Thoughts on the O- line?

[dudeski]

I didn't see the game so, this comment is just regarding your post. I just wanted to point out that MH dropped back 47 times, if Holmes made two mistakes that is a 95% grade for pass blocking. That is really good.

you know how it works. An olineman can never get beat or he was horrible. If a cb gives up a couple passes he was horrible. A wr that drops a pass is garbage

[SDakColts]

I didn't see the game so, this comment is just regarding your post.  I just wanted to point out that MH dropped back 47 times, if Holmes made two mistakes that is a 95% grade for pass blocking.  That is really good.

Yes 95% would be great. I am just stating the mistakes that I blatantly seen him commit. He very well could of had more missed assignments. I believe all and all the O-Line had a pretty good game including Holmes. By no means am I throwing him under the bus if that is what you mean.

[SDakColts]

you know how it works. An olineman can never get beat or he was horrible. If a cb gives up a couple passes he was horrible. A wr that drops a pass is garbage

I was not calling him horrible. I was just stating that I saw him miss his assignment twice during the game. It isn't a big deal as it happens he actually corrected his mistake later on in the game during the same blitz. I thought he had a relatively good game as did the rest of the O-Line besides run blocking where they struggled. However, I agree with your post though as many posters actually believe that logic.

[dudeski]

I was not calling him horrible. I was just stating that I saw him miss his assignment twice during the game. It isn't a big deal as it happens he actually corrected his mistake later on in the game during the same blitz. I thought he had a relatively good game as did the rest of the O-Line besides run blocking where they struggled. However, I agree with your post though as many posters actually believe that logic.

did you see him screw up the stunts or did you notice it when the announcers pointed it out? Just curious how close you were watching

[SDakColts]

did you see him screw up the stunts or did you notice it when the announcers pointed it out? Just curious how close you were watching

I didn't see it the first time as I was watching Reitz, but after he was beat the 1st time I seen it the next two times as soon as it happened.  He was beat the second time as he double teamed the DT with Mewhort, but never turned his head to locate the stunt until it was too late. The third time of which he seen the stunt, and picked it up relatively well.

[lennymoore24]

Jacksonville has a good run stopping defense. I thought the Oline looked better.  However, I thought that had just as much to do with play calling and Hasslebeck getting the ball out faster.  That was key to Peyton. If you go back and look at when he was hear, the reason why he rarely got sacked was he got rid of the ball so fast.  Didn't matter who was blocking, he did it.  Even Tony Ugoh looked competent most of the time with Manning at QB.

[Malakai432]

Wasn't there one play where a CB dominated one of the Colts OL????  I remember them talking about it but I can't remember quite what play it was.

[Archer]

Y'now, I've been listening to a lot of ESPN radio the last few Sundays, as I've been driving long distance.  And I really think that there's a lot of lazy analysis feeding the belief that the Colts' OL is the worst in football.  The "analysis" always follows the following formula: Luck is hit more than any other QB (true stat quoted), and the OL is so bad it's gotten him hurt.  Watching the games, it looks like a pretty average OL to me.  The reason Luck gets hit so often is A: he takes a lot of 5- and 7-step drops and holds the ball a long-time as he looks for someone to come open down the field (and he has a huge marginal propensity to take the hit in order to give his receivers another split second to get open), and B: the first three oppenents just seemed to blitz the heck out of us.  Since Luck wasn't right (we can say he was hurt in the Tenn. game, but he's looked "not right" all year), opponents have just continued to blitz a ton with the notion that until Luck makes them pay for blitzing, why would they stop?  And Luck has been unable to hit passes when being blitzed, despite the fact that the blitz pretty much always opens up receivers somewhere by definition.  But all we hear out of announcers and "analysts" is that the Colts' OL is terrible.   It's starting to make me chuckle...

[Lawrence Owen]

Good on pass protection, horrible run blocking in the first half but they improved on that in the 2nd half. 

Jags had  8 in the box nearly the entire game.  They were daring MH to beat them.

 

I didn't see the game so, this comment is just regarding your post.  I just wanted to point out that MH dropped back 47 times, if Holmes made two mistakes that is a 95% grade for pass blocking.  That is really good.

47 drop backs Because of MH's quick short passes means more plays,...meaning more attempts.

