includes poor throws.

 

And a note about screens: We need to start cutting the playside DE/OLB on screen plays. It might be a tell, but at least that player isn't going to bat the ball down at the LOS, or worse, pop it into the air where it can be picked off. Then maybe Luck will be more comfortable letting those screen passes rip.

 

 

There's all kind of stuff I think of in the decision making process where he has got to be better.  I think there was a roll out to the right or whatever the play was he did against the Saints at some point where he didn't really have anybody open and he spots T.Y. standing a couple inches from being out of bounds.  Luck was very close to T.Y. and the play was pretty much dead, however Luck decides to shotgun the ball into T.Y. and the ball pops up in the air and was darn near intercepted for another turnover.  He has to learn when to just eat the play.  Take the sack, run out of bounds or whatever the case.  He's not as good as Favre was with the acrobat stuff and that's fine with me because Favre blew a lot of games with that wild stuff.

[Superman]

There's all kind of stuff I think of in the decision making process where he has got to be better.  I think there was a roll out to the right or whatever the play was he did against the Saints at some point where he didn't really have anybody open and he spots T.Y. standing a couple inches from being out of bounds.  Luck was very close to T.Y. and the play was pretty much dead, however Luck decides to shotgun the ball into T.Y. and the ball pops up in the air and was darn near intercepted for another turnover.  He has to learn when to just eat the play.  Take the sack, run out of bounds or whatever the case.  He's not as good as Favre was with the acrobat stuff and that's fine with me because Favre blew a lot of games with that wild stuff.

 

I know the play. I agree. Just throw the ball out of bounds.

 

He's in Year 4. He's our best and most important player. I don't expect him to be perfect, but no one would deny that this team's potential is directly linked to his play.

[Mameluc]

http://www.newsandtribune.com/sports/national_sports/colts-pagano-enthusiastic-about-new-colts-offensive-coordinator/article_cafec842-a373-545d-afe9-b8bf01d7b74b.html

 

 

 

Everything has always added up to Arians being a Pagano decision. I can't find the link or the article, but I remember Pagano saying that hiring Arians was his first official duty as the head coach. Obviously, Grigson and Irsay were on board and sanctioned the hire, but it's pretty clear that Arians was Pagano's choice.

 

As for this Pep story, IMO there are not significant reports. There's really one report that's ill-informed (because of the Chud angle, which doesn't make sense), and then everyone took and ran with that one report, piling new 'reports' on top of it. And now this story has come to be accepted as fact, and there's really no evidence to support it. Maybe it's true that Grigson steered the ship on the Pep hire, and maybe it's true that Pagano would like to have Chud be the OC, but it's entirely supposition and conjecture. Even calling it a report is a stretch, IMO, much less 'significant reports.' 

dont know man. I have a hard time thinking someone like LaCanfora and others (cant remember who else was) report same thing with no one to confirm the story. its just bad journalism.

It is your name on it

 

"The working relationship between Pagano and Grigson was already deteriorating to that point -- Pagano has no say over personnel and did not get final say on his staff either, with Grigson hiring offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton. Pagano had pushed Rob Chudzinski for the job -- and the offer -- which read like a vote of no, or minimal, confidence from ownership, has only ramped up the friction."

[Superman]

dont know man. I have a hard time thinking someone like LaCanfora and others (cant remember who else was) report same thing with no one to confirm the story. its just bad journalism.

It is your name on it

 

La Canfora isn't immune to bad journalism. He's done plenty of it. His 'report' about Pep v Chud was factually inaccurate, and he never bothered to fix it. Even now, a month later, the La Canfora article linked below insists that Pagano wanted Chud instead of Pep, and that's not true.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25299724/chuck-paganos-days-appear-numbered-as-friction-with-colts-gm-grows

[Mameluc]

La Canfora isn't immune to bad journalism. He's done plenty of it. His 'report' about Pep v Chud was factually inaccurate, and he never bothered to fix it. Even now, a month later, the La Canfora article linked below insists that Pagano wanted Chud instead of Pep, and that's not true.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25299724/chuck-paganos-days-appear-numbered-as-friction-with-colts-gm-grows

I am kind alost here maybe i missed something ... How is his repport of Pep Chud inaccurate? im geniunely asking not being sarcastic.  who said something regarding that...or what are u talking about?

[Superman]

I am kind alost here maybe i missed something ... How is his repport of Pep Chud inaccurate? im geniunely asking not being sarcastic.  who said something regarding that...or what are u talking about?

 

The story La Canfora is reporting is that Pagano wanted Chud, but Grigson wanted Pep, so they hired Pep. 

 

But Arians was hired by the Cardinals 1/17/2013. That's six days after Chudzinski was hired as the Browns head coach. I think we all can agree that Chudzinski wasn't on the short list of potential coordinators to replace Arians; he was busy interviewing and being hired and then settling in with the Browns. So whatever disagreement there might have been about replacing Arians, it definitely wasn't Pep v Chud. 

