Who covers Gronk and Edelman?

[BlazeDaring]

Full disclosure.  I'm a Patriots fan.  I visit every board before they play the Pats and see the same ideas every week.  Here are the facts.  If you put your best corner on Edelman and your second best corner and a safety on Gronk you will lose.  There are very few corners that can cover Edelman one on one and Davis certainly isn't one of them.  You can't chip Gronk off the line of scrimmage because they split him out.  You don't have a linebacker fast enough to cover him.  Bottom line is they present the hardest matchup issue in the NFL because it comes down to this.  Even if you dedicate your entire defense to stop them then you have a linebacker on Dion Lewis.  Won't work.  Or a nickel corner on Amendola.  Won't work.  And even with that you've only covered 4 guys.  If NE splits out with 5 then you have a lineback covering someone else.  Won't work.  Or they go with 4 wide and run the ball.  You've seen that before.  Only way to beat the Patriots short of being Denver or the Giants from years ago is to keep them off the field.  You need to run the ball, time management, score touchdowns instead of FGs and hold them to field goals when possible.  NE's biggest weakness is short yard running.  Blount isn't what he was and the line is beat up.  But unless you can put significant pressure on Brady with just 4 guys like Dallas was able to do in the first half I'm afraid its going to be a long night. 

[SDakColts]

So you have Werner and Walden starting because you think they will come out running, yet our ILBs will be Sio Moore and Clayton Geathers? If I'm the Pats I'd sure as hell be running on that defense. That's easy money.

I completely agree. We need our actual linebackers in on running downs to stop that run or Belichick will keep slamming the ball up the middle against undersized ILBs. The bad thing is they are going to notice we are going to match Geathers up on Gronk on 3rd downs so they are going to take full advantage to pass to Gronk on 1st and 2nd down while we have Jackson/Freeman or Jackson/Irving in the game. So I am thinking we need to keep Sio in as a coverage linebacker on 1st and 2nd down to at least have a ILB that has the athleticism to at least half way cover Gronk until Geathers comes in on 3rd down.

[ColtStronger]

Enlighten us, please.

It was a joke sir, sorry to offend you lol

[ColtStronger]

Full disclosure.  I'm a Patriots fan.  I visit every board before they play the Pats and see the same ideas every week.  Here are the facts.  If you put your best corner on Edelman and your second best corner and a safety on Gronk you will lose.  There are very few corners that can cover Edelman one on one and Davis certainly isn't one of them.  You can't chip Gronk off the line of scrimmage because they split him out.  You don't have a linebacker fast enough to cover him.  Bottom line is they present the hardest matchup issue in the NFL because it comes down to this.  Even if you dedicate your entire defense to stop them then you have a linebacker on Dion Lewis.  Won't work.  Or a nickel corner on Amendola.  Won't work.  And even with that you've only covered 4 guys.  If NE splits out with 5 then you have a lineback covering someone else.  Won't work.  Or they go with 4 wide and run the ball.  You've seen that before.  Only way to beat the Patriots short of being Denver or the Giants from years ago is to keep them off the field.  You need to run the ball, time management, score touchdowns instead of FGs and hold them to field goals when possible.  NE's biggest weakness is short yard running.  Blount isn't what he was and the line is beat up.  But unless you can put significant pressure on Brady with just 4 guys like Dallas was able to do in the first half I'm afraid its going to be a long night.

If Davis isn't one of them, then they don't exist!  Look at Davis' numbers last year and tell him he can't...  He has been banged up all year so his performance hasn't been top notch, so please don't point out anything like that, because it is uncharacteristic of him!

 

I feel Geathers is the prefect solution, but he is still very young and inexperienced.  Probably not going to get the job done this season, but wait until he matures a bit!

 

I know it sounds a bit absurd but I firmly believe Indy has the best offense in the league, but have dealt with MAJOR issues thus far.  Keep watching and wait til the end of the season.

 

All I'm saying is that it IS possible to beat the Pats.  Not an easy task by any means, nor do I think the Colts DEFINITELY will win, but I don't think it's going to be an easy W for NE this time around...