[Malakai432]

Y'now, I've been listening to a lot of ESPN radio the last few Sundays, as I've been driving long distance.  And I really think that there's a lot of lazy analysis feeding the belief that the Colts' OL is the worst in football.  The "analysis" always follows the following formula: Luck is hit more than any other QB (true stat quoted), and the OL is so bad it's gotten him hurt.  Watching the games, it looks like a pretty average OL to me.  The reason Luck gets hit so often is A: he takes a lot of 5- and 7-step drops and holds the ball a long-time as he looks for someone to come open down the field (and he has a huge marginal propensity to take the hit in order to give his receivers another split second to get open), and B: the first three oppenents just seemed to blitz the heck out of us.  Since Luck wasn't right (we can say he was hurt in the Tenn. game, but he's looked "not right" all year), opponents have just continued to blitz a ton with the notion that until Luck makes them pay for blitzing, why would they stop?  And Luck has been unable to hit passes when being blitzed, despite the fact that the blitz pretty much always opens up receivers somewhere by definition.  But all we hear out of announcers and "analysts" is that the Colts' OL is terrible.   It's starting to make me chuckle...

 

The Jags D had three sacks and forced two turnovers against the Colts offense.  The O looked pretty bad as a unit, including the OL.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

The Jags D had three sacks and forced two turnovers against the Colts offense.  The O looked pretty bad as a unit, including the OL.  

They actually did look bad for over half the game but the short passing game was decent. The Jags didn't respect Hass's long ball, if Andrew is there they would've had too.

[HungarianColtsFan]

Stop saying that, they have a solid defense. Just Matt was better. Luck would've got killed. He holds the ball too long & Pep insists on making him go back to the Arians days throwing 50 yard passes

Where was that WR reverse at? It was a whole new playbook today. Luck needs that offense that Matt had today, Pep out here sabotaging Luck

 

 

 

IMO it was the same playbook that had been against Titans in Q4. We saw what Luck can do with that playcalling.

[will426]

Idk if anyone notices but pep really opens the playbook up in the 4th qtr only..idk how many games we go into the 1st-3rd qtrs where the offense is basic..now in the 4th qtr we see a variety of plays and odd formations that open us up to succeed..I'm trying to understand what the hell pep is doing showing that he has the talent but refuses to show it until the last minute to look good?? Idfk but it's so annoying

[Deano1818]

Improved pass blocking, but we continue to massively suck on run blocking

 

Mewhort is 1/2 a player at Guard

 

He pass blocks very well........  He STINKS with moving the pile

 

Keep him at LG......  we will continue to have problems running that way

[krunk]

Improved pass blocking, but we continue to massively suck on run blocking

Mewhort is 1/2 a player at Guard

He pass blocks very well........ He STINKS with moving the pile

Keep him at LG...... we will continue to have problems running that way

This is the first game this year where the run blocking was off and I'm not sure I would say that. The jags played their assignments well. Jags came into this game with a top 5 run defense I believe. Their front isn't bad and they tackled well. It happens. We will get back on track against Houston.

[krunk]

I see Pep starting to bring in more of the short passing game and that's good. We could make this thing lethal if he would just add in more play action passing. God I am just waiting on Pep to wake up and see we have to have it! Pistol, Shotgun, Under center we have got to increase our use of play action. Kevin Bowen if you are reading this post please ask Pep why we are not a big play action team?

[krunk]

 

39m

Kevin Bowen @KBowenColts

Per @PFF, Matt Hasselbeck was pressured on just 10 of his 50 drop backs on Sunday. Nice afternoon in pass protection for that unit.

[Coffeedrinker]

 

 

39m

Kevin Bowen @KBowenColts

Per @PFF, Matt Hasselbeck was pressured on just 10 of his 50 drop backs on Sunday. Nice afternoon in pass protection for that unit.

 

Come on Krunk, don't you know that is not possible.  The oline is horrible, the worst oline that has ever been part of an nfl team

[Coffeedrinker]

Jags had  8 in the box nearly the entire game.  They were daring MH to beat them.

 

47 drop backs Because of MH's quick short passes means more plays,...meaning more attempts.

That is true, I'm not sure though what that has to do with my post though.

