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Dark_Indy

The Patriots pre-game thread -- Week 6 (merge)

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I would agree with that. I don't usually get fired up for a game until late in the week. For this one, I was overlooking the Dallas game and just wanting this one to come as fast as it could.

 

I think this is going to go down one of two ways, the Patriots win them both, but in one of two ways. 1. We are talking about epic blowout the likes of which the NFL rarely sees. 50 burgers will be envious. or 2. It won't be as high scoring as I would like it to be, Colts may play the game of their lives, but they still come short and still give up 35+ to Patriots.

 

There is no scenario where I see Colts winning this game, just as I didn't see that happening in the last two Patriots games. Of course, I could be wrong, but going with the averages and trends, this one is going to be a nightmare for Colts.

 

You are SOOOOOO wrong !!!  I see many scenarios where the Colts win !!!  Just because you don't doesn't mean a thing !!!

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No browner, no revis, no dennard, no Arrington, no fletcher. No corners. Malcolm butler is overrated lol

They're ranked 12th against the pass so they are doing something right (starts up front). My concern is our secondary.

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While holding Foster to a 2.2 avg is commendable, you do realize he had groin surgery on Aug 7th, missed the first 3 games of the season and only had 8 carries in week 4 against the Falcons. He's certainly not at 100%. Just trying to add some context.

He was so hurt they ran him 19 times on top of 7 to 9 passes. Wasn't that hurt. Nice try but we've been playing great run D all season. We've given up a 100 yard rusher from running backs once and Yeldon barely got that.

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They're ranked 12th against the pass so they are doing something right (starts up front). My concern is our secondary.

Those games they played against the Jags and Cowboys were a big help to them. Both very toothless offenses and to be honest the Steelers defense could not get off the field which leaves the Patriots defense on the bench. I'd like to see them on the field for a little bit longer. Personnel wise I think we are the best team they've faced. If we are executing right I think we can expose them. Pittsburgh was missing some personnel and they went up and down the field however they just kept shooting themselves in the foot in one way or another.

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You are SOOOOOO wrong !!!  I see many scenarios where the Colts win !!!  Just because you don't doesn't mean a thing !!!

Please share. I'm open for discussion!

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Those games they played against the Jags and Cowboys were a big help to them. Both very toothless offenses and to be honest the Steelers defense could not get off the field which leaves the Patriots defense on the bench. I'd like to see them on the field for a little bit longer. Personnel wise I think we are the best team they've faced. If we are executing right I think we can expose them. Pittsburgh was missing some personnel and they went up and down the field however they just kept shooting themselves in the foot in one way or another.

I don't disagree with any of this. Frankly, our offense needs to sustain drives to keep the defense off the field. We should just about be at full strength defensively for this game. As long as the defense doesn't spend too much time on the field (due to limited time of possession by our offense), then we should be OK.

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I think there will always be people open. I think it's more contingent on if they can effectively run the ball, the OLs ability to protect Luck and Luck's ability to stop being his own worst nightmare vs the Patriots. One thing they cannot do is turn the ball over. Even if the Patriots miraculously turn the ball over twice, they can still score 40. If the Colts turn the ball over they're done.

I think the Colts can manage to put up 30 points, 300 - 400 yards on the Patriots but still get bludgeoned by 20 points if they turn the ball over. They are going to have to play very well, hopefully the D can somehow manage to play a phenomenal game. I think they can contain the run this year unlike years past, but Edelman and Gronk are going to be incredibly difficult to stop.

I just can't really fathom this D not giving up 35-40 points.

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What they did was have two linebackers in the whole game. They played with the nickel and dime personnel because we had no running game.

I'd say BB switches it up and takes away Frank Gore, but who knows he always throws something unexpected.

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What they did was have two linebackers in the whole game. They played with the nickel and dime personnel because we had no running game.

I'd say BB switches it up and takes away Frank Gore, but who knows he always throws something unexpected.

Easier said than done. The run defense has been a recurring issue for them this year. They are giving up around 4.7 yards per carry and they haven't shown me any major improvements to make me think Bellichick is going to whip something out of his butt and fix it for our game. I thought they improved a little bit against Dallas but honestly when you look at it it wasn't that great. Joseph Randle ran for 60 yards on 15 carries which is 4 yards a carry. And he did this with them keying on the run. They did not even have to worry much about the passing game. We've run the ball well against some beast fronts this year. I just can't see this Pats front shutting us down if we stick with the run like we have been doing as of late.

