Minnesota (+7) @ Denver (10-4-15)

[Moose Of Woe]

I didn't say the offense was bad. But yes, they are a shell of the record setting behemoth they used to be. Obviously they moved on from JT and Wes at the right time along with Moreno.  They lost Decker too who was less important than any of them, but still a good receiver. They've only had one good player to replace those 4 on offense, and that's Sanders. Lost four good players, gained one and the QB has regressed.

I don't think I've ever said Welker, Moreno, and Julius Thomas were overrated. I think Welker is the best slot receiver to ever play (in his prime). I think Julius and Moreno were injury prone, but good players. Decker yeah I  think was overrated as in not AMAZING but still a good receiver. He had unfortunate drops at times along with tripping over invisible trip wires.

[amfootball]

am.

Denver is in press coverage...as a QB, you have to hope the line holds...

Teddy cant throw to guys who haven't come open yet

and again.,.the TDs are ordinary and the picks are dreadful...They've said that about Peyton for years.

The last drive won the game....if we're being honest

The line did hold. He had time. This is the top defense. He needed to get rid of it if no one was open. You can't take a sack and then get stripped sacked.

 

On the last drive Peyton hit two throws total and missed the last one to DT badly that would have been a TD. His regression has been stark this season. Denver is the only undefeated team that is solely there because of its defensive play. It is what it is.

[oldunclemark]

I don't think I've ever said Welker, Moreno, and Julius Thomas were overrated. I think Welker is the best slot receiver to ever play (in his prime). I think Julius and Moreno were injury prone, but good players. Decker yeah I  think was overrated as in not AMAZING but still a good receiver. He had unfortunate drops at times along with tripping over invisible trip wires.

moose..Oh yes...you really did..you said Welker was a shell of what he was in NE

..Moreno fumbled to much for you..

Decker was created by Manning and Julius Thomas, in your words, was never on the field...

You may have been right about some of it......but you certainly said it

Denver's struggles have nothing to do with those 4 players.

Its the O-line..another first time starter today. They cant run it, as you also said..

Peyton has to get what he can..knowing the 'D' doesn't respect the run.

He managed this one..but he won...whats the downside of 4-0?

[chad72]

am.

Denver is in press coverage...as a QB, you have to hope the line holds...

Teddy cant throw to guys who haven't come open yet

and again.,.the TDs are ordinary and the picks are dreadful...They've said that about Peyton for years.

The last drive won the game....if we're being honest

Yeah, but it wouldn't have come down to the last drive if not for Peyton's untimely picks.

You can shake the Peyton Pom Pom all you want and I've defended him when the situation was right. This is definitely NOT one of those, I'm sorry I'm not that blind while being objective about Peyton's play this game.

[oldunclemark]

The line did hold. He had time. This is the top defense. He needed to get rid of it if no one was open. You can't take a sack and then get stripped sacked.

 

On the last drive Peyton hit two throws total and missed the last one to DT badly that would have been a TD. His regression has been stark this season. Denver is the only undefeated team that is solely there because of its defensive play. It is what it is.

Wrong....game winning srive today..game tying drive ve. KC.

Cant change what is.

But then I thought...Teddy was hurried..I didn't see the Viking O-line holding..Just watched the final drive again.

Peyton's throw to DT was a good defensive play..and how many completions did he need.? 'Only 2" Right . 2 for how many yards???

Give him credit for taking the ball late in the 4th Q and for the 3rd time in 3 games...leading his boys down the field for a big score..cant take that away from him..or them

[oldunclemark]

Yeah, but it wouldn't have come down to the last drive if not for Peyton's untimely picks.

You can shake the Peyton Pom Pom all you want and I've defended him when the situation was right. This is definitely NOT one of those, I'm sorry I'm not that blind while being objective about Peyton's play this game.

When a team is 4-0 and the QB has led his team to a big late TD 3 times in four games, you cant be blind to what actually happened late.

That's when we judge QBs...late in close games.

[NFLfan]

Your team is for real !