[chad72]

Just give Brady some "remember me" shots ala Gregg Williams, that is our best shot to win the game. Not the dirty shots (to clarify), but always make sure to get a hit close to the release of the ball. That will speed up the mental clock as the game goes on, and even if Gronk or Edelman beat the first 2-3 seconds of press coverage, you can only "hope" that speeds up the mental clock of Brady just like it does for most QBs and that he will release before they are completely ready. Keep him on the sidelines while on O with long drives and minimize possessions. Has to be a 60 minute game to even come close to beating the Pats. 

 

You cannot play them being afraid. Just line up like the Ravens, going out there with the mindset to beat them up, 11-on-11, for 60 minutes. They will get their punches, and we should make sure we get several to land too .

[Patrick Miller]

Imo our best chance is to keep Brady and gronk off the field as much as possible. Run the ball. limit their possessions. Otherwise they are going to steam roll us.

[Jhaze55]

 There are very few corners that can cover Edelman one on one and Davis certainly isn't one of them.  (Clipped the rest)

Why do you say that?

[CoachLite]

Somewhere along the lines of what I was thinking.  Though I probably was more to the tune of Geathers underneath Gronk and Sergio above.  We don't really have a corner I think we can put on Gronk aside from Vonte, but he definitely loses in the height category.  Better to try and have him take away Edelman.

 

I figure with Gronk, you pretty much always lose two guys.

Hopefully, mvbighead is not Greg Manusky because Sergio is with another team (somewhere in northern Florida, I think).

[CoachLite]

Imo our best chance is to keep Brady and gronk off the field as much as possible. Run the ball. limit their possessions. Otherwise they are going to steam roll us.

Lots of Miralax in their Gatorade would keep them off the field ... nevermind, we are not the Patriots.

[mvbighead]

Hopefully, mvbighead is not Greg Manusky because Sergio is with another team (somewhere in northern Florida, I think).

 

You're late to the party slick.  I already amended what I said.  I had meant Lowery.

 

In short, Lowery is currently a stop gap solution so I had not committed his name to memory.  I was trying to think of the safety opposite Adams.  My apologies for using the name of a previous safety.

[BlazeDaring]

Why do you say that?

Because Sherman matched up with him in the Super Bowl and couldn't cover him one on one.  I'm not saying Davis isn't a great corner.  My fault for not saying that.  He is.  But he's not in the Sherman, Revis category and one on one they can't cover him.  Honestly I think its more a product of Brady and the system.  I have no illusions that Edelman is the next coming of Jerry Rice but the offense suits him perfectly.  Just like it did with Welker.  I'm just saying if you leave Davis on an island with Edelman than you're going to see him catch a lot of passes.

[BlazeDaring]

If Davis isn't one of them, then they don't exist!  Look at Davis' numbers last year and tell him he can't...  He has been banged up all year so his performance hasn't been top notch, so please don't point out anything like that, because it is uncharacteristic of him!

 

I feel Geathers is the prefect solution, but he is still very young and inexperienced.  Probably not going to get the job done this season, but wait until he matures a bit!

 

I know it sounds a bit absurd but I firmly believe Indy has the best offense in the league, but have dealt with MAJOR issues thus far.  Keep watching and wait til the end of the season.

 

All I'm saying is that it IS possible to beat the Pats.  Not an easy task by any means, nor do I think the Colts DEFINITELY will win, but I don't think it's going to be an easy W for NE this time around...

We all have our opinions, that's what I love about message boards.  Everyone can express them but I don't see how you can say Indy has a better offense than NE.  NE has a better QB, TE and offensive line (granted that took a hit this week).  WR is close with maybe a slight edge to Indy but only slight and at RB I'll give you Gore right now but talk to me in December when Lewis and Blount who are much younger have fresher legs.  And most importantly look at the system.  NE has a proven system and it seems Indy only survives on 20 yard passes downfield.  Not much diversity.  NFL network did a big thing before Luck got hurt that they are one dimensional.

 

Davis is a very good corner.  I didn't give him enough praise in my original post.  That's my bad.  But he's not Sherman or Revis and look what Edelman did to Sherman in the superbowl.  I stand by what I said earlier.  Keep the offense off the field, keep it close and try to steal it in the 4th quarter. 

