FBI Launches Daily Fantasy Football Probe

[jvan1973]

Pretty cool story. If you're going to be a professional gambler than chances are you're going to be rich and broke 7 times in your life. Be weary of the 7th.

Yeah, having a family and a mortgage I'm way too chicken for that level. But it's different being in a room full of guys that make their living that way. Much different mindsets than I've ever been around.

[dw49]

I'm not sure if you know who Kenna James is, but he is my best friends cousin. We stayed at his place in Vegas a few years ago. It's safe to say those guys are on a different level where gambling is concerned. I enjoy gambling a little, I'm too conservative to make a career out of it. The highs are really high, but the lows can ruin you

 

 

My son says he's played a lot with him. He's more of a hustler than poker player now. No offense as I'm sure you could care less , but most of those guys around 5o have been passed by the young guys. They've studies every out and % of every hand you can be dealt. My son studies hours and hours and barley makes a living now. 

[jvan1973]

My son says he's played a lot with him. He's more of a hustler than poker player now. No offense as I'm sure you could care less , but most of those guys around 5o have been passed by the young guys. They've studies every out and % of every hand you can be dealt. My son studies hours and hours and barley makes a living now.

Yeah, I have no clue what he is up to now. He has a nice place though

[dw49]

Yeah, I have no clue what he is up to now. He has a nice place though

 

 

Did he marry into some big bucks ?

[jvan1973]

Did he marry into some big bucks ?

Not that I'm aware. I really don't know. But he won a few million in the big tournaments in the 2000's.

[dw49]

Not that I'm aware. I really don't know. But he won a few million in the big tournaments in the 2000's.

 

 

Yes , he was a good tournament player.

[Andrew Luck's Beard]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/sports/football/draftkings-fanduel-new-york-attorney-general-tells-fantasy-sites-to-stop-taking-bets-in-new-york.html?_r=0

 

New York has declared daily fantasy sports to be illegal gambling. Let's see if this spreads to any other states soon.

[Cynjin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/sports/football/draftkings-fanduel-new-york-attorney-general-tells-fantasy-sites-to-stop-taking-bets-in-new-york.html?_r=0

 

New York has declared daily fantasy sports to be illegal gambling. Let's see if this spreads to any other states soon.

 

 

“It is clear that DraftKings and FanDuel are the leaders of a massive, multibillion-dollar scheme intended to evade the law and fleece sports fans across the country,” Mr. Schneiderman said, adding, “Today we have sent a clear message: not in New York, and not on my watch.”

 

 

 

I wonder why he has not shut down the New York State Lottery then.

[jvan1973]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/sports/football/draftkings-fanduel-new-york-attorney-general-tells-fantasy-sites-to-stop-taking-bets-in-new-york.html?_r=0

New York has declared daily fantasy sports to be illegal gambling. Let's see if this spreads to any other states soon.

Just what we need, more government action telling us how to live our lives

So stupid

[ColtsBlueFL]

Just what we need, more government action telling us how to live our lives

So stupid

 

This is somewhat baffling.  Doesn't NY allow lawful betting on horses?  How is that different from DFS?  Doesn't both require some skill and research in order to maximize chances to succeed? I see regulating DFS along the lines of horse race betting, but not declaring it illegal.  Hmmm....

[dw49]

“It is clear that DraftKings and FanDuel are the leaders of a massive, multibillion-dollar scheme intended to evade the law and fleece sports fans across the country,” Mr. Schneiderman said, adding, “Today we have sent a clear message: not in New York, and not on my watch.”

 

 

 

I wonder why he has not shut down the New York State Lottery then.

 

 

The lottery is fair. Government keeps about 50% of the money wagered.   Sports betting "vig" is 5 to 10%. 

 

States use these billions in robbed revenue to fund education. So they actually kept their promise. Ummm... wrong.  

 

The state budgets for education don't go up with this increased revenue they stole from people too stupid to know they are being robbed. They just use that money and put it toward what was budgeted to begin with. Then they take that sucker money and give themselves big pensions and the best health care. So yes they kept their word but doing a neat little swap.