Can't wait to see them play packers.

Thank you. The Vikes did not win but they did not embarass themselves on the road in a difficult place to play. I was worried about how Teddy would handle the pass rush of Denver given how bad our O-line is. I am relieved he did not get hurt. I am proud of the team for making this a game, tying it after being down double digit points. This is a young team (except Newman and AP). Teddy is only 22.

It would have been nice go into the bye week with a win but they will be okay. They play the Chiefs at Minnesota in 2 weeks. They should win that game.

[chad72]

When a team is 4-0 and the QB has led his team to a big late TD 3 times in four games, you cant be blind to what actually happened late.

That's when we judge QBs...late in close games.

A lot of Peyton's games wouldn't be needing a 4th qtr comeback if he didn't dig a hole with his untimely turnovers. Look at that 4th and 2 game, look at the AFCCG, how did those 17 pt and 18 point deficits happen, go ahead and look up Peyton's turnovers in those 2 games he is memorable for, which put the D in difficult spots with field position.

It was not all the D that gave that field position. I was blind to see it as a Colts fan because he was my QB. I'm not as blind anymore.

[BloodyChamp]

Peyton fans are trying way to hard this week...let it go.

[Jules]

Luck and Hasselbeck are licking their chops to play Denver!!!!

[chad72]

Peyton fans are trying way to hard this week...let it go.

No kidding.

[NFLfan]

Great to see Teddy B talking to manning for more than just a moment after the game..

...Vikes wont play Denver again until after Peyton retires.. I think he knows that Bridgewater...has talked about modeling his game after manning...

Teddy is a really good, respectful guy. He appreciates the history of the game and those who came before him. I am happy to have him represent my team.

[chad72]

Luck and Hasselbeck are licking their chops to play Denver!!!!

If there's a saving grace right now, it's that Denver D and pass rush. But if Peyton gift wraps 10 points off turnovers, that D will be gassed towards the end with time of possession in the opponent's favor just like we saw in the Vikings game.

[Jules]

If there's a saving grace right now, it's that Denver D and pass rush. But if Peyton gift wraps 10 points off turnovers, that D will be gassed towards the end with time of possession in the opponent's favor just like we saw in the Vikings game.

 

Vonate always has an excellent EXCELLENT game vs. Denver.

[chad72]

Vonate always has an excellent EXCELLENT game vs. Denver.

He has vs Demaryius Thomas. However, if our secondary with Toler does not get healthy, our zones will not be effective, that's the key.

[Jules]

He has vs Demaryius Thomas. However, if our secondary with Toler does not get healthy, our zones will not be effective, that's the key.

 

I don't know. I can't really worry about Denver right now and won't.

 

We often have had Denver's number too.

[oldunclemark]

Teddy is a really good, respectful guy. He appreciates the history of the game and those who came before him. I am happy to have him represent my team.

I like it that Peyton stood and spoke with him...knowing he models his game after him..

Their paths wont cross again on the field...

..and I think they both know that

[chad72]

I don't know. I can't really worry about Denver right now and won't.

We often have had Denver's number too.

Yeah, I'm worried about the Pats putting 40 or 50 on us.

[oldunclemark]

When you look down the road....both Denver (4-0) and Green Bay (4-0) have two winnable games (Denver is on the road at Oakland next) and a bye before they meet on a Sunday night..

..when the talking TV heads realize that they hype will begin.

[oldunclemark]

A lot of Peyton's games wouldn't be needing a 4th qtr comeback if he didn't dig a hole with his untimely turnovers. Look at that 4th and 2 game, look at the AFCCG, how did those 17 pt and 18 point deficits happen, go ahead and look up Peyton's turnovers in those 2 games he is memorable for, which put the D in difficult spots with field position.

It was not all the D that gave that field position. I was blind to see it as a Colts fan because he was my QB. I'm not as blind anymore.

Interesting way to look at it..