 

You all know Brady and Bill have been waiting for this game for months since Indy is where the whole deflategate scandal started so I would expect that Indy has to score at least 35 in order to have any chance.  Brady is looking to drop 50 and I don't see why he can't do it.  Too many weapons and too good of a scheme. 

[Superman]

Because Sherman matched up with him in the Super Bowl and couldn't cover him one on one.  I'm not saying Davis isn't a great corner.  My fault for not saying that.  He is.  But he's not in the Sherman, Revis category and one on one they can't cover him.  Honestly I think its more a product of Brady and the system.  I have no illusions that Edelman is the next coming of Jerry Rice but the offense suits him perfectly.  Just like it did with Welker.  I'm just saying if you leave Davis on an island with Edelman than you're going to see him catch a lot of passes.

 

Sherman isn't the same kind of corner as Davis, or Revis. He plays mostly zone, doesn't spent a lot of time on inside receivers, etc. He spent a total of 35 snaps in slot coverage all last season, including the playoffs. Regardless, in the SB, Sherman was only targeted on a pass to Edelman once, and it was incomplete. 

 

Davis against Edelman last year, in two games, saw 5 targets, allowed two catches, 11 yards, long of 8. 

 

I'd put Davis on Edelman all game long, inside, outside, wherever, in a lot of press. I'd bracket Gronk 80% of the time, and I'd spy the backs with an ILB. Hopefully, Brady won't have quick passes to his best players (all of whom are great after the catch), and hopefully the pass rush can start to affect him. I certainly don't think Edelman is so good that no one can cover him.

[BullsColtsFan1]

Nobody will be able to cover either if the Colts can't put any pressure on Brady. 

[Smash Mouth]

To me Edelman is a bigger problem than Gronkowski. Edelman get's more explosive plays than anybody on that team in my opinion. Anytime they think somebody is able to press him or get their hands on him they motion him accross the formation.  Or they start running all kind of rub routes to create some separation.  I hate him with an intense passion, but the guy is so quick it's just a lot to deal with.  Darius Butler is a bad match up on him in my eyes. You can put Vonta on him I guess but I'm not sure if that will create other problems.  The biggest thing we need in this game is for our offense to sustain drives, control the TOP and score some points. If we've got to face them, let it be on a limited basis.  I think a mixture of Lowery and Geathers should do a decent to good enough job on Gronk.

if the DL and LBs don't put some hits on Brady and stop the run, it doesn't matter who is covering Edelman and Gronk.  I'm not sure the Lowery is strong enough and Geathers is just a rookie.  The Colts have to double Gronk and man-up everyone else including Edelman.  Vontae has to cover Edleman, he's turned into a #1 WR.

[James Harden]

No brainer.. Davis on Edelman. That guy is explosive and IMO is more dangerous than Gronk. Gronk is a matchup nightmare so mix and match depending on situation. If we can shut down those 2 and get pressure to Brady than the Pats O will have a tough time of scoring on us. I'm dare say put a linebacker on Gronk. Gronk is is a big target and not as fast so put a linebacker on him. Sio Moore is an X-factor. He can attack the ball and hit hard with attitude. Brute force vs Brute force 

[Jhaze55]

Because Sherman matched up with him in the Super Bowl and couldn't cover him one on one.  I'm not saying Davis isn't a great corner.  My fault for not saying that.  He is.  But he's not in the Sherman, Revis category and one on one they can't cover him.  Honestly I think its more a product of Brady and the system.  I have no illusions that Edelman is the next coming of Jerry Rice but the offense suits him perfectly.  Just like it did with Welker.  I'm just saying if you leave Davis on an island with Edelman than you're going to see him catch a lot of passes.

Fair enough. I don't know enough about Edelman to form an opinion about him anyways lol. That's why I asked.

 

I do think the defense would be better suited putting a healthy Davis on him, though. The rest of the secondary lacks the amount of talent needed to use more than one guy on him. I think he'll hold his own vs. Edelman, as he has before.