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I think there will always be people open. I think it's more contingent on if they can effectively run the ball, the OLs ability to protect Luck and Luck's ability to stop being his own worst nightmare vs the Patriots. One thing they cannot do is turn the ball over. Even if the Patriots miraculously turn the ball over twice, they can still score 40. If the Colts turn the ball over they're done.

I think the Colts can manage to put up 30 points, 300 - 400 yards on the Patriots but still get bludgeoned by 20 points if they turn the ball over. They are going to have to play very well, hopefully the D can somehow manage to play a phenomenal game. I think they can contain the run this year unlike years past, but Edelman and Gronk are going to be incredibly difficult to stop.

I just can't really fathom this D not giving up 35-40 points.

Not hard for me to fathom if we sustain drives on offense. Give the D some rest and keep them fresh. Even in that Jonas Gray game last year it didn't get out of hand score wise till the 4th quarter and we played terrible.

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Easier said than done. The run defense has been a recurring issue for them this year. They are giving up around 4.7 yards per carry and they haven't shown me any major improvements to make me think Bellichick is going to whip something out of his butt and fix it for our game. I thought they improved a little bit against Dallas but honestly when you look at it it wasn't that great. Joseph Randle ran for 60 yards on 15 carries which is 4 yards a carry. And he did this with them keying on the run. They did not even have to worry much about the passing game. We've run the ball well against some beast fronts this year. I just can't see this Pats front shutting us down if we stick with the run like we have been doing as of late.

.

Then our game plan has to be to control the clock. Run the ball efficiently and hit the short to intermediate game. Keeping their offense off the field. If we play the arms race type of game, we will be in for a long night.

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Not hard for me to fathom if we sustain drives on offense. Give the D some rest and keep them fresh. Even in that Jonas Gray game last year it didn't get out of hand score wise till the 4th quarter and we played terrible.

True indeed, it seems like with regards to the first half the games have been pretty good vs the Pats from what I recall.

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.

Then our game plan has to be to control the clock. Run the ball efficiently and hit the short to intermediate game. Keeping their offense off the field. If we play the arms race type of game, we will be in for a long night.

Control the clock but not just for the sake of running out time. Each time we get in that red zone we have to score 7. If not 7 then nothing less than 3. Can't turn the ball over and we have to get a couple stops on D. I like our chances if we stay away from the self inflicted stuff like the penalties, turnovers, and hopefully we can obtain good field position.

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There's going to be some opportunities for us coming off play action if we do this thing right. Look at how Bellichick and his coordinators speak about Gore on Colts.com. You can tell they have a more than decent amount of concern with how they are going to deal with him. That running game is going to give us the separation we need in the passing game. I'm especially interested to see how much we hit up Andre Johnson over the middle coming off run action. Hit him up over the seam, get him on top of little guys like Mccourty. There's some match UPS to be had out there if we do this thing the right way.

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Twice today (Colts.com and Dwayne Allen show) TY Hilton has spouted off about "knowing" the Patriots are going to double and triple cover him.

As I recall, Bellichik does not seem to game plan around TY Hilton. Hilton has been ineffective if not invisible in the 4 games v Patriots. (Someone will point out if I'm missing a good performance). He's so small, "jammable" at LOS that I think Bellichik takes this approach (as is common with his coverage on most receivers).

Watching "Do Your Job" on the 2014 Patriots, I specifically noticed no one on the Patriots staff gameplaning around Hilton.

I sure wish TY would have a breakout performance against New England.

Thoughts? Discussion?

if my memory serves me right (I'm too lazy to find the stats from previous games) but t.y has actually been really good against the Patriots in all his games besides the afcg. He has commended lots of respect from bill wich is why he was double and tripled teamed last year. Also you don't get the production he has if he's as easy too jam as you say he is.

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Twice today (Colts.com and Dwayne Allen show) TY Hilton has spouted off about "knowing" the Patriots are going to double and triple cover him.