The QB who leads the final decisive drive should be discredited because he didnt lead all the way or lost the lead...which negates his positive late plays. That's a standard only Manning seems to be held to..

Its been that way for a few years now

[chad72]

Interesting way to look at it..

The QB who leads the final decisive drive should be discredited because he didnt lead all the way or lost the lead...which negates his positive late plays. That's a standard only Manning seems to be held to..

Its been that way for a few years now

Whatever OUM, it's like the Yankees believing in the curse of the Bambino vs the Red Sox, wait for it, wait for it, the Red Sox will make a mistake. Pedro is pitching lights out and they pull him and the Yankees comeback happened in one AL championship game, I remember. Yankees go on to the World Series then.

The same thing with Peyton, keep the game close, keep the game close, wait for it and the Peyton turnover will happen. I'm a firm believer of that now.

He's a great guy, class act on and off the field but he turns the ball over at inopportune times, that's just how it is. He lets teams hang around because of his turnovers. Brady, on the other hand, makes you earn it by going the distance of the field. There in lies the difference in their playoff record and now those turnovers are creeping more and more into the regular season too.

[oldunclemark]

I don't think you can judge anyone by what they did in the past...

His team is 4-0 and he's taken that team down the field when they needed it....

...it doesn't matter what kind of guy he is....I'm just talking results...bottom line.

we judge QBs by wins and what they do late in close games, right?

..When he threw for 5500 yards. he was all about stats...when Denver loses...it is his fault. OK.

I'm just saying that anyone else..at 4-0 and with 3 decisive late drives..would be praised as a winner..

Its Okay to judge Peyton by the same standards as other QBs are judged

[chad72]

I don't think you can judge anyone by what they did in the past...

His team is 4-0 and he's taken that team down the field when they needed it....

...it doesn't matter what kind of guy he is....I'm just talking results...bottom line.

we judge QBs by wins and what they do late in close games, right?

..When he threw for 5500 yards. he was all about stats...when Denver loses...it is his fault. OK.

I'm just saying that anyone else..at 4-0 and with 3 decisive late drives..would be praised as a winner..

Its Okay to judge Peyton by the same standards as other QBs are judged

 

Wins, yes. He has been a winner and is still a winner, no doubt about that.

 

But the way the deficit was dug when they have the #1 D in the league does matter and Peyton's turnovers are being magnified because of that. It used to be "well, Peyton did not have an aggressive D that got him the ball back" but now, even if they give him the ball back, he doesn't do much with it (he is past his prime, hands down) and every now and then, he even shoots himself in the foot. Pick six in the Ravens game at home in a low scoring 19-13 game, pick six in the Chiefs game, and 10 pts off 2 INTs in this game, I am judging Peyton by the same standards I judge other QBs. No matter which QB it is, if you are gift wrapping the other team consistently 7-10 pts off turnovers, that is not a good thing, whether it is Brady, Eli, Rodgers, Romo whoever it is. I am just as hard on Luck for it. Yes, he makes up for it by making a comeback but you can't tell me with a straight face that he is not costing his team precious points during the game. He'd be owning it far quicker than his fans here are, I can bet on that.

 

His team is winning and he is holding them back and putting them in difficult spots with his turnovers consistently in most games, hands down. His team would be winning by bigger margins if not for him. Yes, they don't hand out style points in the NFL but one would have to be blind to not see he is costing his team points with turnovers.

[Gramz]

4-0

[jjcolts]

Peyton fans are trying way to hard this week...let it go.

What does this even mean? 

 

Shall Peyton fans be down and out that his team won?

[BloodyChamp]

You know exactly what it means.

[jjcolts]

I will always be a Peyton fan, I don't feel any guilt rooting for Peyton and do not feel a bit odd that I root for Peyton and Luck at the same time.

 

I didn't feel guilty about the Colts beating Peyton either last year in the playoff...   just a game.. you root for the talent and embody your team.

 

Yes Peyton made this game more difficult than it should have been because of those picks --- I guess the offense could have played prevent offense and just run the ball...  he gets criticized for that too. 