[krunk]

Come on Krunk, don't you know that is not possible.  The oline is horrible, the worst oline that has ever been part of an nfl team

 

 

Ha Ha!  Like I've been saying, Gavins been saying, you've been saying, Supermans been saying the interior guys we have just put in place are not bad players.  They are young and need more playing time together. Also we need to scheme things better in the passing game with more high percentage throws.  When this team respects this and adheres to it we will continue to see more improvement going forward barring any devastating injuries. Injuries that force us to put Louis and Herremans back in!  Reitz isn't that bad on the outside either.

[Smash Mouth]

This is the first game this year where the run blocking was off and I'm not sure I would say that. The jags played their assignments well. Jags came into this game with a top 5 run defense I believe. Their front isn't bad and they tackled well. It happens. We will get back on track against Houston.

Not only do the Jags play run defense pretty well, their CBs are pretty good in press coverage.  Moncrief and TY had trouble separating from them on the outside.  Putting 8 men in the box is only effective if you can't beat their CBs. Their LBs filled gaps really well too.  While the play calling was better, Pep is still too predictable.

[Smash Mouth]

Ha Ha!  Like I've been saying, Gavins been saying, you've been saying, Supermans been saying the interior guys we have just put in place are not bad players.  They are young and need more playing time together. Also we need to scheme things better in the passing game with more high percentage throws.  When this team respects this and adheres to it we will continue to see more improvement going forward barring any devastating injuries. Injuries that force us to put Louis and Herremans back in!  Reitz isn't that bad on the outside either.

Couple all this with using the TEs in the middle of the field.  I think Pep fell in love with the WRs and thought they could get big play at anytime.

[krunk]

Not only do the Jags play run defense pretty well, their CBs are pretty good in press coverage.  Moncrief and TY had trouble separating from them on the outside.  Putting 8 men in the box is only effective if you can't beat their CBs. Their LBs filled gaps really well too.  While the play calling was better, Pep is still too predictable.

 

Yeah they are improving in the secondary, but I have to say this.  Sure we have guys that can beat you on the deep ball, but we also have to realize that when the deep ball is being contested pretty well we also have guys in Dorsett, Moncrief(especially Moncrief), T.Y. even Coby who can beat you/burn you on the high percentage run after the catch type throws.  We need to make the necessary adjustments when we see the deep ball isn't working that well and start peppering them with the high percentage stuff.  As we are doing that we can work our way back deep.  Our receivers are not one trick ponies, they can play the deep game and the short game.   When we get to this point this offense is going to be humming buddy!

 

The talent in the NFL is just too good for us to think we have this guy that can run 4.2, that guy who can run 4.3, and this guy who can run 4.3 so we can just sit back and throw 9 routes all day and its going to be a touch down fest.  No this is a game of adjustments and they must be made to win.  It just can be done on talent alone!

 

I'll give credit to the Jags for their run defense but I'm still confident there were some things scheme wise we could have done to service the running game better.  I can't complain about Pep in regard to the overall attempts to run however, he did try.

[lollygagger8]

It was better because Hasselbeck got the ball out A LOT quicker than Luck does. 

 

I still go out of my mind when we keep throwing 20+ yards passes on 3rd and short!!! 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

The o-line actually looked like they were somewhat starting to gel a bit. And the playcalling, from the very first snap yesterday, was so much better. It allowed MH to get the ball out quickly, and into the hands of our speedy receivers. That drag route that Fleener was running and getting open every single time was a nice touch as well. My hope is that they utilize an identical game plan when Luck returns.

 

Just need to eliminate drops and fumbles (talking to you Frank Gore and Josh Robinson)...

[ProblChld32]

I thought the Oline played decent,

[A.LuckSquad]

All this talk good, or bad about our O-Line is great and all, but heres the thing we all have to realize.. We will not get better until we upgrade pieces on the line! Something that seems unlikely given how Grigson "GM's" things around here. 

[Deano1818]

I have to say that Reitz looked well as a RT

 

(I would still rather have him at LG)

[Superman]

Hard to tell if they played better, the Jags are just that bad or Matt just got ride of the ball a lot quicker than Luck was doing.

Matt got rid of the ball more quickly, and did so far more often than Luck.

But the Jags have a pretty decent front.

[Superman]

All this talk good, or bad about our O-Line is great and all, but heres the thing we all have to realize.. We will not get better until we upgrade pieces on the line! Something that seems unlikely given how Grigson "GM's" things around here.