[ProblChld32]

Full disclosure.  I'm a Patriots fan.  I visit every board before they play the Pats and see the same ideas every week.  Here are the facts.  If you put your best corner on Edelman and your second best corner and a safety on Gronk you will lose.  There are very few corners that can cover Edelman one on one and Davis certainly isn't one of them.  You can't chip Gronk off the line of scrimmage because they split him out.  You don't have a linebacker fast enough to cover him.  Bottom line is they present the hardest matchup issue in the NFL because it comes down to this.  Even if you dedicate your entire defense to stop them then you have a linebacker on Dion Lewis.  Won't work.  Or a nickel corner on Amendola.  Won't work.  And even with that you've only covered 4 guys.  If NE splits out with 5 then you have a lineback covering someone else.  Won't work.  Or they go with 4 wide and run the ball.  You've seen that before.  Only way to beat the Patriots short of being Denver or the Giants from years ago is to keep them off the field.  You need to run the ball, time management, score touchdowns instead of FGs and hold them to field goals when possible.  NE's biggest weakness is short yard running.  Blount isn't what he was and the line is beat up.  But unless you can put significant pressure on Brady with just 4 guys like Dallas was able to do in the first half I'm afraid its going to be a long night. 

 

Are you serious?, Davis will wash Edelman. Edelman is only effective when he is not touched he turns into a wuss in press coverage. I promise you Davis can make him invisible when matched one on one. why do you think Edelman moves around so much? Why do you think NE runs so many rub and pick plays with Edelman? because that is the only way he can get open and be effective. He sucks against Good press cover corners and Davis is one of the best Playing Press man and off. Stop trolling on this forum man.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Nobody covers Gronk. I expect they'll have a CB and Geathers on him. Vontae on Edelman, Toler on Amendola

then who covers lewis out of the backfield

[BlueShoe]

Here are the facts.  If you put your best corner on Edelman and your second best corner and a safety on Gronk you will lose.  There are very few corners that can cover Edelman one on one and Davis certainly isn't one of them.  

 

I thought brady had no weapons?

 

It must depend on what argument any given pats fan is having.

 

No need to quote the rest of your post because it is absurd. 

 

No need to follow-up. The prosecution rests. 

[Coffeedrinker]

It really depends on the pass rush.  If, early in the game the pass rush is getting close to Brady and forcing him to hurry a few throws (or makes him start whining to the officials) then you play man on their outside receivers and use 3 LBers and the safeties to play zone.

 

If the pass rush from 4 is not getting to Brady, then you play man on the outside receivers, use a safety and an ILB (or Geathers if he plays that role) to bracket Gronk, blitz one of the ILB consistently drop the non rush LB to cover the short zone on Edelman's side and bracket him with the other safety.

Either way they have to test the LT taking over for Solder, if they are not sending two at him every time in the first 1-1/2 quarters then Manusky has a serious problem.

[ColtStronger]

Because Sherman matched up with him in the Super Bowl and couldn't cover him one on one.  I'm not saying Davis isn't a great corner.  My fault for not saying that.  He is.  But he's not in the Sherman, Revis category and one on one they can't cover him.  Honestly I think its more a product of Brady and the system.  I have no illusions that Edelman is the next coming of Jerry Rice but the offense suits him perfectly.  Just like it did with Welker.  I'm just saying if you leave Davis on an island with Edelman than you're going to see him catch a lot of passes.

First of all Davis had better numbers than Sherman last season!  Second, Davis has shut down WAY better WR's before!  IMO, it's better to let Butler defend Edelman if he is in the slot.  If he is on the outside (Davis' corner) Edelman may get a few catches, but he will be limited, if Davis is back to his old self!

[SurfinKal]

Nobody will be able to cover either if the Colts can't put any pressure on Brady. 

I agree 100%. The problem is we havent been able to generate any kind of pass rush this season and i dont think it will start on Sunday.

[Stephen]

Put vontae on gronk and double team edelman

[B~Town]

I would go more Nickel/Dime and have a defense that looks sort of like this 

 

                     Lowery                        Adams

 

 

Davis                                                                        Butler                               Toler

 

                       Jackson/Sio                Geathers

 

       

 

     Werner/Mathis     Langford/Anderson       Parry        Walden/Cole

 

 

basically a Strong Dime package bring Geathers in as a dime backer to match up Gronk at all times and Butler in the Slot can easily help geathers double Gronk, and or Chip him. or Bring down Adams to help Geathers and Leave Lowery single high if they go three wide. I like the Front 4, now before everyone comes for my neck i have Werner starting (if he is healthy that is) because of his ability against the run. I think we all know they will come out trying to establish the run so we need our strongest run stoppers in and those 4 guys Werner, Anderson, Parry, Walden are just that. you can bring Mathis, Cole and a Newsome in on obvious passing situations. I think this defense gives us alot of flexibility. 