He could have gone for the jugular and put up a gazillion points - oh yeah he would get critized for that too...

 

Fact is, I am in awe that he is still playing the game and doing "enough" to keep winning.  He is not the Peyton that we once watched as a Colt. He is quite lucky to have the defense that he has....   is that his fault too?

 

I shake my head when people on here bash Luck - all those years we have screamed this is a team game....  yet we expect Luck to carry the team, doing too much to win, that he fumbles, gets sacked., etc.

 

Did you all see Kaepernick today.....  his defense held the Packers to 17 points.... they could have won that game, if kaep had any QB smarts.... my goodness.

[jjcolts]

You know exactly what it means.

I actually wasn't being sarcastic - not my style...  I really don't know what you mean. Perhaps I missed a part of a conversation?

[jjcolts]

I know Frank Gore can run...if they'd block better

I don't remember Frank Gore having red zone fumble problems while in SF - I am just shocked that he has done this twice...  ugh.

[BloodyChamp]

See ^^^^^^^

So much damage control, this guy's fault, not my guy's fault, if this, but that etc. Trying to hard...let it gooooooooo.

[oldunclemark]

Chad. I dont think Peyton is holding them back...and why is it when he throw s a TD and then throws an interception, he's costing

the points.. but when he throws TDs...like the 4th-and-1 at the goal line...that's a team score.

I just think its a double standard..

..al QBs throw interceptions..it does not mean THEY are costing their team points..right?

[oldunclemark]

I don't remember Frank Gore having red zone fumble problems while in SF - I am just shocked that he has done this twice...  ugh.

I'm a little hocked by it...We all watched SF..Gore was the closer..He finished games..with hard runs late.

I've got to believe he';s trying too hard with a new team

[oldunclemark]

I'm shocked by it, too

[Moose Of Woe]

moose..Oh yes...you really did..you said Welker was a shell of what he was in NE

..Moreno fumbled to much for you..

Decker was created by Manning and Julius Thomas, in your words, was never on the field...

He managed this one..but he won...whats the downside of 4-0?

Compared to NE when he was in his prime? Yes Welker was a shell of what he was. Especially during his last season when he kept getting concussed. I'm talking about his first two seasons in Denver when he was still a good asset. He dropped off considerably his last season there.

 

Moreno I had more of an issue with the injuries, but he played and ran HARD. Montee "can't hold on to" the BALL was the one I never much cared for because he fumbled all the time.

 

Decker was a decent receiver. Nothing more.

 

Orange Julius WAS injured all the time, but was an asset when he played.

 

Losing all of those guys, yes, hurt the offense. Given the records they were setting compared to now I  don't think it's reasonable for anyone to think otherwise. They're still decent, but need to improve. The downside of 4-0 is that it is meaningless in the playoffs when you go against the best teams in the league. From the AFC, that means CIN and especially NE.

 

The good news for DEN is that, while they're lopsided, at least it's in the best possible direction skewed toward defense which is the most important facet of a team. The special teams are good and the offense just needs to be respectable. It's not quite there, but close.

 

NE, on the flip side, has a buzzsaw offense and a decent to good defense with special teams just as good as Denver. They're more balanced, and so is CIN. Although I'd take DEN over CIN by virtue of QB.  NE is a totally different beast.

 

NE also has the best coach in NFL history. Defensively, Wade is a hell of an upgrade from Del Rio so at least that gap has been narrowed. Offensively, Kubiak prefers to run first, but failed to field a line/backs that can actually do it. So, bust there but PM is an offensive coordinator so it doesn't matter.

[chad72]

Chad. I dont think Peyton is holding them back...and why is it when he throw s a TD and then throws an interception, he's costing

the points.. but when he throws TDs...like the 4th-and-1 at the goal line...that's a team score.

I just think its a double standard..

..al QBs throw interceptions..it does not mean THEY are costing their team points..right?

 

It is not a double standard. Here, look up the QBs in this season when it comes to INTs.