[Cynjin]

The lottery is fair. Government keeps about 50% of the money wagered.   Sports betting "vig" is 5 to 10%. 

 

States use these billions in robbed revenue to fund education. So they actually kept their promise. Ummm... wrong.  

 

The state budgets for education don't go up with this increased revenue they stole from people too stupid to know they are being robbed. They just use that money and put it toward what was budgeted to begin with. Then they take that sucker money and give themselves big pensions and the best health care. So yes they kept their word but doing a neat little swap.

You're right, that whole funding the education system is bunk.

[SilentHill]

Just what we need, more government action telling us how to live our lives

So stupid

 

You think that is bad, try living here.

[IcEWoLF]

In tired of fan duel and draft kings commercials.

[shakedownstreet]

In tired of fan duel and draft kings commercials.

 

boy you ain't the only one 

[bababooey]

“It is clear that DraftKings and FanDuel are the leaders of a massive, multibillion-dollar scheme intended to evade the law and fleece sports fans across the country,” Mr. Schneiderman said, adding, “Today we have sent a clear message: not in New York, and not on my watch.”

 

 

 

I wonder why he has not shut down the New York State Lottery then.

Because the NY State Lottery is based on actual luck. When insider information is available to employees of either site and then they use that to win on the opposite site, that's pretty egregious. I read somewhere that .3% of all lifetime winnings paid out were won by employees of either site, which adds up to millions of dollars.

 

NY probably wants a cut of this and this is most likely the reason they declared it illegal. It was funny watching the NY Rangers game last night and seeing the Draft Kings logos on the boards and the announcers talking about the halftime show presented by Draft Kings and seeing the commercials about an hour after this ruling came out.

[jvan1973]

Because the NY State Lottery is based on actual luck. When insider information is available to employees of either site and then they use that to win on the opposite site, that's pretty egregious. I read somewhere that .3% of all lifetime winnings paid out were won by employees of either site, which adds up to millions of dollars.

Except that isn't what happened. Also, employees of the sites are no longer allowed to participate.

It's just more government interference in our lives. They can never have enough control

[bababooey]

Except that isn't what happened. Also, employees of the sites are no longer allowed to participate.

It's just more government interference in our lives. They can never have enough control

You mean the fan duel employee didn't have access to see which players were being played the most by all the users and then used that knowledge to submit entries on Draft Kings that were solely based on knowing the odds of which combination of players weren't submitted and thus could increase his odds of winning? And then he opened the can of worms by accidentally posting a screen shot of the information that he used to win 300K on a rival site? I must have missed where that didn't happen.

 

This is what led to them not being allowed to participate in other sites and eventually become illegal- the fact that while they grew so big so quickly and unregulated they were able to make gobs of money from dopes by using insider information and got caught with it. Again, the employees of both sites won .3% of the time with that info and made millions off of it while it was legal. You can take your tin foil hat off if you think it's solely the government's fault for not allowing them to operate because they weren't getting a piece.

[jvan1973]

You mean the fan duel employee didn't have access to see which players were being played the most by all the users and then used that knowledge to submit entries on Draft Kings that were solely based on knowing the odds of which combination of players weren't submitted and thus could increase his odds of winning? And then he opened the can of worms by accidentally posting a screen shot of the information that he used to win 300K on a rival site? I must have missed where that didn't happen.

This is what led to them not being allowed to participate in other sites and eventually become illegal- the fact that while they grew so big so quickly and unregulated they were able to make gobs of money from dopes by using insider information and got caught with it. Again, the employees of both sites won .3% of the time with that info and made millions off of it while it was legal. You can take your tin foil hat off if you think it's solely the government's fault for not allowing them to operate because they weren't getting a piece.