That is how I roll in madden   works great in a video game

[EDubreuil]

As a Patriots fan, I agree that the Colts NEED to simply keep the Patriots offense off the field. Forget about individual coverage of Gronk and Edelman, because if you focus on them, Lewis will smoke you, or maybe they'll find Amendola open on a long pass while Gronk and Edelman are double-covered underneath. Sometimes the Pats will use Gronk and Edelman as decoys, depending on the situation.

 

Even though I'm a Patriots fan, I sometimes HATE to use any of their players on my fantasy football teams. They seldom utilize the same players every week, it always changes who they feature.

 

Good Luck to the Colts and their fans!

[tweezy32]

Because Sherman matched up with him in the Super Bowl and couldn't cover him one on one.  I'm not saying Davis isn't a great corner.  My fault for not saying that.  He is.  But he's not in the Sherman, Revis category and one on one they can't cover him.  Honestly I think its more a product of Brady and the system.  I have no illusions that Edelman is the next coming of Jerry Rice but the offense suits him perfectly.  Just like it did with Welker.  I'm just saying if you leave Davis on an island with Edelman than you're going to see him catch a lot of passes.

Davis is better than Sherman

[JH8788]

Because Sherman matched up with him in the Super Bowl and couldn't cover him one on one.  I'm not saying Davis isn't a great corner.  My fault for not saying that.  He is.  But he's not in the Sherman, Revis category and one on one they can't cover him.  Honestly I think its more a product of Brady and the system.  I have no illusions that Edelman is the next coming of Jerry Rice but the offense suits him perfectly.  Just like it did with Welker.  I'm just saying if you leave Davis on an island with Edelman than you're going to see him catch a lot of passes.

Ok let's get some things cleared up. First of all, Brady threw it at Sherman once MAYBE twice & the 1 completion he did get on him was for a mere 6 yards, cause had Sherman shadowed him the whole game, I guarantee you Edelman doesn't have 9 for 109 & the GW TD since Sherman would've put the clamps on him. Also you say that Vontae can't guard Edelman????? You out your damn mind if you believe that. If Vontae does shadow him all game, be ready to hear very little from Mr. Edelman, cause Vontae is gonna give him all types of fits to say the least.

 

Now let's talk about your CBs. Who's gonna draw the assignment of Hilton? Butler? Good luck with that since I don't think BB is gonna double him like he did last year, because if that happens, all of our other pass catchers will get off & NE will leave Lucas Oil Stadium with their 1st loss of the season come Sunday night.

[Jay Kirk]

I have not seen anyone smother the big lunkhead when he is healthy.  If we do not shadow him, he will tear us up.

 

Edelman is a pain in the buttox!!  Press coverage...knock him around.

 

Wasn't there a guy named Vontae that held Sammy Watkins to 'nuttin?'  

 

IMO you jam Edle and Tweedle , oops  I mean Amo lol at the line ​. Shadow Gronk. Pass rush you get to Brady make it count, not dirty just rattle his eye teeth clear to his toes ! DL hands up when hes releasing ball. 12th man make it impossible for him to hear. Don't stop if we make a mistake and fall behind . Please no boobirds !

[coltsfeva]

Brady/Gronk/Eldelman/Blount/ can't hurt us if they are on the bench.

 

The improved O-Line play of the Colts has been overlooked: The Colts held J.J. Watt to one tackle and ran on Watt, Wolfork and Cushing last week.

 

If the O-line plays well by protecting Luck and exploiting the Pat's weakness (run defense), it will at the same time, help the defense by keeping Brady and company off the field. 

 

I find it funny how the National media has underestimated the Colts, because the Pats have been playing so well. Time to "Shock the World"!

 

GO COLTS!!!

[krunk]

if the DL and LBs don't put some hits on Brady and stop the run, it doesn't matter who is covering Edelman and Gronk. I'm not sure the Lowery is strong enough and Geathers is just a rookie. The Colts have to double Gronk and man-up everyone else including Edelman. Vontae has to cover Edleman, he's turned into a #1 WR.