As I recall, Bellichik does not seem to game plan around TY Hilton. Hilton has been ineffective if not invisible in the 4 games v Patriots. (Someone will point out if I'm missing a good performance). He's so small, "jammable" at LOS that I think Bellichik takes this approach (as is common with his coverage on most receivers).

Watching "Do Your Job" on the 2014 Patriots, I specifically noticed no one on the Patriots staff gameplaning around Hilton.

I sure wish TY would have a breakout performance against New England.

Thoughts? Discussion?

In T.Y.'s 1st 2 games vs NE when he wasn't doubled, he had 100 & 103 yds & 2 TDs respectively. Last 2 games vs NE when he was doubled, he had only 24 & 36 yds. It was also mentioned him being doubled when he was voted amongst the top 100 players 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWijvv63aoQ

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In T.Y.'s 1st 2 games vs NE when he wasn't doubled, he had 100 & 103 yds & 2 TDs respectively. Last 2 games vs NE when he was doubled, he had only 24 & 36 yds. It was also mentioned him being doubled when he was voted amongst the top 100 players

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWijvv63aoQ

Thanks for looking those numbers up for me lmao

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Each game has its own identity but really our ability to beat NE depends on our offense not turning the ball over and converting on 3rd down. We cant turn this into a shootout and come out with guns blazing.....We wont win that battle. We have to be efficient with a couple explosive plays along the way, We cant go looking for the big play every down or we will get ran out of our own building again

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TY gets doubled safety help they PI him all over the field defensive rubs so to speak it never get called its bull.i remember him burning talib a couple times 100+ yds but only like 4 catches. However this year is a little different. our receiving core is obviously way different. Feed Frank. Period. I just wish we had 1 more RB that stepped up by now. We need 2 serviceable backs. This is how u beat the Patriots (offensively) Sustained drives. staying in bounds and every time u get the ball hold it for as long as you can. 7-8 minute drives. draw plays, stay away from the pitches NE is very disciplined at setting the edge. old fashioned running pulling a guard to block outside and TE support. Play action to Fleener in between the numbers 3 step drops, short crosses and slants. do that through the first half and when they go to half time and make adjustments. first possession of the 3rd u use the same scheme. they will be playing you for that style of ball very next possession you change up. go aggressive downfield 7 step drop, RB or TE to help pick-up. the D line will be slower after the first 35-40 min. and our o line seems to play a little better in the second half. they will try to quick adjust and frankly I don't see how this secondary can double TY as well as cover Moncrief Johnson and Dorsett. if they only bring  3 or 4 the RB or TE runs a route, likely getting wide open in the middle of the field. We can not turn the ball over, obviously. The Defense will have there hands full.. our best defense is our offense SUSTAINING drives. keep brady and Edelman and gronk on the sideline we can win this game but we will have to execute flawlessly

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No browner, no revis, no dennard, no Arrington, no fletcher. No corners. Malcolm butler is overrated lol

 

Be careful of putting your eggs in this basket. While it's true that the secondary is weaker than last year with the loss of Revis, there are 2 things to remember:

 

1) Butler can play. He's no Revis...but he's a better than average cornerback in this league right now. He's not giving it up when it's thrown near him.

 

2) Pass rush...the Pats clearly compensated for the weakening of the DB by going heavy on pass rushers. So they are getting a ton more pressure on the passer than they have in years past, which is helping the iinexperienced secondary. The biggest mismatch of the game might be the Pats pass rush vs the Colts O-line.

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No browner, no revis, no dennard, no Arrington, no fletcher. No corners. Malcolm butler is overrated lol

Collectively they have been better than the Colts Dbs of late.

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Be careful of putting your eggs in this basket. While it's true that the secondary is weaker than last year with the loss of Revis, there are 2 things to remember:

1) Butler can play. He's no Revis...but he's a better than average cornerback in this league right now. He's not giving it up when it's thrown near him.

2) Pass rush...the Pats clearly compensated for the weakening of the DB by going heavy on pass rushers. So they are getting a ton more pressure on the passer than they have in years past, which is helping the iinexperienced secondary. The biggest mismatch of the game might be the Pats pass rush vs the Colts O-line.