 

Furthermore, Pep was hired by the Colts two days after Arians went to the Cardinals. I don't believe they even interviewed anyone else.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8855315/arizona-cardinals-hire-bruce-arians-new-head-coach

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8833956/cleveland-browns-hire-rob-chudzinski-head-coach

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000128373/article/pep-hamilton-hired-to-run-indianapolis-colts-offense

 

It's still possible that they disagreed on hiring Pep. It's possible that Grigson overruled or vetoed Pagano when they replaced Arians, or at any point since then about potentially moving on from Pep, whether that's for Chud or anyone else. But a) none of that has been suggested or reported, and b) that's not what La Canfora said. What he said -- Pagano wanted wanted Chud, but Grigson hired Pep -- can't be true. 

[esmort]

The story La Canfora is reporting is that Pagano wanted Chud, but Grigson wanted Pep, so they hired Pep. 

 

But Arians was hired by the Cardinals 1/17/2013. That's six days after Chudzinski was hired as the Browns head coach. I think we all can agree that Chudzinski wasn't on the short list of potential coordinators to replace Arians; he was busy interviewing and being hired and then settling in with the Browns. So whatever disagreement there might have been about replacing Arians, it definitely wasn't Pep v Chud. 

 

Furthermore, Pep was hired by the Colts two days after Arians went to the Cardinals. I don't believe they even interviewed anyone else.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8855315/arizona-cardinals-hire-bruce-arians-new-head-coach

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8833956/cleveland-browns-hire-rob-chudzinski-head-coach

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000128373/article/pep-hamilton-hired-to-run-indianapolis-colts-offense

 

It's still possible that they disagreed on hiring Pep. It's possible that Grigson overruled or vetoed Pagano when they replaced Arians, or at any point since then about potentially moving on from Pep, whether that's for Chud or anyone else. But a) none of that has been suggested or reported, and b) that's not what La Canfora said. What he said -- Pagano wanted wanted Chud, but Grigson hired Pep -- can't be true. 

 

I agree...but playing devil's advocate ....

 

Isn't there a possibility they knew much earlier Arians would likely leave after the season, so they started discussing the possible replacements and had the disagreement much earlier; long before either Arians or Chud were in serious talks with the Cards and the Browns.

[Superman]

I agree...but playing devil's advocate ....

 

Isn't there a possibility they knew much earlier Arians would likely leave after the season, so they started discussing the possible replacements and had the disagreement much earlier; long before either Arians or Chud were in serious talks with the Cards and the Browns.

 

Yes, that's technically possible. As a matter of fact, Arians interviewed with several teams before he was offered the Cardinals job, so the Colts knew that they might have to replace Arians. Pagano and Grigson both said that they were preparing for the possibility.

 

But keep in mind, Chud was under contract with the Panthers as the OC, and was a hot commodity. He started interviewing for head coaching jobs in early January, while the Colts were still in the playoffs. Before he went to the Browns, and while Arians was interviewing for head coaching jobs, Chud interviewed with the Jags, Rams and Bucs. It seems less than likely that the Colts would try to poach the Panthers OC in a lateral move. It seems even less likely when you acknowledge that he was a popular head coaching candidate.

 

If they had any significant disagreement over who would replace Arians, I feel confident in saying that Chud wasn't in the picture.

[achcolts]

where did the spider y2 banana play go? we ran that like 5 times a game last season.

[ColtRider]

I know the play. I agree. Just throw the ball out of bounds.

 

He's in Year 4. He's our best and most important player. I don't expect him to be perfect, but no one would deny that this team's potential is directly linked to his play.

Not only this, take away the crucial turnovers and penalties this team has endured since game 1 v. Bills it's 6-1 instead of 3-4. Luck's play is considered terrific (bad throws aside) and all is well in tinsel town. But how dare I be amiss at the obvious like fundamental football and the like. After all, coaching is everything, and players aren't subjugated to anything.

[Mameluc]

Yes, that's technically possible. As a matter of fact, Arians interviewed with several teams before he was offered the Cardinals job, so the Colts knew that they might have to replace Arians. Pagano and Grigson both said that they were preparing for the possibility.

 

But keep in mind, Chud was under contract with the Panthers as the OC, and was a hot commodity. He started interviewing for head coaching jobs in early January, while the Colts were still in the playoffs. Before he went to the Browns, and while Arians was interviewing for head coaching jobs, Chud interviewed with the Jags, Rams and Bucs. It seems less than likely that the Colts would try to poach the Panthers OC in a lateral move. It seems even less likely when you acknowledge that he was a popular head coaching candidate.