Vonta on Edleman is probably what we will see. We had Vonta on Gronk in the AFC championship and he stopped him pretty good. Now that we have a sizeable guy at the Dime Linebacker in Geathers who is really a safety, then you add Dwight Lowery who is pretty good at covering tight ends and shut down Jimmy Graham last year we can focus those two on Gronk along with some brackets when we go zone. Pass rush is my biggest concern. I want to see some well timed blitzes from those ILB mainly Sio who brings the heat when we send him.

[BrentMc11]

IMO you jam Edle and Tweedle , oops  I mean Amo lol at the line ​. Shadow Gronk. Pass rush you get to Brady make it count, not dirty just rattle his eye teeth clear to his toes ! DL hands up when hes releasing ball. 12th man make it impossible for him to hear. Don't stop if we make a mistake and fall behind . Please no boobirds !

I just really feel without Solder, Mathis is going to bring the heat.  If Walden gets to him his teeth are going to be rattled for sure.

[GlueFactory]

Why do you say that?

the fact that almost all WR's have had a field day against the Colts this year?

 

Edited October 16, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[GlueFactory]

the problem for the colts is that in every game so far this year, the opponent has had a WR that could not be stopped

 

I don't see why anyone would assume that this trend would suddenly change against the pats.

 

Brady finds the open target and if there isn't, it's because the running back of the day is too busy moving the pile

[BlazeDaring]

Are you serious?, Davis will wash Edelman. Edelman is only effective when he is not touched he turns into a wuss in press coverage. I promise you Davis can make him invisible when matched one on one. why do you think Edelman moves around so much? Why do you think NE runs so many rub and pick plays with Edelman? because that is the only way he can get open and be effective. He sucks against Good press cover corners and Davis is one of the best Playing Press man and off. Stop trolling on this forum man.

Davis can't cover him one on one but even if he could then why would NE allows that to happen?  you talk like its a knock against Edelman if they put him in motion and run picks for him.  That's how you get him open.  and even with those picks and motion, a great corner could cover him.  Davis is good.  Not great.

[krunk]

the fact that almost all WR's have had a field day against the Colts this year?

 

 

 

No they haven't.  Colts secondary has been injured the vast majority of the season, the starters have barely even played one game together and in that one game Vonta had a foot injury that limited him immensely.  If anyone was getting burnt it was the 4th 5th and 6 stringers we had in there.

[The Lucky Neck Beard]

the fact that almost all WR's have had a field day against the Colts this year?

 

uhhhh...  I think the Colts have been playing with their 5-6 Cornerbacks...  our top 4 have been out.  So of course we have been torched, we have had the JV cornerbacks out there  

 

Our top two finally made it back last game and shook off the rust.  This is the first game we have a mostly healthy Defense. Interested to see how it's game planned against...  

[BostonIrishGuy]

What makes these two guys so great is the ability to find ways to get open and their rapport with Tommy.  Edelman is really quick and shifty but he's also WICKED smart.  This kid will always find a way to get open.  Look at the Super Bowl performance against the Seahawks.  He took the Seahawks best shot, but still found a way to have a monster game.

 

Gronk, well he's out of this world.  He's an impossible cover, due to his height and size.  He's a man among boys out there and it shows. Going to be a tough cover for any team really.

 

Complete matchup nightmares for defensive coordinators out there. 

[Superman]

What makes these two guys so great is the ability to find ways to get open and their rapport with Tommy.  Edelman is really quick and shifty but he's also WICKED smart.  This kid will always find a way to get open.  Look at the Super Bowl performance against the Seahawks.  He took the Seahawks best shot, but still found a way to have a monster game.

 

Gronk, well he's out of this world.  He's an impossible cover, due to his height and size.  He's a man among boys out there and it shows. Going to be a tough cover for any team really.

 

Complete matchup nightmares for defensive coordinators out there. 

 

Both of these guys are really good.

 

Would just point out that the Seahawks basically had no pass rushers in the SB. Not to take anything away from the game Edelman had, but that was a factor. We don't have a great pass rush either, but hopefully we can muster up something.

[JimJaime]

Better yet who covers Lewis out of the backfield? He been amazing the first 4 games.