I'm not sure how clear it is with regards to the Pass rush of the Pats. All the opponents have been back up tier passers other than Rothlessberger and people get hits on him all the time. He just doesn't always go down. We are not even really playing a whole lot of bombs away 5 to 7 step ball right now. We have morphed into a team that relies on the run, quick high percentage throws and play action passing. I don't know if there will be time for your guys to get there. We've schemed up a number of things to negate pass rushers. Not sure if I agree with the mismatch comments. As for Butler he is a scrappy guy but we will be making some plays in him. We've got a couple people they will have to deal with so we will see.

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Collectively they have been better than the Colts Dbs of late.

The colts starters have barely been on the field as a collective.

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Those games they played against the Jags and Cowboys were a big help to them. Both very toothless offenses and to be honest the Steelers defense could not get off the field which leaves the Patriots defense on the bench. I'd like to see them on the field for a little bit longer. Personnel wise I think we are the best team they've faced. If we are executing right I think we can expose them. Pittsburgh was missing some personnel and they went up and down the field however they just kept shooting themselves in the foot in one way or another.

You are basing this on the skill positions I take?  You are probably right as Gore and your receivers are probably the most talented although I would put the Bills up there too. The issue is your Oline is going to have issues with our front 7 which is the strength of this team. Collins and Sheard are coming on like beasts along with Easley and Jones on the line. I think as usual per our match ups the Pats will dominate the LOS both ways.

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The colts starters have barely been on the field as a collective.

True, I was just pointing out that the Pats dbs have done a pretty good job compared to the Colts. To say that the Pats don't have any corners, like that poster did, is just flat out inaccurate.

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You are basing this on the skill positions I take?  You are probably right as Gore and your receivers are probably the most talented although I would put the Bills up there too. The issue is your Oline is going to have issues with our front 7 which is the strength of this team. Collins and Sheard are coming on like beasts along with Easley and Jones on the line. I think as usual per our match ups the Pats will dominate the LOS both ways.

 

Good comment, but AM I'm still waiting to see the dominance from the Pats on the ground.  They still allow quite a bit to opponents running the football to me.  They looked a bit better against the Cowboys but Randle still avg. 4 yards a carry even with the Pats paying full attention to the run.  I just feel confident because we've played some pretty beastly fronts this year between the Jets, Bills, and the Texans.  The running game was always there, the numbers may not show it in terms of 100 yard rushers and what not, but it's more a product of us getting pass happy and going away from what was working.  Gore has been running very well when we've made the commitments.  Committing to the run had been our issue early in the season.  I haven't seen a game we've played this year where we've been over matched on the ground and that's especially true against the 3-4 hybrid type teams.  I'll admit we had a little issue against the Jags for some reason but that's a different style of defense and they came into the game top 3 in defending the run.

 

The exciting thing is we've been making the commitment more and more to the point that we've changed our identity to more of a play action passing style with high percentage low risk throws.  Don't get me wrong we still take our shots down the field of course.  But we are getting the ball out much faster and scheming things to negate the pass rush.    I like that formula and IF we stick to it I feel we'll make some plays against your boys. I also have to mention that the 2 guards we've placed in the interior(Mewhort and Thornton) have performed much better than the bums we had in there at the beggining of the season.   As always New England is a quality opponent but we'll see on Sunday....

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True, I was just pointing out that the Pats dbs have done a pretty good job compared to the Colts. To say that the Pats don't have any corners, like that poster did, is just flat out inaccurate.

 

 

They have guys that battle pretty good.  They don't have to be great because of the offense, just get a couple stops or a couple turnovers and it's a high likelihood Brady and Co are going to dial up the end zone.

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Easier said than done. The run defense has been a recurring issue for them this year. They are giving up around 4.7 yards per carry and they haven't shown me any major improvements to make me think Bellichick is going to whip something out of his butt and fix it for our game. I thought they improved a little bit against Dallas but honestly when you look at it it wasn't that great. Joseph Randle ran for 60 yards on 15 carries which is 4 yards a carry. And he did this with them keying on the run. They did not even have to worry much about the passing game. We've run the ball well against some beast fronts this year. I just can't see this Pats front shutting us down if we stick with the run like we have been doing as of late.