 

If they had any significant disagreement over who would replace Arians, I feel confident in saying that Chud wasn't in the picture.

I see what you mean now. I didnt know the exact times those hirings happened. I see your point now.

 

Yea it seemskinda obvious pep vs chud (assumming those times you mentioned are right) was never a thing. Why would Chud go for a lateral move? I mean disregard the whole HC stuff, why would he move to just be another OC?

Now, taking into account he was interviewed for HC makes even less likely such scenario(Pep vs Chud) happened.

[krunk]

Yup, it was 3rd and 3, and Gore had already gashed the Pats defense for gains of 6, 5 and 6 on that drive, and we didn't even act like we might pretend that we might consider possibly contemplating a run play.

 

Perfect time for Y Banana, but I think they tore that play out of the play book because it worked too well against the Titans. We have to go the hard way...

 

 

Play action or a run would have worked.  Now I will say that each time I've seen the Colts try to run Spider 2 against Ninkovich he almost always shuts it down. I've never seen him out of place when we've run that play.  And we never run it anywhere but to the right side.

[Superman]

Play action or a run would have worked.  Now I will say that each time I've seen the Colts try to run Spider 2 against Ninkovich he almost always shuts it down. I've never seen him out of place when we've run that play.  And we never run it anywhere but to the right side.

 

So run it away from him. 

 

Or, the two best play calls I've seen from Pep are the DHB sweep pivot against the Broncos in 2013, and the read option against the Chiefs in 2013. Either of those, or a variation of either of those, would be a nice option. 

 

This all illustrates why I try not to nitpick specific play calls. I know the coaches watch more film, pick up on tendencies, and then develop gameplans that are influenced by what they've seen. But I also see them abandon common sense way too often. 

[Superman]

I see what you mean now. I didnt know the exact times those hirings happened. I see your point now.

 

Yea it seemskinda obvious pep vs chud (assumming those times you mentioned are right) was never a thing. Why would Chud go for a lateral move? I mean disregard the whole HC stuff, why would he move to just be another OC?

Now, taking into account he was interviewed for HC makes even less likely such scenario(Pep vs Chud) happened.

 

That's all I'm saying. Makes me discount the whole story from La Canfora. He could have inferred that from other things he's been told. I'm not saying he just made it all up, and there definitely could be issues up top, but that isn't one of them.

[Superman]

Not only this, take away the crucial turnovers and penalties this team has endured since game 1 v. Bills it's 6-1 instead of 3-4. Luck's play is considered terrific (bad throws aside) and all is well in tinsel town. But how dare I be amiss at the obvious like fundamental football and the like. After all, coaching is everything, and players aren't subjugated to anything.

 

There's not a game this year we couldn't have won, including the Pats game. Too many mistakes, too many penalties, too many turnovers. All friendly fire, IMO, and most of it from the offense, which was meant to set the tone for the entire team.

 

And for all the bad coaching, there's been plenty of bad execution. Again, particularly from the offense, which is the ultimate irony.

 

I think it's fixable, but that would mean Pep getting it together, Chuck getting it together, Luck getting it together... and time is running out.

[krunk]

So run it away from him. 

 

Or, the two best play calls I've seen from Pep are the DHB sweep pivot against the Broncos in 2013, and the read option against the Chiefs in 2013. Either of those, or a variation of either of those, would be a nice option. 

 

This all illustrates why I try not to nitpick specific play calls. I know the coaches watch more film, pick up on tendencies, and then develop gameplans that are influenced by what they've seen. But I also see them abandon common sense way too often. 

 

That's what I'm saying. For some reason they only seem to like to run that play to the right.  I've seen Luck run it to the left at Stanford, but they seem to have some aversion to doing so with Indy.  It's strange.

[RockThatBlue]

Irsay is like where is my "build the monster". I atleast had star wars before.

Luck is probably thinking "Build the monster? These fools can't even build an o line."

[RockThatBlue]

where did the spider y2 banana play go? we ran that like 5 times a game last season.

Who even knows. The play worked almost every time too.

[F.T. Walton]

Colts ranked most dysfunctional team by Don Banks.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/28/nfl-dysfunctional-teams-colts-49ers-texans-cowboys-bills

 

"Who you got at No. 1? Indianapolis (3-4), on the strength of its season-long behind-the-scenes melodrama featuring the dysfunctional triangle of lame-duck head coach Chuck Pagano, short-tempered general manager Ryan Grigson and unpredictable team owner Jim Irsay? We already know Pagano and Grigson butt heads, but now comes word that the GM and the owner had a “heated conversation’’ after the team’s most recent loss, in which the Colts fell behind 27-0 at home to the Saints on Sunday before rallying to make it a game."

[CanuckColt]

Big Jim has the right to be ticked off at Grigson who has signed old dud after old dud in making the Colts the oldest team in the NFL.