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS

 

 

Matt Ryan and even Cam Newton have thrown much less INTs than him, there is a reason why their teams are winning too. Why should he get a pass because his team is winning? All QBs that throw INTs DO cost points, it is not something new you are hearing. Maybe you are listening to it now because it is happening in the context of Peyton.    It is up to 6 TDs and 5 INTs now, far higher than his 2+ TD to INT ratio of his entire career. 

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick is winning the same way by throwing INTs and riding his defense but should we lower our expectations of Peyton to what we expect from Ryan Fitzpatrick? 

[Jules]

Yeah, I'm worried about the Pats putting 40 or 50 on us.

 

I actually worry more about putting up enough points at times vs. NE then holding them. 

 

We need to sustain drives and stay on the field a lot.

[oldunclemark]

Compared to NE when he was in his prime? Yes Welker was a shell of what he was. Especially during his last season when he kept getting concussed. I'm talking about his first two seasons in Denver when he was still a good asset. He dropped off considerably his last season there.

 

Moreno I had more of an issue with the injuries, but he played and ran HARD. Montee "can't hold on to" the BALL was the one I never much cared for because he fumbled all the time.

 

Decker was a decent receiver. Nothing more.

 

Orange Julius WAS injured all the time, but was an asset when he played.

Losing all of those guys, yes, hurt the offense. Given the records they were setting compared to now I  don't think it's reasonable for anyone to think otherwise. They're still decent, but need to improve. The downside of 4-0 is that it is meaningless in the playoffs when you go against the best teams in the league. From the AFC, that means CIN and especially NE.

 

The good news for DEN is that, while they're lopsided, at least it's in the best possible direction skewed toward defense which is the most important facet of a team. The special teams are good and the offense just needs to be respectable. It's not quite there, but close.

 

NE, on the flip side, has a buzzsaw offense and a decent to good defense with special teams just as good as Denver. They're more balanced, and so is CIN. Although I'd take DEN over CIN by virtue of QB.  NE is a totally different beast.

Losing O-linemen changed them, more so than anything else. They haven't lost any offensive skill players they couldn't afford to lose.

[Moose Of Woe]

Losing O-linemen changed them, more so than anything else. They haven't lost any offensive skill players they couldn't afford to lose.

Moreno was the biggest loss. By far.

 

There really hasn't been a "next man up" since him. He ran hard and broke tackles...something rarely seen from the current backs. It was evident last year, too. Sure the line blocked better when he was around but he, himself, was just a much better back than Ball, Anderson, etc. Was he Adrian Peterson? No but he was still a decent back who could, at times, make something out of nothing.

[oldunclemark]

It is not a double standard. Here, look up the QBs in this season when it comes to INTs.

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS

 

 

Matt Ryan and even Cam Newton have thrown much less INTs than him, there is a reason why their teams are winning too. Why should he get a pass because his team is winning? All QBs that throw INTs DO cost points, it is not something new you are hearing. Maybe you are listening to it now because it is happening in the context of Peyton.    It is up to 6 TDs and 5 INTs now, far higher than his 2+ TD to INT ratio of his entire career. 

We've talked about this before..

I think that interceptions are overrated .....[passing QBs throw interceptions unless you are Alex Smith and you don't throw the ball down the field...or Aaron Rodgers ..who is more accurate than anyone else...

Interceptions are collateral damage if you want a passing offense that wins.

It seems to me when Peyton wins and throws interceptions, the picks are the story.

When he throws TDs and loses..the loss is the story.

Right?

That is simply not the way other QBs are judged

[oldunclemark]

Moreno was the biggest loss. By far.

 

There really hasn't been a "next man up" since him. He ran hard and broke tackles...something rarely seen from the current backs. It was evident last year, too.

Oh no,....Anderson was as good late last year as Moreno was.

The O-line has changed...

...and I think there's a chance they'll get that together as the season progresses.

Peyton doenst have much time and CJ does not have room to run...but, to me, its not their fault