I guess following up on stories isn't your thing. Just hear the first accusation and run with it I guess

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13924648/investigation-commissioned-draftkings-says-employee-locked-lineup-receiving-internal-data

[dw49]

I guess following up on stories isn't your thing. Just hear the first accusation and run with it I guess

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13924648/investigation-commissioned-draftkings-says-employee-locked-lineup-receiving-internal-data

 

 

I have personal connections to people that make livings off this kind of betting. The guy that won the 300K more than likely won it because he has a huge advantage over the betting public. That advantage is not inside info but the guy probably knows how to put a lineup together while the average Joe has no clue. The sharp guys are making 6 figures every month with baseball and football. 

[jvan1973]

I have personal connections to people that make livings off this kind of betting. The guy that won the 300K more than likely won it because he has a huge advantage over the betting public. That advantage is not inside info but the guy probably knows how to put a lineup together while the average Joe has no clue. The sharp guys are making 6 figures every month with baseball and football.

If you have a decent bank roll and time to research anyone could learn to be pretty successful. The guy's making a living enter loads of lineups. They don't play the single entry contests

[dw49]

You mean the fan duel employee didn't have access to see which players were being played the most by all the users and then used that knowledge to submit entries on Draft Kings that were solely based on knowing the odds of which combination of players weren't submitted and thus could increase his odds of winning? And then he opened the can of worms by accidentally posting a screen shot of the information that he used to win 300K on a rival site? I must have missed where that didn't happen.

 

This is what led to them not being allowed to participate in other sites and eventually become illegal- the fact that while they grew so big so quickly and unregulated they were able to make gobs of money from dopes by using insider information and got caught with it. Again, the employees of both sites won .3% of the time with that info and made millions off of it while it was legal. You can take your tin foil hat off if you think it's solely the government's fault for not allowing them to operate because they weren't getting a piece.

 

 

Do you actually mean .3% or do you mean 3%. If it's .3 that's like a tick on an elephant's behind. 

Even at 3% , it would mean the better is getting hit with about 12% total big. It's 50% in the lottery scams.. about 18% in horse racing. If it's government "protecting" betters from being cheated , they are *s . Now if it's the fact that they want to take a piece of all their constituent's money and are going after the sites , that would be typical government .

[ColtsBlueFL]

If you have a decent bank roll and time to research anyone could learn to be pretty successful. The guy's making a living enter loads of lineups. They don't play the single entry contests

 

Wait, that sounds a little like if I have a decent bank roll, buy hundreds or thousand more entries into the Lotto, I can hit on a big pile and pay off all the losses from the other entries?  So that would be the Skill involved at winning Lotto?  Hmmmm....

 

I still think it is closer to horse racing, IMO. An by definition, DFS is betting-

 

"The act of gambling money on the final outcome of a race, game, or other unpredictable event."

 

People pay money in hopes of raising even more money.  To me, is shouldn't be illegal, as NY has done.  But it should have (at least minimal) regulation and oversight.

[bababooey]

Do you actually mean .3% or do you mean 3%. If it's .3 that's like a tick on an elephant's behind. 

Even at 3% , it would mean the better is getting hit with about 12% total big. It's 50% in the lottery scams.. about 18% in horse racing. If it's government "protecting" betters from being cheated , they are *s . Now if it's the fact that they want to take a piece of all their constituent's money and are going after the sites , that would be typical government .

.3% is not a tick that's the whole point. The amount of money going through this is astronomical.

[bababooey]

I guess following up on stories isn't your thing. Just hear the first accusation and run with it I guess

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13924648/investigation-commissioned-draftkings-says-employee-locked-lineup-receiving-internal-data

Ah ok so Draft Kings paid a law firm to come look at them and say they did nothing wrong. Pretty similar to Belichek saying they checked themselves in their football procedures and found nothing wrong.

[dw49]

.3% is not a tick that's the whole point. The amount of money going through this is astronomical.

 

 

.3% is less than 1/3 of a %... that is a tiny amount. What you're saying has almost zero relevance to a person that is gambling on these sites. This would be 1/150th of what the state takes out of every $ they receive for a lottery ticket. 