I don't see them shutting down Gore either!  Although BB has praised Gore for being at the top of his game, "looking really good".  He also knows the big play ability of TY Hilton.  Without the secondary of last season, I don't see how he will limit everybody!  I look for Donte Moncrief to continue to be a huge part of the gameplan.  He creates too many matchup issues when he's in!  Also, Phillip Dorsett. 

 

On defense, I look for BB to establish the run and control the TOP.  Hopefully the Colts new front 3 can continue to have success in that department!  My main concern is the CB's if they're actually healthy.  Last week was the first game they all played together.  Both Vontae and Greg were banged up moderately, and it will be interesting if they're back to their old selves.  If the secondary does their job, I think the LB's will have a little bit better success blitizing!  These 2 areas of the defense, and having 1 WR/TE step up (not named TY Hilton or Andre Johnson) is what will be the deciding factor will be, IMO

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I don't see them shutting down Gore either!  Although BB has praised Gore for being at the top of his game, "looking really good".  He also knows the big play ability of TY Hilton.  Without the secondary of last season, I don't see how he will limit everybody!  I look for Donte Moncrief to continue to be a huge part of the gameplan.  He creates too many matchup issues when he's in!  Also, Phillip Dorsett. 

 

On defense, I look for BB to establish the run and control the TOP.  Hopefully the Colts new front 3 can continue to have success in that department!  My main concern is the CB's if they're actually healthy.  Last week was the first game they all played together.  Both Vontae and Greg were banged up moderately, and it will be interesting if they're back to their old selves.  If the secondary does their job, I think the LB's will have a little bit better success blitizing!  These 2 areas of the defense, and having 1 WR/TE step up (not named TY Hilton or Andre Johnson) is what will be the deciding factor will be, IMO

 

 

I actually think there are some matchups we can hit on out there with Andre.  I just think we'll do well to copy that game plan from last week.  Spread the ball to our play makers including the use of the backs in the passing game, run the football a lot, play action short and deep, control the TOP and make sure we score on each of our opportunities to do so.  Whoever the open guy is you get him the football.  Don't spend too much time trying to get T.Y. the football if it ain't there.  Somebodies open, get the guy the darn ball!

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You are basing this on the skill positions I take?  You are probably right as Gore and your receivers are probably the most talented although I would put the Bills up there too. The issue is your Oline is going to have issues with our front 7 which is the strength of this team. Collins and Sheard are coming on like beasts along with Easley and Jones on the line. I think as usual per our match ups the Pats will dominate the LOS both ways.

I'm not too confident in pass protection, but run blocking is fine.  Same thing with the defense, stopping the run is great, but the pass rush is much to be desired.  However they're good reasons for why on both ends!  The OL was changed Week 3 I believe.  Mewhort went back to G.  Reitz is now RT.  This has definitely made a difference in protecting the QB.  Not where I would like them to be, but on the right track.

 

On defense, last week was the first game Butler, Toler, and Davis ALL played together!  At one point, we had the 4th 5th and 6th CB's playing (I believe against the Jets, when Davis went out with a concussion, maybe against the Titans though).  I think that has been a big reason we haven't had a pass rush.  Another reason is that Mathis missed the first couple and was eased back in.

 

Many things going on in the beginning of the season, distractions of Grigs Vs. Pagano feud, starting out 0-2, injuries, penalties, turnovers, all working against this team.  I am hoping this is starting to turn and take shape of what was expected. If the tables are turning and the Colts are headed in the right direction, I do believe the Pats will have their hands full! 

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Hey Colts fans, I'm gonna give you a heads up. The fans on the Cowboys forum have been complaining the Patriots were cheating all day last week. How? Illegal pick plays. They said the Patriots were called for 1, but got away with about 20. They have no less than two threads on the subject.

 

According to some, the Patriots haven't played a fair game since 1999.

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No browner, no revis, no dennard, no Arrington, no fletcher. No corners. Malcolm butler is overrated lol

And yet they will need none of those guys to beat the Colts. I won't LOL though.

 

If you think Butler is overrated, you haven't watched his play this year. His size makes for a safety, and yet he's out there on the corner breaking up plays left and right. I'm pleasantly surprised in his game. Also, that defense is getting better each week if you haven't noticed.

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