And as you say that, the OL is getting better by the week...

[Superman]

I didn't see the game so, this comment is just regarding your post. I just wanted to point out that MH dropped back 47 times, if Holmes made two mistakes that is a 95% grade for pass blocking. That is really good.

He had a few more misses and defeats. The stunts were pretty bad, and on one of them Holmes had no idea it was happening or had happened. Part of it is that it was a really good design by the Jags. And they got it figured out eventually.

[Coffeedrinker]

He had a few more misses and defeats. The stunts were pretty bad, and on one of them Holmes had no idea it was happening or had happened. Part of it is that it was a really good design by the Jags. And they got it figured out eventually.

I figured he did.  I like Holmes and I think he is developing into a really good center.  Even with that, I don't think he's a center to grade out at 95% yet.

[Lawrence Owen]

That is true, I'm not sure though what that has to do with my post though.

Sorry, i saw the 47 drop back mention in an earlier post that was complaining he threw to much.  when i went back to quote the post and respond to it, i guess i clicked yours instead seeing the '47' mention.

 

But yeah, Holmes did well, the only real bad mistake was when the DT pulled right and the DE swept in on a curl, by then holmes had already engaged and did not recognize the stunt.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

After watching Seattle and Detroit's offensive lines last night, I'm finished complaining about how bad the Colts unit is for the remainder of the season.

[Smash Mouth]

After watching Seattle and Detroit's offensive lines last night, I'm finished complaining about how bad the Colts unit is for the remainder of the season.

Mark Schlereth screamed that there is a epidemic  of bad OL play in the NFL.  It seems that he's right - good OLs really stand out. I'm finally coming around to the fact that our OL is average and that might be good enough.  The OC has to scheme and play call to keep the offense moving.  Or you need a resourceful QB.

 

Seattle better be careful - Russell Wilson takes a lot of hits now.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Mark Schlereth screamed that there is a epidemic  of bad OL play in the NFL.  It seems that he's right - good OLs really stand out. I'm finally coming around to the fact that our OL is average and that might be good enough.  The OC has to scheme and play call to keep the offense moving.  Or you need a resourceful QB.

 

Seattle better be careful - Russell Wilson takes a lot of hits now.

 

Wilson was running for his life A LOT last night. Granted he was able to make some pretty sweet plays once coverage broke down, I don't think that's a very sustainable way to go about running an offense.

[indyagent17]

This is simply untrue. The Jags have a pretty good line. Better than the Tennessee line we saw last week and struggled against.

They looked better as a whole today. We were still giving up a lot of ground on the right tackle side, but we weren't getting beaten a whole lot over there.

Run blocking was abysmal, but the pass protection was better.

But we are still way too weak against blitzes up the middle.

Jacksonville has been loading up on defensive players in the draft for years so their defense is not that bad. It was a pretty good test especially for a backup quarterback. We were very fortunate but a win is a win

[DougDew]

Y'now, I've been listening to a lot of ESPN radio the last few Sundays, as I've been driving long distance.  And I really think that there's a lot of lazy analysis feeding the belief that the Colts' OL is the worst in football.  The "analysis" always follows the following formula: Luck is hit more than any other QB (true stat quoted), and the OL is so bad it's gotten him hurt.  Watching the games, it looks like a pretty average OL to me.  The reason Luck gets hit so often is A: he takes a lot of 5- and 7-step drops and holds the ball a long-time as he looks for someone to come open down the field (and he has a huge marginal propensity to take the hit in order to give his receivers another split second to get open), and B: the first three oppenents just seemed to blitz the heck out of us.  Since Luck wasn't right (we can say he was hurt in the Tenn. game, but he's looked "not right" all year), opponents have just continued to blitz a ton with the notion that until Luck makes them pay for blitzing, why would they stop?  And Luck has been unable to hit passes when being blitzed, despite the fact that the blitz pretty much always opens up receivers somewhere by definition.  But all we hear out of announcers and "analysts" is that the Colts' OL is terrible.   It's starting to make me chuckle...

Your post concisely addresses and sums up many different aspects of the oline/offense's situation through the first three games of the season...as well as media/analysis coverage.

One of the better posts on this forum so far this season.