[bababooey]

.3% is less than 1/3 of a %... that is a tiny amount. What you're saying has almost zero relevance to a person that is gambling on these sites. This would be 1/150th of what the state takes out of every $ they receive for a lottery ticket. 

This isn't the lottery is the point. .3% of all that money is won by using insider information to craft winning combinations. The number should have been zero if it was legit and they didn't want to get shut down in some states.

[jvan1973]

This isn't the lottery is the point. .3% of all that money is won by using insider information to craft winning combinations. The number should have been zero if it was legit and they didn't want to get shut down in some states.

The information they had is availible to anyone who has the time to research it. Im guessing if you work at a company dedicated to fantasy sports, you're going to have more time than the average person to research. It really isn't a big conspiracy

[dw49]

This isn't the lottery is the point. .3% of all that money is won by using insider information to craft winning combinations. The number should have been zero if it was legit and they didn't want to get shut down in some states.

 

 

Do you even have a source that proves that .3% is won illegally ? Furthermore you seem to be assuming that every penny won by employees was done with an "insider" lineup. That's just so unfounded and nowhere even close to be proven. God.. you really stretched that "I read somewhere that .3% is won by insiders." 

 

As for blaming the sites for employees possibly winning money , I have a friend that is a high level employee . He is not allowed to play but I've heard that he does indeed play. There is no way I can think of that sites could ever prevent employees from playing one way or the other. All they need is a partner that does the betting. 

[CoachLite]

Yeah, I agree . It's gambling ; there is far too much luck involved .

I wonder how much involvement (read: promotion or collaboration) the NFL has with these leagues? Taking a cue from FIFA's corruption, this could be a real problem, a REAL problem.

[dw49]

This isn't the lottery is the point. .3% of all that money is won by using insider information to craft winning combinations. The number should have been zero if it was legit and they didn't want to get shut down in some states.

 

 

For the heck of it I went online and found the source where you quoted that .3% figure. You have the numbers correct that the source quoted. Problem is that it's really pretty lame and insignificant stuff. They don't even know if this figure was gross winnings or if that figure is winnings after what was bet is subtracted. Darren Rovall , who they are quoting is an ESPN sports business guy that probably understands about what a 10 year old would know. 

 

 

"Their data shows that Draft Kings employees have won 0.3% of the money" won at the site, Rovell said. "FanDuel has given out in prizes close to $2 billion, according to my calculations."

If DraftKings employees have indeed won 0.3% of nearly $2 billion, that would be close to $6 million won. Rovell put the number at "less than $10 million."

What is not known is if that is net winnings — accounting for losses also — or just the gross winnings.

That is a big difference, but it would also seem that either number is significant.

[bababooey]

The information they had is availible to anyone who has the time to research it. Im guessing if you work at a company dedicated to fantasy sports, you're going to have more time than the average person to research. It really isn't a big conspiracy

Wow I really screwed up spending all that money and time on a degree when I could have just studied fantasy football all day and won big.

[bababooey]

For the heck of it I went online and found the source where you quoted that .3% figure. You have the numbers correct that the source quoted. Problem is that it's really pretty lame and insignificant stuff. They don't even know if this figure was gross winnings or if that figure is winnings after what was bet is subtracted. Darren Rovall , who they are quoting is an ESPN sports business guy that probably understands about what a 10 year old would know.

"Their data shows that Draft Kings employees have won 0.3% of the money" won at the site, Rovell said. "FanDuel has given out in prizes close to $2 billion, according to my calculations."

If DraftKings employees have indeed won 0.3% of nearly $2 billion, that would be close to $6 million won. Rovell put the number at "less than $10 million."

What is not known is if that is net winnings — accounting for losses also — or just the gross winnings.

That is a big difference, but it would also seem that either number is significant.

I never said the number was incorrect. Rovell is a loser but it doesn't make this any less true. Check the NY times article about the sharks who are the real winners taking home the big money every week because they play thousands of entries a week. This is different than the guy who works at fan duel and sees who most people are picking that week so he picks someone else on draft kings in order to better his odds....

[jvan1973]

Wow I really screwed up spending all that money and time on a degree when I could have just studied fantasy football all day and won big.

Ok

[bababooey]

Ok

Sarcasm. The employees used insider information to win millions in prizes on the opposite site and they were caught and now are being retaliated against, not because the government wants to invade your life further.

[jvan1973]

Sarcasm. The employees used insider information to win millions in prizes on the opposite site and they were caught and now are being retaliated against, not because the government wants to invade your life further.

No they didn't. That was at no point proven. Do a little reading on the subject.

It also doesn't explain why online poker sites were also shut down. It also doesn't explain why only a few places nation wide has legalized gambling of any kind

[dw49]

I never said the number was incorrect. Rovell is a loser but it doesn't make this any less true. Check the NY times article about the sharks who are the real winners taking home the big money every week because they play thousands of entries a week. This is different than the guy who works at fan duel and sees who most people are picking that week so he picks someone else on draft kings in order to better his odds....

 

 

Of coarse the smart guys are going to break the fish and the average Joe's.

 

And I have no idea what you mean by stating that you never said the # was incorrect. What does that have to do with the number (.3% or 6 mill ) possibly being a gross payout rather than winnings ? 

[Narcosys]

You mean the fan duel employee didn't have access to see which players were being played the most by all the users and then used that knowledge to submit entries on Draft Kings that were solely based on knowing the odds of which combination of players weren't submitted and thus could increase his odds of winning? And then he opened the can of worms by accidentally posting a screen shot of the information that he used to win 300K on a rival site? I must have missed where that didn't happen.

This is what led to them not being allowed to participate in other sites and eventually become illegal- the fact that while they grew so big so quickly and unregulated they were able to make gobs of money from dopes by using insider information and got caught with it. Again, the employees of both sites won .3% of the time with that info and made millions off of it while it was legal. You can take your tin foil hat off if you think it's solely the government's fault for not allowing them to operate because they weren't getting a piece.

I still do not understand why it matters. I'm ok with them doing that because it is still dependant on those players actually performing. You said yourself they have only won .3% of the time. That means that 99.7% percent of the time the general public wins. I feel that is pretty good odds.

[DougDew]

The lottery is fair. Government keeps about 50% of the money wagered.   Sports betting "vig" is 5 to 10%. 

 

States use these billions in robbed revenue to fund education. So they actually kept their promise. Ummm... wrong.  

 

The state budgets for education don't go up with this increased revenue they stole from people too stupid to know they are being robbed. They just use that money and put it toward what was budgeted to begin with. Then they take that sucker money and give themselves big pensions and the best health care. So yes they kept their word but doing a neat little swap.

Actually, government pensions and health care benefits are much less lucrative than they used to be decades ago...before lotteries were invented.

Gambling can be an addiction, so most people think its a bit untoward that private companies and individuals running them position themselves to profit off of others' addictions; therefore, most things that are addictive have been deemed illegal, or at least controlled and regulated (like lotteries).

There is probably no benefit to society for making more things that can be addictive legal, more abundant, or less controlled. Doing so just benefits the people who produce and sell the stuff.

I believe New York also has horse racing and probably a state lottery. Those industries are controlled. At least they are supposed to be.

[jvan1973]

Actually, government pensions and health care benefits are much less lucrative than they used to be decades ago...before lotteries were invented.

Gambling can be an addiction, so most people think its a bit untoward that private companies and individuals running them position themselves to profit off of others' addictions; therefore, most things that are addictive have been deemed illegal, or at least controlled and regulated (like lotteries).

There is probably no benefit to society for making more things that can be addictive legal, more abundant, or less controlled. Doing so just benefits the people who produce and sell the stuff.

I believe New York also has horse racing and probably a state lottery. Those industries are controlled. At least they are supposed to be.

Cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine. Sky diving Lots of things can be associated with addiction. Addicts find a way until they seek help of some kind.

Also, how does "regulated" horse racing or the lottery help those with a gambling addiction?